[Coco] CoCo 1/2 arrow keys versus CoCo 3 arrow keys

[Robert Emery]

"Can someone clarify why having all the cursor keys in one place made
games harder to play?  Most PC games use the "inverted T""

If only Tandy had given us an inverted T instead of the diamond layout that
is ridiculously awkward to play games with.
You answered your own question.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 5:36 PM RETRO Innovations via Coco <
coco at maltedmedia.com> wrote:

> On 1/11/2023 11:34 AM, Allen Huffman via Coco wrote:
> > My first computer was a Commodore VIC-20. The Commodores used a werid
> cursor key setup, with two keys at the lower right of the keyboard. One was
> up/down (when shifted) and the other was left/right (when shifted). This
> was odd, but they were side by side and it was easy to have one hand on
> shift, and the other on the two cursor keys and move around — once you got
> used to it.
> Not to sound heretical given the list topic, but I can "fly" with the
> CBM cursor key setup.
> >
> > When I saw the TRS-80 keyboards with left and right keys on the left
> side, and up and down keys on the right, that looks better. But they didn’t
> do anything (except backspace for left).
> That is probably my single greatest usability grip with the CoCo.  I
> realize that many on this list have never enjoyed it and so don't miss
> it, but the lack of cursor based navigation on the screen for editing
> BASIC programs on the CoCo is just infuriating.
> > When the CoCo 3 came out, they moved all cursor keys together on the
> right side. That looks great, but it was the end of me being able to play
> games using keyboard on the CoCo. It was just too awkward.
> Can someone clarify why having all the cursor keys in one place made
> games harder to play?  Most PC games use the "inverted T", many early
> home computer games used WASD and such.  I am honestly confused how
> putting one axis on one side of the KB and the other axis on the
> opposite side (forcing the player to use both hands, and killing the
> enjoyment for someone with a handicap in one hand due to illness or
> stroke) is of benefit other than muscle memory for those who started
> with the CoCo1/2.
> >
> > Yes, later systems (PCs, etc.) gave us cursors on the right side, though
> the arrangement ended up having LEFT/DOWN/RIGHT side by side, with UP above
> the down. This seemed easier to use than the CoCo 3.
> I'll have the contrary view here, but I think cursor keys need to be on
> the lowest rows, so the CC3 nav was not optimal. I'd have preferred
> F1/F2 be where CLEAR/Up is, CLEAR as it was before, with the inverted T
> next to and below SHIFT.  To be fair, they may have attempted that, but
> centering down under Up would have pushed Right over too far, so they
> had to move the entire thing up a row.  Or, the inverted T was not known
> enough (even though WASD was already popular) to consider, and putting
> keys on three rows really mandates the current placement
> >
> > Which did you prefer? CoCo 1/2, CoCo 3? And do you like modern PC/Mac
> cursor key arrangements?
>
> Since I believe nav should be as close to the "rest" bottom row, the
> inverted "T" is my preference. But, I'd take the CBM nav system over the
> CC3, even if the editors were the same.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
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