[Coco] NitrOS9 question
Dave Philipsen
dave at davebiz.com
Sun Oct 8 18:53:57 EDT 2017
Thanks, Neal! See? I knew you'd come around. I probably should have
explained my minimalist needs in the first place...
Dave
On 10/8/2017 4:12 PM, Neal Crook wrote:
>>> the biggest hurdles will just involve the timer and interrupts.
> and those are trivial; see level2/modules/mc09clock.asm for a worked
> example that has (for L2) no dependence on coco hardware.
>
> Neal
>
> On 8 October 2017 at 03:41, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, that’s good to know because I’m going to *try* to port Level 2 to an
>> FPGA board with a CoCo compatible MMU. I’m hoping with the graphics,
>> sound, joystick, and keyboard stuff pulled out of it that the biggest
>> hurdles will just involve the timer and interrupts.
>>
>> And hoping to pull it off before the end of the year.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 9:22 PM, L. Curtis Boyle <curtisboyle at sasktel.net>
>> wrote:
>>> Yes, lots of level II systems (Gimix, etc.) that came out before the
>> Coco 3. The Coco 3 was the first with windowing, though.
>>> L. Curtis Boyle
>>> curtisboyle at sasktel.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 7:59 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I can kind of understand basically what’s going on. I *think* an
>> unused block of RAM is used by the kernel to do certain chores involved in
>> copying data from one place to another perhaps. The unused block gets
>> mapped into the $A000-BFFF MMU block which is assumed to contain system
>> modules which are basically read-only. When the original block is mapped
>> out temporarily, it turns out that because of the small size boot file it
>> wasn’t holding system modules after all. It was containing some important
>> data for the kernel which is dynamically aloocated. So now the kernel,
>> while processing a particular function, goes to access that memory but
>> another block is temporarily mapped in there. I could be off on exactly
>> what is happening there but that’s kind of the idea I got when reading the
>> comments. Whoever wrote the code made an assumption that that particular
>> block would always be in use for a particular sort of thing. When they
>> originally designed Level 2 perhaps they never imagined anyone trimming
>> down a boot file to be so small and they never imagined anyone would pull
>> the graphics functions out (CoWin and/or VTIO modules).
>>>> In fact, was Level 2 ever officially ported to anything besides the
>> CoCo 3 by Microware?
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 6:21 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>
>>>>> That is good to know.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know my test boot disk I was using was on the CoCoSDC, but I am
>> using the
>>>>> standard REL, KRN, and Boot modules. I know that if I stay above
>> $4200 on
>>>>> my OS9Boot file it works fine, but if I go under $4200 for size it
>> crashes.
>>>>> Interesting the modules used to boot on the SD card crashes below
>> $4400.
>>>>> We have some really freaky stuff going on here :P
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------+
>>>>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
>> |
>>>>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
>> |
>>>>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/
>> user/PacoOtaktay/live |
>>>>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com & http://www.theterrorzone.com
>> |
>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
>> |
>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
>> |
>>>>> |
>> |
>>>>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
>> |
>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------+
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> I just now read the notes. Apparently there were some comments made
>> over
>>>>>> six years ago but no action was taken on it. And in reality, it's
>> probably
>>>>>> not a problem most people would ever see. And even for me it's not
>> going
>>>>>> to be a big deal now that I know about it and how to avoid it. I have
>> a
>>>>>> basic understanding of why it's happening and I did see some
>> references to
>>>>>> the use of the FFA5 block of the MMU in the kernel source code as a
>> sort of
>>>>>> temporary area for manipulating data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/7/2017 5:05 PM, Tormod Volden wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but the issue with too small
>>>>>>> OS9BOOT files is documented in the bug tracker, with explanation
>> IIRC.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Tormod
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Very interesting, David. Thanks for the quick update.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:40 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To fix my booting issue I just added sysgo into the OS9Boot file to
>>>>>>>>> fill up
>>>>>>>>> some space (*shrug*) and works fine. I know it doesn't make any
>> sense,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> maybe Robert, Curtis, Bill, or Bill can give some feedback on this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> ------------+
>>>>>>>>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/
>> user/PacoOtaktay/live
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com &
>> http://www.theterrorzone.com
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> ------------+
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ok, so it’s larger than $4401. I’d be curious to see what would
>>>>>>>>>> happen if
>>>>>>>>>> you removed rb1773, d0, d1, and d2 from the bootfile. That would
>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>> get it down below $4401 in size.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:19 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Here is the directory from the root:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> {Term|02}/DD:dir -e
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Directory of . 2017/09/28 23:04
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Owner Last modified Attributes Sector Bytecount Name
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- ---------------- ---------- ------ --------- ----
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 ------wr 13 485F OS9Boot
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 5D B20 CMDS
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 66 1C0 SYS
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 6F 100 DEFS
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/09/28 21:12 ----r-wr 78 F00 ccbkrn
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/09/28 21:12 --e-rewr 88 1FF sysgo
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/09/28 21:01 ----r-wr 62D F9 startup
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 62F 60 NITROS9
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------+
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/use
>>>>>>>>>>> r/PacoOtaktay/live
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com &
>> http://www.theterrorzone.com
>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------+
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, so how big is the bootfile?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:15 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I can't test this on a CoCo3FPGA right now I did finally
>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deluxe RS232 Pak working. I modified the make files for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NitrOS-9
>>>>>>>>>>>>> project and made myself a CoCoSDC headless that uses the sc6551
>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> term modules. Here is my short ident of my OS9Boot file. I
>> tested
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it does work and with the standard Shell+ as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> {Term|02}/DD:ident os9boot -s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19 $C0 $FA063B . KrnP2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13 $C1 $FB10BD . IOMan
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 $C0 $9D910E . Init
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 37 $D1 $245E32 . RBF
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 $E1 $84C07C . RBSuper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 22 $21 $230904 . llcocosdc
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $DB0F90 . SD0
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $081F95 . SD1
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $F8621C . DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 $E1 $A4EB50 . rb1773
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $045CD6 . D0
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $803FAD . D1
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $8C9A43 . D2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18 $D1 $55C62E . SCF
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 $E1 $67C110 . sc6551
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 83 $F1 $64212E . Term
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 $D1 $6F9717 . PipeMan
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 $E1 $895C5F . Piper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 80 $F1 $D512FB . Pipe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9 $C1 $9A36A3 . Clock
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 $21 $5833D2 . Clock2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------+
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> user/PacoOtaktay/live
>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com &
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.theterrorzone.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------+
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Dave Philipsen <
>> dave at davebiz.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to do some experiments with this on a real CoCo
>> 3, too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> using the CoCo3FPGA right now. It's much easier for me to test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this platform because I have the ability to boot with an
>> alternate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bootfile
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just by holding down the ALT key while booting. I can make
>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS9Boot.1 file while still retaining the original OS9Boot file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of Brett's bootloader, I don't have to do anything
>> special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate the bootfile. I just merge all of the modules
>> needed and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bootloader will load it no matter if it's fragmented or where
>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> resides on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the disk structure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/6/2017 7:50 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ran into the same issue when creating the headless
>> Drivewire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ago. If the boot file became too small, things went
>> badly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately Boisy solved this in our case so I can't give
>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure if he still monitors this list, fairly sure he
>> intended to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the nitros9 source to correct the bug. Perhaps the fix got
>> lost or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> comprehensive. In any case, I can confirm a third case where
>> small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> file became an issue in itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Aaron
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017 8:35 AM, "Neal Crook" <foofoobedoo at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my mc09 l2 development I found a bug where a too - small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bootfile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hang. Padding it fixed the problem. I will look out the
>> details over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weekend and let you know, so we can see if our experiences
>> tally. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good to know that it was a generic problem and not specific
>> to my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hardware. I spent quite a lot of time in emulation trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> track it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>> without success
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Oct 2017 12:40, "Dave Philipsen" <dave at davebiz.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Haha! That doesn't work either. But as soon as I
>> re-assemble
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Term
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 265 extra bytes in it, it boots just fine. So it really does
>> appear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an issue with size and not order.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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