[Coco] Look what Daniel got his scrubby dirty hands on.

[billg999 at cs.uofs.edu]

> On Sunday 23 February 2014 15:10:25 billg999 at cs.uofs.edu did opine:
>
>> > On Sunday 23 February 2014 10:32:22 billg999 at cs.uofs.edu did opine:
>> >> > On Sunday 23 February 2014 09:39:15 Juan Castro did opine:
>> >> >> Some googling told me this is a ham radio interface, and another
>> >> >> guy on
>> >>
>> >> the list, Alexandre Souza, informed us that's a Brazilian clone of
>> >> the original Kantronics board. (Heh, they didn't even bother to
>> >> translate the messages.)
>> >>
>> >> >> https://plus.google.com/photos/+DanielCampos/albums/59835770709922
>> >> >> 728 17
>> >>
>> >> I know nothing of ham radio. How is this supposed to plug into the
>> >> radio? Is something like a modem needed in addition to that?
>> >>
>> >> The cable you see coming off one corner would connect to a ham
>> >> transciever.
>> >>
>> >> > Note, neither hand here is any where near a bible so I'm not
>> >> > swearing to
>> >>
>> >> anything..
>> >>
>> >> > I believe that is an interface for sending and receiving morse
>> >> > code,
>> >>
>> >> Much more than CW.  Does RTTY (5 level BAUDOT) ASCII (7 level), AMTOR
>> >> (all the common modes, including FEC which was (is?) used for
>> >> broadcast messages.)
>> >>
>> >>  although it could probably be re-programmed to work with a full 8
>> >>  bit
>> >>
>> >> wide
>> >>
>> >> > data path.
>> >>
>> >> Not sure what that means.  It does ASCII.
>> >
>> > ASCII is usually 7 bits wide, but a full byte, 8 bits, would let to do
>> > a VT-220 emulation where the esc codes are all 128 decimal and above.
>>
>> Well, the interface (and what hams send) does 8-bit, but the charset
>> is still just 7-bit.  What woiuld a ham do with a VT-220 emulation?
>> This is not a modem for connecting to a remote computer, it's a device
>> that l;et's two guys talk to each other.  And sometimes, even xfer a
>> file or two (but very seldom as the media tends to be rather unreliable
>> for lengthy messages.)
>
> However, since it is a two way medium,

It is almost never a "two way medium".  Packet radio did that but
things lime RTTY, CW or AMTOR are one guy at a time.  :-)  And,
when your talking HF it is noisy and the chances of getting a 256
byte packet thru without numerous errors is very slim.  But then,
that was why packet radio was developed.  Even at VHF where your
distance is limited it is not only still primarily one voice at a
time but you are also often sharing the channel.  Packet radio
takes care of that, too. CSMA/CA.

>                                         multiplexing the modes, I see
> absolutely zero reason that a file transfer protocol such as zmodem, (our
> rzsz-3.36) sending and receiving in 256 byte plus overhead packets, with
> the window locked at 256 bytes, could not be used to move several
> megabytes
> of stuff, an os9/drivewire .dsk would at 720k per, be a piece of cake
> needing only adequate time.  And because its checking a 16 bit crc for
> every 256 byte packet sent, resending it till it gets it right (or gives
> up
> but thats a lot of errors), if the .dsk gets there, you can pretty much
> take it to the bank it is bit accurate at the other end. TCPIP for the
> coco
> IOW when it comes to moving files.

Your confusing modes here.  TCP/IP is used on packet radio.  Not on
anything that the interface in the pictures does.  Also, the baudrates
I mentioned were also for packet radio.

RTTY, AMTOR and ASCII are limited to about 60WPM.  That's 5 letter words.


>
> When I did the VT220 conversion of Brian M's (thanks Brian, that was
> _very_
> well organized code, a true joy to work on) VT100 code, something of an
> emergency at the time, I found it was a piece of cake to insert the
> sending
> and receiving rzsz triggering strings, and the detection of them, for
> fully
> automatic zmodem transmissions of dish waving schedules to/from the
> controller in our 7 meter main CBS rx dish, from the coco3 in my office,
> by
> having a 2400 baud modem dial up the system, this when the VT220 on that
> system died, and DEC wanted about 3.8 grand for a fresh VT550 they would
> not guarantee was 100% compatible to the VT220 it would replace.  Dec got
> hungry, their field techs were helpless when staring at a PDP-11/23a that
> was crashing 4x a day.  I could go on about that another 2-3 paragraphs,
> but its already in the list archives 2 or 3 times already. :-)
>
>> >> >            To send, it replaces the keyer, and to receive, it could
>> >> >            be
>> >>
>> >> listening to the BFO output from the radios speaker circuit.
>> >>
>> >> Hooks up to the KEY jack, the microphone jack and the
>> >> speaker/headphone output.  Ham radio don't real use a BFO as you are
>> >> probably thinking of it.  That was a feature to allow AM type
>> >> receivers to decode CW and Single Side Band (SSB) audio signals.
>
> And this is NOT a keyed CW?

Yes, the interface keys the transmitter onand off just like code key
would.  And the receiver use the tone you would hear in the speaker.
But the receivers aren't made for AM (although some support it) so
what you think of as a BFO is a constantly inserted carrier and it
is non-adjustable. You just tune the receiver until you have the right
tone.  The interface usually has an indicator..

>
>> >> >                                                              One
> thing
>> >>
>> >> is
>> >>
>> >> > certain, its old.
>> >>
>> >> Old is a matter of opinion.  To some of us 1984 really isn't all that
>> >> old. I have a number of these knd of interfaces, but none for the
>> >> COCO.
>> >>
>> >>  But I did have programs that lett the COCO receive CW, RTTY, ASCII,
>> >>
>> >> AMTOR and even Slow Scan TV using the cassette input.
>
> Don't forget WEFAX. :)  I played with that, but found our weather folks
> didn't have the foggiest how to decode that millibar map it printed.

Yeah, I remember doing WEFAX as well. But that was all a long time ago.
I have a more modern Kantronics Interface (but still more than a decade
old) that does all those  modes as well as HF and VHF packet radio and
interfaces thru a serial port so with the right software it works with
any computer.  I haven't used that in longer than I can remember, too.

>
>> >> I also had
>> >> (actually, still have somewhere) a RTTY/CS interface for my TRS-80
>> >> Model III.  Most were eventually replaced by all-in-one units that
>> >> also did Packet Radio and connected tot he computer using a serial
>> >> port.
>> >
>> > Chuckle, old is relative, and 1984 is just last week to me since I'm
>> > working on my 80th year. :)
>> >
>> >> >                   The radio operator of course needs a ham license
>> >> >                   of a
>> >>
>> >> suitable class before you can "press the key" and
>> >> transmit.
>> >>
>> >> There is no radio component in what you saw in the pictures.  One
>> >> needs a totally separet transmitter and receiver to actually use it
>> >> although a non-ham couls hook it to a receiver and at least listen.
>> >> All of those modes are still in use today.
>> >>
>> >> > Relatively famous in its day, I've no clue how useful it could be
>> >> > today
>> >>
>> >> as
>> >>
>> >> > I am not a ham, although some would argue that point :), but a
>> >> > retired
>> >>
>> >> broadcast engineer.
>> >>
>> >> Last I looked, Kantronics was still in business but probably does
>> >> more
>> >
>> > Apparently not in TV broadcast though.  ISTR they may have done some
>> > stuff in cb radio back in the day,
>>
>> Nope, never saw anything in CB as there was nothing they ever made that
>> would have been legal (or of interest) for CBers.  As far as I know they
>> started as a ham supplier and when things like commercial packet radio
>> started taking off they offerec stuff there.  Of course, the amount that
>> hams were willing to pay was much lower than what commercial guys were
>> willing to pay so you can see where the money was.
>
> Obviously. Cheap is in the hams blood from conception.  Got some of that
> blood myself. ;-)

You wouldn't think so looking at the prices in any ham equipment catalog
today.  :-)

>
>> >                              but its been since the 70's that I was
>> >
>> > servicing those, so my familiarity is (out-)dated there too without a
>> > doubt.
>> >
>> > What baud rates does it support?
>>
>> Hams do 300 baud on HF and 1200 and up on VHF, UHF and SHF.
>>
>> Believe it or not, my first Internet connection in my house was over
>> a 1200 baud 145 Mhz half-duplex radio system I designed and built. It
>> was a LOS distance of about 14 miles and I ran TCP/IP over it and got
>> a kick out of listenting to other hams come up with all the reasons
>> why it could never be done!!  :-)  That was in 1988.  Prior to that I
>> ran a digital repeater on top of a mountain in Ellenville, NY that
>> carried traffic from 6 states that I was aware of.
>>
>> And to brng this back to relevancy, those were the days when, like the
>> COCO, computers were actually fun and not just a job.
>>
>> I wish I had a COCO and OS9 back then.  I could have done so much more.
>
> Absolutely Bill, the sky was the limit, provided the sky included the moon
> for moon bounce.

The record for lowest power moon bounce was only possible thru the use
of computer technology.  DSP to be exact!!  The signal was too weak to
detect, but using DSP they were able to detect decreases in the noise
floor of the receiver and decoded that.

bill