[Coco] Fwd: Re: Died from old age?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 22 December 2014 14:49:17 Chad H did opine
And Gene did reply:
> My ESR meter is home-built, arduino based. I've tried testing caps or
> resistors inline before and then removing them and got different
> results so I just got in the habit of removing the part.

That is because of the much higher voltages the arduino based device uses 
to test with, its enough to turn on any semiconductors connected.  
Probably in the 3 volt peak to peak range.  The Capacitor Wizard only uses 
85 millivolts, to low to even turn on a germanium device.

 > I pulled 2
> caps this afternoon and tested them.  The microfarads was close to the
> labeled capacitance and the ESR was .24 on the first one.  The 2nd I
> pulled was the big 6.3v 4700uf cap.  The microfarads read ok but the
> ESR reading was a "?" so I was suspect of that one.

Absolutely bad.

> I didn't have any
> spare caps that large laying around but I did have a couple of old 63v
> 2200uf caps I had pulled from a old stereo receiver that were OK.  I
> installed one of those and the CoCo came alive! Yay!  I tested the
> original 4700uf cap afterwards and the ESR reading was "0".  From my
> experience with capacitors, the ESR on good capacitors seems to be
> slightly more elevated as the microfarads increases.  I know lower is
> better but "0"?  Still suspect of that, but I reinstalled it and the
> CoCo came on??  Repowered it several times and have been leaving it
> running, so far so good.

You healed it either with the soldering irons heat, or with an almost un-
noticeable discharge arc.

FWIW, the 2200 uf 63 volt cap may work, but will "deform" to less than 500 
uf in a year or so as the 5 volts bias is nowhere near enough to 
"maintain" its oxide formation internally, so the capacitance will fade as 
it reverts to more or less pure alu.

Rule of thumb: One should always try to use an electrolytic at its working 
voltage, sometimes even above it as long as the voltage surge rating isn't 
regularly exceeded, although a 6.3 volter running at 5 volts will often 
last a decade or so.  This is the major reason for cap failures in 5 to 15 
volt analog OR digital circuitry, the cap doesn't see enough voltage to 
maintain its "form", so the capacitance goes away, usually in a year or 
so. 

> At this point I think my problem is one of 2 things..
> 
> 1)  Poor solder joint at one of the capacitors which re-soldering
> corrected (though I didn't notice any breaks under my magnifying
> lamp.)
> 
> 2)  The 4700uf Capacitor is 'Marginal' at best and should be replaced.

Yes, no doubt in my now 80 yo mind, it WILL come back and haunt you until 
you do.
 
> I think I'm going to order a replacement for the 4700uf capacitor and
> compare the readings from the old one with the new one, then replace
> it.

Compare for your own edification, but replace anyway, Chad. :)

> Thanks for the ideas guys!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Coco [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene
> Heskett Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 11:42 AM
> To: coco at maltedmedia.com
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Fwd: Re: Died from old age?
> 
> On Monday 22 December 2014 11:35:56 Chad H did opine And Gene did reply:
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > From: Chad H <chadbh74 at hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 10:34 AM
> > To: ooogalapasooo at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] Died from old age?
> > 
> > Well I have a ESR meter so I shouldn't have any problem pulling
> > capacitors and testing them.
> 
> Why should you have to pull them?  The only ESR meter I have any
> experience with uses only 85 mv of AC voltage at 100 khz to make its
> measurement with.  This is so low that it does not turn on any
> parallel semiconductors it may be attached to circuit wise, so the
> caps are checked while still in circuit. Because of its time and part
> saving measurement ability when measuring surface mounted caps in
> DVC-PRO broadcast VCR's, it saved me at least 2/3rds of the time to
> repair and put back in service for many of the electronics bits &
> pieces of a busy TV station for several years.
> 
> Its called a Capacitor Wizard, and sells for about 2 bills, made in
> Omaha originally but I think the guy has moved to KC sometime it the
> last 20 years.  FWIW, caps suffering from ESR are often easily, but
> temporarily fixed, by giving them a charge or discharge at a high
> enough rate to form a micro-weld across the ESR causing aluminum oxide
> at the internal to external terminal connection points.  Quite a few
> of the other so called ESR testers do use enough voltage to "heal the
> cap", for a day or so.
> 
> IMNSHO, this particular device is the only one that measures them all,
> and does it accurately and in circuit. ANYTHING else just wastes your
> time lying to you.
> 
> Expensive enough at $200 or so that I do not personally own one, but I
> know where one is that I can use anytime I need it.
> 
> > I just don't know about the DIP
> > switches.  I also need to identify the thing underneath the crazy
> > heat sink.  I think its some sort of power transistor.  Here are
> > pics of the board ... tinyurl.com/ko5dxy7.   Still looking for a
> > service manual for this model.
> 
> That is a more or less std Si, NPN power transistor in a TO-3 case. 
> Never had one fail, but a strong magnifying glass may disclose a
> micro-crack in the solder around the pins on the bottom of the board. 
> Its cheap solder, so suck it or solder-wick it off & replace it with
> decent, modern silver bearing solder.  Use a temp controlled iron,
> needs 700F to remove that junk, but only about 625F to 650F for modern
> silver bearing solders. Rosin core of course.
> 
> Lead free solders need more heat. 750F maybe. But I haven't used any of
> that roll I bought with a new soldering iron 2 years ago, and now the
> iron has failed & no help from the american dealer in Lincoln NE, its
> out of warranty and I feel screwed $200 worth.  But guess what? I have
> a 54 year old weller WTC that I pulled off the shelf, and it still
> works perfectly at whatever temp is stamped on the button on the back
> end of the tip.  Old faithful.  Newer ones aren't so good, with fairly
> rapid heater failures when subjected to on in the morning, off
> whenever the bench lights go off for the night duties.  That one
> worked under such conditions at KOTA-TV for several years, and is my
> emergency goto iron.
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS
> 
> --
> Coco mailing list
> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS