[Coco] SuperIDE and CF Cards

Wed Jul 10 00:44:41 EDT 2013

Mark,

After this kind RTFM :-), I read all I'm thinking to initialize the card
from scratch, not to copy from the original one.

Problem is, I don't have the multipak, so I can't use the floppy and the
superIDE simultaneously. What are my options to initialize it? Copy
wizard.bas to tape? Use driveware? Any help/FAQ old post I can follow?

For the records I compared every single byte of the cards. The good card
has exactally 256901120 bytes. I compared each of them. So, copy errors are
excluded. The only think I can think about is different geometry, that`s
why I'll try to start from scratch.

c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ cp /dev/disk3 256_CARD
c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ diskutil eject /dev/disk3
Disk /dev/disk3 ejected
c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ ls -l 256_CARD
-rw-r-----  1 ranaur  staff  256901120 Jul 10 00:45 256_CARD
c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ dc
256901120 1024 / p
250880
250880 1024 * p
256901120
^C
c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ dd if=/dev/disk3 of=4GB_CARD bs=1024 count=250880
dd: /dev/disk3: No such file or directory
c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ dd if=/dev/disk3 of=4GB_CARD bs=1024 count=250880
250880+0 records in
250880+0 records out
256901120 bytes transferred in 45.345194 secs (5665454 bytes/sec)
c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$ diff 256_CARD 4GB_CARD
c3po:SuperIDE ranaur$

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Mark Marlette <mmarlette at frontiernet.net>wrote:

> All,
>
> Many people are having issues making a backup or building a boot for the
> sIDE.
>
> I often get asked why don't I simplify it.... It is complex but far from
> impossible.
>
> When I make a distribution I build it on a REAL CoCo. It is built using
> the scripts. They work, they will always work as long as the disk integrity
> is there and the end user made a legal modifications, if any....Some choose
> to ignore the scripts. Best advice, use the scripts and learn how one is
> built, then apply it to your situation. That is the work that I did to
> simplify. Each person learns differently.....Can lead a horse to water but
> can't make them drink....
>
> Ed Orbea sent me his CFs that he was having problems with. As he has
> indicated they all have different ideprobe results, welcome to the world of
> the PC.....3 out of the 4 are SanDisk CFs and look indentical, when in fact
> they are not. I didn't look at the details of the ideprobe. I have seen
> this as well taking his word on it. I wanted to see the issues so I
> contacted Ed and he sent them in. They will be returned today Ed all but
> Transcend is imaged. Transcend is usable, just more has to be done to use
> this CF...You would have to move your hdb-dos offset lower.
>
> I use WinHex Pro. It works for many things we do here at C-9, backing up
> anything,etc...Comes with a price tag, so understandably it wouldn't be a
> common users tool of choice. It took me under 5 minutes to access his issue.
>
> 1. SideWalk DOES NOT create an exact image. Had almost 6million compare
> errors on a 256MB image. So not sure what it is doing...??? Do not use it
> otherwise you will have corruption. Aaron will need to address this issue.
> Sure it has something to do with HDB-DOS and NitrOS-9 partitions on same
> device.
>
> To get around the floating cluster counts from various 256MB CFs or any
> CF. They are all not created equal. Ed sent in 4 CFs, one a Transcend,
> didn't even have enough sectors to except a C-9 distribution, but the
> SanDisks did and they all were 256MB...
>
> So in my custom distribution...wwwwwwaaaaaayyyyyy way back when I created
> the standard for the offsets. I analyzed all of my 256MB CFs and picked the
> top sector location for HDB-DOS to reside.....
>
> Which takes me to Gustavo's problem here.......You took the first 200MB
> and compared. Well you shaved off ~2/3's of the HDB-DOS image.
> Understanding where, what and why the partitions are placed where they are
> is critical to success. So as your compare was equal, your results are
> erroneous. The good side of what Gustavo has indicated is that it appears
> that dd will creeate a proper image WHEN the correct sector information is
> used.
>
> This sector information is included with EVERY order. It is a custom
> installation instruction / guide. At the bottom of the doc is the drive's
> geometry....Most toss it, as my fiancee says, it is all of bunch of blah,
> blah, blah....until they need it and can speak the language......
>
> I tried to use a program called Win32DiskImager(Win32DI) freeware tool on
> my custom image. It complained that it wouldn't fit...when in fact I knew
> better. So what I did was made a new backup using that tool on a WinHex
> imaged CF, then made a new CF with Win32DI, it worked, no problems.
>
> WinHex allows you to specify sector locations, start and ending points,
> etc...A lot more advanced than the free Win32DI program. Thus why Win32DI
> was complaining....it might act like BACKUP under NOS, have to be
> identical, don't know....
>
> What I proved is that they is a tool that does work that is free.
>
> Please don't ask me for a step by step process. What buttons to press,
> etc. I spend my free time filling orders and doing development on the next
> generation of CoCo gadgets. The information is all in the manuals for
> HDB-DOS, SuperDriver and the general process, which sometime frankly, is
> the school of hard knocks.
>
> One customer told me once that I spend more time giving him a non answer
> than the answer....My response was...it is in the manual....My point was
> "Use the source Luke"........If one does not use the documentation and
> understand where to look to solve their own issue, you will always be
> looking for external help. Could have easily spoon feed them with the
> answer....
>
> Luis, when he got his system, had many of the same questions. I gave Luis
> no more help than anyone else with the standard support package. Now if you
> want more support, then we do that on an hourly charge. The rate is not
> cheap because of my limited time and it does take me away from my free time
> and my family. Back to Luis....He figured it out and understands the
> platforms and the tools. Heck he even made his own tools! Was their a book,
> a step by step instruction? No, that was his goal, not sure he even
> completed his white paper on it. I am not even sure that the NOS
> documentation describes how to build a kernel???? That has been an open
> source project for many years and I don't think many have stepped up to the
> plate to help with the documentation.
>
> It is a HUGE task and the target audience skill level varies. What I find
> to be simple...like bootfile generation for the SuperIDE, is complex,
> impossible to others. Why? Because I have worked on this computer inside
> and out for most of my life. I am not kidding here. Ask anyone that knows
> me. I don't have time or the desire to make a document that easily explains
> what I have leaned since 1982 when I got my first CoCo.
>
> As Luis says...it works.....understand the beast. Read the manuals, when
> you think you understand them, read them again. Look at the source code.
> Wizard, SuperDriver, HDB-DOS, etc....Boisy has released this to the public.
>
>
> Bottom line, this is no simple task. It is not covered by the 'normal'
> support package of the Cloud-9 products. I have spent the time to learn all
> aspects of HDB-DOS and SuperDriver/NitrOS-9, their partitions and how they
> coexist. SuperDriver is the most complex driver ever written for the CoCo,
> with that power comes complexity.
>
> The next gen controller I hope will be simpler for the end user....Then
> again there will be a lot going on behind the scenes. Almost ready to start
> on the prototype layout as the firmware tests have been proven successful.
> Been writing test cases for over three months now, the basis of this will
> make it to the end product, but the 'real' firmware still needs to be
> written for it.
>
> Hapy CoCoing,
>
> Mark
> http://www.cloud9tech.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Gustavo Ranaur Schoenaker <ranaur at ranaur.net>
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 8:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Coco] SuperIDE and CF Cards
>
>
> Hi,
>
> More information. I tried again, this time cloning the original CF card
> using WinHex (cute program!).
>
> When I load, for example, Calixto Island using the original card the main
> screen is nice ... but when I load with the 4G card I see some strange
> vertical black lines, and if I start the game it freezes with random
> garbage. The same happens in different games (not, it`s not Professor
> Lagarto's fault!). You can see the screenshots here ...
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109465536824672578462/posts/3shmWMwRtL4
>
> I DDed the first 200MB of both cards and diffed the files. No difference.
> Not a single bit. I really don1`t know what is happening. The SuperIDE and
> the computer works fine. I tried on a tandy 2 and a tandy 3. WIth the
> original card, it works very well. I almost cried playing Marble Maze after
> more than 20 years :-).
>
> Is there any size limitation for using CF cards on SuperIDE? Well I know
> nothing about the CF cards internals, but I know (thanks Wikipedia!) it
> emulates an ATA interface. Maybe some cards implements different versions
> of the protocol, and maybe SuperIDE uses a version of the specification
> that doesn't works with this card very well. Who knows?
>
> I guess I have to buy another one ... any suggestions of brands? Kingston?
> Sandisk?
>
> Büller, Büller? Anyone?
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Mark Marlette <mmarlette at frontiernet.net
> >wrote:
>
> > Even with same manufacture, same size card...the firmware will differ at
> > times as well....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Luis Antoniosi (CoCoDemus) <retrocanada76 at gmail.com>
> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 10:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] SuperIDE and CF Cards
> >
> >
> > no I use a generic Voigon 8Gb card.
> >
> > But each CF card has its own emulation of IDE. So try another card.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Gustavo Ranaur Schoenaker <
> > ranaur at ranaur.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm learning how to use the SuperIDE. It is amazing product to use with
> > > coco.
> > >
> > > Now I would like to use another CF card, so I won't mess with the
> > original
> > > one.
> > >
> > > I tried to use a 4Gb Transcend (133x) card. I know I won't use/need
> full
> > > 4GB, but this was the only one I had free.
> > >
> > > I copied the original card with DD command into the new one. It worked,
> > but
> > > eventualy the Color Computer just freezes of starts to display random
> > > garbage. When I use the original card it works flawlessy!
> > >
> > > Which brands of CF cards works with SuperIDE? Would it work with 512MB
> > > Sandisk cards (model SDCFH-512-903)?
> > >
> > > Thank you very much!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Coco mailing list
> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Long live the CoCo
> >
> > --
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> > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >
> > --
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> >
>
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