[Coco] Emulator - back to the thread's original question

Sun Nov 1 13:56:04 EST 2009

Hi,

I think it would be a mistake to base any project intended for public
use on a single commercial solution, even a "standard" like visual
studio and friends, much more so one from a small company like
BlitzMax.

What happens when they go out of business, or don't feel like fixing a
critical bug, or supporting a new platform?  The coco is a long term
interest for those of us still playing with them, we aren't going to
stop caring if the emulator works in 10, 20 or even 50 years (If I
live that long :).  That is why truly free platforms are preferable.
When you have access to the source for all components of your project,
even if you never need it, you have no worries about these types of
things.  A program written in a standard language with open tools will
always, always be supportable and maintainable.  No commercial system
can make the same claim.

C is a standard language available on practically every system known
to man, with hundreds of compilers from multiple vendors, not to
mention the excellent and free gcc.
C is taught in every CS program I've heard of at least.  Some C
experience is generally considered a prerequisite for any serious
programmer, professional or hobbyist.

How could C possibly be less accessible for the masses than a niche
proprietary language that isn't based on any public standard at all?
I just don't follow your logic.

As Mr. McDougall pointed out, object oriented programming is neither a
requirement nor an asset to an emulator project.  It is quite simple
to implement oo behavior in C if there is any advantage to it for some
part of the project.

If your goal is to have some fun, of course do what is most fun to
you.  If you're trying to provide something of use to the community, I
think you're heading in the wrong direction.

-Aaron

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Fedor Steeman <petrander at gmail.com> wrote:
> You are right, Aaron, there is no real need for a new emulator, especially
> with all the excellent emulators already around.
>
> But it is often not just needs that drive development of new stuff. Like
> with many projects, people start out on some endeavour just to for the fun
> and challenge of it; to see if they can do it and in the special way they
> envisaged. I think this is what inspired Vcc and Mocha and other innovations
> for the CoCo. So despite the efforts it would take, it would be quite a
> rewarding experience, from which a lot can be learned!
>
> Sure, people could contribute to the MESS project just as much. It is,
> however, written in C, and that is not always accessible for everyone, and
> besides that, it is not object-oriented. That is why I am hinting at
> BlitzMax which is powerful, easy and object-oriented. That it is a
> commercial product is besides the point: Any project developed with it can
> be open source.
>
> I think MESS is a fine emulator, but it is more of a fuzz. For MESS you
> would need the ROM files, you would have to find the CoCo in a huge list of
> other computers, inevitably, because it is not geared for just the CoCo,
> etc. etc. Vcc is neat, compared to that, because it is just click-and-go! I
> admit it is not a lot of fuzz, so don't read too much in it. Still, I find
> myself using Vcc most of the time.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate the efforts put into this and any
> project for the CoCo by anyone!
>
> Cheers,
> Fedor
>
>
> 2009/11/1 Aaron Wolfe <aawolfe at gmail.com>
>
>> I am unconvinced of the need for yet another emulator.  MESS already
>> runs on a wide range of platforms, and more importantly it is open
>> source.  The effort it would take to invent these wheels again is
>> massive compared to the effort it would take to simply fix any actual
>> issues with MESS.  Everyone is welcome to take the code and fix it,
>> all of the tools needed are free (as in freedom) as well.  How could
>> an alternate emulator, especially one based on some single commercial
>> tool, possibly offer more?  What could one do in a new emulator that
>> cannot be done more easily by improving/extending/fixing MESS?
>>
>> I never got a response to my query as to what issues or regressions
>> the OP was talking about.  I don't understand what "fuzz" is.  If
>> there is a specific problem people are having with MESS, lets hear it.
>>  I'm more than happy to climb into the source and at least make an
>> effort to fix it for you.
>>
>> -Aaron
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Fedor Steeman <petrander at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Well, to go waaaaaaay back to the orignal question that started this
>> thread:
>> >
>> >
>> > I am not too fond of the MESS emulator, but not so much because I
>> > experienced problems, but because it's more fuzz than the awesome Vcc
>> > emulator. A drawback of Vcc is of course that it is Windows only.
>> >
>> > So I am all for a new cross-platform emulator and some time ago I even
>> gave
>> > it a go myself, but had to abandon my plans, because I had gotten way too
>> > ambitious (if not presumptuous) compared to my skills/insight and
>> available
>> > time. Also many platforms seem to cumbersome or not fast enough for the
>> kind
>> > of implementation I envisaged.
>> >
>> > Still I would certainly encourage anyone to give it a go, and maybe one
>> day
>> > I will try myself again. Using SDL would be a good idea for keeping it
>> cross
>> > platform, but an even better idea would be using BlitzMax:
>> > http://www.blitzbasic.com/Products/_index_.php
>> >
>> > BlitzMax features an easy to grasp, BASIC-like syntax with fast graphics
>> and
>> > it is even object-oriented! Compilers are available at an affordable
>> price
>> > for Windows, MacOSX and Linux.
>> >
>> > If I ever would try to write an emulator I would probably use BlitzMax.
>> >
>> > Just my 5 cents...
>> >
>> > Fedor
>> >
>> >
>> > 2009/9/6 TP Reitzel <tpreitzel at hotmail.com>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> We need an emulator to replace MESS. For almost a decade, MESS has had
>> >> recurring problems with regressions, etc. Personally, I just can't deal
>> with
>> >> it much anymore. Various toolkits are employed which just worsens the
>> >> situation with regressions. Frankly, I have a lot of venting to do about
>> >> MESS, but I'll hold my tongue. I've stated as much as the background for
>> our
>> >> need of  an independent project. Although Vcc is likely still active, it
>> >> hasn't been updated in awhile. We need a portable, e.g. SDL, fully
>> >> implemented emulator for all CoCos whether it simply emulates historical
>> >> machines (CoCo 1-3) or contains newer features as well...
>> >>
>> >>
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