[Papyrus-L] A Child King Process should be born!! Papyrus 7.5 for Win/Linux/etc?

[Chris Wallace]

  Well, this year (and the annual 'silly season' ;) is almost over,
and as that ends with a pause to reflect and look to the coming year, i
feel the chance to think again what should not be allowed to pass!

   While the devotion evident on this list reflects RSD's superb
support effort, it's also an endorsement of the strong design, as
testified by the number standing by the ol' DOS-based program despite the 
nuisances. I wonder if they would cry on seeing the similar beauty
and power of its lineage in Version 8 on the Mac. (Maybe as Mark Wilson
suggested, worth trying an emulator? Seems it's a serious exercise
 http://www.emaculation.com/articles/intro.html
but needn't be an expen$ive one..)
  Many Pap-ers certainly were and are prepared to put up to see such a
edition for their Windows and Linux desktops.

  Regrettably V8 was built using a (C++) interface framework (MacApp)
which Apple then abandoned their plans for taking across to Wintel boxes,
and now have left behind in their migration to MacOS X. Having fought and
sought a coalition to work around the former decision, it seems Dave
decided the latter made it time to 'throw in the towel'. 

  But Dave said he was open to suggestions, and since so many have mooted
it, a concrete proposal that would renew Papyrus has to be made, rather
than let this all go to waste 8-(.
  That is to firstly attempt an open-source port of the GUI for opening a
database, searching (which includes displaying groups) and outputting
placeholders / references to the clipboard. This would work through an
interface to the object code manipulating the database, which would remain
proprietary and restricted (at least for some years). RSD would adapt the
latter to work with V7 databases, and sell the resulting solution for the
problems interacting with Win32 word processors, while thanking the
programmers with gratis copies.

   The momentum would hopefully be there to then similarly tackle two
further projects for importing + updating the database (so can break with 
DOS and its character set restrictions altogether), and for processing
manuscripts.

    Though for net-savvy portability i would guess Java as the target
platform of choice, that and other technical discussions would be
determined by those interested, maybe on a Sourceforge list.
  I should note that i have spent plenty of time considering various 
open source bibliography-related projects, but i couldn't find any useful
( http://freshmeat.net/search/?site=Freshmeat&q=bibliograph&section=projects
  , http://www.osdn.com/osdnsearch.pl?site=all&query=bibliograph )
synergies.

  Anyway, Merry Christmas [or appropriate solstice festival!] to you all,
and hope 2002 will be a better year in so many aspects,

   Chris Wallace
---
It would be naive to think that the problems plaguing mankind today can be
solved with means and methods which were applied or seemed to work in the
past. . .  -- Mikhail Gorbachev (1988)

When you cease to dream you cease to live. -- Malcolm S. Forbes

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From: papyrus-l at rsd.com (PAT PATTERSON)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:18:05 -0400
Subject: Betreft: Re: [Papyrus-L] Future Papyrus

I agree in spirit with everything I've seen.  However, I think part of the
problem is OVERSPECIFICATION of the new windows version of Papyrus.  If we
omit all the bells and whistles, I'll bet we really only need a few
extras.
We need a cure for the W2K woes (jumping cursor problem, clipboard
problem, are there others?), we need compatibility with the latest Word
and possibly other word processors, and we need the ongoing attention to
citation formats.

Dave, is a "less ambitious" version for Windows possible?

F. G. Patterson, Jr., Ph.D., George Mason University, Fairfax, VA, USA
20030, (775)599-4319 (fax-to-email). Message sent from Fairfax.


From: papyrus-l at rsd.com (Andrew McLachlan (PhD))
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:21:26 +1300
Subject: Betreft: Re: [Papyrus-L] Future Papyrus

Hi All

I too am saddened by Dave's announcement.

Regarding Windows, Linux etc. versions, I have often wondered whether 
it would be possible to develop a native Windows (or Linux) front-end 
that acts much like PAP_RES does in DOS. That is, just does simple 
searches (or even more complex searches) and then allows pasting into 
a document. A native Win32 program would eliminate some of the 
difficulties of upgrading to WinNT, Win2k etc. It would seem that a 
program that can read and search a Papyrus database would be 
relatively simple to create compared to a Windows/Linux version with 
new features etc..

The excellent Papyrus DOS program would remain for creating and 
editing the database (albeit with some of the problems mentioned by 
earlier correspondents).

Does this sound feasible, or a workable solution to keeping Papyrus 
useable for a few more years?

Cheers

-- 
Andrew McLachlan,  PhD.  <MCLACHLA at lincoln.ac.nz>
Ecology & Entomology Group,  P.O. Box 84,  Lincoln University,   
Canterbury,  New Zealand.  ph. +64 3 325-2811, fax. +64 3 325-3844.


From: papyrus-l at rsd.com (Jean-francois Royer)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:31:26 +0200 (METDST)
Subject: Betreft: Re: [Papyrus-L] Future Papyrus

Dave and fellow Papyrus users,

I fully agree with Andrew McLachland's suggestion, and would in fact
be rather happy to be able to switch to Linux if a Linux version of the
retriever were available, and occasionally start a DOS session when
updating of the database is needed.

>From papyrus-l at rsd.com  Thu Oct 11 23:02:43 2001
From: papyrus-l at rsd.com (Denis Brown)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 06:02:43 +0800 (WST)
Subject: [Papyrus-L] Important Papyrus news
In-Reply-To: <l03010d02b7eb9e2b2957@[207.202.136.247]> from "Dave Goldman,
Research
 Software Design" at "Oct 11, 2001 12:26:03 pm"
Message-ID: <200110112202.GAA25706 at cyllene.uwa.edu.au>

Dave and fellow Papyrus users,

I am saddened by the news that Research Software Design will no longer
pursue a Windows-based product.  Someone on this list a while ago
suggested that the programmers among us unite to help Dave in realising
such a goal.

Dave, correct me if I'm wrong but at the time you were unable to respond
positively to this suggestion.  Given your current situation and what I
assume has been a considerable expenditure of effort, would you consider
revisiting this idea -- assuming members are still willing to become
involved?  I am no "gun" programmer in terms of flash things but, given
the time availability, I would be willing to make a contribution.

An alternative platform could be Linux.  This does not have to mean that
you open-source your product, but rather the gui interface or character
interface.  Hopefully the basic "engine" logic is contained within a
library which could be linked to the character / gui frontend.

I have recently had to install several copies of my University's choice
(EndNote) and while it's a fine product -- and has become much better over
time -- I still prefer the "lean and hungry" nature of Papyrus!  Does
anyone else feel this way -- that Papyrus is worth developing
further?  Fingers crossed.

Greetings from Australia!
Denis