[Coco] DECB or ECB Compiler

[Andrew]

Responses inline...

> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:51:14 -0400
> From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch-coco at 30below.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] DECB or ECB Compiler
> 
> There was a very advanced system - I'm pretty sure it was a compiler - 
> fpr the CoCo3; I believe it was called Window Basic 3 or WBasic3 -- 
> memory cells are froggy right now... I remember drooling over it back in 
> the day because it was kinda like Basic09 for SECB on Steroids...

The only one I remember (froggy here too) was Cer-Comp's Window Master, 
as already mentioned...and what I will speak to.

> The good features that I remember:
> 
> 1) Line numbers not needed (but could be used when importing older programs)

As far as I can tell in my user manual (yes, I own a copy of it and 
CBASIC-3) - line numbers were needed in Window Master.

> 2) It had built-in MMU support - so a DIM statement of an array too big 
> to fit in 32K *worked* -- if you had 512K, you could DIMension almost 
> all of the ram (minus program/video/etc. memory) for huge (for SECB) 
> data support.

Window Master extended DECB; it didn't add anything extra MMU-wise 
(except for a RAM disk if you had 512K).

> 3) It had built-in basic Windowing support - you could create several 
> different text windows & have different outputs to different windows -- 
> I don't know if it had graphical capabilities; that's beyond my memory 
> allocation** right now. (Where's that big DIM statement when I need it?)

Window Master offered a full GUI suite of commands for trapping events, 
opening/closing windows, showing icons, building menus and dialogs, etc. 
It was actually fairly advanced for the day. It wasn't a compiler, though.

> Now for the bad news:
> 
> 1) I don't believe it contained a "100% SECB compatible" mode. Depending 
> on the complexity of the program you wanted to convert probably 
> translated to the complexity of debugging session you would need to 
> endure to convert a program to WBasic3. I think the "basics" were quite 
> similar, but when you got into the graphics & whatnot, I think there was 
> quite a bit that was different.

Window Master extended DECB - I don't think I ever exercised it 
extensively as a kid, but from what I do remember, it was fairly highly 
compatible with standard DECB; the implication was to make it easy to 
convert existing programs to add windowing support, or build such 
programs from scratch.

> 2) No CoCo1/2 support.

No - CoCo 3 only, and some functionality was limited on 128K CoCo 3s 
(for example, not as many windows, and the RAM disk was not installed).

> Anyway, if I get 'round to drumming up some time and finding my old 
> Rainbows, I'll see if I can find an ad for it.

If you have an advert for a different windowing system/compiler, I'm 
sure everyone would love to see it!

:)

> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:06:03 -0500
> From: "Little John" <sales at gimechip.com>
> 
> Roger,
> That sounds kind of like Window Master for the CoCo 3 from Cer-Comp. It 
> wasn't a BASIC compiler, but added a windowing environment to SECB. Cer-Comp 
> did offer CBASIC-3 which was a compiler and weighed in at $149 - the most 
> expensive on the market.

As I've stated before, I own both of those.

It should be noted that CBASIC-3 couldn't compile Window Master 
programs; it had no "knowledge" of the extra commands. I wouldn't be a 
bit surprised if this wasn't something planned for a future release, but 
we never saw it.

As it was, CBASIC-3 offered a wealth of extras to the BASIC programmer; 
it not only compiled programs to a native binary, but it also extended 
the BASIC command set (similar to Window Master - though not with any 
windowing commands). It purported (I never played with it) to make 512K 
memory access simpler, with extra commands to handle the intricacies. It 
also added various interrupt processing statements, and other 
enhancements (like an enhanced editor for code). You still needed to use 
line numbers, though.

I had variable luck with it as a compiler; you could get faster code out 
of it, but from what I recall it wasn't a "blazing speedup" (it did have 
an interesting command called "GEN" that would allow you to insert ML 
instructions in the form of HEX or DEC values directly into the object 
code produced). It may just be that at the time, I was a kid and not a 
very great programmer; perhaps in the hands of someone more advanced, or 
with some experimentation - the speedup could be increased. There was a 
"helpful hints" appendix in the manual for making your code faster.

I know that if you look carefully in various archives, you might be able 
to find a copy or two of CBASIC-3 floating around. Both Window Master 
and CBASIC-3 back in the day had a form of disk-based copy protection on 
them; I know that CBASIC-3 was broken - Window Master is unknown. Of the 
two, CBASIC-3 was the better to use, anyhow.

One other note: As of several years back, Bill Vergona (owner of 
Cer-Comp) would, every now-and-then, sell a copy or two of CBASIC-3 on 
Ebay - his handle there (I forget what it was - search the archive) 
hasn't shown activity on it for years, though. I am not even sure he is 
still with us, but what little interaction I had with him back then 
(asking about the status of the copyright, etc - on CBASIC-3 - I was 
hoping he would release it PD) told me he was (still?) a cantankerous 
man who would hear nothing of the sort, and only sold the few copies he 
did just to "keep up appearances" with the copyright office (his right, 
I suppose). He never interacted with this (or any other, that I know of) 
CoCo community/forum. I am not sure why, and I find it a sad bit of 
legacy in the CoCo community.

Whether he is still alive or not, I don't know (but I would love to find 
out!).

-- Andrew L. Ayers, Glendale, Arizona