[Coco] NitrOS9 question
Neal Crook
foofoobedoo at gmail.com
Sun Oct 8 17:12:41 EDT 2017
>> the biggest hurdles will just involve the timer and interrupts.
and those are trivial; see level2/modules/mc09clock.asm for a worked
example that has (for L2) no dependence on coco hardware.
Neal
On 8 October 2017 at 03:41, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com> wrote:
> Well, that’s good to know because I’m going to *try* to port Level 2 to an
> FPGA board with a CoCo compatible MMU. I’m hoping with the graphics,
> sound, joystick, and keyboard stuff pulled out of it that the biggest
> hurdles will just involve the timer and interrupts.
>
> And hoping to pull it off before the end of the year.
>
> Dave
>
> > On Oct 7, 2017, at 9:22 PM, L. Curtis Boyle <curtisboyle at sasktel.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, lots of level II systems (Gimix, etc.) that came out before the
> Coco 3. The Coco 3 was the first with windowing, though.
> >
> > L. Curtis Boyle
> > curtisboyle at sasktel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 7, 2017, at 7:59 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I can kind of understand basically what’s going on. I *think* an
> unused block of RAM is used by the kernel to do certain chores involved in
> copying data from one place to another perhaps. The unused block gets
> mapped into the $A000-BFFF MMU block which is assumed to contain system
> modules which are basically read-only. When the original block is mapped
> out temporarily, it turns out that because of the small size boot file it
> wasn’t holding system modules after all. It was containing some important
> data for the kernel which is dynamically aloocated. So now the kernel,
> while processing a particular function, goes to access that memory but
> another block is temporarily mapped in there. I could be off on exactly
> what is happening there but that’s kind of the idea I got when reading the
> comments. Whoever wrote the code made an assumption that that particular
> block would always be in use for a particular sort of thing. When they
> originally designed Level 2 perhaps they never imagined anyone trimming
> down a boot file to be so small and they never imagined anyone would pull
> the graphics functions out (CoWin and/or VTIO modules).
> >>
> >> In fact, was Level 2 ever officially ported to anything besides the
> CoCo 3 by Microware?
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>> On Oct 7, 2017, at 6:21 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dave,
> >>>
> >>> That is good to know.
> >>>
> >>> I know my test boot disk I was using was on the CoCoSDC, but I am
> using the
> >>> standard REL, KRN, and Boot modules. I know that if I stay above
> $4200 on
> >>> my OS9Boot file it works fine, but if I go under $4200 for size it
> crashes.
> >>>
> >>> Interesting the modules used to boot on the SD card crashes below
> $4400.
> >>> We have some really freaky stuff going on here :P
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> ------------+
> >>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
> |
> >>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
> |
> >>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/
> user/PacoOtaktay/live |
> >>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com & http://www.theterrorzone.com
> |
> >>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
> |
> >>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
> |
> >>> |
> |
> >>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
> |
> >>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> ------------+
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I just now read the notes. Apparently there were some comments made
> over
> >>>> six years ago but no action was taken on it. And in reality, it's
> probably
> >>>> not a problem most people would ever see. And even for me it's not
> going
> >>>> to be a big deal now that I know about it and how to avoid it. I have
> a
> >>>> basic understanding of why it's happening and I did see some
> references to
> >>>> the use of the FFA5 block of the MMU in the kernel source code as a
> sort of
> >>>> temporary area for manipulating data.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 10/7/2017 5:05 PM, Tormod Volden wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi guys,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but the issue with too small
> >>>>> OS9BOOT files is documented in the bug tracker, with explanation
> IIRC.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Tormod
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Very interesting, David. Thanks for the quick update.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:40 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dave,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To fix my booting issue I just added sysgo into the OS9Boot file to
> >>>>>>> fill up
> >>>>>>> some space (*shrug*) and works fine. I know it doesn't make any
> sense,
> >>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>> maybe Robert, Curtis, Bill, or Bill can give some feedback on this.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> ------------+
> >>>>>>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/
> user/PacoOtaktay/live
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com &
> http://www.theterrorzone.com
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
> >>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> ------------+
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ok, so it’s larger than $4401. I’d be curious to see what would
> >>>>>>>> happen if
> >>>>>>>> you removed rb1773, d0, d1, and d2 from the bootfile. That would
> >>>>>>>> probably
> >>>>>>>> get it down below $4401 in size.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:19 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Dave,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Here is the directory from the root:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> {Term|02}/DD:dir -e
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Directory of . 2017/09/28 23:04
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Owner Last modified Attributes Sector Bytecount Name
> >>>>>>>>> ----- ---------------- ---------- ------ --------- ----
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 ------wr 13 485F OS9Boot
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 5D B20 CMDS
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 66 1C0 SYS
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 6F 100 DEFS
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/09/28 21:12 ----r-wr 78 F00 ccbkrn
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/09/28 21:12 --e-rewr 88 1FF sysgo
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/09/28 21:01 ----r-wr 62D F9 startup
> >>>>>>>>> 0 2017/10/06 15:49 d-ewrewr 62F 60 NITROS9
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ------------+
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
> >>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/use
> >>>>>>>>> r/PacoOtaktay/live
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com &
> http://www.theterrorzone.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
> >>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ------------+
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Dave Philipsen <dave at davebiz.com
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Ok, so how big is the bootfile?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:15 PM, David Ladd <davidwladd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dave,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Since I can't test this on a CoCo3FPGA right now I did finally
> get
> >>>>>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>>>>> Deluxe RS232 Pak working. I modified the make files for the
> >>>>>>>>>>> NitrOS-9
> >>>>>>>>>>> project and made myself a CoCoSDC headless that uses the sc6551
> >>>>>>>>>>> driver
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> term modules. Here is my short ident of my OS9Boot file. I
> tested
> >>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> it does work and with the standard Shell+ as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> {Term|02}/DD:ident os9boot -s
> >>>>>>>>>>> 19 $C0 $FA063B . KrnP2
> >>>>>>>>>>> 13 $C1 $FB10BD . IOMan
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1 $C0 $9D910E . Init
> >>>>>>>>>>> 37 $D1 $245E32 . RBF
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2 $E1 $84C07C . RBSuper
> >>>>>>>>>>> 22 $21 $230904 . llcocosdc
> >>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $DB0F90 . SD0
> >>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $081F95 . SD1
> >>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $F8621C . DD
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1 $E1 $A4EB50 . rb1773
> >>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $045CD6 . D0
> >>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $803FAD . D1
> >>>>>>>>>>> 82 $F1 $8C9A43 . D2
> >>>>>>>>>>> 18 $D1 $55C62E . SCF
> >>>>>>>>>>> 10 $E1 $67C110 . sc6551
> >>>>>>>>>>> 83 $F1 $64212E . Term
> >>>>>>>>>>> 5 $D1 $6F9717 . PipeMan
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2 $E1 $895C5F . Piper
> >>>>>>>>>>> 80 $F1 $D512FB . Pipe
> >>>>>>>>>>> 9 $C1 $9A36A3 . Clock
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1 $21 $5833D2 . Clock2
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ------------+
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> | David Ladd a.k.a. PacoOtaktay a.k.a. Drencor
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> | YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PacoOtaktay
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> | YouTube Gaming Live: https://gaming.youtube.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> user/PacoOtaktay/live
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> | Websites: http://dwladd.com &
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.theterrorzone.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/113262444659438038657
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> | G+: https://plus.google.com/+DavidLaddPacoOtaktay
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> | Do you have your CoCo 3 yet?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> |
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ------------+
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Dave Philipsen <
> dave at davebiz.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I would like to do some experiments with this on a real CoCo
> 3, too.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> using the CoCo3FPGA right now. It's much easier for me to test
> >>>>>>>>>>>> things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> this platform because I have the ability to boot with an
> alternate
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> bootfile
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> just by holding down the ALT key while booting. I can make
> changes
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> OS9Boot.1 file while still retaining the original OS9Boot file.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Also,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because of Brett's bootloader, I don't have to do anything
> special
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> generate the bootfile. I just merge all of the modules
> needed and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> bootloader will load it no matter if it's fragmented or where
> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> resides on
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> the disk structure.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/6/2017 7:50 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We ran into the same issue when creating the headless
> Drivewire
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> disks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> some
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> years ago. If the boot file became too small, things went
> badly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately Boisy solved this in our case so I can't give
> you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> specifics.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Not sure if he still monitors this list, fairly sure he
> intended to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> patch
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> the nitros9 source to correct the bug. Perhaps the fix got
> lost or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> comprehensive. In any case, I can confirm a third case where
> small
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> boot
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> file became an issue in itself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Aaron
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2017 8:35 AM, "Neal Crook" <foofoobedoo at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In my mc09 l2 development I found a bug where a too - small
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> bootfile
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> hang. Padding it fixed the problem. I will look out the
> details over
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> weekend and let you know, so we can see if our experiences
> tally. It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> be good to know that it was a generic problem and not specific
> to my
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> target
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hardware. I spent quite a lot of time in emulation trying to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> track it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> down
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> without success
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Neal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Oct 2017 12:40, "Dave Philipsen" <dave at davebiz.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Haha! That doesn't work either. But as soon as I
> re-assemble
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Term
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 265 extra bytes in it, it boots just fine. So it really does
> appear
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to be
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> an issue with size and not order.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Coco mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Coco mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Coco mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Coco mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Coco mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >>>>>>>> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Coco mailing list
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Coco mailing list
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> >> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
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>
>
> --
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