From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 03:35:53 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:35:53 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM Message-ID: This file: COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC EPROM from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo 3 BASIC ROM but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired and I thought it should at least be preserved as it may be the only one of it's kind. It came from a system that was used by an actual Studio as a MIDI controller using CoCo MIDI Pro, Lyra and UltimuseIII. If anyone has any info on this ROM, it would be greatly appreciated. This EPROM is labeled: MXP-0986 26-334 O/S 8323 12/18/91 I think the 26-334 was actually meant to be 26-3334 (the CoCo 3 catalog number), but on the EPROM label, it was simply: 26-334. I have put the info about it here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom -John From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 03:40:28 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:40:28 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM References: Message-ID: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> Yeah - that link didn't come out right at all - it can be had by visiting: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom Sorry about that guys - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:35 AM Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM > This file: href="http://www.coco3.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91-GIMEchip.com_.zip">COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 > (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC EPROM > from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo 3 BASIC ROM > but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired and I thought it > should at least be preserved as it may be the only one of it's kind. It > came from a system that was used by an actual Studio as a MIDI controller > using CoCo MIDI Pro, Lyra and UltimuseIII. If anyone has any info on this > ROM, it would be greatly appreciated. This EPROM is labeled: > MXP-0986 > 26-334 > O/S 8323 > 12/18/91 > I think the 26-334 was actually meant to be 26-3334 (the CoCo 3 catalog > number), but on the EPROM label, it was simply: 26-334. I have put the > info about it here: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom > -John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 13:38:00 From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 03:53:34 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:53:34 -0500 Subject: [Coco] FOUND: Burke_&_Burke_RSB_Disks Message-ID: After much searching I was able to locate a partial set of RSB. The Disk 1 I do not believe is the actual RSB disk, as it doesn't match the Rainbow Review of this product. Thankfully, however, Disk 2 was the correct disk and is the disk needed to generate the RSB executable file for running DECB under OS-9. This is an Amazing piece of programming. Disk 3 is the result of running Disk 2 and contains RSB ready to run - it was generated by a fellow member of the list from Disk 2 - THANKS MAN! I was beginning to think that RSB was extinct and when I'd almost given up, it landed in my lap. If anyone has the complete set including Disk 1 and the documentation, would you please contact me? I have posted this because Chris Burke released his products as ShareWare (so I've been told & I read it in an archived message as well). And many thanks to the fellow list member who got it working for me. http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/burke__burke_rsb_disks From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 1 06:09:17 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 04:09:17 -0600 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100701100917.GC4616@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 02:35:53AM -0500, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This file: href="http://www.coco3.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91-GIMEchip.com_.zip">COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 > (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC > EPROM from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo > 3 BASIC ROM but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired A customize main ROM? That's really weird. From 91? I believe that's well before anybody put (coco) OS-9 in ROM. Maybe it could be massaged into a .ROM file for the emulators? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 06:38:39 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 05:38:39 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM References: <20100701100917.GC4616@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: Willard, I think it's just a modded coco3 rom - I'm not sure what it does or what the mods are but I had a look at the first few bytes - it's the same at the beginning as the coco3 rom - maybe they just patched some of the coco3 bugs? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willard Goosey" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 5:09 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 02:35:53AM -0500, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: > >> This file: > href="http://www.coco3.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91-GIMEchip.com_.zip">COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 >> (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC >> EPROM from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo >> 3 BASIC ROM but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired > > A customize main ROM? That's really weird. From 91? I believe > that's well before anybody put (coco) OS-9 in ROM. > > Maybe it could be massaged into a .ROM file for the emulators? > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 13:38:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Thu Jul 1 08:47:26 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 08:47:26 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net> If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the final design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare boards through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is another outlet. They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( Gold Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in my opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as 1 square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit of they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that the 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to learn and not near as complex as Eagle. james On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB Express - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some really cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able to build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless they want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and you guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just like to yell Oh Yeah!) - John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From robert.gault at att.net Thu Jul 1 08:42:47 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 08:42:47 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Copy Protection In-Reply-To: <528892775A4549F08830E76B4709F0F2@OstromPC> References: <542AD21E-281A-4999-A300-60113E3930B0@cox.net> <1D00197B13AB447399259969D0307765@OstromPC> <4C296624.5060609@att.net> <528892775A4549F08830E76B4709F0F2@OstromPC> Message-ID: <4C2C8D47.5040809@att.net> Steve Ostrom wrote: > > Robert, so if I just typed "DOS" the program will load and run the same > way? Geez, now I feel really dumb. That means the copy protection was > removed somehow prior to the disk being made. I still wonder what was > used, and how the directory was changed to show center adjusted text > followed by the real directory. That was a sweet touch! I'll use CDM to > examine the directory track in more detail. > > Thanks! > > -- Steve -- > There could still be some form of copy protection on the disk as we don't know what was on track 34 (or elsewhere.) From robert.gault at att.net Thu Jul 1 09:04:19 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:04:19 -0400 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM In-Reply-To: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> References: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C2C9253.1030403@att.net> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Yeah - that link didn't come out right at all - it can be had by visiting: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom > > Sorry about that guys - John John, I went to the above url and compared the ROM in the zip file with other Coco ROMs. It is identical to the stock Coco3 ROM. What was there about the Coco containing this ROM that made you think it was different from the normal Coco3 ROM? From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 10:13:19 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:13:19 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM References: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> <4C2C9253.1030403@att.net> Message-ID: Mainly, just the way that the ROM was labeled. The board arrived to me outside of a CoCo 3 and had that strange Label on the EPROM. It didn't work at all. When I first saw it, I thought it might be some sort of prototype CoCo 3 due to the EPROM, which was soldered directly to the board and the way the GIME looked. I desoldered it and read it in and labeled it as it was labeled. Not just the EPROM, though - the GIME was a 1986 GIME and doesn't look like any other 1986 GIME in the rest of my CoCo 3's, but after I saw the date on the EPROM - I knew it wasn't a prototype. Every chip on the board appears to have also been replaced, but sockets weren't used which is - well I have no word for it - they should have socketed them as they were replaced. Anyway, the GIME doesn't work - I tried it in other CoCo 3's. I have no use for this GIME if you want to have a look at it - I am inclined to believe it was just a different production run than the other 1986 GIME's that I have. If you want it for whatever purpose, I'll mail it to you, thought I doubt it will be of any use. I think it was just made by a different fab than the other GIME's and that it probably really isn't unique - it's made by VTI. If you want it, just send me a mailing address offlist and I'll pop it in the mail. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gault" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM > Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> Yeah - that link didn't come out right at all - it can be had by >> visiting: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom >> >> Sorry about that guys - John > > John, > > I went to the above url and compared the ROM in the zip file with other > Coco > ROMs. It is identical to the stock Coco3 ROM. > > What was there about the Coco containing this ROM that made you think it > was > different from the normal Coco3 ROM? > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 13:38:00 From asa.rand at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 11:08:03 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 08:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Website update - Review time References: <3AD245691575401EA881BECC11BEA72D@asarand> <4C2B71E1.5040306@cox.net> Message-ID: <4D70A8BDF203499499848CB86F0B2882@asarand> OK. I see. My 14" monitor doesn't let me see the entie width of the screen. When I looked the first time, I didn't notice the extra scroll bar. Thanks, Tim and all the others who replied. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fadden" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Website update - Review time > Look more to the right, and you will see a vertical scroll bar. Use it. > There is no problem with the web page. > > Tim > > On 6/30/2010 9:07 AM, Wayne Campbell wrote: >> Brian, >> >> I looked at the page in the link. The bottom of the page seems to have a >> problem. I'm not sure what is causing the problem. I took a screen pic >> and placed it here: >> >> http://cococoding.com/wayne/problem_page.PNG >> >> Wayne >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Blake" >> >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 7:41 AM >> Subject: [Coco] Website update - Review time >> >> >>> It's been a while since I've had the time to update my website with any >>> CoCo >>> activities. I rectified that this morning. >>> >>> I've spent the last month or so playing with various CoCo gadgetry, and >>> have >>> started reviews on a few. The first one out of the gates is Cloud9's >>> HDB-DOS/DriveWire ROM Pak. >>> >>> Here's the link: http://coco.randomrodder.com/reviews.html#hdbdos >>> >>> The next review out of the gate should be Roger's MicroSD Drive Pak. >>> Maybe a >>> week or so unless I get an unexpected break.... >>> >>> Hope some folks find these reviews informative if not a little >>> entertaining... >>> >>> >>> Later, >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 15:17:10 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> References: <201006302251.47706.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <201007011517.10334.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Wednesday 30 June 2010, Little John wrote: >Gene, >I usually generate excellon drill files and gerb274x using EAGLE's default >CAM processor settings. How much would the Drills cost? I could probably >talk my dad into getting them for you. This would be great - It would > allow me to get some of this stuff tested. I release all of my projects > as "open" projects so anybody can use them as they see fit. Prototyping > is getting more difficult for me due to the decline of my eyesight and > this would definitely be a great boon to my projects. >Thanks for all your help - John I'll have to check & get back to you, John. My usual source, Hemley? over in Ohio doesn't have a good selection of engraving type bits, just decent carbide utility stuff at good prices, like a 4 flute upcut TiN coated 1/4" mill at about $12 a copy, flat or ball nosed. I have end mills to about 1/16", with 1/8" shanks, but they are quite fragile because of the 1/2" length of the cutting flutes and will need active mist lube at about 100 psi and 20k rpms more than my spindle can do. Engraving stuff should be 1/8" shanks all the way to the single flute V tip. I might look into the feasibility of side mounting a belt driven higher speed spindle if this should turn out to be too slow. Or maybe even a trim router if I can find a short one that would snuggle in under the gear case. I'll take some measurements with me the next time I hit Lowes & see what they have. FWIW, none of the dremel made tools can be used for something like this because of the poor bit rigidity they all have. It would crawl 1/16" sideways just from the side pressure of moving into the cut. Very poorly made tools even if I have worn out 6 or 8 of them over the last 55 years. So I'll have to look around and see what is available. Today I'm all stove up, overdid it yesterday cutting down and cutting up the bottom 20 feet of a couple of pine trees that failed the high wind test, and getting two dump truck loads of them to the curb for this mornings free pickup. Our pin oak in the front yard mainly survived, and I was told over a beer, by one of the neighbors last night, that I should now be building benches under it since its the only shade tree in the neighborhood that survived. ;-) Under active consideration... > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Heskett" >To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:51 PM >Subject: Re: [Coco] Prototype PCB's > >> On Wednesday 30 June 2010, sales at gimechip.com wrote: >>>Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small >>> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware >>> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB >>> Express - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they >>> accepted Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I >>> don't want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some >>> really cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do >>> eventually release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to >>> be able to build anything I design without having to order it from me >>> (unless they want to). By releasing these things, people can improve >>> them, build their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - >>> It's fun and you guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid >>> man, I just like to yell Oh Yeah!) - John >> >> John, can you get gcode (rs274-d I believe it is) out of Eagle? I have >> a small cnc milling machine that can do about 4"x10" boards max. No >> bits ATM, >> but thats fixable if I can get the bit costs back. Not terribly speedy >> as the spindle is all tapped out at 2500 rpms. >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 >13:38:00 > > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) You are fairminded, just and loving. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 15:34:45 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:34:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday 01 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try > batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the final > design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get > the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare boards > through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is > another outlet. > >They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( Gold > Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . > For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in my > opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as 1 > square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit of > they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that the > 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is > restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service > ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats > with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to learn > and not near as complex as Eagle. > >james > >On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: >> Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small >> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware >> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB Express >> - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted >> Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't >> want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some really >> cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually >> release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able to >> build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless they >> want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build >> their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and you >> guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just like >> to yell Oh Yeah!) - John >> And that lead time is probably faster than I could round up all the stuff, so you might consider that. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 1 17:17:46 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:17:46 -0600 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM In-Reply-To: References: <20100701100917.GC4616@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100701211746.GA5886@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 05:38:39AM -0500, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Willard, I think it's just a modded coco3 rom - I'm not sure what it does > or what the mods are but I had a look at the first few bytes - it's the > same at the beginning as the coco3 rom - maybe they just patched some of > the coco3 bugs? Well, Gault says it's the same as the regular ROM. Which is really strange. Sounds like it was from a weird computer though, so who knows? It would have been cool if there'd been bug fixes, or something like DeKok's Custom BASIC. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From operator at coco3.com Thu Jul 1 21:18:33 2010 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> References: <201006302251.47706.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <20100702011832.B0C6AD4C0E@qs281.pair.com> At 10:30 PM 6/30/2010, you wrote: >Gene, >I usually generate excellon drill files and gerb274x using EAGLE's >default CAM processor settings. How much would the Drills cost? I >could probably talk my dad into getting them for you. This would be >great - It would allow me to get some of this stuff tested. I >release all of my projects as "open" projects so anybody can use >them as they see fit. Prototyping is getting more difficult for me >due to the decline of my eyesight and this would definitely be a >great boon to my projects. >Thanks for all your help - John John, Something odd is happening. I've received about 30 PayPal notices that the same transaction ID keeps getting subitted for a $5 payment, and this has continued since yesterday and occurs at random times. Are you trying to get your link posted in the tag cloud? Please let me know what is going on. -- ~ Roger Taylor From jdaggett at gate.net Fri Jul 2 07:37:48 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 07:37:48 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: , <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C2DCF8C.16680.13BC2F@jdaggett.gate.net> On 1 Jul 2010 at 15:34, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Thursday 01 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > >If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try > > batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the final > > design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get > > the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare boards > > through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is > > another outlet. > > > >They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( Gold > > Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . > > For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in my > > opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as 1 > > square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit of > > they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that the > > 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is > > restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service > > ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats > > with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to learn > > and not near as complex as Eagle. > > > >james > > > >On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: > >> Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small > >> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware > >> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB Express > >> - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted > >> Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't > >> want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some really > >> cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually > >> release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able to > >> build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless they > >> want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build > >> their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and you > >> guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just like > >> to yell Oh Yeah!) - John > >> > > And that lead time is probably faster than I could round up all the stuff, > so you might consider that. > I deal with mostly surface mount Technology, If I go out with a board with pads for a new device in my library then I make sure the part is on hand before the board goes out. I print a 1x scale of the layout and verify the part and the layout match. On through hole designs that can be done with little chance of an error. james From random.rodder at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 13:08:28 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:08:28 -0400 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 In-Reply-To: <238844465.751159.1277844499416.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <238844465.751159.1277844499416.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Mark, I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first MPI from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you piggybacked on IC5... http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette wrote: > John, > > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added as > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. > > Is she drinking again? :) > > Regards, > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sales at gimechip.com > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it can > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried GAL > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers installed > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building > things -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > John, > > > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) > > > > A few observations on your procedure. > > > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the mod > > after it was installed. > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install both? > > > > A good training exercise. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the > 26-3124 > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper wires. > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. > > -John > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 > 13:35:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Fri Jul 2 14:55:14 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:55:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Brian, Depending on when the mod was put in, I have enhanced the installation. I don't have the info in front of me right now. The IC could very well be an inhouse chip, ie: coded. It is a 74ls10. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Blake To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:08:28 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 Mark, I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first MPI from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you piggybacked on IC5... http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette wrote: > John, > > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added as > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. > > Is she drinking again? :) > > Regards, > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sales at gimechip.com > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it can > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried GAL > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers installed > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building > things -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > John, > > > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) > > > > A few observations on your procedure. > > > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the mod > > after it was installed. > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install both? > > > > A good training exercise. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the > 26-3124 > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper wires. > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. > > -John > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 > 13:35:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From random.rodder at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 15:29:36 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:29:36 -0400 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 In-Reply-To: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: If I had to guess, based on what was told to me, I'd say the upgrade time was late '04 or early '05. If I'm not mistaken, he bought a 512k CoCo3 from you about the same time - have to dig out the papers to be sure and not clue where those are at, lol. The coded IC would make sense as the one used in the upgrade is 16 pins and a 74LS10 is 14 pins. I used one of John's GAL upgrades; it works fine so far. I want to try the 74LS10 just for the helluvit... On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Mark Marlette wrote: > Brian, > > Depending on when the mod was put in, I have enhanced the installation. > > I don't have the info in front of me right now. > > The IC could very well be an inhouse chip, ie: coded. It is a 74ls10. > > Regards, > > Mark > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Blake > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:08:28 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > Mark, > > I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first > MPI > from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 > was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you > piggybacked on IC5... > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg > > The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it > doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette >wrote: > > > John, > > > > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added > as > > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. > > > > Is she drinking again? :) > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: > > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it > can > > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried > GAL > > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be > > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more > > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun > > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers > installed > > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building > > things -John > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Marlette" > > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) > > > > > > A few observations on your procedure. > > > > > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. > > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the > mod > > > after it was installed. > > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install > both? > > > > > > A good training exercise. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) > > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the > > 26-3124 > > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: > > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 > > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper > wires. > > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the > > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. > > > -John > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 > > 13:35:00 > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 17:55:04 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:55:04 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's References: <201006302251.47706.gene.heskett@gmail.com><61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> <20100702011832.B0C6AD4C0E@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <6BBA8BCFB0094F9ABC0337929909CB4B@hackersafa71ff> Roger - I have no idea - I just sent a $5 donation a day or so ago, but nothing strange about it - I used the "Tip The Jar" on your site. I've only "tipped the jar" twice so it shouldn't keep sending notices. Maybe paypal is freaking out? I'll log into my account and see. I try to send $5 whenever I can - I figure every little bit helps. My internet was off late yesterday until today - they were digging a water line and dug through the line. It's fixed now, so I'm back online. Let me go see if I can figure out what's happening at paypal - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Taylor" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Prototype PCB's > At 10:30 PM 6/30/2010, you wrote: >>Gene, >>I usually generate excellon drill files and gerb274x using EAGLE's >>default CAM processor settings. How much would the Drills cost? I >>could probably talk my dad into getting them for you. This would be >>great - It would allow me to get some of this stuff tested. I >>release all of my projects as "open" projects so anybody can use >>them as they see fit. Prototyping is getting more difficult for me >>due to the decline of my eyesight and this would definitely be a >>great boon to my projects. >>Thanks for all your help - John > > > John, > > Something odd is happening. I've received about 30 PayPal notices > that the same transaction ID keeps getting subitted for a $5 payment, > and this has continued since yesterday and occurs at random > times. Are you trying to get your link posted in the tag cloud? > > Please let me know what is going on. > > > > -- > ~ Roger Taylor > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 19:38:47 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:38:47 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's References: , <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C2DCF8C.16680.13BC2F@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: The place I use for production includes a stencil free if needed for surface mount parts. It makes it easier, but my eyes are not what they were this time last year... Dad is hooking me up a big magnifier to the bench so I can keep working on this stuff. I have the best dad in the world :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Prototype PCB's > On 1 Jul 2010 at 15:34, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Thursday 01 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >> >If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try >> > batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the >> > final >> > design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get >> > the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare >> > boards >> > through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is >> > another outlet. >> > >> >They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( >> >Gold >> > Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . >> > For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in >> > my >> > opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as >> > 1 >> > square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit >> > of >> > they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that >> > the >> > 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is >> > restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service >> > ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats >> > with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to >> > learn >> > and not near as complex as Eagle. >> > >> >james >> > >> >On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: >> >> Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in >> >> small >> >> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware >> >> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB >> >> Express >> >> - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted >> >> Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't >> >> want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some >> >> really >> >> cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually >> >> release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able >> >> to >> >> build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless >> >> they >> >> want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build >> >> their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and >> >> you >> >> guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just >> >> like >> >> to yell Oh Yeah!) - John >> >> >> >> And that lead time is probably faster than I could round up all the >> stuff, >> so you might consider that. >> > > > I deal with mostly surface mount Technology, If I go out with a board with > pads for a new > device in my library then I make sure the part is on hand before the board > goes out. I print a > 1x scale of the layout and verify the part and the layout match. > > On through hole designs that can be done with little chance of an error. > > james > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 19:45:15 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:45:15 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 References: <238844465.751159.1277844499416.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Here is another example of the 74LS10 upgrade: http://onlyonsaturdaynight.com/CoCoZilla/mpi3124.html The purpose of piggybacking the 74LS10 I.C. is to provide power to the 74LS10, so there are several I.C.'s that could be used for the piggyback operation. As Mark has stated, that is a 74LS10, just numbered differently. There are ECG and NTE equivalents as well as house numbered devices of the chip, etc. (also as Mark stated.) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Blake" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > Mark, > > I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first > MPI > from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 > was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you > piggybacked on IC5... > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg > > The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it > doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette > wrote: > >> John, >> >> I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added >> as >> I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. >> >> Is she drinking again? :) >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: sales at gimechip.com >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> >> Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: >> If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it >> can >> fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried >> GAL >> (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be >> unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more >> difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun >> coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers >> installed >> so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building >> things -John >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Marlette" >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> >> >> > John, >> > >> > I have done a few of these mods.... :) >> > >> > A few observations on your procedure. >> > >> > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. >> > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the >> > mod >> > after it was installed. >> > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install >> > both? >> > >> > A good training exercise. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: sales at gimechip.com >> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) >> > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > >> > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the >> 26-3124 >> > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: >> > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 >> > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper >> > wires. >> > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the >> > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. >> > -John >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 >> 13:35:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 23:08:37 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 22:08:37 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 References: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Brian, I just noticed that you said the chip used in this particular upgrade is 16 pins - and so can't be a 74ls10. The picture is kind of blurred and I can't make out the part number. Could you tell me how the chip is numbered? Obviously, the 74LS10 isn't the only way to upgrade the MPI - basically, you just change the addresseing based on A7, as well as CTS* and SLENB* so there are numerous different ways to obtain the same result. The reason that I used the 16V8 gal is that it was just easier for me and my lame eyesight to work with :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Blake" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > If I had to guess, based on what was told to me, I'd say the upgrade time > was late '04 or early '05. If I'm not mistaken, he bought a 512k CoCo3 > from > you about the same time - have to dig out the papers to be sure and not > clue > where those are at, lol. > > The coded IC would make sense as the one used in the upgrade is 16 pins > and > a 74LS10 is 14 pins. > > I used one of John's GAL upgrades; it works fine so far. I want to try the > 74LS10 just for the helluvit... > > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Mark Marlette > wrote: > >> Brian, >> >> Depending on when the mod was put in, I have enhanced the installation. >> >> I don't have the info in front of me right now. >> >> The IC could very well be an inhouse chip, ie: coded. It is a 74ls10. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Brian Blake >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:08:28 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> >> Mark, >> >> I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first >> MPI >> from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what >> Cloud9 >> was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like >> you >> piggybacked on IC5... >> >> http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg >> >> The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it >> doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette > >wrote: >> >> > John, >> > >> > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added >> as >> > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. >> > >> > Is she drinking again? :) >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: sales at gimechip.com >> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) >> > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > >> > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: >> > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it >> can >> > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried >> GAL >> > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be >> > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more >> > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have >> > fun >> > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers >> installed >> > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building >> > things -John >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Mark Marlette" >> > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM >> > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > >> > >> > > John, >> > > >> > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) >> > > >> > > A few observations on your procedure. >> > > >> > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. >> > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the >> mod >> > > after it was installed. >> > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install >> both? >> > > >> > > A good training exercise. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > >> > > Mark >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: sales at gimechip.com >> > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) >> > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > > >> > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the >> > 26-3124 >> > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: >> > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 >> > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper >> wires. >> > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with >> > > the >> > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a >> > > 16v8. >> > > -John >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Coco mailing list >> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Coco mailing list >> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: >> > 06/28/10 >> > 13:35:00 >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 3 19:12:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 18:12:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends Message-ID: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed up and posted by tomorrow. Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that crop up. Your Friend - Lil' John From badfrog at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 21:57:59 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 20:57:59 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: Somebody please make one so I can buy it. :) On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. > > It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com > > Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed up and posted by tomorrow. > > Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that crop up. > > Your Friend - Lil' John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 3 22:18:08 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 21:18:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: If there is enough interest, I will have some boards made. The buffer PCB will cost me about $20 each in lots of 10. I haven't calculated the cost of the slot board yet. The slot board is designed so that each slot can be either a standard CoCo edge card socket OR a 40-pin header. I have negotiated the purchase of 1000 coco cart sockets, I should have them soon. I have also designed it so that each slot has an added header that makes a few additional things available (such as 3.3V). I am working on getting the slot board ready to upload to CoCo3.com. Now, anyone who wants to take the time to debug the design and make some and sell them - go ahead - I don't do this for profit - I do this for you folks. Now, I haven't tested the design yet and it was designed in less than 9 hours, so bugs likely exist. By posting it, I hope others will be able to catch design flaws :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > Somebody please make one so I can buy it. :) > > > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: >> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >> >> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >> >> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >> up and posted by tomorrow. >> >> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that >> crop up. >> >> Your Friend - Lil' John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2980 - Release Date: 07/03/10 13:35:00 From snhirsch at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 09:00:06 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On a side note, how big was the file you could not load with DriveWire > 4? The only size limit *should* be available ram, but for very large > images you may need to give the virtual machine more room with a > command line argument to java: > > java -Xmx512m > > for example to grant 512MB ram to the process. Aaron, I finally got back to trying the problem disk image. Increasing the memory setting as you suggested did not work. It fails with the following when trying to mount a 128MB image found in one of the older Yahoo group zip files (I'm not trying to boot the image, simply to access it): hirsch at duo:/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01$ java -Xmx512m -jar DriveWire.jar 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwserver-1 ] wireserver.DriveWireServer: DriveWire Server 3.9.57 (06/05/2010) starting up 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwserver-1 ] wireserver.DriveWireServer: reading config from 'config.xml' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwserver-1 ] uration.ConfigurationUtils: ConfigurationUtils.locate(): base is null, name is config.xml 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwserver-1 ] uration.ConfigurationUtils: Loading configuration from the path config.xml 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwserver-1 ] wireserver.DriveWireServer: Starting protocol handler #0: DriveWire4 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] lhandler.DWProtocolHandler: handler #0: starting... 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwUIserver-10 ] drivewireserver.DWUIThread: run 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: init /dev/ttyUSB0 for handler #0 (logging bytes: false) 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dskwriter-9 ] olhandler.DWDiskLazyWriter: started, write interval is 15000 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: attempting to open device '/dev/ttyUSB0' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: Note: RXTX Version mismatch here is not a problem... 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwUIserver-10 ] drivewireserver.DWUIThread: UI listening on port 6800 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwUIserver-10 ] drivewireserver.DWUIThread: UI waiting for connection Experimental: JNI_OnLoad called. WARNING: RXTX Version mismatch Jar version = RXTX-2.2pre1 native lib Version = RXTX-2.1-7 RXTX Warning: Removing stale lock file. /var/lock/LCK..ttyUSB0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: setting port params to 460800 8N1 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: succesfully opened /dev/ttyUSB0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] otocolhandler.DWDiskDrives: disk drives init for handler #0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] otocolhandler.DWDiskDrives: loading diskset 'dw4boot-6809l2-becker' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] .apache.commons.vfs.VfsLog: Using "/tmp/vfs_cache" as temporary files store. 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] fs.cache.SoftRefFilesCache: putFile: file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: New DWDisk for '/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: read 2221 sectors from 'file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] otocolhandler.DWDiskDrives: loaded disk 'file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk' in drive 0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] fs.cache.SoftRefFilesCache: putFile: file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/coco3fpga_old_os9.dsk 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: New DWDisk for '/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/coco3fpga_old_os9.dsk' Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 222880 at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.(DWDisk.java:44) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDiskDrives.LoadDiskFromFile(DWDiskDrives.java:145) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDiskDrives.LoadDiskSet(DWDiskDrives.java:73) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWProtocolHandler.run(DWProtocolHandler.java:182) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619) -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 09:19:53 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: New > DWDisk for '/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/coco3fpga_old_os9.dsk' > > Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: > 222880 > at > com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) Ding! Here's the problem: ----------------------- cut here -------------- public class DWDisk { ... public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 bits? .... private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; ---------------------------------------------- Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. I'll try bumping that up and rebuilding. Steve -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 09:56:14 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >> Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: >> 222880 >> at >> com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) > > Ding! Here's the problem: > > ----------------------- cut here -------------- > > public class DWDisk { > > ... > > public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 > bits? > > .... > > private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. I'll try > bumping that up and rebuilding. Ok, I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. With all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to use a lot of memory. Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? That might be a more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. -- From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 4 11:55:14 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , Message-ID: Hi! Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? Thank you Jorge Machin _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 16:18:40 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:18:40 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >>> >>> Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" >>> java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 222880 >>> ? ? ? at >>> com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) >> >> Ding! ?Here's the problem: >> >> ----------------------- cut here -------------- >> >> public class DWDisk { >> >> ... >> >> public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 >> bits? >> >> .... >> >> private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> >> Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. ?I'll try >> bumping that up and rebuilding You'll find that many settings are "hard coded". This is typical of code I plan to replace and do not want to expose a setting into the config which will become unnecessary. Plan on doing simple edits to the source if you want to experiment. > > Ok, ?I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. With > all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to use a > lot of memory. > > Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? ?That might be a > more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. > I originally wrote it to use memory mapped files. That works OK for local things, but when you consider that we can mount disks from web sites, ftp sites, via ssh, even from inside a zipped tar file on a remote server... there has to be some cache to contain the image. Some protocols/mechanisms simply do not allow random access, and performance on things like web disks without a local cache can be miserable. I'm not happy with the current solution to this problem, which is an in memory array of sector objects (the sector data and some control info used by the lazy writer). Feel free to implement an improved version, but let me know if you do, since I'll probably be rewriting it myself someday otherwise. > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 16:31:44 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:31:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote: > > Hi! > > > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? > > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They work in level 1. > > > > Thank you > > > > Jorge Machin > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From lothan at newsguy.com Sun Jul 4 16:32:55 2010 From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:32:55 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can be allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Hirsch" > On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> Ding! Here's the problem: >> >> ----------------------- cut here -------------- >> >> public class DWDisk { >> >> ... >> >> public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 >> bits? >> >> .... >> >> private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> >> Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. I'll try >> bumping that up and rebuilding. > > Ok, I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. > With all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to > use a lot of memory. > > Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? That might be a > more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 16:46:32 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:46:32 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Lothan wrote: > Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps > List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for > each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the > array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can be > allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. > It's been a while... IIRC the reason I didn't use a dynamic sized type is that the CoCo can request or write to any sector at any time, and there didn't seem to be any elegant way to do sparse arrays... maybe a hash on sector number would work. There may be other reasons that I'm not remembering, of course a List would be much nicer so I'm hoping I had a good reason not to use it :) I will revisit this entire section at some point. I do appreciate the suggestions. There are a number of areas in the DW4 server that are "less than awesome". In many cases one thing was written quickly to support another that I simply found more interesting and spent more time on. If you guys want to take a look at the code and make improvements or even just offer ideas, great! > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Steven Hirsch" > >> On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >>> Ding! ?Here's the problem: >>> >>> ----------------------- cut here -------------- >>> >>> public class DWDisk { >>> >>> ... >>> >>> public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 >>> bits? >>> >>> .... >>> >>> private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. ?I'll try >>> bumping that up and rebuilding. >> >> Ok, ?I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. >> With all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to >> use a lot of memory. >> >> Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? ?That might be a >> more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sun Jul 4 17:34:39 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:34:39 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 04:31:44PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra > wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow > > NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program > > in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? > > > > > > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They > work in level 1. Then set /t1 and the terminal to 3008N1 and either "shell <>>> /t1" or "tsmon /t1". The bitbanger isn't very fast, and it hogs the CPU. Try to scrounge up a real rs-232 pak. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 4 17:42:32 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:42:32 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , , , , <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: Thank you. Do I need to use the same modules (scbbt and scbbt_t1 ) if I use a real rs-232 pak? Jorge Machin > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:34:39 -0600 > From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org > To: coco at maltedmedia.com > Subject: Re: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session > > On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 04:31:44PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow > > > NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program > > > in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? > > > > > > > > > > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They > > work in level 1. > > Then set /t1 and the terminal to 3008N1 and either "shell <>>> /t1" or > "tsmon /t1". > > The bitbanger isn't very fast, and it hogs the CPU. Try to scrounge > up a real rs-232 pak. > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 17:54:09 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 17:54:09 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote: > > Thank you. Do I need to use the same modules (scbbt and scbbt_t1 ) if I use a real rs-232 pak? > the bbt modules are for the bit banger. also I gave you the name wrong, its t1_scbbt. use sc6551 and tX_sc6551 for a serial pak, otherwise its the same. you can find which modules support what hardware by reading through the "standard.bl" file found in NITROS9/6809l2/bootlists on a standard 80 track nitros9 disk. it is well commented. > > > Jorge Machin > >> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:34:39 -0600 >> From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org >> To: coco at maltedmedia.com >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session >> >> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 04:31:44PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi! >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow >> > > NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program >> > > in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? >> > > >> > > >> > >> > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They >> > work in level 1. >> >> Then set /t1 and the terminal to 3008N1 and either "shell <>>> /t1" or >> "tsmon /t1". >> >> The bitbanger isn't very fast, and it hogs the CPU. Try to scrounge >> up a real rs-232 pak. >> >> Willard >> -- >> Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org >> Socorro, New Mexico, USA >> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. >> -- R.E. Howard >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Jul 4 18:09:31 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:09:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> First A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while powered up. Second why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on the dip switches and you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. Third What is the function of Q1? Fourth Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that are tied at but just a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large plane on both sides is GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise immunity. Either use one ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs experience in PC layout and design of portable electronics. SO these questions do come from someone that has experience and questions about the design. james On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. > > It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com > > Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed up and posted by tomorrow. > > Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that crop up. > > Your Friend - Lil' John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sun Jul 4 19:05:24 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 09:05:24 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: <4C3113B4.5060607@iinet.net.au> Aaron Wolfe wrote: > There are a number of areas in the > DW4 server that are "less than awesome". LOL! OK a heads-up Aaron, I'm going to use that one at some point! :P Reminds me of the dream sequence in Kung Fu Panda. "There is no charge... for awesomeness!" Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From gene.heskett at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 19:16:24 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 19:16:24 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Sunday 04 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >First > >A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and > the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while powered up. > >Second > >why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > the dip switches and you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to > frustration. > >Third > >What is the function of Q1? > >Fourth > >Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > are tied at but just a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 > and then this large plane on both sides is GND. You also have fingers > that are floating that is bad for noise immunity. Either use one ground > or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 volts in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. >just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. > >By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs > experience in PC layout and design of portable electronics. SO these > questions do come from someone that has experience and questions about > the design. > >james > >On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >> >> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot- >>mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-malt >>edmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >> >> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >> up and posted by tomorrow. >> >> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any >> that crop up. >> >> Your Friend - Lil' John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) "My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!" "Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" -- Doonesbury From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 09:21:36 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 09:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Lothan wrote: >> Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps >> List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for >> each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the >> array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can be >> allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. >> > > It's been a while... IIRC the reason I didn't use a dynamic sized > type is that the CoCo can request or write to any sector at any time, > and there didn't seem to be any elegant way to do sparse arrays... > maybe a hash on sector number would work. There may be other reasons > that I'm not remembering, of course a List would be much nicer so I'm > hoping I had a good reason not to use it :) I will revisit this > entire section at some point. Why not an array of references to (lazily) heap-allocated sector buffers? If the sector is never accessed you only waste one pointer per image sector. Worst case, you'll be slightly worse off than the current architecture. I understand the point in your earlier note about remote images, but hopefully these would tend to be small and could continue to be read in their entirety up front. Steve -- From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 09:40:10 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:40:10 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff><4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <77C7BE8CFA0F4ACBA24FEDD76D21B22D@hackersafa71ff> Part 2 is here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-2-of-3-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com I'll go over it again and try to fix problems pointed out. I have no degree (yet anyway - would like to go to school for this stuff). Basically I've got three years of playing with the vintage computers that dad gave me and the knowledge that dad has passed on to me over the years, plus tons of reading. Anyway, this thing may not work - but - there is enough information here so that someone could make a better design. The MPI circuitry is actually an amazingly simple design - I think the wheel might be one of the few designs that are simpler than the MPI (that is a joke). The whole thing could be stuck into the smallest of CPLD's. I may eventually do that. Anyway - point out the problems and I'll try to fix them. It keeps me going. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On Sunday 04 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >>First >> >>A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are >> running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and >> the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while powered up. >> >>Second >> >>why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on >> the dip switches and you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to >> frustration. >> >>Third >> >>What is the function of Q1? >> >>Fourth >> >>Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that >> are tied at but just a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 >> and then this large plane on both sides is GND. You also have fingers >> that are floating that is bad for noise immunity. Either use one ground >> or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. >> > TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to > add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground > bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 > volts > in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. > >>just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. >> >>By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs >> experience in PC layout and design of portable electronics. SO these >> questions do come from someone that has experience and questions about >> the design. >> >>james >> >>On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >>> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >>> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >>> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >>> >>> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >>> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >>> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot- >>>mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-malt >>>edmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >>> >>> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >>> up and posted by tomorrow. >>> >>> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any >>> that crop up. >>> >>> Your Friend - Lil' John >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >>-- >>Coco mailing list >>Coco at maltedmedia.com >>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > "My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!" > "Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" > -- Doonesbury > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2982 - Release Date: 07/04/10 13:35:00 From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 10:01:21 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? Message-ID: Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this out for the life of me. Steve -- From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 10:05:45 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 09:05:45 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look see: > First > > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > running a stock > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the > board > becomes detached while powered up. > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. > Second > > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > the dip switches and > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. > If I build it, I'll know what the DIP swicthes do. But again easily fixed - jumper wires instead of the DIP switches if you don't want the DIP switches. > Third > > What is the function of Q1? > It is supposed to tell the ATX power supply to switch on when the CoCo Powers on - this was stated in the text. However, this is pretty lame - A reed relay might have been better or just a switch to turn the darned thing on. Yeah - the switch probably would be best. > Fourth > > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > are tied at but just > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large > plane on both sides is > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise > immunity. Either use one > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. I did use only one ground - the GND/1 is the Library Name for the Ground Symbol that I have chosen - ALL Grounds in the schematic are electrically tied to the GND net name. This can be seen if you load it up in EAGLE and right click to get the properties of any GND connection - they are all tied to GND. If you find any more problems - fire away - it'll help me fix this right up. I'm just a hobbyist - no formal training, so this design MUST be SCRUTINIZED thoroughly in order to work out all of the bugs. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > First > > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > running a stock > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the > board > becomes detached while powered up. > > Second > > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > the dip switches and > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. > > Third > > What is the function of Q1? > > Fourth > > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > are tied at but just > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large > plane on both sides is > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise > immunity. Either use one > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. > > By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs > experience in PC layout > and design of portable electronics. SO these questions do come from > someone that has > experience and questions about the design. > > james > On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >> >> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >> >> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >> up and posted by tomorrow. >> >> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that >> crop up. >> >> Your Friend - Lil' John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2981 - Release Date: 07/04/10 01:35:00 From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 11:40:20 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 01:40:20 +1000 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Steven Hirsch wrote: > Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this > out for the life of me. "Use the source, Luke!" What key are you looking for? Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 5 11:06:20 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:06:20 +0100 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look see: >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If >> you are running a stock >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E >> if the board >> becomes detached while powered up. >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different in the CoCo 3. Cheers. Phill. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 11:48:18 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:48:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C31FEC2.25591.8339DF@jdaggett.gate.net> On 4 Jul 2010 at 19:16, Gene Heskett wrote: > TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to > add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground > bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 volts > in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. For some reason some think that the more ground the better. That is not always the truth. In some layouts you get fingers of ground that lies between runners that tend to float or are tied to a ground at one end. These are more potentially bothersome than no ground fill at all. Putting ground in on a two layer board has to be done with some thoughts. I find it is always best to route power and ground first. Then signals. trying to move the power and ground as little as possible. james From farna at att.net Mon Jul 5 11:53:05 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:53:05 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Message-ID: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> I've just got one question: what the heck are you going to do with EIGHT slots? 3-4 should be plenty. The last slot board that was built and sold (by a third party) only had three for the most common items (under OS-9 anyway) -- floppy controller, hard drive controller, and RS-232 pak. I can see a fourth for miscellaneous items or a ROM pak -- maybe a wireless pak now, though I'd think that the wireless or a drivewire pak would replace a hard drive. But eight???? Can your design be easily pared down to four slots? Might be more practical for most. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 12:06:12 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: > Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this out >> for the life of me. > > "Use the source, Luke!" > > What key are you looking for? I believe it's "Insert"? I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes in there somewhere. Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone would know this off the top of their heads. Steve -- From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 12:40:22 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:40:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, Message-ID: <4C320AF6.15300.B2E6D4@jdaggett.gate.net> On 5 Jul 2010 at 9:05, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look > see: > > > First > > > > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > > running a stock > > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the > > board > > becomes detached while powered up. > > > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the main > board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, especially if it were > knocked sideways - zap. > Yes that is true. The MC6809 does not like to drive large capacitive loads. The additional runner lenghts and connectors add capacitance that degrades noise immunity and potentially damaging current transients during witching. Frankly I am not surprised that the original MPI has more problems. The duffers should have been on the inside of the Coco and not on the MPI side. > > Second > > > > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > > the dip switches and > > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. > > > If I build it, I'll know what the DIP swicthes do. But again easily fixed - > jumper wires instead of the DIP switches if you don't want the DIP switches. > True. Still the E clock line should feed directly to the slot connectors from the buffer. No jumpers or any switches. > > Third > > > > What is the function of Q1? > > > It is supposed to tell the ATX power supply to switch on when the CoCo > Powers on - this was stated in the text. However, this is pretty lame - A > reed relay might have been better or just a switch to turn the darned thing > on. Yeah - the switch probably would be best. > Okay that makes sense. Did not realize that you are powering this off an ATX supply. > > Fourth > > > > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > > are tied at but just > > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large > > plane on both sides is > > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise > > immunity. Either use one > > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > > > > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. > > I did use only one ground - the GND/1 is the Library Name for the Ground > Symbol that I have chosen - ALL Grounds in the schematic are electrically > tied to the GND net name. This can be seen if you load it up in EAGLE and > right click to get the properties of any GND connection - they are all tied > to GND. > They are? Why then highlighting the plane states GND and the runner from runner CN2 is GND1. That means you have two grounds and they are tied together at some other point on the board. At least I would not do it that way. If they are supposed to be one then make them one. Not two and then use some etch someplace on the board to tie them togeter unless you intend to do a star connection. If tha twas your intent the star point should be where the board make ground connections to the outide world. Not internal to the board. > If you find any more problems - fire away - it'll help me fix this right up. > I'm just a hobbyist - no formal training, so this design MUST be SCRUTINIZED > thoroughly in order to work out all of the bugs. -John > If i find time to do a more in depth review I may. Right now I have more important things to do. james From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 12:44:41 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:44:41 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer In-Reply-To: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> References: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> Message-ID: <8FE81C38-5899-4C90-865B-6009C2BA844A@gmail.com> Maybe it's just me, but, I could easily use more than 4 slots. Currently, I've got my MPI loaded with a serial pack, sd drive pack, hdb-dos pack and a floppy controller. I still have an O90, S/S cart, The Voice and various ROM packs. Granted, not all have to be used at once, but, I think a unit that offers more than 4 slots would come in handy considering the new pack based hardware that's been developed. Sent from Brian's iPhone On Jul 5, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Frank Swygert wrote: > I've just got one question: what the heck are you going to do with > EIGHT slots? 3-4 should be plenty. The last slot board that was > built and sold (by a third party) only had three for the most common > items (under OS-9 anyway) -- floppy controller, hard drive > controller, and RS-232 pak. I can see a fourth for miscellaneous > items or a ROM pak -- maybe a wireless pak now, though I'd think > that the wireless or a drivewire pak would replace a hard drive. But > eight???? Can your design be easily pared down to four slots? Might > be more practical for most. > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://www.amc-mag.com > (free download available!) > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From cwgordon at carolina.rr.com Mon Jul 5 13:19:59 2010 From: cwgordon at carolina.rr.com (CW Gordon) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:19:59 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco Message-ID: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but is it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 14:45:32 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: > >> Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this out >>> for the life of me. >> >> "Use the source, Luke!" >> >> What key are you looking for? > > I believe it's "Insert"? I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I were > there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes in > there somewhere. Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone would > know this off the top of their heads. Ack, sorry. It's "Clear", not Insert. Still cannot figure out where this might be mapped. -- From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 14:54:44 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C31FEC2.25591.8339DF@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Oh, I see what you're saying now - I just let eagle automatically do the ground planes - not because I'm lazy, oh wait, yeah - I am lazy :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 4 Jul 2010 at 19:16, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to >> add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground >> bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 >> volts >> in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. > > For some reason some think that the more ground the better. That is not > always the truth. > > In some layouts you get fingers of ground that lies between runners that > tend to float or are > tied to a ground at one end. These are more potentially bothersome than no > ground fill at all. > > Putting ground in on a two layer board has to be done with some thoughts. > I find it is always > best to route power and ground first. Then signals. trying to move the > power and ground as > little as possible. > > james > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 14:58:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:58:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer References: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> Message-ID: <08A525CBCFFF47B3869AAB52D5F9A5B9@hackersafa71ff> Sure - 4 slots are easy: use 4 rather than 1 of 8 decoders to route CTS* and SCS* and use a 4 to 1 mux rather than an 8 to 1 to route CART*. That's pretty much it to make a 4-slot interface. All four slots of my tandy unit are occupied and I don't even have a cloud-9 SCSI or IDE yet - so I figured if it can happen to me, perhaps others might have the same situation. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Swygert" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer > I've just got one question: what the heck are you going to do with EIGHT > slots? 3-4 should be plenty. The last slot board that was built and sold > (by a third party) only had three for the most common items (under OS-9 > anyway) -- floppy controller, hard drive controller, and RS-232 pak. I > can see a fourth for miscellaneous items or a ROM pak -- maybe a > wireless pak now, though I'd think that the wireless or a drivewire pak > would replace a hard drive. But eight???? Can your design be easily > pared down to four slots? Might be more practical for most. > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://www.amc-mag.com > (free download available!) > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 15:09:37 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 15:09:37 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer In-Reply-To: <08A525CBCFFF47B3869AAB52D5F9A5B9@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> <08A525CBCFFF47B3869AAB52D5F9A5B9@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <201007051509.37927.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday 05 July 2010, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >Sure - 4 slots are easy: use 4 rather than 1 of 8 decoders to route CTS* > and SCS* and use a 4 to 1 mux rather than an 8 to 1 to route CART*. > That's pretty much it to make a 4-slot interface. All four slots of my > tandy unit are occupied and I don't even have a cloud-9 SCSI or IDE yet - > so I figured if it can happen to me, perhaps others might have the same > situation. -John I suspect that more of us do need more slots than don't. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) He gave her a look that you could have poured on a waffle. From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 15:10:38 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:10:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C31FEC2.25591.8339DF@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <3CAE8D2470AC477DAD11FBEC8EACBEB2@hackersafa71ff> Hah- you're right - I ACCIDENTALLY named the GND pins of the cart plug GND1 instead of GND when I entered their net name - a typo - so that is a serious mistake that you've located. Easily fixed though - I just have to rename that sucker to GND and reroute the board. Thanks James - John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 4 Jul 2010 at 19:16, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to >> add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground >> bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 >> volts >> in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. > > For some reason some think that the more ground the better. That is not > always the truth. > > In some layouts you get fingers of ground that lies between runners that > tend to float or are > tied to a ground at one end. These are more potentially bothersome than no > ground fill at all. > > Putting ground in on a two layer board has to be done with some thoughts. > I find it is always > best to route power and ground first. Then signals. trying to move the > power and ground as > little as possible. > > james > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 14:46:14 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:46:14 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <4C322876.3255.1261FF5@jdaggett.gate.net> On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : > > > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look see: > >> > >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If > >> you are running a stock > >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E > >> if the board > >> becomes detached while powered up. > >> > > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. > > I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E > any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a > Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional > plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall > killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. > > Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different > in the CoCo 3. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS depletion loads are ot designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one output, all the current is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry determines the amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o TTL load (~2.4 mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port will no longer function properly. In any case you have been lucky. I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered with a LS245. So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled high through some resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. The resistors along with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus enough of the damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. Transients can cause latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. james From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 15:43:09 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <4C322876.3255.1261FF5@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: James, That is why I didn't put the 245 on the buffer board since the CoCo has one right at the cart connector - I figured it would be okay. I did however, once fry a CoCo3 when I was only 3 years old - I bumped the computer which wiggled the MPI in the slot and poof - nothing but a green screen. Dad fixed it in like 15 minutes - it fried the 74LS245 on the CoCo3 mobo - thankfully the CPU survived (dad didn't have a spare back then). I am going to redo this whole thing this evening from scratch and fix everything that you pointed out (I did accidentally create a GND1 signal when I net named the GND pin of the cartridge connector - it was a typo that ended up creating a secondary GND - I would have missed it had you not pointed it out). That is why I post this stuff - not just as gifts to the CoCo community, but so you guys can catch my screw-ups. Once I (and the rest of you guys) are satsified with the design, I may put it into a single CPLD. The only problem is that my poor eyesight keeps me from soldering surface mount easily - dad can do it though - he uses a hoof-tip and vertical drag soldering with excellent results. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : >> >> > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a >> > look see: >> >> >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If >> >> you are running a stock >> >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E >> >> if the board >> >> becomes detached while powered up. >> >> >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the >> > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, >> > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. >> >> I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E >> any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a >> Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional >> plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall >> killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. >> >> Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different >> in the CoCo 3. >> >> Cheers. >> >> Phill. >> > > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS > depletion loads are ot > designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one > output, all the current > is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry > determines the > amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o > TTL load (~2.4 > mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port > will no longer function > properly. In any case you have been lucky. > > I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered > with a LS245. > So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled > high through some > resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. > The resistors along > with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus > enough of the > damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. > Transients can cause > latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. > > james > > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 15:59:26 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:59:26 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C320AF6.15300.B2E6D4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Understood - the things that I have read that you are working on promise to be Amazing Feats of Genius :-). -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 5 Jul 2010 at 9:05, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look >> see: >> >> > First >> > >> > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you >> > are >> > running a stock >> > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if >> > the >> > board >> > becomes detached while powered up. >> > >> That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the main >> board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, especially if it >> were >> knocked sideways - zap. >> > > Yes that is true. The MC6809 does not like to drive large capacitive > loads. The additional > runner lenghts and connectors add capacitance that degrades noise immunity > and potentially > damaging current transients during witching. Frankly I am not surprised > that the original MPI > has more problems. The duffers should have been on the inside of the Coco > and not on the > MPI side. > > >> > Second >> > >> > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on >> > the dip switches and >> > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. >> > >> If I build it, I'll know what the DIP swicthes do. But again easily >> fixed - >> jumper wires instead of the DIP switches if you don't want the DIP >> switches. >> > > True. Still the E clock line should feed directly to the slot connectors > from the buffer. No > jumpers or any switches. > >> > Third >> > >> > What is the function of Q1? >> > >> It is supposed to tell the ATX power supply to switch on when the CoCo >> Powers on - this was stated in the text. However, this is pretty lame - A >> reed relay might have been better or just a switch to turn the darned >> thing >> on. Yeah - the switch probably would be best. >> > > Okay that makes sense. Did not realize that you are powering this off an > ATX supply. > >> > Fourth >> > >> > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes >> > that >> > are tied at but just >> > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large >> > plane on both sides is >> > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise >> > immunity. Either use one >> > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating >> > fingers. >> > >> > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. >> >> I did use only one ground - the GND/1 is the Library Name for the Ground >> Symbol that I have chosen - ALL Grounds in the schematic are electrically >> tied to the GND net name. This can be seen if you load it up in EAGLE and >> right click to get the properties of any GND connection - they are all >> tied >> to GND. >> > > They are? Why then highlighting the plane states GND and the runner from > runner CN2 is > GND1. That means you have two grounds and they are tied together at some > other point on > the board. > > At least I would not do it that way. If they are supposed to be one then > make them one. Not > two and then use some etch someplace on the board to tie them togeter > unless you intend to > do a star connection. If tha twas your intent the star point should be > where the board make > ground connections to the outide world. Not internal to the board. > >> If you find any more problems - fire away - it'll help me fix this right >> up. >> I'm just a hobbyist - no formal training, so this design MUST be >> SCRUTINIZED >> thoroughly in order to work out all of the bugs. -John >> > > If i find time to do a more in depth review I may. Right now I have more > important things to > do. > > james > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 16:11:12 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 15:11:12 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <4C322876.3255.1261FF5@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <21C860E9433A46EDAD27EE0A7F0EDA47@hackersafa71ff> James, I was just reading some of my replies to you - As it is impossible to transfer tones of voice, etc. via e-mail, I was afraid that my replies (at least one of them) to you might have sounded as if I was trying to be rude - This is NOT the case - I just wanted you to know that I value each and every one of your observations regarding this design and you have pointed out plenty of areas that I need to improve - I APPRECIATE THIS my Friend. Thank You - John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : >> >> > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a >> > look see: >> >> >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If >> >> you are running a stock >> >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E >> >> if the board >> >> becomes detached while powered up. >> >> >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the >> > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, >> > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. >> >> I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E >> any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a >> Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional >> plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall >> killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. >> >> Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different >> in the CoCo 3. >> >> Cheers. >> >> Phill. >> > > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS > depletion loads are ot > designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one > output, all the current > is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry > determines the > amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o > TTL load (~2.4 > mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port > will no longer function > properly. In any case you have been lucky. > > I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered > with a LS245. > So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled > high through some > resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. > The resistors along > with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus > enough of the > damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. > Transients can cause > latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. > > james > > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 16:32:34 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:32:34 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <21C860E9433A46EDAD27EE0A7F0EDA47@hackersafa71ff> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <21C860E9433A46EDAD27EE0A7F0EDA47@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C324162.30491.1877AEE@jdaggett.gate.net> No problem I made suggestions that I thought you might consider. Layout is an art more so than just a science. While there is science involved, thae art portion is gained from years of experience. Knowing what works and what does not comes from doing more than learning. james On 5 Jul 2010 at 15:11, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > James, > I was just reading some of my replies to you - As it is impossible to > transfer tones of voice, etc. via e-mail, I was afraid that my replies (at > least one of them) to you might have sounded as if I was trying to be > rude - This is NOT the case - I just wanted you to know that I value each > and every one of your observations regarding this design and you have > pointed out plenty of areas that I need to improve - I APPRECIATE THIS my > Friend. Thank You - John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 1:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > > > > On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > > > >> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : > >> > >> > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a > >> > look see: > >> >> > >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If > >> >> you are running a stock > >> >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E > >> >> if the board > >> >> becomes detached while powered up. > >> >> > >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > >> > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > >> > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. > >> > >> I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E > >> any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a > >> Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional > >> plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall > >> killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. > >> > >> Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different > >> in the CoCo 3. > >> > >> Cheers. > >> > >> Phill. > >> > > > > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS > > depletion loads are ot > > designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one > > output, all the current > > is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry > > determines the > > amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o > > TTL load (~2.4 > > mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port > > will no longer function > > properly. In any case you have been lucky. > > > > I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered > > with a LS245. > > So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled > > high through some > > resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. > > The resistors along > > with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus > > enough of the > > damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. > > Transients can cause > > latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. > > > > james > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From farna at att.net Mon Jul 5 16:53:33 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:53:33 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Message-ID: <4C32464D.1030807@att.net> The main problem is with the early cartridges. Later ones have the power land slightly shorter than the other. When the cartridge isn't inserted or detached straight out and all the lands are the same length the power land can short over to the adjacent lands, sending +5V over a line that wasn't meant for it -- or +12V in the case of the CoCo1 and possibly early Dragon. Look at your carts real good and see if one land isn't shorter than the others. ------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:06:20 +0100 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. >> If you are running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging >> the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while >> powered up. > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional plugging/unplugging things with the power on. I don't recall killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different in the CoCo 3. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From farna at att.net Mon Jul 5 16:59:10 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:59:10 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Message-ID: <4C32479E.7020906@att.net> Well, I see your point. I know a lot of people do have a lot of things tied to their system. In your case I'd pull the old HDB-DOS pack out and just use the SD drive pack and a 2GB card. Maybe a different card for OS-9 and DECB. But I'm not real familiar with the SD pack -- can it be equipped with a ROM or load something like HDB-DOS and be used with DECB? ------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:44:41 -0400 From: Brian Maybe it's just me, but, I could easily use more than 4 slots. Currently, I've got my MPI loaded with a serial pack, sd drive pack, hdb-dos pack and a floppy controller. I still have an O90, S/S cart, The Voice and various ROM packs. Granted, not all have to be used at once, but, I think a unit that offers more than 4 slots would come in handy considering the new pack based hardware that's been developed. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 18:12:52 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:12:52 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer References: <4C32479E.7020906@att.net> Message-ID: <7445636F80504A37930D1ECFF17E3491@hackersafa71ff> Frank, In my case, I have FDC, ORCH90, Speech/Sound and B&B XT-RTC, so I'm all out of slots :-) One thing that does concern me: If 8 cartridges are present in the expansion bus, they may overload the buffers in the MPI (8 carts may exceed fanout capacity) - definitely something I need to look into. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Swygert" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer > Well, I see your point. I know a lot of people do have a lot of things > tied to their system. In your case I'd pull the old HDB-DOS pack out and > just use the SD drive pack and a 2GB card. Maybe a different card for OS-9 > and DECB. But I'm not real familiar with the SD pack -- can it be equipped > with a ROM or load something like HDB-DOS and be used with DECB? > > ------------ > Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:44:41 -0400 > From: Brian > > Maybe it's just me, but, I could easily use more than 4 slots. > Currently, I've got my MPI loaded with a serial pack, sd drive pack, > hdb-dos pack and a floppy controller. > > I still have an O90, S/S cart, The Voice and various ROM packs. > Granted, not all have to be used at once, but, I think a unit that > offers more than 4 slots would come in handy considering the new pack > based hardware that's been developed. > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://www.amc-mag.com > (free download available!) > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 18:13:52 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:13:52 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >> >>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>> out for the life of me. >>> >>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>> >>> What key are you looking for? >> >> I believe it's "Insert"? ?I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes >> in there somewhere. ?Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >> would know this off the top of their heads. > > Ack, sorry. ?It's "Clear", not Insert. ?Still cannot figure out where this > might be mapped. > Tab works for me. > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 18:34:21 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:34:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! Message-ID: I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 19:05:38 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:05:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? Message-ID: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> I am looking at a complete redesign of the 8-Slot MPI using a small CPLD. This would allow a more cost effective version to be designed and once I get a good board layout, any changes would be done in code. It doesn't have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. The use of a CPLD would allow me to code a separate set of buffers for each slot (and the MPI design could technically be expanded to 16 slots - but that's just OVERKILL.) - this would alleviate my concerns over fan out as well. I would like to stick with XILINX since they provide free design tools, but if other companies offer free design tools, I'd be willing to use them too - right now I'm a borderline "broke" dude - this economy is the pits (but I'm not allowed to work just yet anyway - hopefully soon Mr. Dr. will sign off on my going back to work. - once that happens my design time will evaporate, so toss me all the ideas you guys can while I have the time to complete them.) Thanks for everything my friends. I have got to finish the PIA Pak that one of you requested - I forget who it was but I'll get it done after I upload the PLD code for the current work in progress MPI. Speaking of the PIA Pak, I am designing it so the PIA's can be mapped at either $FF1x/$FF3x (only useful with a CoCo 3, but won't normally function in an MPI - I have developed a PAL for the 26-3024 MPI that opens up FF1x/3x for use on a CoCo 3), and can also be mapped to the $FF4x area. I listen to all of your requests and do my best to provide the designs that you ask for. You guys give me a reason to keep on keeping on... I have worked out a 512K SIMM upgrade that can use any 30-Pin SIMM's, not just the 8/9 chip kind. I still need to test it. It should also work with 72-Pin SIMM's though it will waste most of their capacity. What I have done (and a lot of this is based on questions that I asked Mr. Paul Barton - his replies helped out a lot) is take in CAS*,RAS*,HSYNC*,VSYNC* and E into a small PLD. Using these signals, it is possible to derive signals to determine when the CoCo is accessing the memory for Video via the GIME, accessing the memory for CPU via the GIME, or when No Memory Access is taking place or a refresh is being done. This is so much simpler than the way DISTO did it (Tony used a 4-bit counter in Sync with the E clock to synthesize these signals, but Paul helped me (read that: told me) how to derive these signals quite naturally from the sync's, e and ras/cas.) I have allowed a DAT6 & DAT7 input into the PLD and have included multiplexing of that into z9, so this could be used as a 2-meg memory board if you built up Tony's DAT board. What the PLD does (it's just a plain old cheap 16V8) is: During any NON-CPU or NON-VIDEO cycle (and only during HSYNC or VSYNC times) - swap's CAS for RAS at the SIMMS and truncates CAS so that it terminates simultaneously with RAS forcing a CBRefresh using the SIMM's internal counters. During CPU or VIDEO cycles, everything works as normal. In addition to forcing refresh during an HSYNC (the time the GIME normally uses to do refresh), the PLD also uses VSYNC time for refresh. I hope to get this done and out there soon for all you wonderful CoCoists. I've decided to go ahead and do the 512Meg upgrade too thanks to Paul teaching all about refresh :-) I'll extend the MMU bits to 16-bits but this will be done in such a way as to allow Nitros9 to function as if it were still a 2-Meg CoCo. Give me more suggestions - keep me busy working guys - some of my designs will fail, some will work, but I shall endeavor to persevere. Thanks Guys/Ladies - John From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 19:42:01 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >>> >>>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>> >>>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>>> out for the life of me. >>>> >>>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>>> >>>> What key are you looking for? >>> >>> I believe it's "Insert"? ?I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >>> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes >>> in there somewhere. ?Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >>> would know this off the top of their heads. >> >> Ack, sorry. ?It's "Clear", not Insert. ?Still cannot figure out where this >> might be mapped. >> > > Tab works for me. Thanks! It works fine. However, what does one do if using an editor or other application that requires the tab character? Steve -- From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 19:45:07 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:45:07 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>>>> out for the life of me. >>>>> >>>>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>>>> >>>>> What key are you looking for? >>>> >>>> I believe it's "Insert"? ?I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >>>> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break >>>> codes >>>> in there somewhere. ?Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >>>> would know this off the top of their heads. >>> >>> Ack, sorry. ?It's "Clear", not Insert. ?Still cannot figure out where >>> this >>> might be mapped. >>> >> >> Tab works for me. > > Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or > other application that requires the tab character? > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? > Steve > > > > -- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 19:47:02 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:47:02 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? In-Reply-To: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C326EF6.3010602@iinet.net.au> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > It doesn't > have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power > supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. Altera MAX3000 will do the trick. Quartus design tool is free (and way superior to Xilinx). Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 19:50:31 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:50:31 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: >>How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? The RIGHT ARROW produces ASCII Code 09 which is HT (horizontal tab) on a CoCo - is this what you were asking about? I haven't yet read all of this thread so I may be wrong... John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>>>> out for the life of me. >>>>> >>>>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>>>> >>>>> What key are you looking for? >>>> >>>> I believe it's "Insert"? I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >>>> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break >>>> codes >>>> in there somewhere. Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >>>> would know this off the top of their heads. >>> >>> Ack, sorry. It's "Clear", not Insert. Still cannot figure out where >>> this >>> might be mapped. >>> >> >> Tab works for me. > > Thanks! It works fine. However, what does one do if using an editor or > other application that requires the tab character? > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? > Steve > > > > -- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 19:51:02 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:51:02 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> <4C326EF6.3010602@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <3AE4A578254B434B8B1496FB0EFD17F6@hackersafa71ff> Excellent - Thank You! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark McDougall" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? > Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> It doesn't >> have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power >> supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. > > Altera MAX3000 will do the trick. Quartus design tool is free (and way > superior to Xilinx). > > Regards, > > -- > | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it > | | with less resistance!" > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From lost at l-w.ca Mon Jul 5 20:29:04 2010 From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:29:04 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? In-Reply-To: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C3278D0.2050402@l-w.ca> Wow, you've been busy. I feel I should prefix this with a comment that I am not an expert at electronics at all. I know enough to know that I know nothing. Take this as idle musing. For the memory board, you might consider having two modes. One which is "compatible" with the classic GIME using the same 6/8 bit registers and one which allows direct 16 bit writes to various registers. I'm not sure how that might be done but maybe it can be faked with some trickery on the bus. By that, I mean possibly tricking the hardware so that a 16 bit write at FFA0 only affects FFA0 but still manages to write all 16 bits? I think it's possible with some trickery as long as the GIME's decode of FFAx can be overridden by other logic. One would simply need to detect a write to FFA0/1, FFA1/2, ... FFAF/B0 on subsequent clock cycles and steal the write so that it doesn't mess up the other stuff. That's assuming I have the 6809's behaviour on a 16 bit write/read correct and that it does so in adjacent CPU cycles. Of course, it may not be possible to do what I'm thinking but wouldn't it be cool if it was? Default to 2MB compatible mode but have a process that switches to "16 bit" mode? Of course, this might require that the operating system swap the byte values so as not to confuse the GIME but I would think that a small price to pay. :) Come to think of it, that might be a useful trick to create 16 bit I/O ports on expansion boards in general on the CART port as long as the 16 bit port is not mapped to the last address a particular device uses. (Otherwise there would potential conflicts between devices that are not cooperating.) Now wouldn't that be bizarre? Faking out the system to write 16 bits at a single address without affecting the next address? For any "port" that is always accessed as 16 bits, I can see it might be useful given the scarecity of addresses in FFxx. On 10-07-05 05:05 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > I am looking at a complete redesign of the 8-Slot MPI using a small CPLD. This would allow a more cost effective version to be designed and once I get a good board layout, any changes would be done in code. It doesn't have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. The use of a CPLD would allow me to code a separate set of buffers for each slot (and the MPI design could technically be expanded to 16 slots - but that's just OVERKILL.) - this would alleviate my concerns over fan out as well. I would like to stick with XILINX since they provide free design tools, but if other companies offer free design tools, I'd be willing to use them too - right now I'm a borderline "broke" dude - this economy is the pits (but I'm not allowed to work just yet anyway - hopefully soon Mr. Dr. will sign off on my going back to work. - once that happens my design time will evaporate, so toss me all the ideas you gu > ys can while I have the time to complete them.) > > Thanks for everything my friends. I have got to finish the PIA Pak that one of you requested - I forget who it was but I'll get it done after I upload the PLD code for the current work in progress MPI. Speaking of the PIA Pak, I am designing it so the PIA's can be mapped at either $FF1x/$FF3x (only useful with a CoCo 3, but won't normally function in an MPI - I have developed a PAL for the 26-3024 MPI that opens up FF1x/3x for use on a CoCo 3), and can also be mapped to the $FF4x area. I listen to all of your requests and do my best to provide the designs that you ask for. You guys give me a reason to keep on keeping on... > > I have worked out a 512K SIMM upgrade that can use any 30-Pin SIMM's, not just the 8/9 chip kind. I still need to test it. It should also work with 72-Pin SIMM's though it will waste most of their capacity. What I have done (and a lot of this is based on questions that I asked Mr. Paul Barton - his replies helped out a lot) is take in CAS*,RAS*,HSYNC*,VSYNC* and E into a small PLD. Using these signals, it is possible to derive signals to determine when the CoCo is accessing the memory for Video via the GIME, accessing the memory for CPU via the GIME, or when No Memory Access is taking place or a refresh is being done. This is so much simpler than the way DISTO did it (Tony used a 4-bit counter in Sync with the E clock to synthesize these signals, but Paul helped me (read that: told me) how to derive these signals quite naturally from the sync's, e and ras/cas.) I have allowed a DAT6& DAT7 input into the PLD and have included multiplexing of that into z9, so this could be u se > d as a 2-meg memory board if you built up Tony's DAT board. What the PLD does (it's just a plain old cheap 16V8) is: During any NON-CPU or NON-VIDEO cycle (and only during HSYNC or VSYNC times) - swap's CAS for RAS at the SIMMS and truncates CAS so that it terminates simultaneously with RAS forcing a CBRefresh using the SIMM's internal counters. During CPU or VIDEO cycles, everything works as normal. In addition to forcing refresh during an HSYNC (the time the GIME normally uses to do refresh), the PLD also uses VSYNC time for refresh. I hope to get this done and out there soon for all you wonderful CoCoists. I've decided to go ahead and do the 512Meg upgrade too thanks to Paul teaching all about refresh :-) I'll extend the MMU bits to 16-bits but this will be done in such a way as to allow Nitros9 to function as if it were still a 2-Meg CoCo. Give me more suggestions - keep me busy working guys - some of my designs will fail, some will work, but I shall endeavor to perse ver > e. > > Thanks Guys/Ladies - John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 21:01:24 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:01:24 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Lothan wrote: >>> >>> Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps >>> List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for >>> each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the >>> array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can >>> be >>> allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. >>> >> >> It's been a while... ?IIRC the reason I didn't use a dynamic sized >> type is that the CoCo can request or write to any sector at any time, >> and there didn't seem to be any elegant way to do sparse arrays... >> maybe a hash on sector number would work. ?There may be other reasons >> that I'm not remembering, of course a List would be much nicer so I'm >> hoping I had a good reason not to use it :) ?I will revisit this >> entire section at some point. > > Why not an array of references to (lazily) heap-allocated sector buffers? If > the sector is never accessed you only waste one pointer per image sector. > ?Worst case, you'll be slightly worse off than the current architecture. > yes, that would be the way to do it. in Java, things aren't quite as simple as that.. everything is a pointer yet nothing is a pointer :) there should be a way to do such a thing nonetheless. feel free to take a shot at it. > I understand the point in your earlier note about remote images, but > hopefully these would tend to be small and could continue to be read in > their entirety up front. > remote images will always have to be cached locally, whether in memory or a temp file, since we don't have random access. we would have to read the entire object each time a sector was requested otherwise :( I knew the current scheme wasn't great, but I guess no one has tried to mount such a large disk before, or they just didn't mention it to me. 5MB is the biggest image I use here. > Steve > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 21:04:50 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or >> other application that requires the tab character? >> > > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 adapter on my "real" CoCo). Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. Sorry to annoy you with my questions, I apologize and will desist. -- From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 21:08:24 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:08:24 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >>> Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or >>> other application that requires the tab character? >>> >> >> How do you type a tab on a coco? ?maybe the same way? > > I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 > adapter on my "real" CoCo). > > Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's > a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. ?Sorry to annoy you with > my questions, I apologize and will desist. > No annoyance here. I guess tone is hard to detect in text :) > > > > -- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 21:13:16 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 20:13:16 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> <4C3278D0.2050402@l-w.ca> Message-ID: <53B2508DD62945008CBB7E5E44908ABC@hackersafa71ff> William, That's a great idea. What I had intended was to use the $FF8x area. The MSB of the MMU registers would be located at $FF8x while the LSB's would be in the normal $FFAx range. On power up (but not reset), the $FF8x would automatically be reset to 00's to maintain compatibility with the normal DISTO method of 2-Meg's at power up. 16-bits would give us a total of 65,536 8K MMU blocks, totalling 536,870,912 bytes of memory for use by the CPU. That's 512Megs of memory that is completely accessible to the CPU. Now, the video circuit does not have a clue as to what to do with anything over 512K-bytes. Tony solved this by creating a video bank register at $FF9B. He used the lower two bits to select 1 of 4 512K Banks during a video cycle. So, during a CPU cycle - the DAT memory is muxed into Z9, but during a Video Cycle, the two Video Bank Bits are muxed into Z9. Tony is a GENIUS. So, what I would do would be to use all 8 bits of Tony's video bank register which would allow 256 different 512K banks any one of which could house the video. I believe this is completely attainable. Also, all 512Megs doesn't have to be RAM, you could stick in some FLASH/EEPROM or what have you. This will probably be the coolest of all of my projects and now that I have a recommendation of a cool CPLD to use, I can make the design even simpler. My dad gave me his vintage stuff to keep me busy while I'm unable to work. I figure all of you guys have supported me by buying my stuff over the last three years, so I am releasing everything that I design as fully open projects for all to use as they see fit. Thanks to you all :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Astle" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? > Wow, you've been busy. > > I feel I should prefix this with a comment that I am not an expert at > electronics at all. I know enough to know that I know nothing. Take this > as idle musing. > > For the memory board, you might consider having two modes. One which is > "compatible" with the classic GIME using the same 6/8 bit registers and > one which allows direct 16 bit writes to various registers. I'm not sure > how that might be done but maybe it can be faked with some trickery on > the bus. By that, I mean possibly tricking the hardware so that a 16 bit > write at FFA0 only affects FFA0 but still manages to write all 16 bits? > I think it's possible with some trickery as long as the GIME's decode of > FFAx can be overridden by other logic. One would simply need to detect a > write to FFA0/1, FFA1/2, ... FFAF/B0 on subsequent clock cycles and > steal the write so that it doesn't mess up the other stuff. That's > assuming I have the 6809's behaviour on a 16 bit write/read correct and > that it does so in adjacent CPU cycles. > > Of course, it may not be possible to do what I'm thinking but wouldn't > it be cool if it was? Default to 2MB compatible mode but have a process > that switches to "16 bit" mode? Of course, this might require that the > operating system swap the byte values so as not to confuse the GIME but > I would think that a small price to pay. :) > > Come to think of it, that might be a useful trick to create 16 bit I/O > ports on expansion boards in general on the CART port as long as the 16 > bit port is not mapped to the last address a particular device uses. > (Otherwise there would potential conflicts between devices that are not > cooperating.) > > Now wouldn't that be bizarre? Faking out the system to write 16 bits at > a single address without affecting the next address? For any "port" that > is always accessed as 16 bits, I can see it might be useful given the > scarecity of addresses in FFxx. > > On 10-07-05 05:05 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> I am looking at a complete redesign of the 8-Slot MPI using a small CPLD. >> This would allow a more cost effective version to be designed and once I >> get a good board layout, any changes would be done in code. It doesn't >> have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power >> supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. The use of a >> CPLD would allow me to code a separate set of buffers for each slot (and >> the MPI design could technically be expanded to 16 slots - but that's >> just OVERKILL.) - this would alleviate my concerns over fan out as well. >> I would like to stick with XILINX since they provide free design tools, >> but if other companies offer free design tools, I'd be willing to use >> them too - right now I'm a borderline "broke" dude - this economy is the >> pits (but I'm not allowed to work just yet anyway - hopefully soon Mr. >> Dr. will sign off on my going back to work. - once that happens my design >> time will evaporate, so toss me all the ideas you > gu >> ys can while I have the time to complete them.) >> >> Thanks for everything my friends. I have got to finish the PIA Pak that >> one of you requested - I forget who it was but I'll get it done after I >> upload the PLD code for the current work in progress MPI. Speaking of the >> PIA Pak, I am designing it so the PIA's can be mapped at either >> $FF1x/$FF3x (only useful with a CoCo 3, but won't normally function in an >> MPI - I have developed a PAL for the 26-3024 MPI that opens up FF1x/3x >> for use on a CoCo 3), and can also be mapped to the $FF4x area. I listen >> to all of your requests and do my best to provide the designs that you >> ask for. You guys give me a reason to keep on keeping on... >> >> I have worked out a 512K SIMM upgrade that can use any 30-Pin SIMM's, not >> just the 8/9 chip kind. I still need to test it. It should also work with >> 72-Pin SIMM's though it will waste most of their capacity. What I have >> done (and a lot of this is based on questions that I asked Mr. Paul >> Barton - his replies helped out a lot) is take in CAS*,RAS*,HSYNC*,VSYNC* >> and E into a small PLD. Using these signals, it is possible to derive >> signals to determine when the CoCo is accessing the memory for Video via >> the GIME, accessing the memory for CPU via the GIME, or when No Memory >> Access is taking place or a refresh is being done. This is so much >> simpler than the way DISTO did it (Tony used a 4-bit counter in Sync with >> the E clock to synthesize these signals, but Paul helped me (read that: >> told me) how to derive these signals quite naturally from the sync's, e >> and ras/cas.) I have allowed a DAT6& DAT7 input into the PLD and have >> included multiplexing of that into z9, so this could be u > se >> d as a 2-meg memory board if you built up Tony's DAT board. What the >> PLD does (it's just a plain old cheap 16V8) is: During any NON-CPU or >> NON-VIDEO cycle (and only during HSYNC or VSYNC times) - swap's CAS for >> RAS at the SIMMS and truncates CAS so that it terminates simultaneously >> with RAS forcing a CBRefresh using the SIMM's internal counters. During >> CPU or VIDEO cycles, everything works as normal. In addition to forcing >> refresh during an HSYNC (the time the GIME normally uses to do refresh), >> the PLD also uses VSYNC time for refresh. I hope to get this done and out >> there soon for all you wonderful CoCoists. I've decided to go ahead and >> do the 512Meg upgrade too thanks to Paul teaching all about refresh :-) >> I'll extend the MMU bits to 16-bits but this will be done in such a way >> as to allow Nitros9 to function as if it were still a 2-Meg CoCo. Give me >> more suggestions - keep me busy working guys - some of my designs will >> fail, some will work, but I shall endeavor to perse > ver >> e. >> >> Thanks Guys/Ladies - John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 21:16:00 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 20:16:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: Steven, I thought this list was for people to ask questions and help each other. I enjoy reading questions and answers. If I were easily annoyed, I would never have joined the list :-) Keep asking your questions - there's going to be someone who'll answer them (usually). -john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Hirsch" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> Thanks! It works fine. However, what does one do if using an editor or >> other application that requires the tab character? >> > > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 adapter on my "real" CoCo). Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. Sorry to annoy you with my questions, I apologize and will desist. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From diegoba at adinet.com.uy Mon Jul 5 21:28:40 2010 From: diegoba at adinet.com.uy (Diego Barizo) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 22:28:40 -0300 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3286C8.4000602@adinet.com.uy> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > Yes, that is, like most of his, an amazing piece of software. Emulate a ZX81... I guess it should be doable. After all, the D.K. system has a Z80, and dedicated sound chips. A TRS-80 Mod I-II-III could be more interesting... Diego From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 21:39:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 20:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Message-ID: This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. -John P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. -Lil' J From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 00:11:49 2010 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:11:49 -0700 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! Message-ID: Message: 10 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:34:21 -0500 From: "Little John \(GIMEchip.com\)" Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Message-ID: < EC02D959D2DE46D3BE5A6A7957180455 at hackersafa71ff> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... Why not just use MAME? From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 00:30:59 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 00:30:59 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > -John > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > -Lil' J > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the maestro of solder. There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 00:38:58 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 00:38:58 -0400 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... > I'm sure it could be done, but running at native speed is probably out of the question. A typical emulator requires a processor an order of magnitude more powerful than the system it's emulating to be real time. In the early days of computing, it was standard practice to emulate a CPU under development on an existing processor, this way software could be written at the same time the CPU was being designed. I believe Don Weiss mentioned at the cocofest that the 6809 was implemented on a PDP series mainframe before it existed in silicon. Sometimes I wish I was born 20 years earlier, those must have been exciting times. > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 03:16:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 02:16:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Altera MAX 3000A Message-ID: I am downloading and installing Quartus as per Mark M.'s suggestion. When I went and looked up the Altera MAX 3000 CPLD's, the cheapest one is $1.40. That one little chip can house the entire 8-Slot multi-pak design. I am going to go ahead and correct all of the design errors that James and the others have pointed out. Then I'm going to put it into a CPLD which will allow a much simpler PCB layout and a much cheaper production cost. You guys all rock - you just can't buy this kind of help in debugging a design - THANK YOU! Also, James - when I was searching previous posts and reading them, I noticed you mentioned coding a replacement GIME - how is that project going? How do you plan on distributing it? Just wondering - I had considered trying to isolate Gary's GIME code out of the CC3FPGA and try to make it work with a real 63C09 @ 5Mhz (I've read that the 63C09 can run reliably at 5Mhz). -John From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 6 04:50:14 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:50:14 +1000 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C32EE46.9030204@iinet.net.au> Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I'm sure it could be done, but running at native speed is probably out > of the question. A typical emulator requires a processor an order of > magnitude more powerful than the system it's emulating to be real > time. Second that. IIRC a TRS-80 emulator hand-coded in 68K assembler on the Amiga was only just fast enough to run at full speed... and even then there's a chance it required a faster copro?!? So, no chance on the Coco unfortunately. Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 07:14:06 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 07:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> >>>> Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or >>>> other application that requires the tab character? >>>> >>> >>> How do you type a tab on a coco? ?maybe the same way? >> >> I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 >> adapter on my "real" CoCo). >> >> Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's >> a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. ?Sorry to annoy you with >> my questions, I apologize and will desist. >> > > No annoyance here. I guess tone is hard to detect in text :) Well, sometimes I _feel_ like I'm being a pain :-). I did try to research the keyboard mapping for 'Clear' and could not find anything. Gary's writeup for the Digilent board has a few sentences about key assignment under BASIC and remarks that OS-9 will be covered later. Unfortunately, I couldn't find "later". I cannot speak for others, but I personally would like the key mapping to be as close as possible to the PC standard. Perhaps something like Scroll Lock or Pause/Break would be a better candidate for 'Clear'. Then Tab could be, err, Tab? This may be a good excuse to get familiar with the Verilog when Gary decides to release it. For now, no big deal. Steve -- From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 6 08:26:30 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:26:30 +1000 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4C3320F6.7080506@iinet.net.au> Steven Hirsch wrote: > Well, sometimes I _feel_ like I'm being a pain :-). For every question you ask, there are probably several others that will follow and have the same questions. At least this way the answers will be archived somewhere. And it may also give someone the impetus to write a HOWTO. So keep asking away! > I cannot speak for others, but I personally would like the key mapping to > be as close as possible to the PC standard. Perhaps something like > Scroll Lock or Pause/Break would be a better candidate for 'Clear'. Then > Tab could be, err, Tab? It's a double-edged sword. It does make for more natural typing when doing, for example, development. However, it's annoying when you can't play some games because the keys are in different locations. The absolute best solution is to have alternate mappings that can be switched back-and-forth on-the-fly. IIRC MESS has this ability. However, it's not always quite so simple or efficient to do it in HDL... :( Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From Gary.Becker at amd.com Tue Jul 6 09:54:05 2010 From: Gary.Becker at amd.com (Becker, Gary) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:54:05 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A7B8F2C4F4C7045BD659DB3DCAE91760D11EE4B@sausexmbp02.amd.com> The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. The numeric keypad would be nice also. Gary -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of coco-request at maltedmedia.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 11:12 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 Send Coco mailing list submissions to coco at maltedmedia.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coco-request at maltedmedia.com You can reach the person managing the list at coco-owner at maltedmedia.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coco digest..." From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 09:57:08 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:57:08 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4C333634.31740.3E519D@jdaggett.gate.net> The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to much solder. There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt toaster oven. The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will need adjusting. I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > -John > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > -Lil' J > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > maestro of solder. > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 11:51:40 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:51:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <4C333634.31740.3E519D@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> james, How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: jdaggett at gate.net To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to much solder. There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt toaster oven. The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will need adjusting. I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > -John > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > -Lil' J > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > maestro of solder. > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 12:06:59 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:06:59 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering References: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity of some of these folks. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >> wrote: >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >> > -John >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are >> > amazing. >> > -Lil' J >> > >> >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >> maestro of solder. >> >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >> >> >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Tue Jul 6 12:21:31 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> References: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <1CFA7A3D-B038-41CD-9500-BC21C6EE0521@zaphod.tzo.com> I never thought this would be possible. I've had a fair amount of practice soldering standard DIPs and leaded components, and even some surface mount Rs and Cs, but I thought SMD chips had to be installed by machine due to the tight spacing. I'm still certain I'd have a lot of bridges. They make it look so easy! On Jul 6, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > >> james, >> >> How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? >> >> I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. >> >> Mark >> Cloud-9 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jdaggett at gate.net >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering >> >> The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to >> much solder. >> >> There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. >> >> One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. >> >> Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in >> the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt >> toaster oven. >> >> The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and >> a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at >> max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will >> need adjusting. >> >> I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. >> >> james >> >> On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >>> wrote: >>> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > beatiful nonetheless :-) >>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >>> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >>> > -John >>> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > amazing. >>> > -Lil' J >>> > >>> >>> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >>> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >>> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >>> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >>> maestro of solder. >>> >>> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >>> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >>> >>> >>> > -- >>> > Coco mailing list >>> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 12:33:43 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:33:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity of some of these folks. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >> wrote: >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >> > -John >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are >> > amazing. >> > -Lil' J >> > >> >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >> maestro of solder. >> >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >> >> >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 12:37:08 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:37:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering References: <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: I was initially going to use a BGA SRAM in the DE-1 Expansion Board, but when I researched it I found most people probably wouldn't be able to assemble the boards (including myself by the way) so I switched to a TSSOP, which with a giant magnifier, I might be able to solder. :-) -J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. > > As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. > > As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be > able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. > > Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) > > I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the > ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > >> james, >> >> How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to >> the pads using a hotplate? >> >> I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. >> >> Mark >> Cloud-9 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jdaggett at gate.net >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering >> >> The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on >> the board and not to >> much solder. >> >> There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. >> >> One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good >> alternative. >> >> Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone >> controllers range in >> the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in >> a 1500 watt >> toaster oven. >> >> The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on >> the >> top and bottom and >> a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven >> method >> needs to work at >> max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different >> preheat times will >> need adjusting. >> >> I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. >> >> james >> >> On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >>> wrote: >>> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored >>> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are >>> > beatiful nonetheless :-) >>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >>> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >>> > -John >>> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are >>> > amazing. >>> > -Lil' J >>> > >>> >>> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >>> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >>> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >>> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >>> maestro of solder. >>> >>> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >>> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >>> >>> >>> > -- >>> > Coco mailing list >>> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 16:11:08 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:11:08 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <4C333634.31740.3E519D@jdaggett.gate.net>, <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C338DDC.11023.194B837@jdaggett.gate.net> Lots of flux and fiduciles on the board for the corners. I used to solder 80 pin BGA packages with 30 mil balls. The pitch was 0.1 inch if I remember correctly Seat the part and then place on a hot hotplate. As the solder melts, the package drops and about 30 seconds later slide the board off the hotplate. Did this to many a MC68HC11PH8 in an 80 pin BGA package. Not one failed in an accellerate life test. All survived the temperature cycling of -40degrees C to +85 degrees C. The parts went from one chamber to the other in less than 30 secondes. I found most of the hot air reworks do as much heating if not more than the hotplate. If the air pressure is set to high then the chance of disturbing other parts close by increases. With the hotplate if you do make a mistake it is usually the whole board needs repair. So care is needed in both assembly process. It also helped to have some 3 inch square ceraminc plates that were about 60 mils thick. I placed one on the hotplate and used another to receive the board as I slid it onto the cold ceramic plate. I still have about 15 or so of the alumina ceramic plates. Make nice wetstones to sharpen knife baldes also. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 15:51, Mark Marlette wrote: > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > > wrote: > > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > > -John > > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > > -Lil' J > > > > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > > maestro of solder. > > > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 16:25:03 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:25:03 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff>, <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C33911F.28496.1A17785@jdaggett.gate.net> Mark I agree the newer fine pitch BGAs with 0.8 mm pitch are really out of the range of hobbyists. In fact there is not hardly any PCB fab house that will does that pitch and pin count even with protoboards. For 584 pin FBGA package you are going to need at least 8 layers to get all the pins wired. You are talking 12 mil pads and 3 to 5 mil runners along with 5 mil vias. The smallest via tha tI have found that a shop will do for hobbyist is aobut 8 mil vias. That is only on 4 layer boards. ALso no blind vias. I hate blind vias. They are the creation of the devi. The 80 pin 100 mil pitch (2.54 mm) I could route that on a two layer board. Man that was fun. It took me almost a day to get just that part routed out from under the BGA. I dare not used an autorouter for that either. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 16:33, Mark Marlette wrote: > > Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. > > As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. > > As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. > > Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) > > I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > james, > > > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > > the pads using a hotplate? > > > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > > > Mark > > Cloud-9 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jdaggett at gate.net > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > > the board and not to > > much solder. > > > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > > alternative. > > > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > > controllers range in > > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > > a 1500 watt > > toaster oven. > > > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > > top and bottom and > > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > > needs to work at > > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > > preheat times will > > need adjusting. > > > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > > > james > > > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > >> wrote: > >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > >> > -John > >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > >> > amazing. > >> > -Lil' J > >> > > >> > >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > >> maestro of solder. > >> > >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> > Coco mailing list > >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Coco mailing list > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 16:31:33 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:31:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <4C338DDC.11023.194B837@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <1699170818.46362.1278448293429.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> .1" easier to eyeball it in. Not many of those in new designs these days. Legacy, yes. We had in the budget to buy an xray, but then the cutbacks....Can't go there. :) Nice to have color xray with software analysis. Was sweet. The Air-Vac system is very nice, works very well. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: jdaggett at gate.net To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:11:08 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Lots of flux and fiduciles on the board for the corners. I used to solder 80 pin BGA packages with 30 mil balls. The pitch was 0.1 inch if I remember correctly Seat the part and then place on a hot hotplate. As the solder melts, the package drops and about 30 seconds later slide the board off the hotplate. Did this to many a MC68HC11PH8 in an 80 pin BGA package. Not one failed in an accellerate life test. All survived the temperature cycling of -40degrees C to +85 degrees C. The parts went from one chamber to the other in less than 30 secondes. I found most of the hot air reworks do as much heating if not more than the hotplate. If the air pressure is set to high then the chance of disturbing other parts close by increases. With the hotplate if you do make a mistake it is usually the whole board needs repair. So care is needed in both assembly process. It also helped to have some 3 inch square ceraminc plates that were about 60 mils thick. I placed one on the hotplate and used another to receive the board as I slid it onto the cold ceramic plate. I still have about 15 or so of the alumina ceramic plates. Make nice wetstones to sharpen knife baldes also. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 15:51, Mark Marlette wrote: > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > > wrote: > > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > > -John > > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > > -Lil' J > > > > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > > maestro of solder. > > > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 16:34:30 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:34:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <4C33911F.28496.1A17785@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <287203396.46415.1278448470011.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> james, Even Specctra? I know EXACTLY what you are saying about the blinds. Our layout guy loves them, they should be illegal! Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: jdaggett at gate.net To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:25:03 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Mark I agree the newer fine pitch BGAs with 0.8 mm pitch are really out of the range of hobbyists. In fact there is not hardly any PCB fab house that will does that pitch and pin count even with protoboards. For 584 pin FBGA package you are going to need at least 8 layers to get all the pins wired. You are talking 12 mil pads and 3 to 5 mil runners along with 5 mil vias. The smallest via tha tI have found that a shop will do for hobbyist is aobut 8 mil vias. That is only on 4 layer boards. ALso no blind vias. I hate blind vias. They are the creation of the devi. The 80 pin 100 mil pitch (2.54 mm) I could route that on a two layer board. Man that was fun. It took me almost a day to get just that part routed out from under the BGA. I dare not used an autorouter for that either. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 16:33, Mark Marlette wrote: > > Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. > > As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. > > As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. > > Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) > > I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > james, > > > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > > the pads using a hotplate? > > > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > > > Mark > > Cloud-9 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jdaggett at gate.net > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > > the board and not to > > much solder. > > > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > > alternative. > > > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > > controllers range in > > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > > a 1500 watt > > toaster oven. > > > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > > top and bottom and > > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > > needs to work at > > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > > preheat times will > > need adjusting. > > > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > > > james > > > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > >> wrote: > >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > >> > -John > >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > >> > amazing. > >> > -Lil' J > >> > > >> > >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > >> maestro of solder. > >> > >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> > Coco mailing list > >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Coco mailing list > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 16:54:48 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:54:48 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> References: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>, <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C339818.4094.1BCB2A6@jdaggett.gate.net> Not really There are several different kinds of BGA packages. When I retired the technology had only gotten to 20 mil balls and 50 mill pitch. Today they are pushing finer arrays. to give you an idea of a fine pitch BGA consider the FG484 package that Xilinx uses. It is a 0.8 mm pitch with the balls being 0.6 mm is diameter. The largest runner you can pas between the pads is 6 mils(~0.23mm). You need tohave via hole that is no more than 8 mils in diameter more like 5 or 6 mils. These requirements whether hobbyist or commercial are not cheap. When you approach 3 and 4 mil runners you move beyond the standard process of etching into the realm of fine line processing. It is very easy to overetch 4 mil runners and then you are left with a runner that has all kinds of issues. For the hobbyist, fine pitch QFPs (0.5 mm pitch) is small enough. You may not achieve the density or the pin count that the FBGA and UFBGAs provide. If you need that small, there is more than likely a commercial solution to meet a need. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 11:06, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > james, > > > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > > the pads using a hotplate? > > > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > > > Mark > > Cloud-9 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jdaggett at gate.net > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > > the board and not to > > much solder. > > > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > > alternative. > > > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > > controllers range in > > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > > a 1500 watt > > toaster oven. > > > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > > top and bottom and > > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > > needs to work at > > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > > preheat times will > > need adjusting. > > > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > > > james > > > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > >> wrote: > >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > >> > -John > >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > >> > amazing. > >> > -Lil' J > >> > > >> > >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > >> maestro of solder. > >> > >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> > Coco mailing list > >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Coco mailing list > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 17:37:18 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:37:18 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade Message-ID: I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me to kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If you add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, plus locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He mailed it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install and it worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced wire, etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think of the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself for not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. -John From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 17:47:09 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <2A7B8F2C4F4C7045BD659DB3DCAE91760D11EE4B@sausexmbp02.amd.com> References: <2A7B8F2C4F4C7045BD659DB3DCAE91760D11EE4B@sausexmbp02.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Becker, Gary wrote: > The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I > did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key > to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for > the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with > is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard > definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. > The numeric keypad would be nice also. Gary, I'd be delighted to pursue the keyboard issues when you make the verilog sources available. Might be a good "starter" project since (hopefully) it's a well-bounded area of the hardware description. Steve -- From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 17:49:26 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:49:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> John, Thanks! Regards, Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:37:18 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me to kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If you add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, plus locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He mailed it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install and it worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced wire, etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think of the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself for not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. -John -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 6 18:05:00 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:05:00 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Cartridge cases Message-ID: <4C33A88C.3050800@aurigae.demon.co.uk> I'll try again, this time to the list address rather than coco-bounces....... Hi all, Does anyone know of a suitable case for home made CoCo/Dragon carts. Ideally I'd be looking for something Eurocard sized so about the same size as the FD-500 or the Speach/Sound carts. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 18:10:58 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:10:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. Holy Hanna! This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. Regards, Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Hirsch To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:47:09 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Becker, Gary wrote: > The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I > did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key > to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for > the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with > is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard > definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. > The numeric keypad would be nice also. Gary, I'd be delighted to pursue the keyboard issues when you make the verilog sources available. Might be a good "starter" project since (hopefully) it's a well-bounded area of the hardware description. Steve -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 18:12:54 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:12:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cartridge cases In-Reply-To: <4C33A88C.3050800@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <1286985167.48060.1278454374382.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Phill, I have over 300 of the full sized carts. Contact me privately if you are interested. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Phill Harvey-Smith To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:05:00 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cartridge cases I'll try again, this time to the list address rather than coco-bounces....... Hi all, Does anyone know of a suitable case for home made CoCo/Dragon carts. Ideally I'd be looking for something Eurocard sized so about the same size as the FD-500 or the Speach/Sound carts. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From member at linkedin.com Tue Jul 6 20:27:17 2010 From: member at linkedin.com (James Dessart via LinkedIn) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <176443969.9579.1278462437963.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> LinkedIn ------------James Dessart requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Boisy, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - James Accept invitation from James Dessart http://www.linkedin.com/e/-hkoy8c-gbbfiyiw-72/siHtd7VDbdKpjPxpsEMwCY4WxxcP5kRZ/blk/I2175085666_2/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYOnPoSdzkUc3kTcj99bPx5cnBAgRBybPkMcjAOcPgQd34LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from James Dessart http://www.linkedin.com/e/-hkoy8c-gbbfiyiw-72/siHtd7VDbdKpjPxpsEMwCY4WxxcP5kRZ/blk/I2175085666_2/39vdzoSdjwMdjsNcAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW that LinkedIn can find the answers to your most difficult questions? Post those vexing questions on LinkedIn Answers to tap into the knowledge of the world's foremost business experts: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-hkoy8c-gbbfiyiw-72/ask/inv-23/ ------ (c) 2010, LinkedIn Corporation From skwirl42 at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 20:46:31 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:46:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <176443969.9579.1278462437963.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> References: <176443969.9579.1278462437963.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> Message-ID: Oops, sorry about that guys. I guess I didn't notice the email address it was going to? -- James Dessart From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 20:47:51 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark Marlette wrote: > > As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. > > At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his > .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. > Holy Hanna! > > This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. No doubt of that. But, the only way to learn is to try. > There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As > some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. I've had a modicum of training in computer architecture, digital design and synthesis, but most of it was years ago when I went back for my (belated) CS degree and minored in EE. Those creaks you hear are my brain muscles... Nice thing is that I work elbow to elbow with folks who live and breathe this stuff. > Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop > compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work > assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, > 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. Home box is a 2.4GHz Core2 Quad with 8GB of memory. We'll have to see how painful it turns out to be. > Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. Hats off to all the hardware gurus. As they say "..oh, you have a CS degree? That's nice, just don't touch anything.". Steve p.s. - What's 'Pace'? -- From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com Tue Jul 6 21:37:08 2010 From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:37:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] TRS-80 X-PAD Message-ID: <20100706.203711.4476.1.johnchasteen.2@juno.com> Hello Coco Friends While straighting things in my computer room I found an Owner's manual "TRS-80 X-PAD Model GT-116". Since I gave the unit to be auctioned at our last coco Fest in Elgin, IL. I will be willing to mail the manual if you e-mail me. John ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c33daa4cdb07305fcm02duc From gene.heskett at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 00:03:57 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 00:03:57 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <201007070003.57204.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday 06 July 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: [...] > >p.s. - What's 'Pace'? > Pace, is probably the best single combo for rework soldering station there is, built in vacuum pump/hot air blower and temp regulated iron. Top models are in the kilobuck area. I could never afford one of those though, so I get by with an XYTronic for about $140, but its just a good iron, no vacuum or hot air stuff. For surface mount, I use a GC tweezer iron, plugged into a powerstat and running on 55 to 60 volts so it doesn't overheat when I have 70 caps to replace on each of 13 to 18 boards in a dvc-pro machine. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The Almighty in His infinite wisdom did not see fit to create Frenchmen in the image of Englishmen. -- Winston Churchill, 1942 From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Wed Jul 7 00:09:20 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 00:09:20 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <1972C22A-1F8F-4691-B076-B24FA1E72681@zaphod.tzo.com> On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark Marlette wrote: >> Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. > > Hats off to all the hardware gurus. As they say "..oh, you have a CS degree? That's nice, just don't touch anything.". > > Steve > > > p.s. - What's 'Pace'? I think it's in reference to http://pacedev.net From tlindner at macmess.org Wed Jul 7 02:05:02 2010 From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:05:02 -0700 Subject: [Coco] The Rainbow, Volume 2, Number 7, January 1983 Message-ID: <1jl8ctl.11bs5yvednppqM%tlindner@macmess.org> Thanks to the contributions of many people another issue has been completed in the CoCoMag project. For those unfamiliar, The CoComag project digitizes Color Computer magazines. The goal is to have a full text searchable version of all articles, program listings, advertisments and filler. The project is broken into small tasks taking under a minute each to complete. Come on by and help work on Feburary 1983. http://cocomag.dyndns.org/TheRainbow.shtml -- tim lindner tlindner at macmess.org Bright From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Wed Jul 7 07:54:42 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:54:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044211641.55055.1278503682282.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Steven, As Rob R. has pointed out, http://pacedev.net I tried them all, not all compile error free but the LOE here is VERY high. Again major work being done. Fun to play pacman one minute and the CoCo the next... As Gene H. pointed out Pace is correct for the desoldering work station, but I should have expanded. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Hirsch To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:47:51 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark Marlette wrote: > > As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. > > At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his > .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. > Holy Hanna! > > This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. No doubt of that. But, the only way to learn is to try. > There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As > some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. I've had a modicum of training in computer architecture, digital design and synthesis, but most of it was years ago when I went back for my (belated) CS degree and minored in EE. Those creaks you hear are my brain muscles... Nice thing is that I work elbow to elbow with folks who live and breathe this stuff. > Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop > compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work > assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, > 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. Home box is a 2.4GHz Core2 Quad with 8GB of memory. We'll have to see how painful it turns out to be. > Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. Hats off to all the hardware gurus. As they say "..oh, you have a CS degree? That's nice, just don't touch anything.". Steve p.s. - What's 'Pace'? -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 7 08:56:49 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 07:56:49 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Mark, you should've seen the first 512K I made (and the subsequent look on dad's face). I stuck two simms together with double sided sticky tape and used wire-wrap wire to connect the address lines of the simms together a0-a0 and so on - yep - soldered directly to the tiny holes at the simm edge fingers. then ran the wire wrap wire to connectors and plugged it all in. Dad was like - now how are you going to mount that mess, I said double-sided sticky tape. A lecture followed... that was three years ago.. I've learned a bit since then :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade > John, > > Thanks! > > Regards, > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:37:18 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade > > I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After > careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me > to kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If > you add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, > plus locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He > mailed it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install > and it worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced > wire, etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should > definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think > of the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself > for not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. > > Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. > > -John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Wed Jul 7 09:15:15 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:15:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: , <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C347DE3.23835.347775@jdaggett.gate.net> Compile/Synthesis time is dependant on the design, which FPGA/CPLD used, as well as the computer. I would almost think that OS has some impact also. As for the computer, the more RAM the better. Large designs need a huge amount of RAM or huge swap space on the disk. Still swap space is far slower than RAM. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 22:10, Mark Marlette wrote: > > As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. > > At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. Holy Hanna! > > This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. > > There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. > > Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. > > Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. > > Regards, > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven Hirsch > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:47:09 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 > > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Becker, Gary wrote: > > > The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I > > did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key > > to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for > > the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with > > is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard > > definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. > > The numeric keypad would be nice also. > > Gary, > > I'd be delighted to pursue the keyboard issues when you make the verilog > sources available. Might be a good "starter" project since (hopefully) > it's a well-bounded area of the hardware description. > > Steve > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Wed Jul 7 22:19:51 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:19:51 -0500 Subject: [Coco] The Cruncher In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> I came across a Coco program a few days ago, called "Cruncher". It is supposed to be able to "convert Dragon tapes to Coco format". Does any one on the list know about this program or what it might do? Are Dragon tapes recorded with a different format than Coco tapes? I think I have seen tapes that will work for both Dragon and Coco, so I'm guessing that the recording formats are the same. Might it do some conversion of the code, making the Dragon program Coco compatible? Any ideas or experience? Thanks! -- Steve -- From johnguin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 7 22:27:39 2010 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:27:39 -0700 Subject: [Coco] The Cruncher In-Reply-To: <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> Message-ID: IIRC, the Dragon tokenized BASIC commands differently. The workaround to get a tape working on either was to save with the ,A command: CSAVE"File.bas",A To have the file written in "pure ascii" so either machine could read it and re-tokenize it. But since the commands were the same and only the tokenized values varied, it seems the "Cruncher" probably just read the tape into a buffer, converted the needed values and saved in the desired format. But I may be wrong, John -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ostrom Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:20 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] The Cruncher I came across a Coco program a few days ago, called "Cruncher". It is supposed to be able to "convert Dragon tapes to Coco format". Does any one on the list know about this program or what it might do? Are Dragon tapes recorded with a different format than Coco tapes? I think I have seen tapes that will work for both Dragon and Coco, so I'm guessing that the recording formats are the same. Might it do some conversion of the code, making the Dragon program Coco compatible? Any ideas or experience? Thanks! -- Steve -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Wed Jul 7 22:45:44 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:45:44 -0500 Subject: [Coco] The Cruncher In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> Message-ID: Thanks, John. Makes sense. -- Steve -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Guin" To: "'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] The Cruncher > IIRC, the Dragon tokenized BASIC commands differently. The workaround to > get a tape working on either was to save with the ,A command: > CSAVE"File.bas",A > To have the file written in "pure ascii" so either machine could read it > and > re-tokenize it. > > But since the commands were the same and only the tokenized values varied, > it seems the "Cruncher" probably just read the tape into a buffer, > converted > the needed values and saved in the desired format. > > But I may be wrong, > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Ostrom > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:20 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] The Cruncher > > I came across a Coco program a few days ago, called "Cruncher". It is > supposed to be able to "convert Dragon tapes to Coco format". Does any > one > on the list know about this program or what it might do? Are Dragon tapes > recorded with a different format than Coco tapes? I think I have seen > tapes > that will work for both Dragon and Coco, so I'm guessing that the > recording > formats are the same. Might it do some conversion of the code, making the > Dragon program Coco compatible? Any ideas or experience? > > Thanks! > > -- Steve -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From random.rodder at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 23:12:30 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 23:12:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak Message-ID: Hey CoCo fanatics, I finally finished my review of Roger's DrivePak and CoCoNet. It's all here with videos (GR2K is a yawner due to load time...). If you're considering getting one of these cool new devices, go take a look. Hopefully the info there will help you make the right decision for your needs. Later, Brian From random.rodder at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 23:15:01 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 23:15:01 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Hehe... I was going to do a quickie review of the 512k upgrade, but, I think John beat me to it... lol. I bought mine in kit form so it took a little longer than 5 minutes, but, it does work great and it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to track down the appropriate SIMMs for the home brew upgrade. Brian On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) < sales at gimechip.com> wrote: > Mark, > you should've seen the first 512K I made (and the subsequent look on dad's > face). > I stuck two simms together with double sided sticky tape and used wire-wrap > wire to connect the address lines of the simms together a0-a0 and so on - > yep - soldered directly to the tiny holes at the simm edge fingers. then ran > the wire wrap wire to connectors and plugged it all in. Dad was like - now > how are you going to mount that mess, I said double-sided sticky tape. A > lecture followed... that was three years ago.. I've learned a bit since then > :-) > -John > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" < > mmarlette at frontiernet.net> > > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:49 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade > > > > John, >> >> Thanks! >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark >> Cloud-9 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:37:18 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade >> >> I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After >> careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me to >> kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If you >> add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, plus >> locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He mailed >> it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install and it >> worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced wire, >> etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should >> definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think of >> the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself for >> not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. >> >> Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. >> >> -John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 07:45:02 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > Hey CoCo fanatics, > > I finally finished my review of Roger's DrivePak and CoCoNet. It's all > here with > videos (GR2K is a yawner due to load time...). If you're considering getting > one of these cool new devices, go take a look. Hopefully the info there will > help you make the right decision for your needs. Brian, FYI your download link for the PLD equations is broken. -- From skwirl42 at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 08:03:25 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:03:25 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? Message-ID: Hi all! I was wondering if there are any smaller-footprint MPI replacements. Perhaps one that can run off an ATX power supply, or something. Thanks! -- James Dessart From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 8 08:19:07 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:19:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: Message-ID: James, I am working on a similar project. I am currently in the process of correcting all of the errors pointed out by list-members, plus a few I have discovered since... It isn't small - has 8 slots, but can be made with only 4 and is ATX powered. It is a high priority project as it has garnered more interest than any of my other projects. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:03 AM Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? > Hi all! I was wondering if there are any smaller-footprint MPI > replacements. Perhaps one that can run off an ATX power supply, or > something. Thanks! > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2988 - Release Date: 07/07/10 13:38:00 From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 09:01:16 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:01:16 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open or right click to download? On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Hey CoCo fanatics, >> >> I finally finished my review of Roger's DrivePak and CoCoNet. It's all >> here with >> >> videos (GR2K is a yawner due to load time...). If you're considering >> getting >> one of these cool new devices, go take a look. Hopefully the info there >> will >> help you make the right decision for your needs. >> > > Brian, FYI your download link for the PLD equations is broken. > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 8 09:47:18 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:47:18 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C35D6E6.6020302@iinet.net.au> Brian Blake wrote: > it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to track down > the appropriate SIMMs for the home brew upgrade. IIUC Classic Macs have the right SIMMS. I've got a handful of them that I found in the storeroom at work in a box marked "Mac Memory". Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 10:26:39 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open or > right click to download? I left-clicked. In 99.999% of such cases, Firefox will simply ask me what to do with the file - at which point I can specify a target directory or other action. Right-clicking did work properly, but begs the question of why your site behaves differently from "the norm" (whoever Norm is..). Steve -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 10:29:32 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open or > right click to download? Spoke too soon with my previous note. The file that downloaded was the server error message: 404 Not Found

Not Found

The requested URL /downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.pld was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

-- From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 10:48:19 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:48:19 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well that was weird... It's fixed now. On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open >> or >> right click to download? >> > > Spoke too soon with my previous note. The file that downloaded was the > server error message: > > > > 404 Not Found > >

Not Found

>

The requested URL /downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.pld was not found on > this server.

>

Additionally, a 404 Not Found > error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the > request.

> > > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Thu Jul 8 11:05:59 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:05:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: <4C35D6E6.6020302@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1956356314.74829.1278601559880.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Mark, RARE find for sure! Last buy I did. I asked how many do you have? Several hundred. I'll take them all. Really? Hit and miss on the search. I know I looked high and low. I don't like buying 1,2 or 10. Freight in charges will kill you. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark McDougall To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:47:18 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade Brian Blake wrote: > it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to track down > the appropriate SIMMs for the home brew upgrade. IIUC Classic Macs have the right SIMMS. I've got a handful of them that I found in the storeroom at work in a box marked "Mac Memory". Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From farna at att.net Thu Jul 8 12:07:35 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:07:35 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? Message-ID: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> I remembered at least one MPI replacement -- the Slot Pak II (and later III?). Found some more info on it at http://entropy.tmok.com/~tumble/cfaqs/COCO.FAQ. It seems that "our" very own Chris Hawks designed and sold it, maybe he could be talked into making another run? Only three slots though. A company called "Orion" also made a three slot MPI replacement. It had the cartridge connectors on a cable though. That would make it the best choice for repackaging a system where the carts weren't going to be moved much -- they would have to be secured somehow inside the repack case. This is the ONLY mention of these devices I could find using Google (searched for "coco slot pak" and "coco xport"). I'd check the Rainbow archives for pics, I do recall seeing at least the Slot Pak in ads. I'd check about a year after the demise of the MPI... 1989 and later? ---------------------- Slotpak (as excerpted from Marty Goodman's review by permission) There are now two new entries into the field of Multipak replacements: Howard Medical's "Slot Pak II" (designed by Chris Hawk of Hawksoft) and the Xport from Orion. Both offer three buffered slots. ..... External Appearance: The Slot Pak II (SPII) is packaged in what appears to be an old, full size, disk controller plastic case. There are three 40 pin edge card sockets sticking up on top of the case thru holes in the case. There is a jack for connection to a 12 volt wall transformer (supplied). Glued to the bottom of the pack is a U-shaped piece of plastic that supports the SPII, so that the weight of devices plugged in to it does not produce leverage that would deform the CoCo's 40 pin expansion socket. This is a nice touch, for the SPII plugs directly in to the expansion socket, and cards plug in to the three slots on the top surface of the SPII. There are no mechanical guides for ROM packs or cards... the edge card connectors are their sole support... ...The device uses ten small scale (74 series) logic chips internally -- three for buffering address and data lines and the rest for slot selection... XPort by Orion Technologies excerpted from a New Product Release. The XPort is Orion's answer to the latest of Tandy's casualties, the Multipak Interface. While the XPort is not a true duplication of the Multipak, it contains all of the necessary features that the common Color Computer user needs - Multiple slots, a fully buffered bus, slot switching, and a power supply external to the CoCo for the added cartridges which includes +5 and +/-12 volts. ... We offer not just two, but three slots with which to work. These slots are configured to allow hardware switching of the cartridge ROM in two of the slots, with the third slot being utilized for cartridges that have no internal software - such as the Telepak II, Tandy's Speech and Sound cartridge, a MIDI cartridge, etc. We gave the XPort something that was sadly lacking with the MPI, and that was MOBILITY. Since the XPort terminates as a cable, the working end of the cable with the peripherals installed can be moved out of sight by merely placing them where you like within 15 inches of your computer's cartridge port. The buffered bus allows a stronger signal, allowing the longer cable length than a standard "Y" cable. The XPort's internal circuitry will be powered by your Coco, drawing less than a standard disk controller, and all external peripherals will be powered by an external wall transformer (supplied) and voltage regulation circuitry that is external to the Coco's own power supply. The +/-12 volt (30 mA max. each) is provided by a DC-DC convertor in the XPort, and supplies enough power for the Burke and Burke XT interface, an older 12 volt contoller, or other devices (such as Disto's RS-232 cartridge). The XPort has been designed to allow all I/O to occur from address&HC000 (49152), the external ROM address, and up. ... -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 12:37:27 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> References: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> Message-ID: <201007081237.27508.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday 08 July 2010, Frank Swygert wrote: >I remembered at least one MPI replacement -- the Slot Pak II (and later > III?). Found some more info on it at > http://entropy.tmok.com/~tumble/cfaqs/COCO.FAQ. It seems that "our" very > own Chris Hawks designed and sold it, maybe he could be talked into > making another run? Only three slots though. > >A company called "Orion" also made a three slot MPI replacement. It had > the cartridge connectors on a cable though. That would make it the best > choice for repackaging a system where the carts weren't going to be moved > much -- they would have to be secured somehow inside the repack case. I have one of those, POS. You are dependent on the single ground pin in the cable and because of data clashes because two different sources are trying to drive the data bus at the same time for about 10ns on the read/write changeover, I found the crash rate was in crashes per second. Adding the extra grounding of the ear clips fixes 99.9% of that. It would probably be ok if the carts pcb's were all firmly mounted and their grounds well connected though. >This is the ONLY mention of these devices I could find using Google > (searched for "coco slot pak" and "coco xport"). I'd check the Rainbow > archives for pics, I do recall seeing at least the Slot Pak in ads. I'd > check about a year after the demise of the MPI... 1989 and later? > >---------------------- > > Slotpak (as excerpted from Marty Goodman's review by permission) > >There are now two new entries into the field of Multipak replacements: >Howard Medical's "Slot Pak II" (designed by Chris Hawk of Hawksoft) and >the Xport from Orion. Both offer three buffered slots. > > ..... >External Appearance: The Slot Pak II (SPII) is packaged in what appears >to be an old, full size, disk controller plastic case. There are three >40 pin edge card sockets sticking up on top of the case thru holes in >the case. There is a jack for connection to a 12 volt wall transformer >(supplied). Glued to the bottom of the pack is a U-shaped piece of > plastic that supports the SPII, so that the weight of devices plugged in > to it does not produce leverage that would deform the CoCo's 40 pin > expansion socket. This is a nice touch, for the SPII plugs directly in to > the expansion socket, and cards plug in to the three slots on the top > surface of the SPII. There are no mechanical guides for ROM packs or > cards... the edge card connectors are their sole support... > >...The device uses ten small scale (74 series) logic chips internally -- >three for buffering address and data lines and the rest for slot > selection... > > > XPort by Orion Technologies excerpted from a New Product Release. > >The XPort is Orion's answer to the latest of Tandy's casualties, the > Multipak Interface. While the XPort is not a true duplication of the > Multipak, it contains all of the necessary features that the common Color > Computer user needs - Multiple slots, a fully buffered bus, slot > switching, and a power supply external to the CoCo for the added > cartridges which includes +5 and +/-12 volts. > >... We offer not just two, but three slots with which to work. These > slots are configured to allow hardware switching of the cartridge > ROM in two of the slots, with the third slot being utilized for > cartridges that have no internal software - such as the Telepak II, > Tandy's Speech and Sound cartridge, a MIDI cartridge, etc. This 'cable' I have, has no logic in it at all. >We gave the XPort something that was sadly lacking with the MPI, and > that was MOBILITY. Since the XPort terminates as a cable, the > working end of the cable with the peripherals installed can be moved > out of sight by merely placing them where you like within 15 inches of > your computer's cartridge port. The buffered bus allows a stronger > signal, allowing the longer cable length than a standard "Y" cable. > >The XPort's internal circuitry will be powered by your Coco, > drawing less than a standard disk controller, and all external > peripherals will be powered by an external wall transformer (supplied) > and voltage regulation circuitry that is external to the Coco's own > power supply. The +/-12 volt (30 mA max. each) is provided by a DC-DC > convertor in the XPort, and supplies enough power for the Burke and > Burke XT interface, an older 12 volt contoller, or other devices (such as > Disto's RS-232 cartridge). > >The XPort has been designed to allow all I/O to occur from address&HC000 > (49152), the external ROM address, and up. ... So any of these would be a better designed solution than what I have in the coco's spares cabinet. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) NT (as in Windows NT) is short for "Nothing There". From mechacoco at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:35:26 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:35:26 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> References: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> Message-ID: On 7/8/10, Frank Swygert wrote: > I remembered at least one MPI replacement -- the Slot Pak II (and later > III?). > Found some more info on it at > http://entropy.tmok.com/~tumble/cfaqs/COCO.FAQ. > It seems that "our" very own Chris Hawks designed and sold it, maybe he > could > be talked into making another run? Only three slots though. > > A company called "Orion" also made a three slot MPI replacement. It had the > cartridge connectors on a cable though. That would make it the best choice > for repackaging a system where the carts weren't going to be moved much -- > they would have to be secured somehow inside the repack case. > --- There is also the PBJ CC-BUS, which has six slots and is not MPI compatible. Darren From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:36:22 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > Well that was weird... It's fixed now. Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns the error I sent in the last message. -- From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:41:43 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:41:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try the direct link. http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would expect... On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >> > > Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns > the error I sent in the last message. > > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From t.fadden at cox.net Thu Jul 8 13:46:29 2010 From: t.fadden at cox.net (Tim Fadden) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:46:29 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> Works fine for me also with a left or right click. For me, hovering over the link on my browser shows the direct link you posted just below, not the file name that is in the error information. Tim On 7/8/2010 10:41 AM, Brian Blake wrote: > Try the direct link. > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar > > I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, > Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would > expect... > > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >> >> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns >> the error I sent in the last message. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From jdaggett at gate.net Thu Jul 8 17:54:46 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:54:46 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> How small is small? Discrete logic may have an advantage over usign a CPLD in that you will need only one power rail as compared to two or three depending on CPLD. Cost wise neither maybe all that different. A discrete version can be down with SMT parts that would reduce size. The only discrete part that is not SMT that I know of would be the PAL chip. I have no means of programming one. That is where a CPLD would come in handy. Those equations are easily done in VHDL. In fact much of the circuit is relatively simple. Could almost do it with the schematic entry for either Xilinx or Altera software. james On 8 Jul 2010 at 8:03, James Dessart wrote: > Hi all! I was wondering if there are any smaller-footprint MPI > replacements. Perhaps one that can run off an ATX power supply, or > something. Thanks! > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From museum.it.arlington at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 17:17:11 2010 From: museum.it.arlington at gmail.com (Gilmore) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:17:11 -0000 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] 1st annual Vintage Computer Festival Southwest Message-ID: The 1st annual Vintage Computer Festival Southwest will be held August 7th and 8th, in the Rio Grande Ballroom, in the E.H. Hereford University Center, University of Texas Arlington. The event is sponsored by the Museum of Information Technology at Arlington, the UTA College of Engineering, the UTA Office of Information Technology and Vintage Tech. The VCF is an international event that celebrates the history of computing. There have been VCFs at several locations since 1997. Our mission is to promote the preservation of early computers by allowing people to experience the technologies, people and stories that embody the remarkable tale of the computer revolution. Southern US companies played a large role in the early days of the computer industry and the VCF Southwest hopes to focus on their contributions. VCF is not a swap meet, but you will have a chance to buy things or even come home with prizes. There will be speakers and videos each morning, exhibits each afternoon, and special events throughout the weekend. The VCF is held indoors, rain or shine. Admission is $10 for one day, $15 for both days, and free for ages 17 and younger. Parking is free. Hours are 9 A.M. - 5 P.M. on both Saturday and Sunday. Our web page giving more details about the event is http://mit-a.com/VCF1.shtml Please let us know if you can help us in this endeavor. If you would like to talk about any company or technology involved in the computer industry back in the `70s or `80s please let us know. If your company would be interested in being a sponsor of the event along with MITA and UT Arlington we would be happy to discuss that as well. From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com Thu Jul 8 18:36:07 2010 From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:36:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Chromoasette tapes Message-ID: <20100708.173608.4360.6.johnchasteen.2@juno.com> Hello Bob Devries I found your e-mail dated 27 April 2008 which has a list of Chromasette tapes which you have converted to .DSK files Are these available for downloading? If so, what is the URL? so far I don't have all my tapes togeather...I am not organized. John ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c36530599f64378d5m02duc From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 21:31:38 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:31:38 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> References: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> Message-ID: I've removed about 40 seconds and added some music in the Goldrunner 2000 video in the DrivePak review. I'm learning a few things about video editing and such, so hopefully future vids might not be so painfully boring... On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Tim Fadden wrote: > Works fine for me also with a left or right click. > For me, hovering over the link on my browser shows the direct link you > posted just below, not the file name that is in the error information. > > Tim > > > On 7/8/2010 10:41 AM, Brian Blake wrote: > >> Try the direct link. >> >> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >> >> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >> expect... >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>> >>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns >>> the error I sent in the last message. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From badfrog at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 00:52:36 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:52:36 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> Message-ID: The only suggestion I have is to make an alternate page format. While I love the CoCo style, man, that webpage really messes with my eyes after a couple of minutes! No offense meant, your site is awesome. I love the content, but it's kind of hard to read for more than a few minutes. (Maybe using the CoCo for so many years is why my eyes are messed up in the first place!) On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Brian Blake wrote: > I've removed about 40 seconds and added some music in the Goldrunner 2000 > video in the DrivePak review. I'm learning a few things about video editing > and such, so hopefully future vids might not be so painfully boring... > > > > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Tim Fadden wrote: > >> ?Works fine for me also with a left or right click. >> For me, hovering over the link on my browser shows the direct link you >> posted just below, not the file name that is in the error information. >> >> Tim >> >> >> On 7/8/2010 10:41 AM, Brian Blake wrote: >> >>> Try the direct link. >>> >>> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>> >>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >>> expect... >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch ?wrote: >>> >>> ?On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>> Still not working for me. ?Whether I click left or right, it just returns >>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Coco mailing list >>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>>> >>>> ?-- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 01:20:46 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 00:20:46 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak References: Message-ID: I have posted the 26-3124 upgrade here as well (the 26-3024 equations are also there in the comments): http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Hirsch" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > >> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. > > Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns > the error I sent in the last message. > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2989 - Release Date: 07/08/10 01:36:00 From skwirl42 at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 12:19:43 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:19:43 -0300 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: > How small is small? Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, movable jumpers would be fine. The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I can to reduce system footprint. -- James Dessart From mikewarns at yahoo.com Fri Jul 9 13:26:22 2010 From: mikewarns at yahoo.com (Mike Warns) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked Message-ID: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 15:20:14 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:20:14 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> James, I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and I'm thinking they are right. There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% compatibility with the Tandy MPI. I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you folks as well. In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all thru) Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to me - I'm always glad to help. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >> How small is small? > > Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for > the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit > into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, > movable jumpers would be fine. > > The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as > possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I > can to reduce system footprint. > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 15:29:17 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:29:17 -0500 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike, I had that happen once when I was using AOheLl - I logged in on a friends computer which was infected with a virus - once I logged in, it sent itself to all of my address book and randomly generated addresses (exactly 500 total) - AOL canceled my account but I called them and got it straightened out and then canceled the account myself - I just wanted to make sure they knew I hadn't done that on purpose. I then got DSL which is wonderful speedwise, but I don't really download enough to warrant the expense, however, when I install something like Xilinx or Altera web editions, it comes in handy. Anyway, it could have been one of those evil little virus' that got you. I don't know why people do that - it's never made any sense to me. I'd rather help people, not hurt them. Have a good day - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Warns" To: ; ; ; ; "April" ; ; ; "russ" ; "Didier Brival" ; "Tony Cascio" ; "Chuck Chiles" ; "St. Paul Lutheran Church" ; ; ; "Casey Collins" ; "Al Corbi" ; "Tim Costello" ; "Winifred Creamer" ; "Dan Daker" ; "Haband Deals" ; "Dex" ; ; ; "Eric" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:26 PM Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked > Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than > normal. > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From dragonbytes at cox.net Fri Jul 9 16:00:45 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:00:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked In-Reply-To: References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19854628-55F5-4DB2-9ADA-B657D23E7A41@cox.net> Thats why I use Macs :-) While there ARE a few virsues out there for Mac, they are so rare compared to Windows viruses that it's almost non-existant. Linux is another good one for avoiding virsuses. Just figured I'd throw that out there. - Todd Wallace On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Mike, I had that happen once when I was using AOheLl - I logged in on a friends computer which was infected with a virus - once I logged in, it sent itself to all of my address book and randomly generated addresses (exactly 500 total) - AOL canceled my account but I called them and got it straightened out and then canceled the account myself - I just wanted to make sure they knew I hadn't done that on purpose. I then got DSL which is wonderful speedwise, but I don't really download enough to warrant the expense, however, when I install something like Xilinx or Altera web editions, it comes in handy. > > Anyway, it could have been one of those evil little virus' that got you. I don't know why people do that - it's never made any sense to me. I'd rather help people, not hurt them. Have a good day - John > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Warns" > To: ; ; ; ; "April" ; ; ; "russ" ; "Didier Brival" ; "Tony Cascio" ; "Chuck Chiles" ; "St. Paul Lutheran Church" ; ; ; "Casey Collins" ; "Al Corbi" ; "Tim Costello" ; "Winifred Creamer" ; "Dan Daker" ; "Haband Deals" ; "Dex" ; ; ; "Eric" > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:26 PM > Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked > > >> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Fri Jul 9 16:15:23 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:15:23 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. At least I think a small 1K x 8 ROM should still be available... On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > James, > I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. > > I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and I'm thinking they are right. > > There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% compatibility with the Tandy MPI. > > I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you folks as well. > > In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) > > I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all thru) > > Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to me - I'm always glad to help. > > -John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > > >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >>> How small is small? >> >> Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for >> the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit >> into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, >> movable jumpers would be fine. >> >> The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as >> possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I >> can to reduce system footprint. >> >> -- >> James Dessart >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Fri Jul 9 16:18:19 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:18:19 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <24F31F9C-8815-45AF-B63B-AB3FF372AB01@zaphod.tzo.com> Never mind... Without knowing more about the specifics, I think I jumped in a bit soon. On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. > > At least I think a small 1K x 8 ROM should still be available... > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> James, >> I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. >> >> I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and I'm thinking they are right. >> >> There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% compatibility with the Tandy MPI. >> >> I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you folks as well. >> >> In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) >> >> I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all thru) >> >> Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to me - I'm always glad to help. >> >> -John >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM >> Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? >> >> >>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >>>> How small is small? >>> >>> Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for >>> the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit >>> into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, >>> movable jumpers would be fine. >>> >>> The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as >>> possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I >>> can to reduce system footprint. >>> >>> -- >>> James Dessart >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 16:20:26 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:20:26 -0500 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <19854628-55F5-4DB2-9ADA-B657D23E7A41@cox.net> Message-ID: <0BAF9FAAAAD8416B81AE0D573A34075F@hackersafa71ff> I love Linux also, and FreeBSD (actually, mostly using PC-BSD these days when I'm not at my Windows Machine). Have you ever connected a CoCo 3 serially to a Linux machine and used the CoCo as a terminal? I love doing stuff like that and commanding the PC from the CoCo just to make visitors go: Uh.. What???? That's why I really want to get one of Roger's Wireless Pak's - when they are available again... My MACs are very old ones - the newest being one of the original Imacs and the oldest being one of the original B/W Macs, but with an internal hard drive added. I would love to have a new Mac, but just can't afford one. I've seen places selling knock offs with a "hacked" Mac OSX, very cheap, but I just refuse to violate Apple's License :-) (which would make me as evil as those 'bleeping' virus writers.) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Wallace" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] My email was hacked > Thats why I use Macs :-) While there ARE a few virsues out there for Mac, > they are so rare compared to Windows viruses that it's almost > non-existant. Linux is another good one for avoiding virsuses. Just > figured I'd throw that out there. > > - Todd Wallace > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> Mike, I had that happen once when I was using AOheLl - I logged in on a >> friends computer which was infected with a virus - once I logged in, it >> sent itself to all of my address book and randomly generated addresses >> (exactly 500 total) - AOL canceled my account but I called them and got >> it straightened out and then canceled the account myself - I just wanted >> to make sure they knew I hadn't done that on purpose. I then got DSL >> which is wonderful speedwise, but I don't really download enough to >> warrant the expense, however, when I install something like Xilinx or >> Altera web editions, it comes in handy. >> >> Anyway, it could have been one of those evil little virus' that got you. >> I don't know why people do that - it's never made any >> sense to me. I'd rather help people, not hurt them. Have a good day - >> John >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Warns" >> To: ; ; >> ; ; "April" >> ; ; >> ; "russ" ; "Didier Brival" >> ; "Tony Cascio" ; >> "Chuck Chiles" ; "St. Paul Lutheran Church" >> ; ; >> ; "Casey Collins" ; "Al Corbi" >> ; "Tim Costello" ; >> "Winifred Creamer" ; "Dan Daker" >> ; "Haband Deals" ; "Dex" >> ; ; ; "Eric" >> >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:26 PM >> Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked >> >> >>> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than >>> normal. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 >> 01:36:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Fri Jul 9 16:21:31 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked In-Reply-To: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6B5FE5A1-9D16-4542-A003-BE144EF6271C@zaphod.tzo.com> A word of advice: Never use the CC field. Use the BCC field instead. The CC field creates an email with a lot of email addresses available to anyone who receives it. These things are just floating all over the internet, waiting to be harvested by spammers. The BCC field will hide those addresses from all recipients. On Jul 9, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mike Warns wrote: > Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 16:24:05 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:24:05 -0400 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked In-Reply-To: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For future reference, you really don't want to use the To: field for an address list, especially a list of unrelated email addresses such as this. Always use BCC. By putting all these email addresses in an email to each other, you've set the stage for all of them to be sent spam/virus emails if any of them become infected. Additionally, all of the email addresses in your To: field will probably show up on the web in list archives, and of couse every list member now has all of these addresses in their mail client, further exposing these folks to potential spam or virus backwash. Anyway... BCC is your friend :) Never To: unless there is some reason all parties should know that the others have been sent the message (and even then, CC is usually more appropriate). Putting your own email address in the To:, and the email list in BCC is the standard practice. -Aaron On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Mike Warns wrote: > Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 16:42:36 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:42:36 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net><059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> <24F31F9C-8815-45AF-B63B-AB3FF372AB01@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <70F50C2DE4BC4EA98B8369B7D33A4838@hackersafa71ff> I have used EPROMs for a variety of logic functions. I once used one to remap a keyboard matrix on one of my older vintage computing projects. I have a giant supply of GALs though - I bought a bunch in bulk - 16V8's and 22V10's. I'm using a 22V10 in the 8-Slot MPI. I can give you all of the specifics of Tandy's MPI: It's just a set of buffers on the Address Lines and some of the control lines. Reset is buffered one way, so a Cartridge can't reset the coco - I'd like to devise a "bi-directional' buffer on the reset line... A bi-directional buffer on the data bus which is enabled on: CTS* (a read only select for the external cartridge ROM area $C000 up), SLENB* (a signal that disables the CoCo's internal 74LS138 - if a cartridge asserts this signal, it can take over an area of the coco memory normally used by other internal peripherals), and $FF40-$FF7F (the last official area assigned for CoCo I/O expansion). There is a latch and buffer forming an 8-bit readback latch (register) at $FF7F. Writing to this area selects the slot that has CTS*/CART* and SCS* signal. Basically, the upper 4 bits point to the slot for CTS*/CART* and the lower 4-bits point to cart that has SCS*. As you can see, the design actually allows for a total of 16 slots, but this is NOT practical - the buffers would soon be overloaded exceeding their fan-out capacity - honestly, I think 8-slots is pushing it. A 1-of-4 decoder has CTS* as it's enable and the MSB (only the first two bits in Tandy's MPI) of the slot select register as the A and B inputs. This Routes CTS* to one of the 4 slots. Similarly, the same is done for SCS*, but select is made by the LSB. Finally, a 4 to 1 MUX takes in the CART* interrupt and routes the one from the slot selected by the MSB (CTS*) of slot select register back to the CoCo. As Gene Heskett pointed out, many people have bypassed the CART* selection by wiring all the CART* interrupts together (WIRE-ORed) and back to the CoCo - this is almost a requirement for OS-9 to not lose characters from, say, an RS-232 Pak. My 8-slot design allows you to selectively bypass the interrupt on a per-slot basis. There is also the slot select switch - on power up or reset, the MPI points both SCS* and CTS*/CART* to the slot selected by the switch. After a write to the $FF7F register, the switch is disabled until reset or power is cycled. That's about it - it's an extrememly simple design, so when I was asked to clone it, I was relatively certain that I could do so rather painlessly. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Rosenbrock" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > Never mind... Without knowing more about the specifics, I think I jumped > in a bit soon. > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. >> >> At least I think a small 1K x 8 ROM should still be available... >> >> On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> >>> James, >>> I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single >>> PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. >>> >>> I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of >>> different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and >>> I'm thinking they are right. >>> >>> There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data >>> buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will >>> keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra >>> features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well >>> as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could >>> receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, >>> otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area >>> can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should >>> only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is >>> available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x >>> (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most >>> flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% >>> compatibility with the Tandy MPI. >>> >>> I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and >>> allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. >>> I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep >>> my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you >>> folks as well. >>> >>> In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard >>> with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that >>> would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be >>> needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach >>> completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are >>> any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a >>> holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) >>> >>> I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, >>> and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work >>> by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all >>> thru) >>> >>> Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to >>> me - I'm always glad to help. >>> >>> -John >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" >>> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >>> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >>>>> How small is small? >>>> >>>> Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for >>>> the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit >>>> into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, >>>> movable jumpers would be fine. >>>> >>>> The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as >>>> possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I >>>> can to reduce system footprint. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> James Dessart >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Coco mailing list >>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 >>> 01:36:00 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 16:44:07 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:44:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6B5FE5A1-9D16-4542-A003-BE144EF6271C@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <360051BAE7914B408092B00C725E19C7@hackersafa71ff> Good point - if I had hit reply all instead of just reply, all of his buddies would have got the email too :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Rosenbrock" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] My email was hacked >A word of advice: Never use the CC field. Use the BCC field instead. > > The CC field creates an email with a lot of email addresses available to > anyone who receives it. These things are just floating all over the > internet, waiting to be harvested by spammers. > > The BCC field will hide those addresses from all recipients. > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mike Warns wrote: > >> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than >> normal. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 19:55:56 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:55:56 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal Message-ID: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> I have posted some of this here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, but I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM Upgrade (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generated PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. Thanks All - John 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com From cappy2112 at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 00:06:08 2010 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 21:06:08 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? Message-ID: Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. Has anyone else had problems? From random.rodder at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 00:08:15 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:08:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would be me.... What are you trying to download and what browser are you using? On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? > I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. > Has anyone else had problems? > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 01:53:51 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:53:51 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal References: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <20D6C32547D34F25AC5A266F41DAC911@hackersafa71ff> I have just finished wire-wrapping a standard 30 pin simm upgrade for the CoCo 3 and am using the SIMMs from my recently acquired Cloud-9 512K upgrade to test it with. So far it is passing all of the tests from the Performance Peripherals 512K Memory Test program. I am using this memory test program because it has a test specifically targeted at testing the memory's ability to retain refresh. As I am now satisfied that this standard wire-wrapped 512K simm upgrade functions properly, I am about to add the 16V8 GAL to the wire-wrapped mess that I now have. This will allow me to test whether or not my refresh equations within the GAL are actually functioning. I will replace the simms with the 3-chip kind and some odd 2-chip ones that I've found. If this test passes, then I'll be able to produce the 2-Meg upgrade. I'll post the results in a half hour or so. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:55 PM Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal >I have posted some of this here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems > with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, but > I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John > > This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a > 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten > this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM Upgrade > (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin > SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story > if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better > formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into > WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as > if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet > to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once > the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you > could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and > Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back > (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generat > ed PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade > intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of > this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping > you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. > > Thanks All - John > 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) > > > > > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 01:58:16 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:58:16 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? References: Message-ID: If you are using one of those weird semi-firewalls such as Peer Guardian 2, they have been known to block access to some ftp's. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Cappellini" To: Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:06 PM Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? > Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? > I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. > Has anyone else had problems? > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 02:02:31 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 01:02:31 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal References: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <46A39A904E5E42F3B9611503AF1EAC77@hackersafa71ff> I have just finished wire-wrapping a standard 30 pin simm upgrade for the CoCo 3 and am using the SIMMs from my recently acquired Cloud-9 512K upgrade to test it with. So far it is passing all of the tests from the Performance Peripherals 512K Memory Test program. I am using this memory test program because it has a test specifically targeted at testing the memory's ability to retain refresh. As I am now satisfied that this standard wire-wrapped 512K simm upgrade functions properly, I am about to add the 16V8 GAL to the wire-wrapped mess that I now have. This will allow me to test whether or not my refresh equations within the GAL are actually functioning. I will replace the simms with the 3-chip kind and some odd 2-chip ones that I've found. If this test passes, then I'll be able to produce the 2-Meg upgrade. I'll post the results in a half hour or so. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:55 PM Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal >I have posted some of this here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems > with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, but > I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John > > This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a > 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten > this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM Upgrade > (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin > SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story > if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better > formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into > WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as > if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet > to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once > the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you > could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and > Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back > (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generat > ed PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade > intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of > this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping > you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. > > Thanks All - John > 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) > > > > > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 03:17:27 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:17:27 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards ThatGoal References: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> <46A39A904E5E42F3B9611503AF1EAC77@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <49217308A5FC402DB83EC10CDBCCF85B@hackersafa71ff> Okay, so I've finished wire-wrapping the contraption. I am able to get the normal startup screen using the 3-chip simms, but when I try to execute the memory test, the computer goes into outer-space. So - the equations need work. I'm headed back to the drawing board... It almost works... but... -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards ThatGoal >I have just finished wire-wrapping a standard 30 pin simm upgrade for the > CoCo 3 and am using the SIMMs from my recently acquired Cloud-9 512K > upgrade > to test it with. So far it is passing all of the tests from the > Performance > Peripherals 512K Memory Test program. I am using this memory test program > because it has a test specifically targeted at testing the memory's > ability > to retain refresh. As I am now satisfied that this standard wire-wrapped > 512K simm upgrade functions properly, I am about to add the 16V8 GAL to > the > wire-wrapped mess that I now have. This will allow me to test whether or > not > my refresh equations within the GAL are actually functioning. I will > replace > the simms with the 3-chip kind and some odd 2-chip ones that I've found. > If > this test passes, then I'll be able to produce the 2-Meg upgrade. I'll > post > the results in a half hour or so. -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:55 PM > Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That > Goal > > >>I have posted some of this here: >> >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com >> >> I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems >> with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, >> but >> I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John >> >> This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a >> 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten >> this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM >> Upgrade >> (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin >> SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story >> if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better >> formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into >> WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as >> if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet >> to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once >> the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you >> could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and >> Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back >> (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generat >> ed PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade >> intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of >> this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping >> you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. >> >> Thanks All - John >> 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 > 13:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 10 03:29:36 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:29:36 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C382160.7060900@aurigae.demon.co.uk> On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a > small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these devices are generally quite expensive. The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any surface mount soldering. Just my 2p/2c :) Phill. From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 10 03:36:57 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:36:57 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> On 10/07/2010 05:06, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? > I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. > Has anyone else had problems? Humm what is the URL of that site ramrodder.com redirects to something that is definatly not CoCo related :) Cheers. Phill. From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 04:00:50 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 03:00:50 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> <4C382160.7060900@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> Putting the whole thing in a CPLD would be the most flexible method. It would allow entire restructuring of the device on the fly. I'll decide soon as to how to proceed - I'm currently engrossed in the memory upgrade, which is being problematic (human error, but I shall not give up) Thanks All - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. > > The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external > programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these devices > are generally quite expensive. > > The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit > programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively > cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are > generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the > XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any > surface mount soldering. > > Just my 2p/2c :) > > Phill. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 08:28:39 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 07:28:39 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? References: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> Yeah - I think it's supposed to be randomrodder.com or coco.randomrodder.com -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:36 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? > On 10/07/2010 05:06, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >> I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >> Has anyone else had problems? > > Humm what is the URL of that site ramrodder.com redirects to something > that is definatly not CoCo related :) > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From random.rodder at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 09:54:55 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:54:55 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: lmao... I didn't notice the spelling errors last night when I responded - too tired. If he's really using that address, that might explain a bunch.... > On 10/07/2010 05:06, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >>> I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >>> Has anyone else had problems? >>> >> >> Humm what is the URL of that site ramrodder.com redirects to something >> that is definatly not CoCo related :) >> >> Cheers. >> >> Phill. >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 > 13:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com Sat Jul 10 09:51:25 2010 From: Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com (Linux Rules) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:51:25 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C387ADD.1070701@austin.rr.com> On 7/10/2010 7:28 AM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Yeah - I think it's supposed to be randomrodder.com or > coco.randomrodder.com > -John From coco.randomrodder.co, I just downloaded properly. (Firefox browser on Win7)........ Site seems to work OK. cheers, johnd From jdaggett at gate.net Sat Jul 10 17:51:07 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:51:07 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. ALmost all new CPLDs are no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still around that both input and output will drive 5 volt TTL logic. They are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level translation to properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. just a thought james On 10 Jul 2010 at 3:00, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Putting the whole thing in a CPLD would be the most flexible method. It > would allow entire restructuring of the device on the fly. I'll decide soon > as to how to proceed - I'm currently engrossed in the memory upgrade, which > is being problematic (human error, but I shall not give up) > Thanks All - John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:29 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > > > > On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a > >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. > > > > The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external > > programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these devices > > are generally quite expensive. > > > > The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit > > programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively > > cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are > > generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the > > XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any > > surface mount soldering. > > > > Just my 2p/2c :) > > > > Phill. > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 > 13:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 18:56:22 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:56:22 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <687573B18F444BC5892533874BA6BC1B@hackersafa71ff> Agreed. I believe it would be best to stick with the suggestions of SMD TTL. Also, I've noted that the transistor circuit that I had intended to power on the ATX supply probably will not work. It needs to be modified so that the collector voltage is from 5VSB of the ATX supply and the base drive should be from 5V of the CoCo for it to properly function (I think). -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. ALmost > all new CPLDs are > no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still around that both input and > output will drive 5 volt TTL > logic. They are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level > translation to > properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. > > just a thought > james > > On 10 Jul 2010 at 3:00, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> Putting the whole thing in a CPLD would be the most flexible method. It >> would allow entire restructuring of the device on the fly. I'll decide >> soon >> as to how to proceed - I'm currently engrossed in the memory upgrade, >> which >> is being problematic (human error, but I shall not give up) >> Thanks All - John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:29 AM >> Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? >> >> >> > On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: >> >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a >> >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. >> > >> > The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external >> > programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these >> > devices >> > are generally quite expensive. >> > >> > The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit >> > programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively >> > cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are >> > generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the >> > XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any >> > surface mount soldering. >> > >> > Just my 2p/2c :) >> > >> > Phill. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 >> 13:36:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2993 - Release Date: 07/10/10 01:36:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 10 19:24:05 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:24:05 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. > ALmost all new CPLDs are no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still > around that both input and output will drive 5 volt TTL logic. They > are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level > translation to properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. Whilst I would generally agree with that that expense is partly offset by the fact that once the board is laid out, if you get something wrong you can often fix it without having to throw the board away and start again, the logic can be re-jigged without having to resort to piggy backing chips, or dead cockroaching them :) Programable logic also often makes the board easier to route as some of the routing can happen inside the PLD etc. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 20:41:10 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:41:10 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> Thanks to all for the input, you are definately helping to shape the future of this product and thanks to Jim and Panos for suggesting this project to me. This is one that I should be able to complete relatively quickly. The RAM upgrade on the other hand is giving me fits... I'll get it though, eventually. Mr. Smith, I downloaded some Dragon Nitros9 images that had your name attached to them, so I reckon you must be a Dragon kind of guy, so I was wondering - I read a document regarding the DragonPlus Upgrade Board. Do you know if schematics exist for this or at least a good memory map for me to work from? I think this would be a great project to clone and make available for both Dragons & CoCo 2's. Also, is there a source of schematics of the Dragon Alpha & Beta? These are two machines I would like to start an effort to clone into an FPGA - I don't have the skills to complete such a thing, but I would love to be part of a team that does :-) Thanks All - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >> The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. >> ALmost all new CPLDs are no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still >> around that both input and output will drive 5 volt TTL logic. They >> are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level >> translation to properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. > > Whilst I would generally agree with that that expense is partly offset > by the fact that once the board is laid out, if you get something wrong > you can often fix it without having to throw the board away and start > again, the logic can be re-jigged without having to resort to piggy > backing chips, or dead cockroaching them :) > > Programable logic also often makes the board easier to route as some of > the routing can happen inside the PLD etc. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > -- > Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! > > "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2993 - Release Date: 07/10/10 01:36:00 From keeper63 at cox.net Sat Jul 10 21:44:08 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:44:08 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Looking for Datasheet (WD2412PH) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3921E8.3090906@cox.net> All: Its a 28-pin DIP IC made by Western Digital in 1982 (according to the copyright on the chip). I assume that it is some kind of floppy or hard drive controller? I tried googling, have come up with nada so far.. I purchased two today from a local suplus dealer; paid a buck or two, IIRC. I am just interested in finding out what it is, and how to (potentially) use it. Any help would be appreciated - I am going to continue searching on Google... -- Andrew L. Ayers, Glendale, Arizona From keeper63 at cox.net Sat Jul 10 21:52:22 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:52:22 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Looking for Datasheet (WD2412PH) In-Reply-To: <4C3921E8.3090906@cox.net> References: <4C3921E8.3090906@cox.net> Message-ID: <4C3923D6.5080103@cox.net> Hmm - finding that it is some kind of 8-bit Time of Day clock chip? Apparently used on old S-100 bus computer like the IMSAI: IMSAI 8080 Still would like the datasheet for it, as I have an Altair I am restoring - and this might go good with it! Andrew wrote: > All: > > Its a 28-pin DIP IC made by Western Digital in 1982 (according to the > copyright on the chip). I assume that it is some kind of floppy or hard > drive controller? I tried googling, have come up with nada so far.. > > I purchased two today from a local suplus dealer; paid a buck or two, > IIRC. I am just interested in finding out what it is, and how to > (potentially) use it. > > Any help would be appreciated - I am going to continue searching on > Google... > > -- Andrew L. Ayers, Glendale, Arizona > From operator at coco3.com Sun Jul 11 01:38:24 2010 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:38:24 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100711053821.D5414D4C0E@qs281.pair.com> At 11:06 PM 7/9/2010, you wrote: >Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >Has anyone else had problems? It's RANDOMRODDER.COM -- ~ Roger Taylor From sales at gimechip.com Sun Jul 11 01:46:42 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:46:42 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? References: <20100711053821.D5414D4C0E@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <2EA070E920A84A888EA85D0E6CDE4411@hackersafa71ff> Yeah, RamRodder.com doesn't have anything to do with our little CoCo - I just checked - had to take an extra blood pressure pill ;-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Taylor" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? > At 11:06 PM 7/9/2010, you wrote: >>Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >>I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >>Has anyone else had problems? > > > It's RANDOMRODDER.COM > > > -- > ~ Roger Taylor > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2995 - Release Date: 07/10/10 14:59:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 11 03:43:43 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:43:43 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C39762F.5040009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> On 11/07/2010 01:41, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Mr. Smith, Err, that should be Harvey-Smith :) > I downloaded some Dragon Nitros9 images that had your > name attached to them, so I reckon you must be a Dragon kind of guy, > so I was wondering - I read a document regarding the DragonPlus > Upgrade Board. Do you know if schematics exist for this or at least a > good memory map for me to work from? I don't think schematics exist yet, however st some point in the future I will be atempting to repair one so I may be able to do some reverse engineering at that point. I believe that there is a technical document that contains a memory map on the dragon archive site : http://archive.worldofdragon.org/ It's in Downloads -> manuals -> Compusense - DragonPlus.zip > I think this would be a great > project to clone and make available for both Dragons & CoCo 2's. Indeed, though it is only supported under OS-9 and Flex, though it strikes me that it should be possible to write a basic driver for it. > Also, is there a source of schematics of the Dragon Alpha & Beta? Alas no, though as I recently obtained an Alpha I am slowly tracing some of it out. The Alpha is basically a Dragon 64 with an additional PIA, an AY-3-8912 for sound and disk control (drive select/motor), and a WD2797 disk controler. It has 1 or 2 built in 3.25" drives and a n additional 6850 to handle the internal modem. However both machines are emulated in Mess, and where possible when writing the emulation I have tried to provide as much documentation in comments as possible. > These are two machines I would like to start an effort to clone into > an FPGA - I don't have the skills to complete such a thing, but I > would love to be part of a team that does :-) To clone the Alpha you don't really need an FPGA, just a donor machine (a Dragon 32 in my case), which I upgraded to 64K, built addon boards to hold the extra PIA & AY-3-8912, serial port and internal disk interface. Though if there was an existing CoCo 1/2 or Dragon 32/64 implementation it could be based on that. The beta however would be much more involved as it has two 6809s, and is a much more complex machine though again the current coco 3 in fpga could be used as a basis. Cheers. Phill. From sales at gimechip.com Sun Jul 11 03:50:20 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:50:20 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk><2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> <4C39762F.5040009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <6FEEDF9ED2A7428A8E41B4E44884EF10@hackersafa71ff> Sorry about getting the name wrong :-) So you did the MESS emulations? COOL I just recently tried them and the beta machine would have been marvelous. I imagine they are rare? Thanks for the info. I'm just looking for projects to keep me designing and working away and the Dragon Beta really looks cool. Does one of the CPU's run just the video, or are they both dedicated to processing power? I imagine OS-9 would scream if that's the case. I would love to find one, but I've probably got a better chance at loacting a dodo bird? :-) Thanks - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 2:43 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > On 11/07/2010 01:41, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> Mr. Smith, > > Err, that should be Harvey-Smith :) > >> I downloaded some Dragon Nitros9 images that had your >> name attached to them, so I reckon you must be a Dragon kind of guy, >> so I was wondering - I read a document regarding the DragonPlus >> Upgrade Board. Do you know if schematics exist for this or at least a >> good memory map for me to work from? > > I don't think schematics exist yet, however st some point in the future > I will be atempting to repair one so I may be able to do some reverse > engineering at that point. I believe that there is a technical document > that contains a memory map on the dragon archive site : > > http://archive.worldofdragon.org/ > > It's in Downloads -> manuals -> Compusense - DragonPlus.zip > >> I think this would be a great >> project to clone and make available for both Dragons & CoCo 2's. > > Indeed, though it is only supported under OS-9 and Flex, though it > strikes me that it should be possible to write a basic driver for it. > >> Also, is there a source of schematics of the Dragon Alpha & Beta? > > Alas no, though as I recently obtained an Alpha I am slowly tracing some > of it out. > > The Alpha is basically a Dragon 64 with an additional PIA, an AY-3-8912 > for sound and disk control (drive select/motor), and a WD2797 disk > controler. It has 1 or 2 built in 3.25" drives and a n additional 6850 > to handle the internal modem. > > However both machines are emulated in Mess, and where possible when > writing the emulation I have tried to provide as much documentation in > comments as possible. > >> These are two machines I would like to start an effort to clone into >> an FPGA - I don't have the skills to complete such a thing, but I >> would love to be part of a team that does :-) > > To clone the Alpha you don't really need an FPGA, just a donor machine > (a Dragon 32 in my case), which I upgraded to 64K, built addon boards to > hold the extra PIA & AY-3-8912, serial port and internal disk interface. > > Though if there was an existing CoCo 1/2 or Dragon 32/64 implementation > it could be based on that. > > The beta however would be much more involved as it has two 6809s, and is > a much more complex machine though again the current coco 3 in fpga > could be used as a basis. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2995 - Release Date: 07/10/10 14:59:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 11 04:25:50 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:25:50 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <6FEEDF9ED2A7428A8E41B4E44884EF10@hackersafa71ff> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk><2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> <4C39762F.5040009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <6FEEDF9ED2A7428A8E41B4E44884EF10@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C39800E.1050305@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Sorry about getting the name wrong :-) No probs :) > So you did the MESS emulations? COOL Indeed. > I just recently tried them and the beta machine would have been > marvelous. I imagine they are rare? Yep, there where IIRC only ever 3 beta machines in existance, the whereabouts of 2 are known, and only one of those is known to be working. > Thanks for the info. I'm just looking for projects to keep me > designing and working away and the Dragon Beta really looks cool. > Does one of the CPU's run just the video, or are they both dedicated > to processing power? I imagine OS-9 would scream if that's the case. One is the main processor and the other is used basically as an I/O controler, drives the disk etc. > I would love to find one, but I've probably got a better chance at > loacting a dodo bird? :-) See comments above :) Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From rcrislip at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 11 23:07:44 2010 From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 23:07:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> On Thursday, July 08, 2010 01:41:43 pm Brian Blake wrote: > Try the direct link. > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar > > I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, > Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would > expect... > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Well that was weird... It's fixed now. > > > > Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns > > the error I sent in the last message. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 07:45:22 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 07:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jul 2010, richec wrote: > On Thursday, July 08, 2010 01:41:43 pm Brian Blake wrote: >> Try the direct link. >> >> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >> >> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >> expect... >> >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>> >>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns >>> the error I sent in the last message. > > Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of causing _anything_ to malfunction. -- From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 07:55:30 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 07:55:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: Is it working for you now? On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010, richec wrote: > > On Thursday, July 08, 2010 01:41:43 pm Brian Blake wrote: >> >>> Try the direct link. >>> >>> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>> >>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >>> expect... >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>> >>>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just >>>> returns >>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>> >>> >> Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. >> > > As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of > causing _anything_ to malfunction. > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 08:17:05 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > Is it working for you now? Why, yes, thanks! Both the direct link and the link embedded in the article are fine now. I'm curious, what was the difference other than changing the file to a *.rar archive? >>>> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>>> >>>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >>>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >>>> expect... >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>>> >>>>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just >>>>> returns >>>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>>> >>>> >>> Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. >>> >> >> As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of >> causing _anything_ to malfunction. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 08:48:14 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:48:14 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: All I did was delete the file and re-copy it to the server. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Is it working for you now? >> > > Why, yes, thanks! Both the direct link and the link embedded in the > article are fine now. I'm curious, what was the difference other than > changing the file to a *.rar archive? > > > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>>>> >>>>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with >>>>> Chrome, >>>>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one >>>>> would >>>>> expect... >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>>>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>>>> >>>>>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just >>>>>> returns >>>>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. >>>> >>>> >>> As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of >>> causing _anything_ to malfunction. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From diegoba at adinet.com.uy Mon Jul 12 20:58:44 2010 From: diegoba at adinet.com.uy (Diego Barizo) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:58:44 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> CW Gordon wrote: > Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but is > it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect > the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? > > I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the web. The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either Drivewire or CoCoNet. Diego From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 21:11:46 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:11:46 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Diego Barizo wrote: > CW Gordon wrote: >> >> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but >> is >> it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect >> the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? >> >> > > I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. > No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the web. > The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either > Drivewire or CoCoNet. > It's worth clarifying that neither DW or Coconet will allow one to "browse the internet". DW provides telnet, smtp, a web *server* (not a browser), direct TCP access for outbound and incoming connections, and virtual modems over TCP. A couple IRC clients are in the works but not ready at this point, and I've got a twitter client I keep meaning to finish. Both CocoNet and DW also provide a mechanism for downloading content from URLs, but this is only a way to retrieve some bytes. Quite useful for mounting remote disk images or pulling files across the network onto a local disk, but we are talking about transferring bytes, not rendering their contents. While it would certainly be possible to write a web browser using DriveWire's TCP mechanisms, simply getting the content to the coco is trivial compared to rendering it in any meaningful way. I am not aware of any projects attempting to do this, and not sure it would ever make sense anyway. Considering the limitations of the CoCo's graphics modes and memory space, implementing a web browser might be a fun project but it's never going to be something you'd really want to use :) On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be done quite well on the CoCo. The IRC clients I've seen in development look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as modern clients on modern PCs. -Aaron > Diego > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 22:42:30 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:42:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: And let's not forget internet BBS'ing!!! On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Diego Barizo > wrote: > > CW Gordon wrote: > >> > >> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, > but > >> is > >> it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I > connect > >> the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? > >> > >> > > > > I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. > > No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the > web. > > The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either > > Drivewire or CoCoNet. > > > > It's worth clarifying that neither DW or Coconet will allow one to > "browse the internet". DW provides telnet, smtp, a web *server* (not > a browser), direct TCP access for outbound and incoming connections, > and virtual modems over TCP. A couple IRC clients are in the works > but not ready at this point, and I've got a twitter client I keep > meaning to finish. Both CocoNet and DW also provide a mechanism for > downloading content from URLs, but this is only a way to retrieve some > bytes. Quite useful for mounting remote disk images or pulling files > across the network onto a local disk, but we are talking about > transferring bytes, not rendering their contents. > > While it would certainly be possible to write a web browser using > DriveWire's TCP mechanisms, simply getting the content to the coco is > trivial compared to rendering it in any meaningful way. I am not > aware of any projects attempting to do this, and not sure it would > ever make sense anyway. Considering the limitations of the CoCo's > graphics modes and memory space, implementing a web browser might be a > fun project but it's never going to be something you'd really want to > use :) On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be > done quite well on the CoCo. The IRC clients I've seen in development > look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as > modern clients on modern PCs. > > -Aaron > > > > Diego > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 00:53:43 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:53:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] yet another drivewire4 beta version Message-ID: Available here: http://sites.google.com/site/drivewire4/beta This version improves MIDI performance quite a bit. You can play simple files directly off a DW disk and back out the bitbanger as MIDI. More complex songs (pretty much any cmf0 file) will still require that the file is on a local disk or in memory to play well. I've tweaked the synthesizer translation profiles to help songs arranged for the Yamaha PSS480 and a couple Casios sound better when played on GM devices, and you can switch profiles in real time now, no need to restart the song to catch the initial instrument assignments. A nice side effect of the performance changes are that latency in telnet and internet BBSing is reduced as well. I've also switched the disk cache to use a dynamic array, so memory use should be much improved and loading larger disk images is possible. I've added memory usage information to the "dw s s" command so you can get an idea of how much we're using. If you need more than your platform provides by default, you can allocate additional ram to the DW server on the command line as so: java -Xmx512m -jar DriveWire.jar This would grant 512MB to DriveWire. the default is 256MB on most systems, although its only 128MB on my debian linux dev box. There are a few other little improvements here and there. As always, just let me know if it blows up your computer or causes hair loss. -Aaron From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 07:48:55 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:48:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be > done quite well on the CoCo. The IRC clients I've seen in development > look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as > modern clients on modern PCs. Indeed. There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. Perhaps the IP stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? -- From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 08:09:06 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:09:06 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be >> done quite well on the CoCo. ?The IRC clients I've seen in development >> look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as >> modern clients on modern PCs. > > Indeed. ?There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. > One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. ?Perhaps the IP > stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? > It's a possibility. There was an effort to port contiki to the CoCo but it seems to have been abandoned. Personally, I never saw contiki on coco as all that interesting, since it is a completely different OS. I'm more interested in bringing TCP/IP to our native OS9. From what I've seen, a native OS9 IP stack may not be the best way to do this. Allowing the CoCo to control an external IP stack, whether that is located in a rompak or on another PC, seems to be more practical. That's the direction I'm going in new projects for now. > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From skwirl42 at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 11:34:11 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:34:11 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> Indeed. ?There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. >> One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. ?Perhaps the IP >> stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? > It's a possibility. ?There was an effort to port contiki to the CoCo > but it seems to have been abandoned. Yep, it is. Mainly due to my lack of hardware expertise. 6809 assembler would be a bad idea, IMHO. It's in C, there are C compilers out there, it's just a matter of someone getting some ethernet or other hardware going with a driver for the uIP stack. > Personally, I never saw contiki on coco as all that interesting, since > it is a completely different OS. ?I'm more interested in bringing > TCP/IP to our native OS9. ?From what I've seen, a native OS9 IP stack > may not be the best way to do this. uIP is the TCP/IP stack that Contiki runs with. Porting it to OS9, with some sort of IPC communication for client applications, would not be hard. The stack, ethernet card driver and a very simple http server fit in 8K of code and data. This is on an ATmega8 chip, which I've tested myself. The ethernet hardware I was using has a very large address space that I had been hoping to reduce for use on the CoCo. However, there are SPI-based ethernet chips now, like the one used in this Instructable: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-credit-card-sized-Ethernet-Arduino-compatable-co/ The chip is also pretty cheap, at under $5 Canadian, on Digikey. Others have written SPI code for the CoCo, so adapting that to interface with the ethernet hardware would be the easiest route. Main problem is the level conversion, since the chip runs off a 3V supply. I won't be doing it, so I leave it as an exercise to the reader. > Allowing the CoCo to control an external IP stack, whether that is > located in a rompak or on another PC, seems to be > more practical. ?That's the direction I'm going in new projects for now. Practical in terms of implementation, but as I see it uninteresting. When a modern computer or mcu has to handle the IP stack already, why bother putting it through the CoCo? -- James Dessart From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 11:55:43 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:55:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:34 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >>> Indeed. ?There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. >>> One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. ?Perhaps the IP >>> stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? >> It's a possibility. ?There was an effort to port contiki to the CoCo >> but it seems to have been abandoned. > > Yep, it is. Mainly due to my lack of hardware expertise. 6809 > assembler would be a bad idea, IMHO. It's in C, there are C compilers > out there, it's just a matter of someone getting some ethernet or > other hardware going with a driver for the uIP stack. > >> Personally, I never saw contiki on coco as all that interesting, since >> it is a completely different OS. ?I'm more interested in bringing >> TCP/IP to our native OS9. ?From what I've seen, a native OS9 IP stack >> may not be the best way to do this. > > uIP is the TCP/IP stack that Contiki runs with. Porting it to OS9, > with some sort of IPC communication for client applications, would not > be hard. > > The stack, ethernet card driver and a very simple http server fit in > 8K of code and data. This is on an ATmega8 chip, which I've tested > myself. The ethernet hardware I was using has a very large address > space that I had been hoping to reduce for use on the CoCo. However, > there are SPI-based ethernet chips now, like the one used in this > Instructable: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-credit-card-sized-Ethernet-Arduino-compatable-co/ > > The chip is also pretty cheap, at under $5 Canadian, on Digikey. > Others have written SPI code for the CoCo, so adapting that to > interface with the ethernet hardware would be the easiest route. Main > problem is the level conversion, since the chip runs off a 3V supply. > > I won't be doing it, so I leave it as an exercise to the reader. > >> Allowing the CoCo to control an external IP stack, whether that is >> located in a rompak or on another PC, seems to be >> more practical. ?That's the direction I'm going in new projects for now. > > Practical in terms of implementation, but as I see it uninteresting. > When a modern computer or mcu has to handle the IP stack already, why > bother putting it through the CoCo? > I suppose it just depends on whether your interest is in the IP stack itself, or in using TCP/IP to do things. I can see how writing or porting an existing IP stack to the coco would be an interesting project, but to an end user who wants to "do internet stuff" or to an application programmer who wants to "write internet stuff", whether the stack is implemented in the 6809 or in a $5 chip in their network hardware makes little difference. I'm sort of lazy, and not particularly interested in the stack itself, so using an existing implementation is what I prefer. I do plan on attempting at least to make any interface I use very hardware agnostic. This should also mean that it would be possible to use any user space tools or applications written for an external IP stack just as easily with an internal one, if such a thing is created. Ideally, we can be compatible with both approaches and a wide variety of solutions. > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com Tue Jul 13 12:56:42 2010 From: daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com (Dave Kelly) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:56:42 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: <4C3C9ACA.6010500@embarqmail.com> I have a book, "Linux IP Stacks". Published in November of 1999 by CoriolisOpen Press. It has 42752 lines of C code, nearly 450 pages. Also 130 pages of commentary. I have 'tarred' the CD and can upload it if someone thinks it might be useful for this project. If the code looks useful, I can send the book to someone to scan in the commentary and post. Dave ps: Where can I upload a file this size? -rw-r--r-- 1 dave dave 55372745 2010-07-13 10:36 IPStack.tar From badfrog at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 14:54:47 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:54:47 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: One could always telnet to a linux/unix machine, and then use the Lynx text only browser. (But probably not what the original poster wanted) On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Diego Barizo wrote: >> CW Gordon wrote: >>> >>> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but >>> is >>> it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect >>> the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? >>> >>> >> >> I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. >> No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the web. >> The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either >> Drivewire or CoCoNet. >> > > It's worth clarifying that neither DW or Coconet will allow one to > "browse the internet". ?DW provides telnet, smtp, a web *server* (not > a browser), direct TCP access for outbound and incoming connections, > and virtual modems over TCP. ?A couple IRC clients are in the works > but not ready at this point, and I've got a twitter client I keep > meaning to finish. ?Both CocoNet and DW also provide a mechanism for > downloading content from URLs, but this is only a way to retrieve some > bytes. ?Quite useful for mounting remote disk images or pulling files > across the network onto a local disk, but we are talking about > transferring bytes, not rendering their contents. > > While it would certainly be possible to write a web browser using > DriveWire's TCP mechanisms, simply getting the content to the coco is > trivial compared to rendering it in any meaningful way. ?I am not > aware of any projects attempting to do this, and not sure it would > ever make sense anyway. ?Considering the limitations of the CoCo's > graphics modes and memory space, implementing a web browser might be a > fun project but it's never going to be something you'd really want to > use :) ?On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be > done quite well on the CoCo. ?The IRC clients I've seen in development > look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as > modern clients on modern PCs. > > -Aaron > > >> Diego >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 14 05:09:06 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:09:06 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: <4C3C9ACA.6010500@embarqmail.com> References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> <4C3C9ACA.6010500@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <4C3D7EB2.9000602@iinet.net.au> Dave Kelly wrote: > I have a book, "Linux IP Stacks". Published in November of 1999 by > CoriolisOpen Press. > It has 42752 lines of C code, nearly 450 pages. Also 130 pages of > commentary. > I have 'tarred' the CD and can upload it if someone thinks it might be > useful for this project. If the code looks useful, I can send the book > to someone to scan in the commentary and post. There much smaller IP stacks available. Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 08:55:13 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:55:13 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I suppose it just depends on whether your interest is in the IP stack > itself, or in using TCP/IP to do things. My interest is in having the CoCo operate independently of any other processor. I'm not sure what use a twitter client for the CoCo is, apart from the cool factor, but having it running off an IP stack on the CoCo itself is even cooler. Maybe if I get the motivation and can fit my CoCo into my next apartment I'll work on that. An SPI-based driver would be much easier to program than trying to fold a 32-byte address space into something reasonable for a CoCo with other cards, and much simpler, hardware-wise. > I can see how writing or porting an existing IP stack to the coco > would be an interesting project, but to an > end user who wants to "do internet stuff" or to an application > programmer who wants to "write internet stuff", > whether the stack is implemented in the 6809 or in a $5 chip in their > network hardware makes little difference. The chips that implement an actual TCP/IP stack are more expensive than that. The $5 chip I was talking about is just a plain, old ethernet chip, just like you would find in a network card on a PC. -- James Dessart From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:25:40 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:25:40 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 8:55 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> I suppose it just depends on whether your interest is in the IP stack >> itself, or in using TCP/IP to do things. > > My interest is in having the CoCo operate independently of any other > processor. I'm not sure what use a twitter client for the CoCo is, > apart from the cool factor, but having it running off an IP stack on > the CoCo itself is even cooler. Maybe if I get the motivation and can > fit my CoCo into my next apartment I'll work on that. An SPI-based > driver would be much easier to program than trying to fold a 32-byte > address space into something reasonable for a CoCo with other cards, > and much simpler, hardware-wise. > you write it, I'll use it :) >> I can see how writing or porting an existing IP stack to the coco >> would be an interesting project, but to an >> end user who wants to "do internet stuff" or to an application >> programmer who wants to "write internet stuff", >> whether the stack is implemented in the 6809 or in a $5 chip in their >> network hardware makes little difference. > > The chips that implement an actual TCP/IP stack are more expensive > than that. The $5 chip I was talking about is just a plain, old > ethernet chip, just like you would find in a network card on a PC. > Actually IP on a chip can be found in the $5 range. I wasn't referring to the chip you mentioned. In the past couple months I've looked at one TCP/IP stack w/ SPI for $4 in single quantity, and an 802.11 module that includes TCP/IP for free. > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:34:08 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:34:08 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:55 PM, James Dessart wrote: > An SPI-based driver would be much easier to program than trying to fold a > 32-byte > address space into something reasonable for a CoCo with other cards, > and much simpler, hardware-wise. > > To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet controller , a 'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be relatively slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able to multitask as nicely as possible. If you are developing say a CPLD solution that looked similar to a motorola SPI microcontroller interface using 3 address locations that eases processor burden , (even better if you implemented something like QSPI) then cool , but you're moving away from 'simple' in that respect. > The chips that implement an actual TCP/IP stack are more expensive > than that. You still use the $5 chip , add a $3 PIC that will talk to it and compile the free tcp/ip stack microchip offers for there range of microcontrollers. Add a $4-5 6551 or (16450) , some decode logic and link this to your PIC . I dont think the price difference between this solution and your CPLD solution is going to set you broke. You send serial commands to the 6551 , which are interpreted by you PIC , these commands are high level and take advantage of the tcp/ip implementation on the PIC. Yes it's cool to do it all at a lower level but I wonder how realistic it would be to implement considering the constraints you are working with ? My experience is that you really do need a fair chuck of memory to implement a 'decent' stack and applications , i'm not sure how this would all fit under OS/9 for example , others might like to comment. > The $5 chip I was talking about is just a plain, old > ethernet chip, just like you would find in a network card on a PC. > > You mentioned a SPI driver ,so I assumed you were talking about using a enc28j60, PC ethernet chips are generally bus based so i'm confused , wasn't that your 32 byte memory problem ? From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:52:35 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:52:35 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:34 AM, coco wal wrote: > To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet > controller , a ?'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be relatively > slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a > coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a > 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able to > multitask as ?nicely as possible. Good point. The SPI driver would be for the enc28j60, yes. The one with the 32 byte address space is the RTL8019, which I have on a bread-board compatible module. There's a uIP driver for it on the ATmega series, which is why I had chosen it. But with the CoCo's small IO space, 32 bytes is a lot. So some sort of logic would have to be introduced to choose which address in that space through some sort of register. While I have an idea of how to do that, and could probably sketch out a basic block diagram, I have no idea how to properly implement that design physically as a card for the CoCo. -- James Dessart From curtisboyle at sasktel.net Wed Jul 14 11:01:03 2010 From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:01:03 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: Would you need to map the entire 32 bytes into the Coco's I/O at once? Or could you have a buffer (similar to no-halt disk controllers), that you map into 1 (or 2) bytes, and "stream-read" off of to collect (or write) the buffer contents? I still like the way the Elimimator controller from FHL worked... it latched into 2 consecutive memory locations, but presented the same byte on both, until a read started. That way, you could use TFM on a 6309 on one memory location for maximum speed, or do a LDD from 2 consecutive memory locations on a 6809, for maximum speed on that chip. On Jul 14, 2010, at 8:52 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:34 AM, coco wal wrote: > >> To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet >> controller , a 'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be relatively >> slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a >> coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a >> 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able to >> multitask as nicely as possible. > > Good point. > > The SPI driver would be for the enc28j60, yes. The one with the 32 > byte address space is the RTL8019, which I have on a bread-board > compatible module. There's a uIP driver for it on the ATmega series, > which is why I had chosen it. But with the CoCo's small IO space, 32 > bytes is a lot. So some sort of logic would have to be introduced to > choose which address in that space through some sort of register. > While I have an idea of how to do that, and could probably sketch out > a basic block diagram, I have no idea how to properly implement that > design physically as a card for the CoCo. > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:06:50 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:06:50 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 12:52 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:34 AM, coco wal wrote: > > > To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet > > controller , a 'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be > relatively > > slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a > > coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a > > 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able > to > > multitask as nicely as possible. > > Good point. > > The SPI driver would be for the enc28j60, yes. The one with the 32 > byte address space is the RTL8019, which I have on a bread-board > compatible module. There's a uIP driver for it on the ATmega series, > which is why I had chosen it. But with the CoCo's small IO space, 32 > bytes is a lot. So some sort of logic would have to be introduced to > choose which address in that space through some sort of register. > While I have an idea of how to do that, and could probably sketch out > a basic block diagram, I have no idea how to properly implement that > design physically as a card for the CoCo. > > James , one idea which might be worth trying instead of bit banging or using a serial link to a microcontroller might be to do something similar to the way the SSC talks to its internal microcontroller. You could say setup some decoded latches , one for write data , one for read data and another for status . This could connect to a larger pinned atmel / microchip and form a pseudo bus interface . You have extra overhead when reading and writing since you need to check when the slave microcontroller has received data or is read to send , but i think it would still be faster then bit banging a few latches to implement SPI. I have used the uIP on a 8K atmel in the past , it worked fine , just didnt have the enough space to implement all that i wanted , but thats just an processor selection issue. And i didnt mean to sound discouraging in my previous email , I would love to see what you are suggesting implemented , just playing devils advocate on the issues you may face. From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:09:40 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:09:40 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:01 AM, L. Curtis Boyle wrote: > Would you need to map the entire 32 bytes into the Coco's I/O at once? Or > could you have a buffer (similar to no-halt disk controllers), that you map > into 1 (or 2) bytes, and "stream-read" off of to collect (or write) the > buffer contents? I still like the way the Elimimator controller from FHL > worked... it latched into 2 consecutive memory locations, but presented the > same byte on both, until a read started. That way, you could use TFM on a > 6309 on one memory location for maximum speed, or do a LDD from 2 > consecutive memory locations on a 6809, for maximum speed on that chip. > > Thats an excellent solution , its implementation would be a great project for many modern devices that we could interface to the coco , the memory address space limitation we face really is a PITA. From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:18:14 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:18:14 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:09 PM, coco wal wrote: >> Would you need to map the entire 32 bytes into the Coco's I/O at once? Or >> could you have a buffer (similar to no-halt disk controllers), that you map >> into 1 (or 2) bytes, and "stream-read" off of to collect (or write) the >> buffer contents? I still like the way the Elimimator controller from FHL >> worked... it latched into 2 consecutive memory locations, but presented the >> same byte on both, until a read started. That way, you could use TFM on a >> 6309 on one memory location for maximum speed, or do a LDD from 2 >> consecutive memory locations on a 6809, for maximum speed on that chip. >> >> Thats an excellent solution , its implementation ?would be a great project > for many modern devices that we could interface to the coco , the memory > address space limitation we face really is a PITA. The actual data coming and going from the controller is only 2 bytes of the entire space. There are 16 bytes for data and 16 bytes of registers, I believe. The idea would be to have one latch to select which byte to address and the other to access the actual byte. -- James Dessart From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:24:24 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:24:24 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:18 AM, James Dessart wrote: > > The actual data coming and going from the controller is only 2 bytes > of the entire space. There are 16 bytes for data and 16 bytes of > registers, I believe. The idea would be to have one latch to select > which byte to address and the other to access the actual byte. > > Thats not too bad , so your down to 4 maybe 6 address bytes for a bussed Ethernet controller ? Using the indirect approach that you mentioned would still be much more efficient then a talking to a SPI Ethernet controller . Again this is all academic , i think you would struggle to keep up with the network data no matter what interface was implemented :) From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:42:18 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:42:18 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, coco wal wrote: > Thats not too bad , so your down to 4 maybe 6 address bytes for a > bussed Ethernet controller ? Using the indirect approach that you mentioned > would still be much more efficient then a talking to a > SPI Ethernet controller . Again this is all academic , i think you would > struggle to keep up with the network data no matter what interface was > implemented :) The C64 can handle it, apparently. That's the system Contiki was originally designed for. -- James Dessart From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:04:43 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 02:04:43 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:42 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, coco wal wrote: > > > Thats not too bad , so your down to 4 maybe 6 address bytes for a > > bussed Ethernet controller ? Using the indirect approach that you > mentioned > > would still be much more efficient then a talking to a > > SPI Ethernet controller . Again this is all academic , i think you would > > struggle to keep up with the network data no matter what interface was > > implemented :) > > The C64 can handle it, apparently. That's the system Contiki was > originally designed for. > . > . Sorry my reply was badly worded , I have no doubt it would work and be usable , what i meant was not sure that you could use the full bandwidth available on the network given the interfacing solutions proposed. If you could DMA the data in rather then having to play with latches to decode status registers etc it would be kinda cool. From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:11:19 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:11:19 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines Message-ID: Hi! Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? Thank you! _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:25:39 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:25:39 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:04 PM, coco wal wrote: > Sorry my reply was badly worded , I have no doubt it would work and be > usable , ?what i meant was not sure that you could use the full bandwidth > available on the network given the interfacing solutions proposed. If you > could DMA the data in rather then having to play with latches to decode > status registers etc it would be kinda cool. Yeah, there'd be no way to use the full bandwidth. The CoCo just can't handle that much data, even if it were just reading it from RAM. -- James Dessart From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 14 12:19:18 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:19:18 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines References: Message-ID: You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then use the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ etc. Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and DLOAD only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - executing DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you store a 0 at address 113). Color BASIC Unravelled should provide you with most of the details if you examine the code for DLOAD. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:11 AM Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines > > Hi! > > > > Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's > subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? > > > > > > Thank you! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3004 - Release Date: 07/14/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 14 12:20:35 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:20:35 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines Message-ID: <28C311B803084FD7B0DCECA9AB1BF2FD@hackersafa71ff> that should have said LINE INPUT #-3,A$ :-) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] dload subroutines > You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then use > the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ > etc. Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and > DLOAD only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - > executing DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you > store a 0 at address 113). > > Color BASIC Unravelled should provide you with most of the details if you > examine the code for DLOAD. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:11 AM > Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines > > >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >> Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's >> subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thank you! >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >> https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3004 - Release Date: 07/14/10 > 01:36:00 > From mechacoco at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 15:12:58 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:12:58 -0600 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/14/10, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then use > the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ etc. > Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and DLOAD > only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - executing > DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you store a 0 at > address 113). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" >> >> Hi! >> >> Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's >> subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? >> --- The OPEN statement does not accept -3 as a device number. It will issue a ?DN ERROR. The subroutine at 36284 ($8DBC) is available on all CoCos with Extended Basic, including the CoCo 3. It attempts to read a single byte from the serial port. If successful, the byte is returned in A and the Z flag will be set. There are two variables in low RAM that affect its operation: DLBAUD $00E6 (230) Contains the delay value for the bit rate (176 = 300 bps; 44 = 1200 bps). TIMOUT $00E7 (231) Indicates how long to wait for the byte before timing out (in increments of roughly 2 seconds). On the CoCo 3, these locations have been reused as HRMODE and HRWIDTH. You will need to save, setup and restore these locations around calls to $8DBC. Darren From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 14 15:51:17 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:51:17 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines References: Message-ID: <40BC5841F0F9427590817423B8F19D63@hackersafa71ff> That's what I get for stopping reading at page 13 - 13 is an unlucky number :-) I was just looking at page 13 of the color basic unravelled - it made it seem as if it were a standard I/O function using CHRINP or console in. alas, it wasn't.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren A" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] dload subroutines > On 7/14/10, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then >> use >> the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ >> etc. >> Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and >> DLOAD >> only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - >> executing >> DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you store a 0 at >> address 113). >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" >>> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's >>> subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? >>> > > --- > > The OPEN statement does not accept -3 as a device number. It will > issue a ?DN ERROR. > > The subroutine at 36284 ($8DBC) is available on all CoCos with > Extended Basic, including the CoCo 3. It attempts to read a single > byte from the serial port. If successful, the byte is returned in A > and the Z flag will be set. There are two variables in low RAM that > affect its operation: > > DLBAUD $00E6 (230) > Contains the delay value for the bit rate (176 = 300 bps; 44 = 1200 bps). > > TIMOUT $00E7 (231) > Indicates how long to wait for the byte before timing out (in > increments of roughly 2 seconds). > > On the CoCo 3, these locations have been reused as HRMODE and HRWIDTH. > You will need to save, setup and restore these locations around calls > to $8DBC. > > Darren > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3004 - Release Date: 07/14/10 01:36:00 From devries.bob at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 20:09:09 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:09:09 +1000 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions Message-ID: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> [dons flame proof jacket] While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector sizes. This would make it usable with other computers, provided that client-side drivers could be written for those computers. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia -- Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of one's native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer. Edsger W.Dijkstra, 18 June 1975 From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 21:41:27 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > [dons flame proof jacket] > > While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written > exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more > versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector > sizes. > > This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > client-side drivers could be written for those computers. I was thinking about what it would take to network an Apple IIe from DW. The common super-serial card can do 57.6 k baud for sure and perhaps 115. The IIGS should be capable of 230, since native localtalk transport operates at that speed. Something tells me that the game port on a IIe can be bit-banged considerably faster, but it's been a while. I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in the clientside driver. Steve -- From devries.bob at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 21:54:57 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:54:57 +1000 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> As I understand it from reading the documents, the drivewire server currently only grabs 256 bytes when it is asked to get a sector. If the disk image is supposed to be based on 1024 byte sectors, then the server would need some kind of setting to select the sector size, or the client side would need to tell the server what size sectors it is expecting. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Hirsch To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] drivewire suggestions On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > [dons flame proof jacket] > > While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written > exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more > versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector > sizes. > > This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > client-side drivers could be written for those computers. I was thinking about what it would take to network an Apple IIe from DW. The common super-serial card can do 57.6 k baud for sure and perhaps 115. The IIGS should be capable of 230, since native localtalk transport operates at that speed. Something tells me that the game port on a IIe can be bit-banged considerably faster, but it's been a while. I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in the clientside driver. Steve -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 22:41:01 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:41:01 -0400 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: There is really nothing CoCo centric in the DriveWire protocol for disks. The virtual serial portion does include a few OS9 specific features, such as tracking some escape character settings in the SCF driver and sending notifications of closed network connections that are in turn used to send OS9 signals, but these do not have to be used at all, or they could be used in another way on another platform quite easily. Changing the DriveWire 4 code to use a sector size other than 256 bytes is trivial. I'll add a setting for sector size in the next release. As long as requests can be translated into a linear set of logical sectors, and the total # of sectors will fit in 24 bits, I would not expect any problems. If someone creates a platform side interface for another system, I'll make sure DriveWire supports it. -Aaron On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Bob Devries wrote: > As I understand it from reading the documents, the drivewire server currently only grabs 256 bytes when it is asked to get a sector. If the disk image is supposed to be based on 1024 byte sectors, then the server would need some kind of setting to select the sector size, or the client side would need to tell the server what size sectors it is expecting. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Steven Hirsch > ?To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > ?Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:41 AM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] drivewire suggestions > > > ?On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > > ?> [dons flame proof jacket] > ?> > ?> While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written > ?> exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more > ?> versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector > ?> sizes. > ?> > ?> This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > ?> client-side drivers could be written for those computers. > > ?I was thinking about what it would take to network an Apple IIe from DW. > ?The common super-serial card can do 57.6 k baud for sure and perhaps 115. > ?The IIGS should be capable of 230, since native localtalk transport > ?operates at that speed. > > ?Something tells me that the game port on a IIe can be bit-banged > ?considerably faster, but it's been a while. > > ?I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in > ?the clientside driver. > > ?Steve > > > > > ?-- > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 16 07:34:17 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:34:17 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:09:09AM +1000, Bob Devries wrote: > > This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > client-side drivers could be written for those computers. A lot (most?) of the other 8-bit machines already have software to treat a PC as a disk drive. ADAMServe and x1541 come to mind. I know the FLEX people have a solution but I forgot what it was called. It wouldn't surprise me if the Atari & Apple II set have something similar, as well. Heck, even some of the weird old HP computers can do it. Is there some particular computer you'd like DriveWire to support? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From snhirsch at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 07:48:02 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > As I understand it from reading the documents, the drivewire server > currently only grabs 256 bytes when it is asked to get a sector. If the > disk image is supposed to be based on 1024 byte sectors, then the server > would need some kind of setting to select the sector size, or the client > side would need to tell the server what size sectors it is expecting. That's essentially what I meant by deblocking, although to be accurate it should be termed "blocking" when multiplying :-). > I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in > the clientside driver. -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 07:51:48 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:09:09AM +1000, Bob Devries wrote: >> >> This would make it usable with other computers, provided that >> client-side drivers could be written for those computers. > > A lot (most?) of the other 8-bit machines already have software to > treat a PC as a disk drive. ADAMServe and x1541 come to mind. I know > the FLEX people have a solution but I forgot what it was called. It > wouldn't surprise me if the Atari & Apple II set have something > similar, as well. Atari 8-bit machines have SIO2PC. There is less motivation to develop a new scheme for Apple II, since Appletalk client capability is built in to the IIGS and available for older models through a peripheral card. But, for machines like the //c it would be great to have DW support. That machine has no bus slots or expansion connector. Steve -- From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 16 18:50:57 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:50:57 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 07:51:48AM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: > > Atari 8-bit machines have SIO2PC. There is less motivation to develop a > new scheme for Apple II, since Appletalk client capability is built in to > the IIGS and available for older models through a peripheral card. I figured the Atari 8-bit machines would have something, since they all hooked up external floppies via a serial port, and I knew the IIGS had Appletalk. I didn't know there was a localtalk card for the other Apple IIs, though. That's pretty cool! > > But, for machines like the //c it would be great to have DW support. That > machine has no bus slots or expansion connector. Does it have an RS-232 port? Or at least some sort of semi-standard I/O port? I'm not familiar with the Apple IIs. Is the OS hackable enough to add a DW client to? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From snhirsch at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 22:35:44 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 07:51:48AM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >> Atari 8-bit machines have SIO2PC. There is less motivation to develop a >> new scheme for Apple II, since Appletalk client capability is built in to >> the IIGS and available for older models through a peripheral card. > > I figured the Atari 8-bit machines would have something, since they > all hooked up external floppies via a serial port, and I knew the IIGS > had Appletalk. I didn't know there was a localtalk card for the other > Apple IIs, though. That's pretty cool! Yes, it's really terrific. I was responsible for adding support for so-called "short name" AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) to the open source netatalk package. That let's you provide file services from any Linux box. I can net-boot my IIe and IIGS directly from my server. >> But, for machines like the //c it would be great to have DW support. That >> machine has no bus slots or expansion connector. > > Does it have an RS-232 port? Or at least some sort of semi-standard > I/O port? I'm not familiar with the Apple IIs. Is the OS hackable > enough to add a DW client to? The IIc has RS232 and game ports. I strongly suspect that bit-banging the game port will be faster than the built-in UART. I might take a look at the CoCo bit-banger code to see if it can be ported to 6502 assembler. Support for booting an Apple 2 from DW would require an add-on card with ROM, but writing a loadable file system driver for ProDOS (8-bit) or GS/OS (16-bit) shouldn't be too difficult. Steve -- From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sat Jul 17 02:51:46 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 00:51:46 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:35:44PM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: > Yes, it's really terrific. I was responsible for adding support for > so-called "short name" AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) to the open source > netatalk package. That let's you provide file services from any Linux > box. I can net-boot my IIe and IIGS directly from my server. That's pretty cool. I've never done classic Mac network setup, though I have used Macs being served by netatalk. If I can ever get an ethernet card for my Performa, I'll be jumping in with both feet. > The IIc has RS232 and game ports. I strongly suspect that bit-banging the > game port will be faster than the built-in UART. I might take a look at > the CoCo bit-banger code to see if it can be ported to 6502 assembler. My, that's a pretty flexible joystick port! > > Support for booting an Apple 2 from DW would require an add-on card with > ROM, but writing a loadable file system driver for ProDOS (8-bit) or GS/OS > (16-bit) shouldn't be too difficult. Well, the IIC does have a built-in floppy drive, so that should be good enough, as long as you have a boot disk and the drive works! The only other issue with DW supporting the Apple II series is the virtual disk images. Is there any special weirdness in AppleII virtual disks, or are they just sector dumps? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From snhirsch at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 08:33:30 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 08:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:35:44PM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> Yes, it's really terrific. I was responsible for adding support for >> so-called "short name" AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) to the open source >> netatalk package. That let's you provide file services from any Linux >> box. I can net-boot my IIe and IIGS directly from my server. > > That's pretty cool. I've never done classic Mac network setup, though > I have used Macs being served by netatalk. If I can ever get an > ethernet card for my Performa, I'll be jumping in with both feet. Are you sure your Performa doesn't have ethernet built-in? On some of the earlier models they had a "mini AUI" connector on the rear panel. A number of companies made adapters to convert this to RJ45. You also have the alternative of a localtalk<-->ethernet bridge, which is what you'd need anyway for a IIGS or IIe w/ workstation card (there was an Apple 2 ethernet card, but it's rarer than hen's teeth). Macs (and the IIGS) used a Zilog SCC serial chip and spoke localtalk from the printer and/or modem ports. BTW, the "short name" support I added was specifically for Apple 2 ProDOS and GS/OS. Netatalk supported MacOS from the start - that's why it was written. >> The IIc has RS232 and game ports. I strongly suspect that bit-banging the >> game port will be faster than the built-in UART. I might take a look at >> the CoCo bit-banger code to see if it can be ported to 6502 assembler. > > My, that's a pretty flexible joystick port! >> >> Support for booting an Apple 2 from DW would require an add-on card with >> ROM, but writing a loadable file system driver for ProDOS (8-bit) or GS/OS >> (16-bit) shouldn't be too difficult. > > Well, the IIC does have a built-in floppy drive, so that should be good > enough, as long as you have a boot disk and the drive works! > > The only other issue with DW supporting the Apple II series is the > virtual disk images. Is there any special weirdness in AppleII > virtual disks, or are they just sector dumps? There are many flavors of Apple disk images. Most are sector dumps. The low-level nibble dumps were for copy-protected games and were not common anyway. Steve -- From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sat Jul 17 18:54:10 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:54:10 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100717225410.GA18738@virgo.sdc.org> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 08:33:30AM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: > Are you sure your Performa doesn't have ethernet built-in? On some of the > earlier models they had a "mini AUI" connector on the rear panel. A > number of companies made adapters to convert this to RJ45. Unfortunately, yes, I'm sure. ;-) Actually, I have an AAUI transciever in my box o' ethernet parts. Some companies just can't *stand* open standards, can they? >You also have the alternative of a localtalk<-->ethernet bridge, I'd prefer real ethernet. Besides, the proper ethernet card is cheap (esp. the AAUI only Apple card). I'm just horribly broke. :-( >Macs (and the IIGS) used a Zilog SCC serial chip and spoke >localtalk from the printer and/or modem ports. Yep. Localtalk is pretty cool. Tandylink was the same thing for the Model 4 and the T1000, except twice as fast. > There are many flavors of Apple disk images. Most are sector dumps. The > low-level nibble dumps were for copy-protected games and were not common > anyway. That's good. A DW server wouldn't have to go through lots of hoops to read them, and presumably most Apple II stuff would work just being sent the sectors. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From nutz4coco at gmail.com Sun Jul 18 15:08:07 2010 From: nutz4coco at gmail.com (Jim Cox) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:08:07 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Trying to contact Roy Justice Message-ID: Hey Roy! If you are there then please contact me off-line. Jim Cox http://miba51.blogspot.com/ http://geekswhocare.blogspot.com/ http://8-bit-retro-computing.blogspot.com/ From farna at att.net Sun Jul 18 20:20:47 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:20:47 -0400 Subject: [Coco] FPGA Primer Message-ID: <4C439A5F.6000100@att.net> For those interested in such things see http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Beginners-Guide-to-Programmable-Logic-Devices/ Don't know if this $199 board is enough for a CoCo in FPGA or not... 256Kx16 SRAM, 1Mx16x4 SDRAM, 4Mx8 Flassh, SD card reader, "USB blaster" (what's that, just high speed USB port?), one PS/2, one RS-232, and one VGA port, looks like two GPIO headers. http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-1736-ND -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 10:49:40 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] FPGA Primer In-Reply-To: <4C439A5F.6000100@att.net> References: <4C439A5F.6000100@att.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, Frank Swygert wrote: > For those interested in such things see > http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Beginners-Guide-to-Programmable-Logic-Devices/ > > Don't know if this $199 board is enough for a CoCo in FPGA or not... 256Kx16 > SRAM, 1Mx16x4 SDRAM, 4Mx8 Flassh, SD card reader, "USB blaster" (what's that, > just high speed USB port?), one PS/2, one RS-232, and one VGA port, looks > like two GPIO headers. > > http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-1736-ND That board (also known as the "DE1") is one of the two official target platforms :-). FWIW, you can get it from DigiKey for about $50 less. Since Aaron, Gary and Mark helped me get mine going and talking with DW4, it's been smooth sailing. A 25Mhz. CoCo 3 is really something :-). Steve -- From mdelyea at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 20:30:52 2010 From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:30:52 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint Message-ID: Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port it to the coco. The original source is Pascal. http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ From dragonbytes at cox.net Tue Jul 20 20:59:54 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:59:54 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D54D885-7200-4289-BB24-4A2432075530@cox.net> Macpaint requires both the macpaint source and the quickdraw library code. Both written in partly in 68000. dont think it translates well to the 6809, but who knows. - Todd Wallace On Jul 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, mike delyea wrote: > Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port it > to the coco. The original source is Pascal. > > http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mdelyea at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 21:09:29 2010 From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:09:29 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: <7D54D885-7200-4289-BB24-4A2432075530@cox.net> References: <7D54D885-7200-4289-BB24-4A2432075530@cox.net> Message-ID: Both are available. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Todd Wallace wrote: > Macpaint requires both the macpaint source and the quickdraw library code. > Both written in partly in 68000. dont think it translates well to the 6809, > but who knows. > > - Todd Wallace > > On Jul 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, mike delyea wrote: > > > Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port > it > > to the coco. The original source is Pascal. > > > > http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From mechacoco at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 21:07:21 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:07:21 -0600 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/20/10, mike delyea wrote: > Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port it > to the coco. The original source is Pascal. > > http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ > --- The CoCo already has a MacPaint clone - CoCoMax. The MacPaint source is dependent on several other unreleased portions of the classic Mac toolbox including the Event Manager, Menu Manager, Window Manager, etc. I find it much more interesting that they have released the source to the original (monochrome) QuickDraw. Darren From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Wed Jul 21 01:39:20 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:39:20 -0600 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 07:07:21PM -0600, Darren A wrote: > > The CoCo already has a MacPaint clone - CoCoMax. No love for MVCanvas? Ahh, it's my favorite! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From badfrog at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:53:11 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:53:11 -0500 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: Don't forget ColorMax! On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 07:07:21PM -0600, Darren A wrote: >> >> The CoCo already has a MacPaint clone - CoCoMax. > > No love for MVCanvas? ?Ahh, it's my favorite! > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > ?-- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From museum.it.arlington at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 15:01:04 2010 From: museum.it.arlington at gmail.com (MITA - Gmail) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:01:04 -0500 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Vintage Computer Festival progress Message-ID: <4c4743f1.0c80640a.1e36.5b0e@mx.google.com> Things are shaping up nicely for the 1st annual Vintage Computer Festival Southwest, August 7-8. See the VCF website for the latest information: http://mit-a.com/VCF1.shtml We currently have 4 speakers signed up. Two are from Datapoint, one is from TI, and one is from the Museum of Information Technology at Arlington. If you would like to speak please contact us at Museum.IT.Arlington at gmail.com. If you would like to exhibit at the VCF please let us know what you plan to show and we will add it to the web site. We will only have a limited number of tables, so please sign up soon. Gil -- A. G. (Gil) Carrick, Director Museum of Information Technology at Arlington DT MITA icon 1012 Portofino Drive Arlington, TX 76012 817-264-MITA (6482) - gil.carrick (Skype) http://MIT-A.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1523 bytes Desc: not available URL: From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Wed Jul 21 19:00:49 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:00:49 -0600 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100721230049.GA18235@virgo.sdc.org> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:53:11AM -0500, Sean wrote: > Don't forget ColorMax! I suppose I should counter with Max-9 but I don't remember if I ever got it to work. ;-) Instead I'll give a hand to one of the CoCo's greatest and shout out for Color Computer Artist! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From dragonbytes at cox.net Wed Jul 21 19:17:23 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:17:23 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: <20100721230049.GA18235@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> <20100721230049.GA18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I used Color Computer Artist as a kid! My sisters spent hours using the coco3 to draw stuff with it (to my great frustration, since I wanted to continue with my BASIC programming). A cool program. Never tried the others. - Todd Wallace On Jul 21, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:53:11AM -0500, Sean wrote: >> Don't forget ColorMax! > > I suppose I should counter with Max-9 but I don't remember if I ever > got it to work. ;-) > > Instead I'll give a hand to one of the CoCo's greatest and shout out > for Color Computer Artist! > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Wed Jul 21 19:28:39 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:28:39 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code Message-ID: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Ouch! Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the 8th grade. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) SOUND 255,255 is just plain painful! Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. That's actually mostly OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the reports. I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that clearly shows in the code. Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". But at least those aren't entirely my fault! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From devries.bob at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 19:38:58 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:38:58 +1000 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <004b01cb292d$ec1b2460$0701a8c0@master> hehehe, Willard, wait 'til someone points out a bug in your carefully crafted programme 15 years after it was written, and then find that you subscribed to the idea "if it was hard to write, it should be hard to read" (regarding the comments in the source) ;) Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Willard Goosey To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:28 AM Subject: [Coco] scary old code Ouch! Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the 8th grade. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) SOUND 255,255 is just plain painful! Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. That's actually mostly OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the reports. I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that clearly shows in the code. Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". But at least those aren't entirely my fault! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From dragonbytes at cox.net Wed Jul 21 19:49:44 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:49:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I wrote part of a game when i was about 14 or 15. it was supposed to be star fighter game. Had 4 guns at the corners and fired at a center crosshair at enemies. Written in BASIC. Also wrote a very basic GUI client that looked like Mac OS. would load a few apps. But alas I lost it when I wrote an Undelete program for DECB. Before I perfected it, I messed up and corrupted the disk. Those were the days. - Todd Wallace On Jul 21, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > Ouch! > > Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the > 8th grade. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! > > People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT > be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) SOUND 255,255 is just > plain painful! > > Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it > wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. That's actually mostly > OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the > reports. I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that > clearly shows in the code. > > Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, > mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". But at least those > aren't entirely my fault! > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 00:37:10 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:37:10 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. The CoCo makes it so easy to start programming that you can get ahead of yourself, writing code that is beyond your own skill level by trial and error. I don't think that's a bad thing... doing something the wrong way helps you appreciate the right way once you figure it out. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to have the same experience. Sure, you might pick up a couple bad habits by learning on your own, but those are easily corrected. The insight you gain from learning on a machine like the CoCo is priceless. On a modern computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to learn programming. With the CoCo, it's instantly ready for you to experiment. The BASIC manuals were a big part of it too, they really encouraged you to try things and explained each step without becoming a boring computer book. I wonder if there is anything done that well for kids (or even adults) today. Anyway, don't feel bad or ashamed of old code that's poorly done, after all, simply knowing that it's bad indicates you've learned new things and grown as a programmer. If you look at code from years prior and cannot see problems with it, you've stopped learning. (or you are one heck of a programmer :) -Aaron On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Todd Wallace wrote: > I wrote part of a game when i was about 14 or 15. it was supposed to be star fighter game. ?Had 4 guns at the corners and fired at a center crosshair at enemies. Written in BASIC. ?Also wrote a very basic GUI client that looked like Mac OS. ?would load a few apps. ?But alas I lost it when I wrote an Undelete program for DECB. ?Before I perfected it, ?I messed up and corrupted the disk. ?Those were the days. > > - Todd Wallace > > On Jul 21, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > >> Ouch! >> >> Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the >> 8th grade. ?"Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! >> >> People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT >> be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) ?SOUND 255,255 is just >> plain painful! >> >> Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it >> wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. ?That's actually mostly >> OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the >> reports. ?I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that >> clearly shows in the code. >> >> Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, >> mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". ?But at least those >> aren't entirely my fault! >> >> Willard >> -- >> Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org >> Socorro, New Mexico, USA >> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. >> ?-- R.E. Howard >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 05:41:51 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:41:51 -0400 Subject: [Coco] yet another drivewire4 beta version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I put up another update tonight. This fixes a couple bugs, adds detailed logging of MIDI events (needed it to fix one of the bugs), and removes the boot disks from the package. I realized that the disks included in the previous beta package did not include the updated modules that provide faster virtual serial output. The beta is now set to boot directly from the latest nightly NitrOS9 disks so special disks are not needed. By default it will use the 6809 CoCo3 version, but there are disk sets preconfigured for coco 1/2, 6309 coco3, and Gary Becker's Coco3FPGA. If you're using DriveWire with MESS, still have to make you own disks or use the one I have on the beta web site. Maybe I can add a MESS disk to the nightly builds at some point. If you are using DW on a server that does not have internet access, or if you want to use your own boot disk, its easy to configure DW to use that instead. -Aaron On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > Available here: http://sites.google.com/site/drivewire4/beta > > This version improves MIDI performance quite a bit. ?You can play > simple files directly off a DW disk and back out the bitbanger as > MIDI. ?More complex songs (pretty much any cmf0 file) will still > require that the file is on a local disk or in memory to play well. > I've tweaked the synthesizer translation profiles to help songs > arranged for the Yamaha PSS480 and a couple Casios sound better when > played on GM devices, and you can switch profiles in real time now, no > need to restart the song to catch the initial instrument assignments. > ?A nice side effect of the performance changes are that latency in > telnet and internet BBSing is reduced as well. > > I've also switched the disk cache to use a dynamic array, so memory > use should be much improved and loading larger disk images is > possible. ?I've added memory usage information to the "dw s s" command > so you can get an idea of how much we're using. ?If you need more than > your platform provides by default, you can allocate additional ram to > the DW server on the command line as so: > > java -Xmx512m -jar DriveWire.jar > > This would grant 512MB to DriveWire. ?the default is 256MB on most > systems, although its only 128MB on my debian linux dev box. > > There are a few other little improvements here and there. ?As always, > just let me know if it blows up your computer or causes hair loss. > -Aaron > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 06:18:52 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:18:52 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <004b01cb292d$ec1b2460$0701a8c0@master> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <004b01cb292d$ec1b2460$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <20100722101852.GA6604@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 09:38:58AM +1000, Bob Devries wrote: > hehehe, > > Willard, wait 'til someone points out a bug in your carefully > crafted programme 15 years after it was written, and then find that > you subscribed to the idea "if it was hard to write, it should be > hard to read" (regarding the comments in the source) ;) Been there, done that. I've got some HC11 assembly (from about '94), no file more than a page of code, and it's freaking incomprehensible! Not because I believed in "if it was hard to write it should be hard to read", but because "This is totally obvious. It doesn't need comments." :-( A word to the wise: Assembly is *never* obvious. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 06:26:03 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:26:03 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100722102603.GB6604@virgo.sdc.org> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 07:49:44PM -0400, Todd Wallace wrote: > But alas I lost it when I wrote an Undelete program for DECB. I think we've all had to write an undelete program for DECB. I had to write mine after Spell-n-Fix II crashed and deleted an 11-granule file! And I didn't have the Disk BASIC manual with me, so there was *lots* of experimenting there. Anyone else have that problem with Spell-n-Fix II from Star-kits? If it encountered an 8-bit character, it would crash and delete its input file. I think it needed a CoCo 3 patch. I knew that, but it had been years since I'd used my CoCo, and I forgot. It was an unpleasant reminder. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 06:57:21 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:57:21 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100722105721.GD6604@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:37:10AM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via > the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. For BASIC to be really clear, it needs lots of comments. It can be hard (and uses lots of resources like memory and line numbers) to use lots of comments in BASIC. It doesn't help that lots (most?) of the sample code we had available back then also wasn't really great about being readable. From the Sample Programs in the BASIC manual to Barden's books to Rainbow Magazine to generic BASIC Programming books. Look in them, and you'll see lots of dense, uncommented code. After all, people had to type that stuff in themselves, they're not going to want to type in lots of extra comments. >On a modern computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to >learn programming. That's a real problem that's hitting IT and CS college programs. Freshmen are coming in with exactly zero programming experience. Most of todays's computers don't come with any programming tools, so kids just aren't learning to program. >If you look at code from years prior and cannot see problems with it, >you've stopped learning. (or you are one heck of a programmer :) Pheah! My code from six months ago makes me wince. "Oh good job there, Mr. high-and-mighty-I-check-pointers-against-null-before- I-try-to-use-them!" :-) Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Thu Jul 22 12:13:43 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:13:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> I actually have fond memories of the book that came with the Model I. Well written, and fun to follow. As a kid, I quickly learned BASIC. 'Ready' and 'OK' still seem an inviting prompt. After learning the "right" way to program, I found it hard to start coding. Sort of like that old canard about whether you start walking with your left or right foot, and you end up tripping over your feet. I have asked many times how someone would begin today. There are no BASIC interpreters these days, just the visual environments where the initial focus is on the structure and appearance of windows and dialog boxes. Code becomes scattered across so many modules that a program doesn't resemble a program. Regardless of the language, the concepts just don't seem apparent. The original authors of BASIC, Kemeny and Kurtz, released something called TrueBASIC, and I guess that's still available. It is still very much an interpreter, but the language has been improved and does not rely on line numbers. It was targeted for education, but I can't see it being used in anything other than an introductory role these days. On Jul 22, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via > the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. > The CoCo makes it so easy to start programming that you can get ahead > of yourself, writing code that is beyond your own skill level by trial > and error. I don't think that's a bad thing... doing something the > wrong way helps you appreciate the right way once you figure it out. > > I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to have the same > experience. Sure, you might pick up a couple bad habits by learning > on your own, but those are easily corrected. The insight you gain > from learning on a machine like the CoCo is priceless. On a modern > computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to learn > programming. With the CoCo, it's instantly ready for you to > experiment. The BASIC manuals were a big part of it too, they really > encouraged you to try things and explained each step without becoming > a boring computer book. I wonder if there is anything done that well > for kids (or even adults) today. > > Anyway, don't feel bad or ashamed of old code that's poorly done, > after all, simply knowing that it's bad indicates you've learned new > things and grown as a programmer. If you look at code from years > prior and cannot see problems with it, you've stopped learning. (or > you are one heck of a programmer :) > > -Aaron From asa.rand at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 12:39:37 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:39:37 -0700 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <4DCF50DBD90A4B939D63DC2E93C41679@asarand> I found the same things to be true when I came back to DCom. I thought I would never forget that code. I knew it needed more comments, but it was already split into pieces just to keep the comments there were (and they are significant, when it comes to variable name definitions). I still have trouble following my own code when I read it. I have learned alot since then. I just wish I could find the time to get back to it and finish it. From devries.bob at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 20:17:57 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:17:57 +1000 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org><15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <4DCF50DBD90A4B939D63DC2E93C41679@asarand> Message-ID: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> Wayne, I think an idea that IMHO has merit is to keep two versions of the code; one with and one without comments. just my $0.02 Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Campbell To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code I found the same things to be true when I came back to DCom. I thought I would never forget that code. I knew it needed more comments, but it was already split into pieces just to keep the comments there were (and they are significant, when it comes to variable name definitions). I still have trouble following my own code when I read it. I have learned alot since then. I just wish I could find the time to get back to it and finish it. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 21:37:37 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:37:37 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:13:43PM -0400, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > After learning the "right" way to program, I found it hard to start > coding. Sort of like that old canard about whether you start walking > with your left or right foot, and you end up tripping over your > feet. Yeah, that can be a problem. The whole "Top-Down Design" and the structured programming nuts want to make even simple things really complicated. > I have asked many times how someone would begin today. There are no > BASIC interpreters these days, just the visual environments where > the initial focus is on the structure and appearance of windows and > dialog boxes. Code becomes scattered across so many modules that a > program doesn't resemble a program. Regardless of the language, the > concepts just don't seem apparent. Well, none included with the popular operating systems, anyway. FreeBasic is supposed to be pretty nice. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From asa.rand at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 22:18:59 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:18:59 -0700 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org><15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com><4DCF50DBD90A4B939D63DC2E93C41679@asarand> <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> You are correct, Bob. However, as I was working on my CoCo3 at the time, trying to maintain 2 different files was difficult. I couldn't always rememebr which one I made changes to first. It's easier now though. I have other programs to help me track changes. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Devries" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code > Wayne, > > I think an idea that IMHO has merit is to keep two versions of the code; > one with and one without comments. > > just my $0.02 > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne Campbell > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 2:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code > > > I found the same things to be true when I came back to DCom. I thought I > would never forget that code. I knew it needed more comments, but it was > already split into pieces just to keep the comments there were (and they > are > significant, when it comes to variable name definitions). I still have > trouble following my own code when I read it. I have learned alot since > then. I just wish I could find the time to get back to it and finish it. > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From 6809er at srbsoftware.com Fri Jul 23 02:29:43 2010 From: 6809er at srbsoftware.com (Steve Bjork) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:29:43 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> While I spend most of my coding time these days writing in some object based language, I long for simpler times of 6809 or 68000 coding when you created your own SDK. Maybe we should create our own BASIC interpreter call it "Freedom" BASIC. As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way I tell you to code!" Now, that would be a breath of fresh air! Steve (6809er) Bjork On 7/22/2010 6:37 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:13:43PM -0400, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > Yeah, that can be a problem. The whole "Top-Down Design" and the > structured programming nuts want to make even simple things really > complicated. > Well, none included with the popular operating systems, anyway. > FreeBasic is supposed to be pretty nice. > > Willard From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 23 03:54:36 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:54:36 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> Message-ID: <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 07:18:59PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote: > You are correct, Bob. However, as I was working on my CoCo3 at the time, > trying to maintain 2 different files was difficult. Yeah, you need some good tools to make that work. diff and patch, maybe. Unfortunately, machines with diff and patch don't have languages so limited by source-file size that you'd need a commented version and an uncommented version. Or, do all your work with a commented version, and automatically generate an uncommented version to feed to your compiler/interpeter, which is another option that the CoCo interpeters wouldn't make easy. I kind of wish we had a version of BASIC-09 that was strictly a non-interactive compiler. That would make it a lot easier to layer on pre-processors (like include or m4), comment strippers, etc onto the language. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From beretta42 at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 06:59:12 2010 From: beretta42 at gmail.com (Brett Gordon) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 06:59:12 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I remember writing basic on the CoCo. I was too poor/isolated to "buy" software, so I had to write it all myself. I remember some basic games I wrote that were literally 20-30 pages look in print. No comments, lots of gotos, and lots of variables with *descriptive names* like "a1", "a2" and the such. I remember the beauty of "TRON" and "TRACE" and "EDIT". I remember the disappointment I felt when my new PC-XT's GW basic was just as slow as my CoCo2, and had less features. It's interesting to point out that many old forth's have 1/2 of the entire block memory (AKA disk sectors) set aside for commenting code. Many fancy-pants block editors would display each code block with it's coresponding comment block. -- Brett M. Gordon, beretta42 at gmail.com From skwirl42 at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 09:23:58 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:23:58 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Steve Bjork <6809er at srbsoftware.com> wrote: > As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way I > tell you to code!" It's called Perl. You can code any which way you'd like, even if you like line noise. ;) -- James Dessart From gene.heskett at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 10:16:48 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:16:48 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> Message-ID: <201007231016.49267.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Friday, July 23, 2010 10:16:01 am James Dessart did opine: > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Steve Bjork <6809er at srbsoftware.com> wrote: > > As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way > > I tell you to code!" > > It's called Perl. You can code any which way you'd like, even if you > like line noise. ;) Gah, you have been reading Larry Walls sigs again. ;-) -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Marxist Law of Distribution of Wealth: Shortages will be divided equally among the peasants. From spam001 at franklinlabs.com Fri Jul 23 11:36:41 2010 From: spam001 at franklinlabs.com (pilot352) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:36:41 -0000 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: New CoCo site In-Reply-To: <288484.97010.qm@web43140.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian, Fantastic new site and thanks for the plug on my software!!! Much obliged!!! From fwp at deepthought.com Fri Jul 23 12:29:21 2010 From: fwp at deepthought.com (Frank Pittel) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:29:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> Message-ID: <20100723162921.GC14231@warlock.deepthought.com> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:23:58AM -0300, James Dessart wrote: > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Steve Bjork <6809er at srbsoftware.com> wrote: > > > As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way I > > tell you to code!" > > It's called Perl. You can code any which way you'd like, even if you > like line noise. ;) There's also python and for compiled languages C and C++ The other Frank From bear at bears.org Fri Jul 23 15:39:39 2010 From: bear at bears.org (Gary Coulbourne) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:39:39 -0400 Subject: [Coco] VCC Website? Message-ID: I just went to install VCC on my laptop, and noticed that the vcc6809.x10hosting.com site appears to be gone. Has there been any news of it being moved elsewhere? Thanks! Peace, Gary From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 23 16:46:49 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:46:49 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100723204649.GA12726@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 06:59:12AM -0400, Brett Gordon wrote: >I remember some basic games I wrote that were literally 20-30 pages >look in print. No comments, lots of gotos, and lots of variables >with *descriptive names* like "a1", "a2" and the such. Scary. And pretty typical (except maybe the size (ouch, you're hardcore)). That's the way the manuals taught us to program. > It's interesting to point out that many old forth's have 1/2 of the entire > block memory (AKA disk sectors) set aside for commenting code. Many > fancy-pants block editors would display each code block with it's > coresponding comment block. Interesting, I didn't know that. Heh, FORTH needs all the commenting it can get. It's almost as bad as APL. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From boisy at tee-boy.com Fri Jul 23 17:16:40 2010 From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:16:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] A bit of (personal) CoCo History Message-ID: I thought I would share this with the list today. My father recently moved closer to home, and in helping move his stuff, I obtained some residual things, including a box of old receipts. While going through the box in a casual manner, I found a Radio Shack receipt dated 5-15-87 for DeskMate 3. This was the program that put me on the path to using OS-9 since DeskMate 3 ran under OS-9 Level Two, as I discovered when I learned how to exit into the operating system. It's the little things like this that really make your day. -- Boisy G. Pitre http://www.tee-boy.com/ From asa.rand at gmail.com Sat Jul 24 12:28:05 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 09:28:05 -0700 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master><4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <3D50F77EFD004ECC8ABE798E33E158D2@asarand> My wish list for Basic09 is: ability to save the internal tables to files unpack command (uses above tables) to unpack I-Code in a pinch (when you accidentally delete the only copy of the source code you have) ability to have a workspace larger than 40K (to hold all of those comments) When I began writing unpack, and then decode, I found that much commenting can be done just using variable names. The problem with it is that the longer word-names fills the workspace faster, even though the internal I-Code is using tokens, and the variable names are kept in a table. The single most important thing that could be done to Basic09, in this regard, is a larger workspace. Basic09 creates 3 tables, variable reference list, line reference list, and comments list. The comments list contains all of the comment lines, blank lines and line reference lines whose line number is not referenced in a GOTO, GOSUB, THEN , or RESTORE statement. The 4th "table" is the i-code produced when Basic09 compiled the source as it was loaded. When packing, the line reference offset addresses, and possibly the variable reference addresses are modified. The variable references point to data memory instead of the variable list, and line number references are replaced with the relative offset within the procedure instead of the line reference list. All comments and blank lines and unused line reference lines are just lost. I don't know how difficult it would be to make Basic09 capable of doing what I wish it could do. The program is already as large as a single program can be and still do the work it does. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willard Goosey" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 07:18:59PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote: >> You are correct, Bob. However, as I was working on my CoCo3 at the time, >> trying to maintain 2 different files was difficult. > > Yeah, you need some good tools to make that work. diff and patch, > maybe. Unfortunately, machines with diff and patch don't have > languages so limited by source-file size that you'd need a commented > version and an uncommented version. > > Or, do all your work with a commented version, and automatically > generate an uncommented version to feed to your compiler/interpeter, > which is another option that the CoCo interpeters wouldn't make easy. > > I kind of wish we had a version of BASIC-09 that was strictly a > non-interactive compiler. That would make it a lot easier to layer on > pre-processors (like include or m4), comment strippers, etc onto the > language. > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sat Jul 24 17:21:24 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 15:21:24 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <3D50F77EFD004ECC8ABE798E33E158D2@asarand> References: <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> <3D50F77EFD004ECC8ABE798E33E158D2@asarand> Message-ID: <20100724212124.GA25295@virgo.sdc.org> On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:28:05AM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote: > My wish list for Basic09 is: [..] >I don't know how difficult it would be to make Basic09 > capable of doing what I wish it could do. The program is already as large > as a single program can be and still do the work it does. Ahh, but if you stripped out the text editor, command mode, and debugger for a cli-only compiler, you'd free up some code space and then you'd have room to add the code to make it dump its internal tables. I have to admit, however, that the NitrOS-9 source for BASIC-09 might be pretty scary stuff. It's probably from a disassembler. We were talking about code with no comments or useful variable names? BINGO! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From johnguin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 25 12:37:57 2010 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:37:57 -0700 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" Message-ID: Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th anniversary of the Amiga. Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? Just wondering, John From mechacoco at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 13:49:34 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:49:34 -0600 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/25/10, John Guin wrote: > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > anniversary of the Amiga. > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > ----- The official introduction date was July 31, 1980. We are 6 days away from the 30th birthday. Darren From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Jul 25 14:12:18 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:12:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. james On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > anniversary of the Amiga. > > > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > > > > Just wondering, > > John > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From flexser at fiu.edu Sun Jul 25 14:58:18 2010 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:58:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: So, big 20th birthday next month then, if memory serves you correct. Art On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:12 PM, wrote: > If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. > > That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. > > james > > On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: > > > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > > anniversary of the Amiga. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > > > > > > > > Just wondering, > > > > John > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From flexser at fiu.edu Sun Jul 25 15:00:21 2010 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:00:21 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Er, make that big 30th... Art On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Arthur Flexser wrote: > So, big 20th birthday next month then, if memory serves you correct. > > Art > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:12 PM, wrote: > >> If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. >> >> That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. >> >> james >> >> On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: >> >> > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the >> 25th >> > anniversary of the Amiga. >> > >> > >> > >> > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? >> > >> > >> > >> > Just wondering, >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > From alsplace at pobox.com Sun Jul 25 15:16:05 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:16:05 -0500 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <2E988F7F-A73F-4950-9F71-B85861ABDC90@pobox.com> Rainbow magazine listed a specific date in a calendar they put in an anniversary issue. I keep thinking it was August 20 (my birthday). - Allen Huffman ? PO Box 22031 ? Clive IA 50325 * 515-999-0227 Sent from my iPad On Jul 25, 2010, at 1:12 PM, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. > > That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. > > james > > On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: > >> Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th >> anniversary of the Amiga. >> >> >> >> Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? >> >> >> >> Just wondering, >> >> John >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:04:35 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:04:35 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Message-ID: Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. From jejones3141 at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:25:31 2010 From: jejones3141 at gmail.com (James Jones) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:25:31 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the modified device descriptors. > Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. James Jones From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:29:15 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:29:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. ?I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. ?I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. ? Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a In OS9, you can use the "xmode" command to set these parameters. "xmode /p" will show you the current settings. Sometimes you need to use a lookup value rather than the literal value, for instance with baud rates here is the table: B110 EQU %00000000 B300 EQU %00000001 B600 EQU %00000010 B1200 EQU %00000011 B2400 EQU %00000100 B4800 EQU %00000101 B9600 EQU %00000110 B19200 EQU %00000111 B38400 EQU %00001000 B57600 EQU %00001001 B115200 EQU %00001010 So to set the baud rate to 1200bps, use "xmode /p bau=3". The definitions for these types of things can be found in the scfdefs file here: http://nitros9.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/nitros9/nitros9/defs/ > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > ?I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. ?I find > the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. ?However, I got into the > world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm > trying to remain true to its original character. ?Some of what I once had > learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can > and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > Consider using NitrOS9. It has many improvements and is free: http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:29:45 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:29:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007252329.45913.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:28:42 pm Chad H did opine: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm > trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. > I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified > RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom > 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of > the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 > double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough > to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a > old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC > programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but > is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the > printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications > allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but > not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a > page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC > initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the > OS-9 apps and print. When running os9, there is a utility called xmode that will allow you to control those sorts of things. > > > I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I > find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got > into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I > was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some > of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly > trying to relearn all I can and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a > later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. > 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) When I met th'POPE back in '58, I scrubbed him with a MILD SOAP or DETERGENT for 15 minutes. He seemed to enjoy it ... From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Jul 25 23:40:58 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:40:58 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4C4D03CA.16108.D98609@jdaggett.gate.net> That would sound about right. Tandy like many other retail outlets generally want to have Christmas stock in the warehouses by July. With that they can start the presses rolling with ads and distribution to the stores well ahead of the Christmas season. james On 25 Jul 2010 at 11:49, Darren A wrote: > On 7/25/10, John Guin wrote: > > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > > anniversary of the Amiga. > > > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > > > > ----- > > The official introduction date was July 31, 1980. We are 6 days away > from the 30th birthday. > > Darren > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:36:44 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:36:44 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: Message-ID: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:45:16 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:45:16 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BTW - Welcome and hope you have fun with OS9! There is a lot of documentation available online, and I've tried to gather it in an easy to use form. Check out the OS-9 section here: https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/docs Especially "Mastering OS-9 on the Tandy Color Computer 3" (which Frank from FARNA Systems graciously gave me permission to post there :) and "The complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9 Level II", especially if you're interested in Basic09. -Aaron On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. ?I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. ?I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. ? Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > ?I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. ?I find > the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. ?However, I got into the > world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm > trying to remain true to its original character. ?Some of what I once had > learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can > and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:46:00 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:46:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> References: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, I'm hearing X-Mode or T-Mode for the printer configuration and D-Mode for the floppy configuration? Is this right? -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of James Jones Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:26 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the modified device descriptors. > Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. James Jones -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:51:04 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:04 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I'm hearing X-Mode or T-Mode for the printer configuration and D-Mode > for the floppy configuration? ?Is this right? > tmode is for configuring your terminal, xmode for SCF devices like the printer port, dmode for RBF devices like disk drives. tmode and xmode overlap in that terminals are usually (always?) SCF devices, but tmode doesn't take an argument for what device to use, it just configures the current terminal. Bob makes a good point in that since you're on level 1, things may be different. I believe xmode works the same in both, but I don't have a real L1 disk to try it with. Sounds like using dmode won't cut it in L1, you'll have to get a special device module. Another reason to seriously consider using NitrOS9 I think. -Aaron > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of James Jones > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:26 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: >> Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take >> advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have a >> FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS > EPROM >> that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I >> configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either > as >> /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device > descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to > a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one > with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file > containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In > either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the > modified device descriptors. >> ? ?Also, a >> person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel >> converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather >> well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it > (i.e. >> setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in >> OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a >> couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the >> application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get > these >> to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a >> RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go >> into the OS-9 apps and print. >> > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its > name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. > > ? ? James Jones > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:09:56 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:09:56 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:22:38 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:22:38 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <004f01cb2c7a$32d4a4e0$0701a8c0@master> hehe, sorry, Chad.... IIRC == If I Remember Correctly..... :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:29:33 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:29:33 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: Message-ID: <005d01cb2c7b$2f275ee0$0701a8c0@master> Hi All, for the life of me, I cannot remember where I last saw the disk driver for Level 1, nor can I remember its name. Can someone help out here? I have scanned through RTSI, and also the files from the Princeton days (now on maltedmedia), but nothing jumps out at me. :( Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia P.S. I seem to remember that it was from an article in The Rainbow..... ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:34:37 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:34:37 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:45:38 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:45:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: That has been my thoughts in the last little while. I have a good NitrOS9 (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. I had copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. Yea, it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. If that works, I will just have to get the printer configured then. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 01:01:54 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:01:54 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Model Number Confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> I keep collecting Coco stuff, and maintain a very detailed list. There is a Coco 1 on eBay right now (230503718010) that is advertised as model 26-3017A. This is one of the units I don't have in my collection. But when I looked carefully at the enlargement photo provided in the eBay ad, the original RS name plate on the bottom says it is a 26-3002A model, which I do have. There is a white sticker under that original plate that reads 26-3017A. The eBay ad also mentions this sticker. This sticker looks official, but has no other identifying marks other than that number. When the Shack did an upgrade, did they change the model number to indicate to what model the Coco was upgraded? Is there actually a 26-3017A model with that nameplate, or is the 26-3017A just an upgrade and never a produced model? Thanks! -- Steve -- From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 04:25:20 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:25:20 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same error message. I've looked at the Cobbler and OS9Gen utilities thinking maybe they could help. The OS9Gen is said to be able to rebuild from scratch a bootstrap file with only the modules you specify. The OS-9 manual also says that a certain list of modules are required. Question is, how do I pick and choose which of those modules I want to use in OS9Gen? It seems to be looking for the original bootstrap file or actual module files (which I don't see residing on the disks matching the bootup modules) Where are these bootup modules other than in the original bootstrap file?? I'm starting to miss MSDOS... :/ - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:46 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? That has been my thoughts in the last little while. I have a good NitrOS9 (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. I had copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. Yea, it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. If that works, I will just have to get the printer configured then. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 04:38:46 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:38:46 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <007f01cb2c9d$f8aa5070$0701a8c0@master> Chad, check what's in the "STARTUP" file on the NitrOS9 disk. If it's the same as the Level 2 disks, it will load some utils into memory. You could maybe do without those. As well, the default NitrOS9 bootfile probably has a lot of device driver and descriptors that the DeskMate disk doesn't have. hope that helps Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same error message. I've looked at the Cobbler and OS9Gen utilities thinking maybe they could help. The OS9Gen is said to be able to rebuild from scratch a bootstrap file with only the modules you specify. The OS-9 manual also says that a certain list of modules are required. Question is, how do I pick and choose which of those modules I want to use in OS9Gen? It seems to be looking for the original bootstrap file or actual module files (which I don't see residing on the disks matching the bootup modules) Where are these bootup modules other than in the original bootstrap file?? I'm starting to miss MSDOS... :/ - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:46 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? That has been my thoughts in the last little while. I have a good NitrOS9 (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. I had copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. Yea, it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. If that works, I will just have to get the printer configured then. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 05:01:06 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:01:06 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: Why not just use the Deskmate 3 disk that's built from the latest CVS every night? It's all ready to go. http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ -Aaron On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Chad H wrote: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had > time to try with others yet. ?DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits > almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". ?The OS9 on the DeskMate disk > seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. > I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same > error message. ?I've looked at the Cobbler and OS9Gen utilities thinking > maybe they could help. ?The OS9Gen is said to be able to rebuild from > scratch a bootstrap file with only the modules you specify. ?The OS-9 manual > also says that a certain list of modules are required. ?Question is, how do > I ?pick and choose which of those modules I want to use in OS9Gen? ?It seems > to be looking for the original bootstrap file or actual module files (which > I don't see residing on the disks matching the bootup modules) ?Where are > these bootup modules other than in the original bootstrap file?? > > I'm starting to miss MSDOS... :/ > > - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:46 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > That has been my thoughts in the last little while. ?I have a good NitrOS9 > (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. ?I had > copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. ?Yea, > it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. > So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to > see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. ?If that works, I > will just have to get the printer configured then. ?Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Chad, > since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why > would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you > have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more > easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be > able to read both single and double-sided disks. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Chad H > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ?Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. ?I don't really know > ?much about IIRC. ?Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from > ?Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? > > ?- Chad > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > ?Behalf Of Bob Devries > ?Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM > ?To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > ?Hi all, > > ?may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? > > ?AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to > ?replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available > on > ?RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. > > ?Regards, Bob Devries > ?Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ? ?----- Original Message ----- > ? ?From: Chad H > ? ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ? ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM > ? ?Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ? ?Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. ?I > ? ?usually only load it because an application or game requires it. ?I'm > ?trying > ? ?to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > ? ?Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > take > ? ?advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have > a > ? ?FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS > ?EPROM > ? ?that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I > ? ?configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either > ?as > ? ?/d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. ? Also, a > ? ?person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > ? ?converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > ? ?well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it > ?(i.e. > ? ?setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > ? ?OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a > ? ?couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside > the > ? ?application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get > ?these > ? ?to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > ? ?RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then > go > ? ?into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > ? ? I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. ?I > find > ? ?the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. ?However, I got into > ?the > ? ?world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and > ?I'm > ? ?trying to remain true to its original character. ?Some of what I once > had > ? ?learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I > ?can > ? ?and then some. > > > > ? ?P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a > ?later > ? ?revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 > but > ?I > ? ?think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > ? ?Thanks for any help. > > > > > ? ?-- > ? ?Coco mailing list > ? ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ? ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 06:14:56 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:14:56 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <201007260614.56653.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:09:36 am Bob Devries did opine: > Hi all, > > may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? > > AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to > replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one > (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia 100% correct. The original Level 1 version 1.00 also had a different set of defines in the defsfiles. I recall getting my disk driver from a commercial place at the time, possibly ComputerWare, but it would take me the rest of the day to find the originals now. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Ed Sullivan will be around as long as someone else has talent. -- Fred Allen From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Jul 26 06:15:41 2010 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:15:41 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't > had time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but > exits almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 > on the DeskMate disk seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is > loading too many modules. I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and > then loading DeskMate, same error message. It seems to me that your understanding is on track here. DeskMate used most of the available memory. A custom bood disk will be needed, but It has been a LONG TIME since I messed with my CoCo 2 with OS-9. Bruce W. From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Jul 26 06:18:06 2010 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:18:06 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master><006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <721A329A898E4E23B6E1AA7CF8D7D840@speedy> > Why not just use the Deskmate 3 disk that's built from > the latest CVS every night? It's all ready to go. > > http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ > > -Aaron That needs a CoCo 3, which Level 1 rev 1.0.0 will not run on. Bruce W. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 06:26:26 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:26:26 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007260626.26501.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:15:45 am Chad H did opine: > Ok, I'm hearing X-Mode or T-Mode for the printer configuration and > D-Mode for the floppy configuration? Is this right? > dmode is for storage (rbf) descriptor adjustments, and tmode (already open paths)/xmode (to be opened paths) are for serial (scf) devices. But Bob Devries is also correct in that your version is the original, did not have a dmode command because ccdisk was hard coded for SS disks. You would be better off to take a visit to nitros9.sourceforge.net and download the level 1 images available there, as all this is fixed in nitros9. The full link to the front page is: > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On Behalf Of James Jones > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:26 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > > take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. > > I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a > > modified RS-DOS > > EPROM > > > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do > > I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > > either > > as > > > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > > There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device > descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to > a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one > with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file > containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In > either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the > modified device descriptors. > > > Also, a > > > > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a > > serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP > > DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC > > programs to work properly with it > > (i.e. > > > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters > > in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've > > seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate > > inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way > > I could get > > these > > > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run > > a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and > > then go into the OS-9 apps and print. > > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its > name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. > > James Jones > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Science is what happens when preconception meets verification. From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Jul 26 06:07:28 2010 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:07:28 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: Message-ID: <6B1818ADDEEE43F6AE23534272B794F9@speedy> > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could > find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says > level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Level 1 rev. 1.0.0 was pretty well hard coded for the "standard" Radio Shack drives. I remember modifying Level 1 rev 2.0.0 for 40 track double sided drives because it was the first CoCo OS-9 that supported that action. NitrOS9 is a good option. Since you are using Level 1 rev 1.0.0 you must be using a CoCo 1 or 2 since it does not boot on the CoCo 3, which was part of the reason for rev 2.0.0. Quite simply your frustration level for what you want to do will be much lower with NitrOS9. OTOH; if you look around at the various archives, RTSI, and MaltedMedia you might find a image of the Level 1 rev 2.0.0 disks. Bruce W. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 06:31:15 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:31:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <201007260631.15817.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:27:20 am Chad H did opine: > Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really > know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow > from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? > > - Chad The disk images you can download from can be written to a real floppy and the coco booted directly from that floppy. Or, you can use drivewire, and will not need floppy disks on the coco, it can boot from those images on the pc's hard drive. > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Hi all, > > may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? > > AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to > replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available > on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM > Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm > trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. > I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified > RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do > I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, > a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a > serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP > DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs > to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters > in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen > a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside > the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could > get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run > a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and > then go into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I > find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got > into the > world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 > and I'm > trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once > had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn > all I can > and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a > later > revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 > but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) TV is chewing gum for the eyes. -- Frank Lloyd Wright From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 08:22:57 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:22:57 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Color Burner In-Reply-To: <4C4D03CA.16108.D98609@jdaggett.gate.net> References: , , , <4C4D03CA.16108.D98609@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Hi! I wonder if someone here have a photo of Color Burner. I want to post it in my blog to remember my eproms burners. I have the manuals in B&W but I lost my Color Burner. Thank you very much Jorge Machin _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From robert.gault at att.net Mon Jul 26 08:48:16 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:48:16 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Chad H wrote: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had > time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits > almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk > seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. > I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same > error message. Chad, Level1 NitrOS-9 has an mfree result of 137 pages while Deskmate 1 gives 162. That should explain the "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY" message. It seems your main request is to use Deskmate 1 with the disk hardware on your system. You have said the disks are assigned Top 0/1 and Bottom 2/3 in your ROM but that may not be enough information. That just says what DIR0-DIR3 will access not what the values in the ROM drive table actually are. This is important as your easiest solution is to modify the CCDISK drive table on the Deskmate disk to match your hardware. On the stock Deskmate disk, the drive table values are at CCDISK bytes $209 01,02,04,$40. These are the drive masks used to access the four floppies if the modules are present in the OS9Boot file. Deskmate has only /d0 and /d1 in the bootfile. You probably need to change the table to match that in your ROM. My guess would be your ROM table is 01,$41,02,$42 based on your description. The more usual table would be 01,02,$41,$42 making the top drive 0/2 and the bottom 1/3. Antway it looks like you need to change the CCDISK table to 01,$41,02,$42. From the thread I've been reading, that could be more trouble for you than the effort is worth. Would you like me to e-mail you a modified disk? Robert From mechacoco at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 11:14:26 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:14:26 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Model Number Confusion In-Reply-To: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> References: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> Message-ID: I'm not sure what the 'A' suffix refers to, but 26-3017 was the catalog number for a RAM upgrade. The Radio Shack technicians would apply the extra sticker after performing an upgrade, probably for warranty purposes. Darren --- On 7/25/10, Steve Ostrom wrote: > I keep collecting Coco stuff, and maintain a very detailed list. There is a > Coco 1 on eBay right now (230503718010) that is advertised as model > 26-3017A. This is one of the units I don't have in my collection. But when > I looked carefully at the enlargement photo provided in the eBay ad, the > original RS name plate on the bottom says it is a 26-3002A model, which I do > have. There is a white sticker under that original plate that reads > 26-3017A. The eBay ad also mentions this sticker. This sticker looks > official, but has no other identifying marks other than that number. When > the Shack did an upgrade, did they change the model number to indicate to > what model the Coco was upgraded? Is there actually a 26-3017A model with > that nameplate, or is the 26-3017A just an upgrade and never a produced > model? > > Thanks! > > -- Steve -- > From farna at att.net Mon Jul 26 11:14:29 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:14:29 -0400 Subject: [Coco] re OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Message-ID: <4C4DA655.9010902@att.net> Definitely set the drives up as 360K double sided drives. A double sided drive will still read a single sided, no problems there, even the old 35 track (160K) single sided disks. Instead of messing around with OS-9 Level 1 I'd suggest you download a copy of Nitros-9. It's a continually upgraded version of OS-9 that a few members of the CoCo/Os-9 community developed years ago and have kept improving over the years. It will have all the utilities you need built in and works just like OS-9 -- you can use the OS-9 manuals/books and get 80% of the system. The other 20% are improvements that go beyond the original, like the DMODE command/utility. Everything that runs under OS-9 Level 1 and 2 will run under Nitros-9 (Technically "NitrOS-9" - OS-9 on nitrous if you will). 95% of what you read in any OS-9 book should work exactly the same. I'd say 100%, but there are a few things that work differently, though I don't know enough to say exactly what they are -- no "fresh" experience with Nitros or OS-9 (not in YEARS -- I just keep up with the list a bit out of nostalgia). "Learning OS-9 on the CoCo 3" is probably the best book ever. I didn't write it, I edited and published the last version with permission from the original author. I don't know if a disk image is up yet but there is a copy on the CoCo-List archives and several other sources, as Aaron mentioned his site for one (Aaron, you can get a copy of the disk image if it's up on the list site and distribute that also). Your problem may be in getting a disk. you have to download on a PC then copy to a floppy -- if you have a 5.25" drive on your PC. Some have problems when using a 1.2M 5.25" drive, but your 360K drives (set as 360K DD drives) SHOULD read the 1.2M disk, but DO NOT write to the 1.2M disk. Instead, the first thing after booting from one should be to make a backup to a 360K disk then use that, reuse the 1.2M floppy or put it up as a backup only with a note NOT to write to it from the CoCo. If you don't have a 5.25" disk on a PC maybe someone here will be kind enough to make you a 360K Nitros disk and send it for a small fee... On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com Mon Jul 26 15:10:02 2010 From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:10:02 -0700 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007260614.56653.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <201007260614.56653.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I got my OS-9 Level 1 disk drivers from SDisk1, is that what you remember? I think that I have DSK files of all my SDisk original disks and doc's. SHF > Hi All, > for the life of me, I cannot remember where I last saw the disk driver for > Level 1, nor can I remember its name. > Can someone help out here? I have scanned through RTSI, and also the files > from the Princeton days (now on maltedmedia), but nothing jumps out at me. > :( > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett" To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:09:36 am Bob Devries did opine: > >> Hi all, >> >> may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? >> >> AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to >> replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one >> (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. >> >> Regards, Bob Devries >> Dalby, QLD, Australia > > 100% correct. The original Level 1 version 1.00 also had a different set > of > defines in the defsfiles. I recall getting my disk driver from a > commercial > place at the time, possibly ComputerWare, but it would take me the rest of > the day to find the originals now. > > -- > Cheers, Gene From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 18:59:09 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:59:09 -0500 Subject: [Coco] re OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4DA655.9010902@att.net> References: <4C4DA655.9010902@att.net> Message-ID: Oh I'm good on disks. I use a old win98 box with 5.25 360k floppy to backup/restore .DSK images and I got plenty of unopened 5.25 disk boxes. I've had NitrOS9 for some time but the bootstrap seems too large for some applications to run. Trying to figure out how to take some of the modules out, not add in extra with OS9Gen or Cobbler. - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Frank Swygert Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:14 AM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: [Coco] re OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Definitely set the drives up as 360K double sided drives. A double sided drive will still read a single sided, no problems there, even the old 35 track (160K) single sided disks. Instead of messing around with OS-9 Level 1 I'd suggest you download a copy of Nitros-9. It's a continually upgraded version of OS-9 that a few members of the CoCo/Os-9 community developed years ago and have kept improving over the years. It will have all the utilities you need built in and works just like OS-9 -- you can use the OS-9 manuals/books and get 80% of the system. The other 20% are improvements that go beyond the original, like the DMODE command/utility. Everything that runs under OS-9 Level 1 and 2 will run under Nitros-9 (Technically "NitrOS-9" - OS-9 on nitrous if you will). 95% of what you read in any OS-9 book should work exactly the same. I'd say 100%, but there are a few things that work differently, though I don't know enough to say exactly what they are -- no "fresh" experience with Nitros or OS-9 (not in YEARS -- I just keep up with the list a bit out of nostalgia). "Learning OS-9 on the CoCo 3" is probably the best book ever. I didn't write it, I edited and published the last version with permission from the original author. I don't know if a disk image is up yet but there is a copy on the CoCo-List archives and several other sources, as Aaron mentioned his site for one (Aaron, you can get a copy of the disk image if it's up on the list site and distribute that also). Your problem may be in getting a disk. you have to download on a PC then copy to a floppy -- if you have a 5.25" drive on your PC. Some have problems when using a 1.2M 5.25" drive, but your 360K drives (set as 360K DD drives) SHOULD read the 1.2M disk, but DO NOT write to the 1.2M disk. Instead, the first thing after booting from one should be to make a backup to a 360K disk then use that, reuse the 1.2M floppy or put it up as a backup only with a note NOT to write to it from the CoCo. If you don't have a 5.25" disk on a PC maybe someone here will be kind enough to make you a 360K Nitros disk and send it for a small fee... On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 19:05:10 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:05:10 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Well I'm willing to take a crack at it. Yea I know my numbering scheme may not be typical but hey...it suits me. Anywhooo....how do I modify the CCDISK table? From what you say about it being so much trouble, I would guess it would be some sort of direct hex edit, that's the most troublesome hacks I've ever had to deal with but I could just edit the .DSK image on PC and look for the pattern that needs changing if that's the case. - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gault Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 7:48 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad H wrote: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had > time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits > almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk > seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. > I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same > error message. Chad, Level1 NitrOS-9 has an mfree result of 137 pages while Deskmate 1 gives 162. That should explain the "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY" message. It seems your main request is to use Deskmate 1 with the disk hardware on your system. You have said the disks are assigned Top 0/1 and Bottom 2/3 in your ROM but that may not be enough information. That just says what DIR0-DIR3 will access not what the values in the ROM drive table actually are. This is important as your easiest solution is to modify the CCDISK drive table on the Deskmate disk to match your hardware. On the stock Deskmate disk, the drive table values are at CCDISK bytes $209 01,02,04,$40. These are the drive masks used to access the four floppies if the modules are present in the OS9Boot file. Deskmate has only /d0 and /d1 in the bootfile. You probably need to change the table to match that in your ROM. My guess would be your ROM table is 01,$41,02,$42 based on your description. The more usual table would be 01,02,$41,$42 making the top drive 0/2 and the bottom 1/3. Antway it looks like you need to change the CCDISK table to 01,$41,02,$42. From the thread I've been reading, that could be more trouble for you than the effort is worth. Would you like me to e-mail you a modified disk? Robert -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 19:10:07 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:10:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <6B1818ADDEEE43F6AE23534272B794F9@speedy> References: <6B1818ADDEEE43F6AE23534272B794F9@speedy> Message-ID: I think I came across a rather large disk archive last night that contains a rev 2.0.0 .DSK image. I plan on checking that out shortly. Yea I'm working with a 64k CoCo 2. Only things modded on it are the addition of a cooling fan and processor was changed for a Hitachi 68B09. - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bruce W. Calkins Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:07 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could > find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says > level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Level 1 rev. 1.0.0 was pretty well hard coded for the "standard" Radio Shack drives. I remember modifying Level 1 rev 2.0.0 for 40 track double sided drives because it was the first CoCo OS-9 that supported that action. NitrOS9 is a good option. Since you are using Level 1 rev 1.0.0 you must be using a CoCo 1 or 2 since it does not boot on the CoCo 3, which was part of the reason for rev 2.0.0. Quite simply your frustration level for what you want to do will be much lower with NitrOS9. OTOH; if you look around at the various archives, RTSI, and MaltedMedia you might find a image of the Level 1 rev 2.0.0 disks. Bruce W. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 20:19:42 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:19:42 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Model Number Confusion In-Reply-To: References: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> Message-ID: <1C57BEF0459144A68A70E8320F4ABD55@OstromPC> Thanks, Darren. That makes sense. Both you and Torsten made the same observation, so I'm sure that is the explanation. There is really no Coco with model # 26-3017 or 3017A. Those are part numbers for the RAM. -- Steve -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren A" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Model Number Confusion > I'm not sure what the 'A' suffix refers to, but 26-3017 was the > catalog number for a RAM upgrade. The Radio Shack technicians would > apply the extra sticker after performing an upgrade, probably for > warranty purposes. > > Darren > > --- > > On 7/25/10, Steve Ostrom wrote: >> I keep collecting Coco stuff, and maintain a very detailed list. There >> is a >> Coco 1 on eBay right now (230503718010) that is advertised as model >> 26-3017A. This is one of the units I don't have in my collection. But >> when >> I looked carefully at the enlargement photo provided in the eBay ad, the >> original RS name plate on the bottom says it is a 26-3002A model, which I >> do >> have. There is a white sticker under that original plate that reads >> 26-3017A. The eBay ad also mentions this sticker. This sticker looks >> official, but has no other identifying marks other than that number. >> When >> the Shack did an upgrade, did they change the model number to indicate to >> what model the Coco was upgraded? Is there actually a 26-3017A model >> with >> that nameplate, or is the 26-3017A just an upgrade and never a produced >> model? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- Steve -- >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 22:41:54 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:41:54 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 22:53:01 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:53:01 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 22:53:53 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:53:53 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Chad, Your bootfile created with OS9Gen appears to have included the drivers SCBBT and SCBBP, but no descriptors for those (T1 and P). Also, I believe that OS9 L1 must have SHELL in the boot file. You probably don't need SCBBT and T1; you should have D1 and DD (not sure about DD). Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:23:25 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:23:25 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Chad, I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Regards, Bob Devries ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:49:12 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:49:12 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007262349.13111.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:33:19 pm Chad H did opine: > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally > booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like > there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with > joysticks? - Chad Both sysgo and shell need to be in the assigned cmds directory of the boot disk, they do not need to be in the bootfile itself, sysgo itself is a one time executable and is not needed ever again until the next reboot. Shell also can be loaded as needed, at some expense of load speed. Most do not add it to the bootfile. Rel, Krn, boot are also not part of the os9 bootfile, but reside in track 34 of the written disk, and it is this track which is loaded in its entirety when you type 'dos'ENTER.' These 3 modules are also level specific in that level 1 and level 2 versions do not work together. As for the joystick, I could be mistaken but I believe that comes from an .sb module, probably called something like joydrv.sb, and which IIRC becomess a subroutine loaded by VTIO, but there are many of those for various sorts of those hardware accessories. So read the docs, or the src's, to see which one you actually need for your 'joystick'. The only one of those I'm familiar with is the one for a serial mouse, driven by, in my case, and extra set of chips for a second rs-232 port in my own Deluxe RS-232 pack, and of no use to you. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) "World conquerors sometimes become fools, but fools never become world conquerors." -- "The Outer Limits: The Invisibles" From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:49:12 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:49:12 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on creating some custom bootstrap builds. However, I'm unable to locate this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:23 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Regards, Bob Devries ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:56:40 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Chad H wrote: > The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that > contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on creating > some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to locate this disk on > the NitrOS9 website :( > http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ "NitrOS-9/6809 Level 1 Disk 2" is clearly labeled. Disk 1 and 2 are combined into a single disk for the 80 track and DriveWire disk images. > - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:23 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level > 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. > > Regards, Bob Devries > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Chad H > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ?Update... ?I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally > ?booted. ?DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. ?However, it acted like > there > ?was no joystick attached. ?Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? > ?- Chad > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > ?Behalf Of Chad H > ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > ?Ok, I've backed up a little bit. ?My current thinking tells me the easiest > ?way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives > is > ?going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I > don't > ?need. ?I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules > ?and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the > ?modules. ?So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes > no > ?further. > > ?Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > ?REL KRN KRNP2 > ?INIT BOOT IOMAN > ?RBF RB1773 D0 > ?D1 D2 DD > ?SCF VTIO COVDG > ?TERM SCBBP P > ?SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > ?PIPER PIPE CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > ?Latest OS9Gen I used included... > ?RB1773 > ?D0 > ?VTIO > ?TERM > ?IOMAN > ?RBF > ?SCF > ?SYSGO > ?CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 > ?SCBBT > ?SCBBP > ?COVDG > > ?This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > ?Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > ?Thanks. > > ?- Chad > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:53:00 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:53:00 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:02:44 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:02:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: > The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that > contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on > creating some custom bootstrap builds. However, I'm unable to locate > this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( > > - Chad > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. I have some images I made back in February on my web site if they will work for you. should show you a directory listing. You would want: nos96809l1_40d_1.dsk nos96809l1_40d_2.dsk Both are 40 track double sided images, and the first one, if written to a floppy with the right writer SW, should boot. If you have an 80 track DS drive, the next image down is the whole enchilada, but I do not know if it will be bootable in that format which is equal to a 720k DD diskette. [...] -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) She blinded me with science! From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:17:36 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:17:36 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: > >> The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that >> contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on >> creating some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to locate >> this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( >> >> - Chad >> > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. ?I have > some images I made back in February on my web site if they will work for > you. > The nightly builds were down for a while, but Boisy got them working very nicely a few months back, Robert Gault managed to get all the Sierra targets building perfectly for DW, and I babysit the process (as in, I read the log every few days when I remember :) We also made the "latest disks" page with each disk image listed and categorized by package and disk type. Hopefully it's easier than ever to get the latest version of any specific disk image as needed, and you can boot right off the /latest page images with DW or CocoNet. It is working great at the moment, and with any luck should be reliable in the future. > > > should show you a directory listing. ?You would want: > > nos96809l1_40d_1.dsk > nos96809l1_40d_2.dsk > > Both are 40 track double sided images, and the first one, if written to a > floppy with the right writer SW, should boot. > > If you have an 80 track DS drive, the next image down is the whole > enchilada, but I do not know if it will be bootable in that format which is > equal to a 720k DD diskette. > > [...] > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > ?soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > She blinded me with science! > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:26:18 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:26:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007270026.18733.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:23:44 am Aaron Wolfe did opine: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: > >> The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' > >> that contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts > >> on creating some custom bootstrap builds. However, I'm unable to > >> locate this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( > >> > >> - Chad > > > > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. I > > have some images I made back in February on my web site if they will > > work for you. > > The nightly builds were down for a while, but Boisy got them working > very nicely a few months back, Robert Gault managed to get all the > Sierra targets building perfectly for DW, and I babysit the process > (as in, I read the log every few days when I remember :) We also made > the "latest disks" page with each disk image listed and categorized by > package and disk type. Hopefully it's easier than ever to get the > latest version of any specific disk image as needed, and you can boot > right off the /latest page images with DW or CocoNet. It is working > great at the moment, and with any luck should be reliable in the > future. > Thanks Aaron. Those I expect are much fresher than mine, which have probably reached their 'use by' date, in addition to not working with DW. ;-) -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The bigger they are, the harder they hit. From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:31:59 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:31:59 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007270026.18733.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <201007270026.18733.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:23:44 am Aaron Wolfe did opine: > >> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Gene Heskett > wrote: >> > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: >> >> The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' >> >> that contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts >> >> on creating some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to >> >> locate this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( >> >> >> >> - Chad >> > >> > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. ?I >> > have some images I made back in February on my web site if they will >> > work for you. >> >> The nightly builds were down for a while, but Boisy got them working >> very nicely a few months back, Robert Gault managed to get all the >> Sierra targets building perfectly for DW, and I babysit the process >> (as in, I read the log every few days when I remember :) ?We also made >> the "latest disks" page with each disk image listed and categorized by >> package and disk type. ?Hopefully it's easier than ever to get the >> latest version of any specific disk image as needed, and you can boot >> right off the /latest page images with DW or CocoNet. ?It is working >> great at the moment, and with any luck should be reliable in the >> future. >> > Thanks Aaron. ?Those I expect are much fresher than mine, which have > probably reached their 'use by' date, in addition to not working with DW. > ;-) > Boisy found and corrected a handful of issues in recent months. Some effected L1, I can't remember what exactly but I think he backported some L2 stuff that was not previously available in L1, wish I could remember what :) > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > ?soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > The bigger they are, the harder they hit. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 01:34:22 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:34:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: If you're familiar with unix and tools like make, it's actually much easier to build a boot disk by checking out the NitrOS9 CVS and using the "Toolshed" coco development tools to assemble and create your own NitrOS9 disks. Changing the modules on a boot disk is as simple as tweaking a makefile and "make dsk". When testing different things on different systems, I have to make several different OS9 disks quite often. If I had to use os9gen each time it would be really, really tedious. A modern PC can build all of NitrOS9 in a few seconds. The Toolshed can also be used on Windows. It works pretty much just like it does in linux if you use the cygwin environment. I think you can also run the tools natively as windows programs but I haven't done that myself. Toolshed is here if you're interested: http://sourceforge.net/projects/toolshed/ -Aaron On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. ?My current thinking tells me the easiest > way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is > going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't > need. ?I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules > and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the > modules. ?So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no > further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL ? ? ? ? ? ? KRN ? ? ? ? ? ? KRNP2 > INIT ? ? ? ? ? ?BOOT ? ? ? ? ? ?IOMAN > RBF ? ? ? ? ? ? RB1773 ?D0 > D1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?D2 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?DD > SCF ? ? ? ? ? ? VTIO ? ? ? ? ? ?COVDG > TERM ? ? ? ? ? ?SCBBP ? ? ? ? ? P > SCBBT ? ? ? ? ? T1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?PIPEMAN > PIPER ? ? ? ? ? PIPE ? ? ? ? ? ?CLOCK > CLOCK2 ?SYSGO ? ? ? ? ? SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 03:00:28 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 02:00:28 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: Been there...done that, although I couldn't use the 80 track version since I?m using actual physical 40-track drives/disks. However, I did get the "disk 2" for the coco level 1 and all it has was a basic boot setup. There were no module files or anything there. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Wolfe Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:57 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Chad H wrote: > The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that > contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on creating > some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to locate this disk on > the NitrOS9 website :( > http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ "NitrOS-9/6809 Level 1 Disk 2" is clearly labeled. Disk 1 and 2 are combined into a single disk for the 80 track and DriveWire disk images. > - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:23 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level > 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. > > Regards, Bob Devries > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Chad H > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ?Update... ?I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally > ?booted. ?DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. ?However, it acted like > there > ?was no joystick attached. ?Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? > ?- Chad > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > ?Behalf Of Chad H > ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > ?Ok, I've backed up a little bit. ?My current thinking tells me the easiest > ?way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives > is > ?going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I > don't > ?need. ?I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules > ?and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the > ?modules. ?So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes > no > ?further. > > ?Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > ?REL KRN KRNP2 > ?INIT BOOT IOMAN > ?RBF RB1773 D0 > ?D1 D2 DD > ?SCF VTIO COVDG > ?TERM SCBBP P > ?SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > ?PIPER PIPE CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > ?Latest OS9Gen I used included... > ?RB1773 > ?D0 > ?VTIO > ?TERM > ?IOMAN > ?RBF > ?SCF > ?SYSGO > ?CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 > ?SCBBT > ?SCBBP > ?COVDG > > ?This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > ?Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > ?Thanks. > > ?- Chad > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 03:08:07 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 02:08:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 03:23:35 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:23:35 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 09:48:00 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:48:00 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007270948.01272.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:14:17 am Chad H did opine: > Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue > everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to > strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen > to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and > copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, > albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL > had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I > checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, > shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a > command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. > > Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer > driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. > Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would > like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the > printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. > > - Chad e Yes, that is one of the beauty's of the *os9 way. The descriptor can be set to output both a linefeed and a carriage return at the end of the line if the printer requires it. ISTR you can also set the page length such that a FormFeed is output on line xx, which will cause the printer to advance to TOF (top of form) on the next page of paper. I can recall doing printouts of stuff I was writing, and using that to keep the 'pages' from getting out of time with the tractor feed perforations on an Xerox 1650ro printer I still have but cannot get ribbon cartridges for any more. Its strike on the daisy wheel just shatters the ribbon of the 15 year old ribbons I have. Guard that old HP-540 well, most newer printers do not know what to do with plain old ascii. When I needed a printer for my coco3 a couple of years ago, all I could find that was black & white and cheap, was Brothers little $120 laser, so in order to print from the coco3, I send the listing to /p in the usual way, but at 9600 baud, which is fed to an FTDI 232 to USB convertor, then up the cables to this machine, where it is captured by a script I wrote, then through cups for rasterising, and that data then sent back to the Brother laser sitting on top of the coco3's desk, on the same usb extension cable & hub. It works fine except I have to use the tuneport facility to actually get 9600 baud as the printer drivers default at 'xmode /p bau=6' is about 15 kilobaud and the FTDI serial to USB device gets confused. It is 20x faster too, as that printer is a 22 ppm printer where the xerox, at 40cps, is about 1 page a minute. However, my 'end of document' detector in the script is 3 consecutive attempts to read data timing out and coming back empty, before the script hands the captured file over to cups to process and print, so the printer doesn't start its warmup cycle till about 4 seconds after the prompt in that shell comes back. It works, so that lag is a shrug. > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On Behalf Of Gene Heskett > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM > To: coco at maltedmedia.com > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > > Chad, > > > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. > > Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 > boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level > one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass > Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > > > Regards, Bob Devries > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chad H > > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > > > > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > > with joysticks? - Chad > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > > > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > > > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > > > > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > > > REL KRN KRNP2 > > INIT BOOT IOMAN > > RBF RB1773 D0 > > D1 D2 DD > > SCF VTIO COVDG > > TERM SCBBP P > > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > > RB1773 > > D0 > > VTIO > > TERM > > IOMAN > > RBF > > SCF > > SYSGO > > CLOCK > > CLOCK2 > > SCBBT > > SCBBP > > COVDG > > > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > > > Thanks. > > > > - Chad > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Some people claim that the UNIX learning curve is steep, but at least you only have to climb it once. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 10:02:22 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:02:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> References: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:48:53 am Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the > DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device > (/P), like this: > > DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P > > If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you > can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to > set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before > the DISPLAY one. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to > learn English ;) Chuckle, yes I can imagine Bob. Its bad enough when two different dialects of English are talking. However I would add the caution that the printer driver, unless it has been fine tuned, needs a tuneport session in order to get above say 600 baud, with enough baud rate accuracy. I don't know if its because I have a 6309 in my coco3 or what, but at 9600 baud, the default bau=6 actually gets me about 15 kilobaud, and tuneport says the default timing is '13' but to get 9600, I have to use a value of 29 or 30. This checked by the timebase of my oscilloscope, something that not every one has. In my case, I could disable my script on this machine, then watch the leds on the adapter and tuneport till a valid speed is obtained as evidenced by the data leds on the adapter. If the speed is off by more than a few percent, the leds go dark and no data is sent. Sort of the hard way, but it could be made to work. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If you do not think about the future, you cannot have one. -- John Galsworthy From rod.barnhart at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 17:42:43 2010 From: rod.barnhart at gmail.com (Rod Barnhart) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:42:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] 6809 on Hack-A-Day Message-ID: Thought this might be of interest to the folks on this list: http://hackaday.com/2010/07/27/6809-computing/ -- Rod Barnhart From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:19:36 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:19:36 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Gene, If my memory serves, TunePort was a Level 2 programme, and was not available in Level 1. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Heskett To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:48:53 am Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the > DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device > (/P), like this: > > DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P > > If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you > can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to > set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before > the DISPLAY one. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to > learn English ;) Chuckle, yes I can imagine Bob. Its bad enough when two different dialects of English are talking. However I would add the caution that the printer driver, unless it has been fine tuned, needs a tuneport session in order to get above say 600 baud, with enough baud rate accuracy. I don't know if its because I have a 6309 in my coco3 or what, but at 9600 baud, the default bau=6 actually gets me about 15 kilobaud, and tuneport says the default timing is '13' but to get 9600, I have to use a value of 29 or 30. This checked by the timebase of my oscilloscope, something that not every one has. In my case, I could disable my script on this machine, then watch the leds on the adapter and tuneport till a valid speed is obtained as evidenced by the data leds on the adapter. If the speed is off by more than a few percent, the leds go dark and no data is sent. Sort of the hard way, but it could be made to work. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If you do not think about the future, you cannot have one. -- John Galsworthy -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:38:29 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:38:29 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007271838.30250.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 06:22:52 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Gene, > > If my memory serves, TunePort was a Level 2 programme, and was not > available in Level 1. That might be, but ISTR I used it 25 years ago to make a serial to parallel adapter I'd picked up from some no-name I can remember place, and which has since gone on to that big graveyard after a lightning strike nearby, work as its preset speeds were off. After I got a scope at home, it turned out to like about 11.1 killobaud when its switch was set to 9600. But, I was then using os9 level 1 version 2, or whatever the little white book and disk release was called that upgraded the original release. The original really was pretty stripped. But you tickled my curiosity, so I pulled a boxed copy of the level 1 stuff out, and it indeed is not listed in the red book of os9 commands. But I know I had it and used it before getting a coco-3. I can only conclude that it was in the little white book upgrade. And I'd have to dig much deeper to find the one copy of that I have. Somewhere in about 8 filing boxes. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) I am having FUN... I wonder if it's NET FUN or GROSS FUN? From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:44:21 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad Hendon) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:44:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] =?utf-8?q?OS-9_Floppy_/_Printer_configuration_=3F?= In-Reply-To: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:47:06 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad Hendon) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:47:06 -0500 Subject: [Coco] =?utf-8?q?OS-9_Floppy_/_Printer_configuration_=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually TUNEPORT was on my level 1 NitrOS9 image but I haven't tried using it yet Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 22:19:36 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Gene, If my memory serves, TunePort was a Level 2 programme, and was not available in Level 1. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Heskett To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:48:53 am Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the > DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device > (/P), like this: > > DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P > > If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you > can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to > set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before > the DISPLAY one. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to > learn English ;) Chuckle, yes I can imagine Bob. Its bad enough when two different dialects of English are talking. However I would add the caution that the printer driver, unless it has been fine tuned, needs a tuneport session in order to get above say 600 baud, with enough baud rate accuracy. I don't know if its because I have a 6309 in my coco3 or what, but at 9600 baud, the default bau=6 actually gets me about 15 kilobaud, and tuneport says the default timing is '13' but to get 9600, I have to use a value of 29 or 30. This checked by the timebase of my oscilloscope, something that not every one has. In my case, I could disable my script on this machine, then watch the leds on the adapter and tuneport till a valid speed is obtained as evidenced by the data leds on the adapter. If the speed is off by more than a few percent, the leds go dark and no data is sent. Sort of the hard way, but it could be made to work. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If you do not think about the future, you cannot have one. -- John Galsworthy -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:53:37 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:53:37 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: Chad, you said: > I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Yes, that's right. Hehe, the problem with trying to teach my wife English is that she has what you might call a pre-existing condition..... Filipino English and Australian English (AKA STRINE) are poles apart, and her grammar is further warped by her mother-language Tagalog, which uses completely different sentence construction. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Hendon To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 19:19:29 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:19:29 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? In-Reply-To: References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: Tagalog?? Wonder if that bears any resemblance to what we in the US sometimes refer to as "Pig Latin" hmmm. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:54 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Chad, you said: > I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Yes, that's right. Hehe, the problem with trying to teach my wife English is that she has what you might call a pre-existing condition..... Filipino English and Australian English (AKA STRINE) are poles apart, and her grammar is further warped by her mother-language Tagalog, which uses completely different sentence construction. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Hendon To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 19:31:34 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:31:34 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: <5A6FFCE2B76A43849944557B3329397C@master> Hi Chad, Tagalog is the official language of the Philippines. It was originally just one of the languages of the island of Luzon (where Manila is), but became the defacto language of the whole country. The Philippines government has tried to make a new language (Filipino) which is based on Tagalog and other languages, including Spanish, but it has failed to "take". Regards, Bob Devries ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Tagalog?? Wonder if that bears any resemblance to what we in the US sometimes refer to as "Pig Latin" hmmm. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:54 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Chad, you said: > I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Yes, that's right. Hehe, the problem with trying to teach my wife English is that she has what you might call a pre-existing condition..... Filipino English and Australian English (AKA STRINE) are poles apart, and her grammar is further warped by her mother-language Tagalog, which uses completely different sentence construction. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Hendon To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sturner58 at rocketmail.com Wed Jul 28 11:57:53 2010 From: sturner58 at rocketmail.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] New to this list Message-ID: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. Talk to you all soon. Steve From gene.heskett at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 13:48:54 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:48:54 -0400 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Wednesday, July 28, 2010 01:47:08 pm Steve Turner did opine: > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, > basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be > reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. > If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears > to be a zillion messages. > Not quite a zillion, Steve, and welcome to the list. > Talk to you all soon. > Steve -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) A bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back the when it begins to rain. -- Robert Frost From asa.rand at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 14:04:35 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:04:35 -0700 Subject: [Coco] New to this list References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <30FCC411507741EFA6CFF365A701F02A@asarand> Welcome to the list, Steve. You will find yourself remembering things you'd forgotten, learning things you never knew, and making many new friends here. The CoCo, the 6809, CB, ECB, DECB, OS-9 and NitrOS-9 pull many of us together, though we are sometimes a half-a-world away. Don't sweat the already asked questions. People here can help point you in the right direction. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Turner" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:57 AM Subject: [Coco] New to this list > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, > basically > got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though > the > list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something > that's > been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. > > Talk to you all soon. > Steve > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com Wed Jul 28 14:18:39 2010 From: Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com (Linux Rules) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:18:39 -0500 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C50747F.9080701@austin.rr.com> On 7/28/2010 12:48 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday, July 28, 2010 01:47:08 pm Steve Turner did opine: > > >> I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, >> basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be >> reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. >> If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears >> to be a zillion messages. >> >> > Not quite a zillion, Steve, and welcome to the list. > for i = 1 to 2 then Messages = zillion - i next i (gin) Welcome for sure; I'm buried under the traffic too! But what a great problem to have........ johnd > >> Talk to you all soon. >> Steve >> > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3034 - Release Date: 07/28/10 03:37:00 > > From Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com Wed Jul 28 14:24:43 2010 From: Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com (Linux Rules) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:24:43 -0500 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <4C50747F.9080701@austin.rr.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C50747F.9080701@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: <4C5075EB.7000800@austin.rr.com> On 7/28/2010 1:18 PM, Linux Rules wrote: > On 7/28/2010 12:48 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: >> On Wednesday, July 28, 2010 01:47:08 pm Steve Turner did opine: >> >>> I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, >>> basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be >>> reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. >>> If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears >>> to be a zillion messages. >>> >> Not quite a zillion, Steve, and welcome to the list. > > for i = 1 to 2 then > Messages = zillion - i > next i > > (gin) OOPS, make that (gRin)!!! Must have gotten tired eyes reading all the stuff from the amazing folks on the list......D'oh. > > Welcome for sure; I'm buried under the traffic too! > But what a great problem to have........ > johnd From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 14:48:38 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:48:38 -0400 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Welcome! I just got (back) into the CoCo last year and this list has been by far the greatest resource in coming up to speed. It's my experience that somebody here will know just about anything there is to know about the CoCo. Don't be afraid to ask questions, I think most of us have fun talking about coco stuff even if it has been discussed before.. I know I do :) Can I ask if you were a kid when you got your start with the CoCo? A few of us on IRC were recently discussing what may be a trend (wouldn't that be great), people who had a CoCo when they were young and are now returning after 15-20 years. There are a few of us in that boat. -Aaron On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Steve Turner wrote: > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, basically > got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though the > list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something that's > been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. > > Talk to you all soon. > Steve > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sturner58 at rocketmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:07:33 2010 From: sturner58 at rocketmail.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <682058.99176.qm@web120415.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Aaron and everyone for the welcome! Lot's of fun stuff to do, not nearly enough time. I'm on vacation right now, but hope to be more active when I get back home. I know I'll have some questions.:) Steve ________________________________ From: Aaron Wolfe To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 11:48:38 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] New to this list Welcome! I just got (back) into the CoCo last year and this list has been by far the greatest resource in coming up to speed. It's my experience that somebody here will know just about anything there is to know about the CoCo. Don't be afraid to ask questions, I think most of us have fun talking about coco stuff even if it has been discussed before.. I know I do :) Can I ask if you were a kid when you got your start with the CoCo? A few of us on IRC were recently discussing what may be a trend (wouldn't that be great), people who had a CoCo when they were young and are now returning after 15-20 years. There are a few of us in that boat. -Aaron On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Steve Turner wrote: > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, basically > got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though the > list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something that's > been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. > > Talk to you all soon. > Steve > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From steve at batsonphotography.com Wed Jul 28 19:10:19 2010 From: steve at batsonphotography.com (Steve Batson) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:10:19 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to be getting through........ Message-ID: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:20:17 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:20:17 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to be getting through........ In-Reply-To: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> References: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> Message-ID: This one made it. However, the last I have from you seems to be March 24th (unless I deleted something, usually don't) On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Steve Batson wrote: > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From devries.bob at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:21:21 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:21:21 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ References: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> Message-ID: Well, that one did. Remember, you will not see your own messages unless you have that option set in your preferences on maltedmedia. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 AM Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From steve at batsonphotography.com Wed Jul 28 19:23:50 2010 From: steve at batsonphotography.com (Steve Batson) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:23:50 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ Message-ID: <42a091f7$7b7a5c93$7d174df3$@com> I did just see that...I sent one the other day with a question from my iPhone and it didn't seem to get through. Maybe the list didn't like the server it was being sent from. The one that went through was sent from my normal webmail client. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bob Devries" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:21 PM To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Subject: Re: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ Well, that one did. Remember, you will not see your own messages unless you have that option set in your preferences on maltedmedia. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 AM Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:39:27 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:39:27 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seemto begetting through........ References: <42a091f7$7b7a5c93$7d174df3$@com> Message-ID: <78863A970BCF4E5BB2DC51849DBB3A60@master> The list will only accept messages from the email address which you used to subscribe. If your iPhone uses a different email address from your normal webmail, it will be ignored. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seemto begetting through........ I did just see that...I sent one the other day with a question from my iPhone and it didn't seem to get through. Maybe the list didn't like the server it was being sent from. The one that went through was sent from my normal webmail client. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bob Devries" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:21 PM To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Subject: Re: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ Well, that one did. Remember, you will not see your own messages unless you have that option set in your preferences on maltedmedia. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 AM Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:50:22 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:50:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork Message-ID: I was working on improving some scans of The Color Computer Magazine tonight and happened to notice an interview with Mr. Steve Bjork entitled "Playin' Around" (Feb 84) The picture on the first page is awesome.. Steve at age 25, sitting on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full on 80s tie. Man that takes me back. Makes you appreciate how much has changed in ~30 years. Those were good times. It's a good interview with details about all kinds of CoCo games. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks again Steve! I'll never forget the first computer program I ever saw in person: Popcorn, with Steve Bjork on the title screen :) -Aaron From alsplace at pobox.com Wed Jul 28 20:02:29 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:02:29 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > The picture on the first page is awesome.. Steve at age 25, sitting > on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full > on 80s tie. Man that takes me back. Makes you appreciate how much > has changed in ~30 years. Those were good times. I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were cranking out so much software. If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? -- Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 20:39:51 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> References: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman wrote: > On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. > > I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were cranking out so much software. > > If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) FWIW, you can read the article online here: https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) it's on page 86. I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or download. I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on boring jobs. google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you open them. Not ideal but maybe useful. > -- > Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: > https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 > > Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! > Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com > Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From alsplace at pobox.com Wed Jul 28 20:54:01 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:54:01 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" > rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) Wait, isn't that the article where he said it was a "piece of cake" to program? :-) (oops) -- Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 From badfrog at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 23:02:48 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:02:48 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: After loving it in the arcade, I remember being EXTREMELY disappointed with my Atari 2600 copy of Zaxxon. Then when I finally got the CoCo version a year or two later, it's like all was well again with the world. And the name "Steve Bjork" became one of my heroes. Still haven't had the chance to play Z'89 though. I remember the Rainbow ads for it and wanted it desperately. It was really hard getting my parents to buy a game! On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I was working on improving some scans of The Color Computer Magazine > tonight and happened to notice an interview with Mr. Steve Bjork > entitled "Playin' Around" (Feb 84) > > The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting > on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full > on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much > has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. > > It's a good interview with details about all kinds of CoCo games. ?I > enjoyed reading it. ?Thanks again Steve! ?I'll never forget the first > computer program I ever saw in person: Popcorn, with Steve Bjork on > the title screen ?:) > > -Aaron > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 28 23:34:36 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:34:36 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo keyboard can't keep up? Message-ID: Hey guys, another question.. Sometimes I get a little quick on the CoCo keyboard and I get extra characters displayed in addition to the ones I'm typing and they are nowhere near the keys I'm pressing. If I slow down all is good. Anyone know what this could be? It happens in DECB & OS9/NitrOS9 just the same. - Chad From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Thu Jul 29 07:33:19 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:33:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <349082704.368167.1280403199140.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> I **think** that is the article that asks Steve who is his favorite programmer?..Reply, I am...or something like that. I loved it, killer response! Aaron, it was a GREAT article and does take a person back in time. I need to go back and read it again! Just to mention a few of these people that molded our lives..... Terry Ritter, John Dumas, Don Weiss on the hardware side, Steve Bjork and many others on the software side. Not sure about others but I do think about what if...We never had this machine or these people that dedicated so much of their life to this processor/machine! Thank you all! Regards, Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Huffman To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:54:01 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork On Jul 28, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" > rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) Wait, isn't that the article where he said it was a "piece of cake" to program? :-) (oops) -- Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From robert.gault at att.net Thu Jul 29 08:36:45 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:36:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo keyboard can't keep up? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C5175DD.7040709@att.net> Chad H wrote: > Hey guys, another question.. > > Sometimes I get a little quick on the CoCo keyboard and I get extra > characters displayed in addition to the ones I'm typing and they are nowhere > near the keys I'm pressing. If I slow down all is good. Anyone know what > this could be? It happens in DECB& OS9/NitrOS9 just the same. > > > > - Chad Depends on what you were pressing and what you saw. There are characters generated using simultaneous key strokes for both DECB and OS-9. Depending on the ROM (DECB) and version OS-9, you might be getting some form of editing or repeat keys. So, you are going to need to experiment. Deliberately attempt to recreate the problem by entering simultaneous key strokes. When you locate a combination of keys that produce the unexpected characters, post the OS being used and the key sequence. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 09:31:30 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:31:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo keyboard can't keep up? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007290931.31126.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday, July 29, 2010 09:21:45 am Chad H did opine: > Hey guys, another question.. > > Sometimes I get a little quick on the CoCo keyboard and I get extra > characters displayed in addition to the ones I'm typing and they are > nowhere near the keys I'm pressing. If I slow down all is good. > Anyone know what this could be? It happens in DECB & OS9/NitrOS9 just > the same. > That is an un-avoidable artifact of the speed of the matrix scan when the coco scans the keyboard. Unlike modern keyboards, there is no key down or key up events sent, just the xy position in the matrix of crosspoints that is the keyboard itself. If a 2nd key is pressed before the first is released, you will get odd results. FWIW, modern keyboards have their own gotchas in that regard. I spend as much time correcting spelling mistakes as typing it in the first place because these old fingers don't always hit a key dead on and touch an adjacent key too. Or the repeat delay gets skipped and I get 'eeee' for a single press before the finger backs up. > > - Chad > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) One Bell System - it used to work before they installed the Dimension! From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 09:42:43 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:42:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <349082704.368167.1280403199140.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <349082704.368167.1280403199140.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <201007290942.43651.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday, July 29, 2010 09:32:10 am Mark Marlette did opine: > I **think** that is the article that asks Steve who is his favorite > programmer?..Reply, I am...or something like that. > > I loved it, killer response! Aaron, it was a GREAT article and does take > a person back in time. I need to go back and read it again! > > Just to mention a few of these people that molded our lives..... > > Terry Ritter, John Dumas, Don Weiss on the hardware side, Steve Bjork > and many others on the software side. > > Not sure about others but I do think about what if...We never had this > machine or these people that dedicated so much of their life to this > processor/machine! > > Thank you all! > > Regards, > > Mark > Cloud-9 We would, Mark, all of us, be much the poorer for never having known the coco. And its just as likely we would not be able to look back fondly at a circle of friends that has endured, in my case, for about 25 years, fully 1/3rd of my life. Some of us have likely never met face to face, but we are still friends none the less. There are some machines that have that enduring magic to some. For me that magic was first in the coco, then the amiga, but it has faded, while the coco endures. Yeah, I'm running linux these days, but my coco-3 is alive and reasonable well, sitting in the basement with only the monitor turned off right now. If I was root, I'd have perms to access /dev/ttyS1 and log into it from here with a session of minicom. I gotta fix that... -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) A billion here, a billion there -- pretty soon it adds up to real money. -- Sen. Everett Dirksen, on the U.S. defense budget From steve at batsonphotography.com Thu Jul 29 12:03:21 2010 From: steve at batsonphotography.com (Steve Batson) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:03:21 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? Message-ID: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, etc. I have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac and a few PCs. I'm thinking it would be fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to connect. Would be great If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what you think. Thanks Steve Batson steve at batsonphotography.com http://www.batsonphotography.com From fwp at deepthought.com Thu Jul 29 12:31:13 2010 From: fwp at deepthought.com (Frank Pittel) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:31:13 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> Message-ID: <20100729163113.GA16334@warlock.deepthought.com> I've been running nitros 9 in VCC under linux using wine. It works well once you figure out how the keyboard is mapped. the other Frank On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:03:21AM -0700, Steve Batson wrote: > I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, > etc. > > I > have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will > run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac > and a few PCs. > > I'm thinking it would be > fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. > Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to > connect. Would be great > If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what > you think. > > Thanks > > Steve Batson > steve at batsonphotography.com > http://www.batsonphotography.com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From dragonbytes at cox.net Thu Jul 29 12:46:08 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:46:08 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> Message-ID: <8DC05EE9-74F4-424F-9EC1-B6E7EF6C8B27@cox.net> In my opinion, the best CoCo3 emulator out there is VCC, but its for windows only. For an intel mac, the best way to go is MESS. All you'll need is a CoCo3 ROM file. Good luck and enjoy! - Todd Wallace On Jul 29, 2010, at 12:03 PM, Steve Batson wrote: > I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, > etc. > > I > have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will > run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac > and a few PCs. > > I'm thinking it would be > fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. > Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to > connect. Would be great > If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what > you think. > > Thanks > > Steve Batson > steve at batsonphotography.com > http://www.batsonphotography.com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From badfrog at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 13:13:57 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:13:57 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <20100729163113.GA16334@warlock.deepthought.com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> <20100729163113.GA16334@warlock.deepthought.com> Message-ID: Has anyone figured out where the VCC homepage went? On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Frank Pittel wrote: > I've been running nitros 9 in VCC under linux using wine. It works well > once you figure out how the keyboard is mapped. > > the other Frank > > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:03:21AM -0700, Steve Batson wrote: >> I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, >> etc. >> >> I >> ?have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will >> ?run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac >> and a few PCs. >> >> I'm thinking it would be >> ?fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. >> Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to >> connect. Would be great >> If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what >> you think. >> >> Thanks >> >> Steve Batson >> steve at batsonphotography.com >> http://www.batsonphotography.com >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From cappy2112 at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 14:35:45 2010 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:35:45 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? Message-ID: Message: 16 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:03:21 -0700 From: "Steve Batson" Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Message-ID: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@ com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>I'm thinking it would be fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. >>Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to >>connect. You don't have any choice with an emulator, you can't really connect an MPI or cartridges, you can only run the ROMS, disk or cassette images. I've run VCC on my windows 7 laptop just fine, but I have also run MESS, Jeff Vavasour's(sp??) emulator and David Keil's emulators under DOS. I should try those in Vmware with a DOS image to see if/how they run at all. I prefer to stay in Windows than to have to boot to dos, especially since all the COCO documentation is on my Windows partition in PDF. From dragonbytes at cox.net Thu Jul 29 14:55:13 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:55:13 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > You don't have any choice with an emulator, you can't really connect an MPI > or cartridges, you can only run the ROMS, disk or cassette images. Actually VCC can emulate a MPI just fine :) - Todd Wallace On Jul 29, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:03:21 -0700 > From: "Steve Batson" > Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Message-ID: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@ > com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> I'm thinking it would be fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do > it on an emulator. >>> Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to >>> connect. > > You don't have any choice with an emulator, you can't really connect an MPI > or cartridges, you can only run the ROMS, disk or cassette images. > > I've run VCC on my windows 7 laptop just fine, but I have also run MESS, > Jeff Vavasour's(sp??) emulator and David Keil's emulators under DOS. > > I should try those in Vmware with a DOS image to see if/how they run at all. > I prefer to stay in Windows than to have to boot to dos, especially since > all the COCO documentation is on my Windows partition in PDF. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From petrander at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 15:59:43 2010 From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:59:43 +0200 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: I agree that the environment on modern computers is hardly as inviting to starting to program as it was in the eighties. Pointing and clicking makes lifes easier, but does not leave the user with the impression that one can actually WRITE down a sequence of instructions for the computer to execute whenever desired. Still there is Scratch from MIT that is pretty cool. Anyone try that? http://scratch.mit.edu/ I already have my kids started programming with that. It has its limits, but it conveys all the important fundamental programming concepts like loops, variables, objects, etc. What's more: You get really quickly instantaneous results, which gives a highly motivating immediate visual feedback. Once they are old enough I could try to introduce them something like BlitzMax, which is a cross-platform compiler for a Basic dialect called BlitzBasic which is pretty straightforward, specialized on graphics effects and also yields immediate results. Cheers, Fedor On 22 July 2010 18:13, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > I actually have fond memories of the book that came with the Model I. Well > written, and fun to follow. As a kid, I quickly learned BASIC. 'Ready' and > 'OK' still seem an inviting prompt. > > After learning the "right" way to program, I found it hard to start coding. > Sort of like that old canard about whether you start walking with your left > or right foot, and you end up tripping over your feet. > > I have asked many times how someone would begin today. There are no BASIC > interpreters these days, just the visual environments where the initial > focus is on the structure and appearance of windows and dialog boxes. Code > becomes scattered across so many modules that a program doesn't resemble a > program. Regardless of the language, the concepts just don't seem apparent. > > The original authors of BASIC, Kemeny and Kurtz, released something called > TrueBASIC, and I guess that's still available. It is still very much an > interpreter, but the language has been improved and does not rely on line > numbers. It was targeted for education, but I can't see it being used in > anything other than an introductory role these days. > > > On Jul 22, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via > > the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. > > The CoCo makes it so easy to start programming that you can get ahead > > of yourself, writing code that is beyond your own skill level by trial > > and error. I don't think that's a bad thing... doing something the > > wrong way helps you appreciate the right way once you figure it out. > > > > I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to have the same > > experience. Sure, you might pick up a couple bad habits by learning > > on your own, but those are easily corrected. The insight you gain > > from learning on a machine like the CoCo is priceless. On a modern > > computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to learn > > programming. With the CoCo, it's instantly ready for you to > > experiment. The BASIC manuals were a big part of it too, they really > > encouraged you to try things and explained each step without becoming > > a boring computer book. I wonder if there is anything done that well > > for kids (or even adults) today. > > > > Anyway, don't feel bad or ashamed of old code that's poorly done, > > after all, simply knowing that it's bad indicates you've learned new > > things and grown as a programmer. If you look at code from years > > prior and cannot see problems with it, you've stopped learning. (or > > you are one heck of a programmer :) > > > > -Aaron > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 29 16:12:54 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:12:54 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:02:48PM -0500, Sean wrote: > Still haven't had the chance to play Z'89 though. I remember the > Rainbow ads for it and wanted it desperately. It was really hard > getting my parents to buy a game! > Z'89 kicks @$$! I'm not the best Zaxxon player ever, it took me a decade or so to beat CoCo Zaxxon, and I can't even make it through the first fortress in Z'89. Maybe one of the friendly people on this list has an extra copy they'll sell you. It's how I got mine. (Thanks again!) Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From badfrog at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 16:30:38 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:30:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: No floppy drive anymore, that's why I haven't bought it. Hopefully someday he'll release a version for the emulators, or better yet for Drivewire or Drive Pak. I could get through at least the 2nd robot in the arcade back in the day. Good times! On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:02:48PM -0500, Sean wrote: >> Still haven't had the chance to play Z'89 though. ?I remember the >> Rainbow ads for it and wanted it desperately. ?It was really hard >> getting my parents to buy a game! >> > Z'89 kicks @$$! ?I'm not the best Zaxxon player ever, it took me a > decade or so to beat CoCo Zaxxon, and I can't even make it through the > first fortress in Z'89. > > Maybe one of the friendly people on this list has an extra copy > they'll sell you. ? It's how I got mine. ?(Thanks again!) > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > ?-- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 17:59:53 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:59:53 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Steve Batson wrote: > I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, > etc. > > I > ?have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will > ?run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac > and a few PCs. > > I'm thinking it would be > ?fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. > Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to > connect. Would be great > If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what > you think. > NitrOS9 works fine in MESS and VCC, as others have mentioned. As for "printer and other basics"... well sort of. This is one area that I think both emulators could do better on. MESS will send bitbanger output to a file, so printing is sort of possible. That is the only communication you can do with the outside world, and it's one way. I'm not sure what VCC's capabilities in that area are, but they were similarly limited last I checked.. no two way communication between emulator and outside world. So, depending on what you meant by "other basics", you might be happy in an emulator or you might be frustrated :) If you're comfortable with patching and building things from source, John Linville wrote a patch for MESS that gives you two way communications via a FIFO tied to a TCP socket. > Thanks > > Steve Batson > steve at batsonphotography.com > http://www.batsonphotography.com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 29 19:30:51 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:30:51 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:30:38PM -0500, Sean wrote: > No floppy drive anymore, that's why I haven't bought it. Hopefully > someday he'll release a version for the emulators, or better yet for > Drivewire or Drive Pak. > Yeah, that could be an issue. :-) I wish I could back up my copy. Socorro doesn't have the most reliable power grid in the universe, and one lightning strike when I'm playing Z'89 could be the end of a nearly-irreplacable disk. :-( Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From alsplace at pobox.com Thu Jul 29 19:50:01 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:50:01 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> On Jul 29, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > I wish I could back up my copy. Carl England's DEFEATER can, I am sure. > Socorro doesn't have the most > reliable power grid in the universe, and one lightning strike when I'm > playing Z'89 could be the end of a nearly-irreplacable disk. :-( U.P.S., my friend. Even the cheap APC or Belkin ones you can find for around $40-$50 should power a CoCo and drives (monitor, etc. can go to normal surge side). I have my video stuff (TiVo, etc.) on a UPS, my computer, and my internet stuff -- even have a UPS for my CoCO gear for when I get it out of storage. -- A From mechacoco at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 20:15:33 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:15:33 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> Message-ID: On 7/29/10, Allen Huffman wrote: > On Jul 29, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: >> I wish I could back up my copy. > > Carl England's DEFEATER can, I am sure. > --- Carl England has a newer product called BACKUP MAGIC which is much easier to use than the DEFEATER: http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Backup_Magic The problem is figuring out how to purchase a copy of BACKUP MAGIC. Darren From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com Thu Jul 29 20:35:58 2010 From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:35:58 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Backup Magic (Was: Good Memories with Mr. Bjork) In-Reply-To: References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> Message-ID: <47EB88FF-3E70-40F3-93BF-EB6BC29A8DA5@jeanpaulsamson.com> On Jul. 29, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Darren A wrote: > Carl England has a newer product called BACKUP MAGIC which is much > easier to use than the DEFEATER: > > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Backup_Magic > > The problem is figuring out how to purchase a copy of BACKUP MAGIC. I bought a copy of Backup Magic three years ago directly from Carl. He is a subscriber to this list. (Hint: Log in to the subscriber list and search for someone with the name "Spock" in his e-mail address-- that's him.) The CoCo subscriber list log in can be found here: I had to send him a money order and get a copy of the floppy by mail, so the distribution is still decidedly low tech. Backup Magic successfully made bootable copies of only a few of my protected game disks. It failed on: Kyum-Gai: To Be Ninja (Sundog Systems) Buzzard Bait (Tom Mix) Sailor Man (Tim Mix) Time Bandit (Michtron) It did succeed on: Sinistaar (Sundog Systems) Warrior King (Sundog Systems) On Aug. 31, 2007, at 6:11 PM, carl j england wrote: > Backup Magic requires a CoCo3 and two disk drives. Can be used to > backup MOST Copy-Protected disks. Can also be used to transfer the > Copy-Protected disk to your PC (PC must have a floppy drive--has > only been tested using David Kiel's emulator). The "real" copy is a > duplicate of the original and is also Copy-Protected. The emulator > copy will have a "virtual" copy-protection. It cannot be copied using > the emulator, but can be copied under DOS or Windows. > > The price for Backup Magic is $25 (includes shipping) -- JP From keeper63 at cox.net Thu Jul 29 23:03:45 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:03:45 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> All, I have just posted to my website a writeup about an article I found in the April 1984 issue of Color Computer magazine on Aaron Wolfe's website, CoCoCoding. Aaron had linked to his website about another issue in regards to Mr. Bjork's sitting on a quad at age 25 (interesting article and pictures, that!). I started reading thru some of the other issues - and found the Armabot! It was an article on interfacing the Armatron to the Color Computer, something I knew had been done before (there were advertisements for such conversions in the Rainbow, for instance, by Analog Micro Systems), but I had not seen any discussion on how to actually do it (there was an article series about something called the ROS which detailed a general bus interface geared toward robotics - but this had nothing to do with the Armatron, AFAIK). So - I "ripped" a copy of the article and made a PDF of it, and put it on my website, here: http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/106 I credit Aaron Wolfe's website and his collection, as well as the magazine issue; I hope this is OK - I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, I just collect and archive articles on my website dealing with interfacing the Armatron to computers - there were quite a few projects of this nature during that time period. I wanted to announce it here, in case anyone was interested! -- Andrew L. Ayers Glendale, Arizona http://www.phoenixgarage.org/ > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 > From: Aaron Wolfe > Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman wrote: >> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >>> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >>> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >>> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >>> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. >> I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were cranking out so much software. >> >> If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? >> > > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" > rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) > > FWIW, you can read the article online here: > https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine > > (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) it's on page 86. > > I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots > of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or > download. I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on > boring jobs. google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you > can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. > Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like > they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the > matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you > open them. Not ideal but maybe useful. From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 29 23:27:15 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:27:15 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing References: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> Message-ID: <84B0DCE5B71C4B1B80F627141AC0AC00@hackersafa71ff> That particular article in Color Computer Magazine was one of several that detailed the computer control of an Armatron. When my dad gave me all of his CoCo Stuff, that article along with the one in Hot CoCo and Radio-Electronics prompted me to seek out some Armatrons (I've got 6 of them, but haven't converted any as yet). The ROS article that you mention, if I remember correctly, was in Hot CoCo and was part of James J. Barbarello's "Hardware Hacker" series. It was for controlling an Armatron as well. James did a whole series, the first of which was a PIA Pak for interfacing the rest of the series to the CoCo and part of the series detailed an Armatron Connection to his PIA Port Cartridge. If I can find the articles, I'll scan them for you if you like. The article in Radio-Electronics detailed how to connect one to a VIC-20 and if I'm not mistaken, the VIC-20 article mounted the Armatron to a piece of plywood with the motors external (connected by plastic "drive" shafts). I'll see if I can find that one too. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew" To: Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > All, > > I have just posted to my website a writeup about an article I found in > the April 1984 issue of Color Computer magazine on Aaron Wolfe's > website, CoCoCoding. Aaron had linked to his website about another issue > in regards to Mr. Bjork's sitting on a quad at age 25 (interesting > article and pictures, that!). I started reading thru some of the other > issues - and found the Armabot! > > It was an article on interfacing the Armatron to the Color Computer, > something I knew had been done before (there were advertisements for > such conversions in the Rainbow, for instance, by Analog Micro Systems), > but I had not seen any discussion on how to actually do it (there was an > article series about something called the ROS which detailed a general > bus interface geared toward robotics - but this had nothing to do with > the Armatron, AFAIK). > > So - I "ripped" a copy of the article and made a PDF of it, and put it > on my website, here: > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/106 > > I credit Aaron Wolfe's website and his collection, as well as the > magazine issue; I hope this is OK - I am not trying to step on anyone's > toes, I just collect and archive articles on my website dealing with > interfacing the Armatron to computers - there were quite a few projects > of this nature during that time period. > > I wanted to announce it here, in case anyone was interested! > > -- Andrew L. Ayers > Glendale, Arizona > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/ > > >> Message: 8 >> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 >> From: Aaron Wolfe >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman >> wrote: >>> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >>>> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >>>> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >>>> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >>>> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. >>> I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm >>> dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were >>> cranking out so much software. >>> >>> If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever >>> show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls >>> on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert >>> Rider? >>> >> >> Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" >> rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) >> >> FWIW, you can read the article online here: >> https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine >> >> (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) it's on page 86. >> >> I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots >> of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or >> download. I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on >> boring jobs. google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you >> can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. >> Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like >> they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the >> matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you >> open them. Not ideal but maybe useful. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3037 - Release Date: 07/29/10 13:34:00 From aawolfe at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 00:02:43 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:02:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing In-Reply-To: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> References: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Andrew wrote: > All, > > I have just posted to my website a writeup about an article I found in the > April 1984 issue of Color Computer magazine on Aaron Wolfe's website, > CoCoCoding. Aaron had linked to his website about another issue in regards > to Mr. Bjork's sitting on a quad at age 25 (interesting article and > pictures, that!). I started reading thru some of the other issues - and > found the Armabot! > > It was an article on interfacing the Armatron to the Color Computer, > something I knew had been done before (there were advertisements for such > conversions in the Rainbow, for instance, by Analog Micro Systems), but I > had not seen any discussion on how to actually do it (there was an article > series about something called the ROS which detailed a general bus interface > geared toward robotics - but this had nothing to do with the Armatron, > AFAIK). > > So - I "ripped" a copy of the article and made a PDF of it, and put it on my > website, here: > > ? ? ? ?http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/106 > > I credit Aaron Wolfe's website and his collection, as well as the magazine > issue; I hope this is OK - I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, I just > collect and archive articles on my website dealing with interfacing the > Armatron to computers - there were quite a few projects of this nature > during that time period. > Credit should not go to me :) The PDFs on cococoding.com are all from other places. I just OCRed them and put them into Google Docs. Most come from the maltedmedia archive, with the exception of 68 Micro Journal which comes from the Flex User Group archive. The real work was done by those who took the time to scan these in. I've tried to credit them when I can find out who that was, but for many that information seems to be have lost along the way. Since you can find these files on many sites, I think it's OK to post them or parts of them on your own. It's certainly fine by me. > I wanted to announce it here, in case anyone was interested! > > -- Andrew L. Ayers > ? Glendale, Arizona > ? http://www.phoenixgarage.org/ > > >> Message: 8 >> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 >> From: Aaron Wolfe >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Message-ID: >> ? ? ? ? >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman wrote: >>> >>> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >>>> >>>> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >>>> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >>>> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >>>> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. >>> >>> I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm >>> dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were >>> cranking out so much software. >>> >>> If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever >>> show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on >>> the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? >>> >> >> Another interesting bit of trivia. ?I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" >> rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) >> >> FWIW, you can read the article online here: >> >> https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine >> >> (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) ?it's on page 86. >> >> I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots >> of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or >> download. ?I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on >> boring jobs. ?google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you >> can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. >> Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like >> they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the >> matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you >> open them. ?Not ideal but maybe useful. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au Fri Jul 30 08:11:59 2010 From: tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au (brian palmer) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] Backup Magic (Was: Good Memories with Mr. Bjork) Message-ID: <529974.40793.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On Jul. 29, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Darren A wrote: > Carl England has a newer product called BACKUP MAGIC which is much > easier to use than the DEFEATER: > > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Backup_Magic > > The problem is figuring out how to purchase a copy of BACKUP MAGIC. I bought a copy of Backup Magic three years ago directly from Carl.??? He is a subscriber to this list.? (Hint: Log in to the subscriber list? and search for someone with the name "Spock" in his e-mail address-- that's him.) The CoCo subscriber list log in can be found here: I had to send him a money order and get a copy of the floppy by mail,? so the distribution is still decidedly low tech. Backup Magic successfully made bootable copies of only a few of my? protected game disks. It failed on: Kyum-Gai: To Be Ninja (Sundog Systems), It will indeed copy this. And I would say every other Sundog System software that used the Track0 copy protection routine. Buzzard Bait (Tom Mix), This one can be done, But U need to send Carl the copy protected disk so he can tweak the routines to work, Same goes for the others listed here. Sailor Man (Tim Mix) Time Bandit (Michtron) It did succeed on: And I will list the software here it also worked on. Sinistaar (Sundog Systems) Warrior King (Sundog Systems) Caladuril 1 and 2, 7th Link, The Champion, Z-89, Marty's Nightmare, pretty much all off Steve Bjork's games, Those Darn Marbles, Some off the Diecom Games, But not all as this copy protection is a hit or miss using Backup Magic. There is many more I can list But I forget the names now. Some off the games listed are now available in Cracked versions. I have successfully used Back up magic on all off the Cer-Comp software. And other 3rd party software to date. As I said Using Tandy Dos is the best chance off it working. 3rd Party Dos's used their own routines which I think conflict with how Backup Magic works by using the disk basic routines used in the Tandy Dos. On Aug. 31, 2007, at 6:11 PM, carl j england wrote: > Backup Magic requires a CoCo3 and two disk drives.? Can be used to > backup MOST Copy-Protected disks.? Can also be used to transfer the > Copy-Protected disk to your PC (PC must have a floppy drive--has > only been tested using David Kiel's emulator).? The "real" copy is a > duplicate of the original and is also Copy-Protected.? The emulator > copy will have a "virtual" copy-protection.? It cannot be copied using > the emulator, but can be copied under DOS or Windows. > > The price for Backup Magic is $25 (includes shipping) -- JP G'Day Fellow Coconuts. I have to disagree with what software Backup Magic will copy. I will put next to your list the ones that it will copy, I should know as I was the 1st person to ever Beta Test it out and get a full working copy from Carl England. What I did find is that Using a Tandy based DOS would give you the best results for copying, some 3rd party Dos's would not copy certain software etc. Read the Add on I have posted in the earlier section. And I agree If you want to backup your software it is a must to purchase Backup Magic. ?Well when you are talking about copying a protected disk in around 40secs flat it is worth it. No more waiting 5mins or so. laters Briza From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com Fri Jul 30 08:31:14 2010 From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:31:14 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Backup Magic (Was: Good Memories with Mr. Bjork) In-Reply-To: <529974.40793.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <529974.40793.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jul. 30, 2010, at 6:11 AM, brian palmer wrote: > It failed on: > Kyum-Gai: To Be Ninja (Sundog Systems), It will indeed copy this. > And I would say every other Sundog System software that used the > Track0 copy protection routine. Doesn't work on my copy of Kyum-Gai. I tried several times, and Backup Magic just locks up the computer during the copy operation, with colorful garbage characters all over the screen. This was several years ago, and I think I tried some different floppy drives and drive controllers, too, to no avail. Perhaps Kyum-Gai changed copy protection schemes at some point during its life cycle? One day (i.e. some years from now), I hope to get a PC cobbled together with a Catweasel so I can hopefully make backup copies of those other protected disks. (I'm on a Mac laptop at present.) -- JP From keeper63 at cox.net Fri Jul 30 11:24:25 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:24:25 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C52EEA9.3010000@cox.net> John - responses in-line... > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:27:15 -0500 > From: "Little John \(GIMEchip.com\)" > Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Message-ID: <84B0DCE5B71C4B1B80F627141AC0AC00 at hackersafa71ff> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > That particular article in Color Computer Magazine was one of several > that > detailed the computer control of an Armatron. When my dad gave me all That's what I've been finding; I have several of the articles - all the ones I have found so far are up on my site. The more I look, the more I find, it seems. At one point, I collected everything I had and released a "super-archive"; then promptly found another addition after I had published that one! Since then, I have found a few more...ha. > of his > CoCo Stuff, that article along with the one in Hot CoCo and I haven't see anything about a Hot CoCo one - I would be interested in that! > Radio-Electronics prompted me to seek out some Armatrons (I've got 6 > of > them, but haven't converted any as yet). The ROS article that you I have a few Armatrons myself; my original Tomy Armatron from when I was a kid (in OK shape - it kinda got damaged in storage - melted plastic in one spot, but should function OK), a couple of Radio Shack ones (one specifically bought for a conversion - its in really rough shape), and my most recent one, a Discovery Channel "Spark" arm (its one of the latest re-releases! Ugly as sin, though): http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/93 I also know about another re-release, called the Smithsonian Robo-Arm/Bio-Arm: http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/107 > mention, > if I remember correctly, was in Hot CoCo and was part of James J. > Barbarello's "Hardware Hacker" series. It was for controlling an > Armatron as > well. James did a whole series, the first of which was a PIA Pak for Hmm - maybe so; but I distinctly remember a series of articles (of which I only have the two issues for the last two articles - there were three) in the Rainbow; I'll see if I can find the issues later tonight... > interfacing the rest of the series to the CoCo and part of the series > detailed an Armatron Connection to his PIA Port Cartridge. If I can > find the > articles, I'll scan them for you if you like. The article in Yes - I would like that a lot; it would go great in my archive (CoCo and Armatron - I love them both!). > Radio-Electronics detailed how to connect one to a VIC-20 and if I'm > not > mistaken, the VIC-20 article mounted the Armatron to a piece of > plywood with > the motors external (connected by plastic "drive" shafts). I'll see if > I can > find that one too. -John I have that issue and article, and have it scanned in and on my website; I think it is in the "super-archive" I posted: http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/92 Which now has to be re-done... :) Thanks for the feedback on this! -- Andrew L. Ayers Glendale, Arizona From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 30 11:33:30 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:33:30 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing References: <4C52EEA9.3010000@cox.net> Message-ID: <75F2ECF90B454C7E99B120CE6510C6A4@hackersafa71ff> Yes, I remember the article now from Rainbow that you mention. It was by Dennis (can't remember his last name) - he did a lot of articles on hardware for Rainbow and used Deft PASCAL I think for the software side of his hardware articles - oh, just remembered his last name.. Weide. Anyway... you are correct - the ROS was in the Rainbow... I don't remember what J.J. Barbarello Called his, but I'll dig out and scan the articles. I have that whole set of his articles, if I can find them all, I'll scan them all - the most important I think would be part 1 (the PIA Pak) and the later two that dealt with the Armatron - one was the hardware conversion to connect to the PIA Pak and the other was a pretty cool piece of software to control the Arm... I'll get to looking - thanks for posting all the links - I love working with all of this hardware. I've also got to send out a few items I promised folks and hadn't got around to mailing (I currently can't get out because my feet are swollen and I can't walk, but it gets better :-) so I have to depend on Dad making time to get to the Post Office for me.) Thanks for everything guys --- I'm off to check out these awesome links you've posted. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew" To: Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > John - responses in-line... > > > Message: 14 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:27:15 -0500 > > From: "Little John \(GIMEchip.com\)" > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > > Message-ID: <84B0DCE5B71C4B1B80F627141AC0AC00 at hackersafa71ff> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > That particular article in Color Computer Magazine was one of several > > that > > detailed the computer control of an Armatron. When my dad gave me all > > That's what I've been finding; I have several of the articles - all the > ones I have found so far are up on my site. The more I look, the more I > find, it seems. At one point, I collected everything I had and released > a "super-archive"; then promptly found another addition after I had > published that one! Since then, I have found a few more...ha. > > > of his > > CoCo Stuff, that article along with the one in Hot CoCo and > > I haven't see anything about a Hot CoCo one - I would be interested in > that! > > > Radio-Electronics prompted me to seek out some Armatrons (I've got 6 > > of > > them, but haven't converted any as yet). The ROS article that you > > I have a few Armatrons myself; my original Tomy Armatron from when I was > a kid (in OK shape - it kinda got damaged in storage - melted plastic in > one spot, but should function OK), a couple of Radio Shack ones (one > specifically bought for a conversion - its in really rough shape), and > my most recent one, a Discovery Channel "Spark" arm (its one of the > latest re-releases! Ugly as sin, though): > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/93 > > I also know about another re-release, called the Smithsonian > Robo-Arm/Bio-Arm: > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/107 > > > mention, > > if I remember correctly, was in Hot CoCo and was part of James J. > > Barbarello's "Hardware Hacker" series. It was for controlling an > > Armatron as > > well. James did a whole series, the first of which was a PIA Pak for > > Hmm - maybe so; but I distinctly remember a series of articles (of which > I only have the two issues for the last two articles - there were three) > in the Rainbow; I'll see if I can find the issues later tonight... > > > interfacing the rest of the series to the CoCo and part of the series > > detailed an Armatron Connection to his PIA Port Cartridge. If I can > > find the > > articles, I'll scan them for you if you like. The article in > > Yes - I would like that a lot; it would go great in my archive (CoCo and > Armatron - I love them both!). > > > Radio-Electronics detailed how to connect one to a VIC-20 and if I'm > > not > > mistaken, the VIC-20 article mounted the Armatron to a piece of > > plywood with > > the motors external (connected by plastic "drive" shafts). I'll see if > > I can > > find that one too. -John > > I have that issue and article, and have it scanned in and on my website; > I think it is in the "super-archive" I posted: > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/92 > > Which now has to be re-done... > > :) > > Thanks for the feedback on this! > > -- Andrew L. Ayers > Glendale, Arizona > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3038 - Release Date: 07/30/10 01:34:00 From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 30 16:39:17 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:39:17 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20100730203917.GA19204@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 06:50:01PM -0500, Allen Huffman wrote: Hi Allen! > U.P.S., my friend. Even the cheap APC or Belkin ones you can find > for around $40-$50 should power a CoCo and drives Yeah, that's a good plan. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From thompsonxx at yahoo.com Sat Jul 31 14:57:36 2010 From: thompsonxx at yahoo.com (thompsonxx) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:57:36 -0000 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] CoCo 1 on eBay--thinning out collection... Message-ID: Gang-- Still doing some classic computer downsizing... CoCo 1--bare system, tested, working, pics Looks like it's going to go cheap--auction ends Sunday August 1 eBay #230503718010 Picture shows it hooked up to my wife's old B&W TV that she used for her CoCo2 back in the day (yes, we still have the CoCo). Thanks for looking, Jeff From tonypodraza at juno.com Sat Jul 31 21:46:56 2010 From: tonypodraza at juno.com (Tony Podraza) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 01:46:56 GMT Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked Message-ID: <20100731.204656.7295.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> glenside picnic at george schneeweiss; in forrest, il; sept 11, 2010.. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Warns To: aaebill at billerweb.com, alfredhitchcock at dellmagazines.com, angehrg at si.edu, angehrg at tivoli.si.edu, April , arthur.young at nmslab.com, bambeck at physics.montana.edu, russ , Didier Brival , Tony Cascio , Chuck Chiles , "St. Paul Lutheran Church" , coco at maltedmedia.com, coco at Princeton.EDU, Casey Collins , Al Corbi , Tim Costello , Winifred Creamer , Dan Daker , Haband Deals , Dex , dyanega at pop.ucr.edu, edzotti at aol.com, Eric Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c54d25a786fe4e7381st04vuc From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 03:35:53 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:35:53 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM Message-ID: This file: COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC EPROM from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo 3 BASIC ROM but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired and I thought it should at least be preserved as it may be the only one of it's kind. It came from a system that was used by an actual Studio as a MIDI controller using CoCo MIDI Pro, Lyra and UltimuseIII. If anyone has any info on this ROM, it would be greatly appreciated. This EPROM is labeled: MXP-0986 26-334 O/S 8323 12/18/91 I think the 26-334 was actually meant to be 26-3334 (the CoCo 3 catalog number), but on the EPROM label, it was simply: 26-334. I have put the info about it here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom -John From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 03:40:28 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:40:28 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM References: Message-ID: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> Yeah - that link didn't come out right at all - it can be had by visiting: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom Sorry about that guys - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:35 AM Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM > This file: href="http://www.coco3.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91-GIMEchip.com_.zip">COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 > (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC EPROM > from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo 3 BASIC ROM > but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired and I thought it > should at least be preserved as it may be the only one of it's kind. It > came from a system that was used by an actual Studio as a MIDI controller > using CoCo MIDI Pro, Lyra and UltimuseIII. If anyone has any info on this > ROM, it would be greatly appreciated. This EPROM is labeled: > MXP-0986 > 26-334 > O/S 8323 > 12/18/91 > I think the 26-334 was actually meant to be 26-3334 (the CoCo 3 catalog > number), but on the EPROM label, it was simply: 26-334. I have put the > info about it here: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom > -John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 13:38:00 From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 03:53:34 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:53:34 -0500 Subject: [Coco] FOUND: Burke_&_Burke_RSB_Disks Message-ID: After much searching I was able to locate a partial set of RSB. The Disk 1 I do not believe is the actual RSB disk, as it doesn't match the Rainbow Review of this product. Thankfully, however, Disk 2 was the correct disk and is the disk needed to generate the RSB executable file for running DECB under OS-9. This is an Amazing piece of programming. Disk 3 is the result of running Disk 2 and contains RSB ready to run - it was generated by a fellow member of the list from Disk 2 - THANKS MAN! I was beginning to think that RSB was extinct and when I'd almost given up, it landed in my lap. If anyone has the complete set including Disk 1 and the documentation, would you please contact me? I have posted this because Chris Burke released his products as ShareWare (so I've been told & I read it in an archived message as well). And many thanks to the fellow list member who got it working for me. http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/burke__burke_rsb_disks From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 1 06:09:17 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 04:09:17 -0600 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100701100917.GC4616@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 02:35:53AM -0500, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This file: href="http://www.coco3.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91-GIMEchip.com_.zip">COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 > (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC > EPROM from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo > 3 BASIC ROM but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired A customize main ROM? That's really weird. From 91? I believe that's well before anybody put (coco) OS-9 in ROM. Maybe it could be massaged into a .ROM file for the emulators? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 06:38:39 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 05:38:39 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM References: <20100701100917.GC4616@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: Willard, I think it's just a modded coco3 rom - I'm not sure what it does or what the mods are but I had a look at the first few bytes - it's the same at the beginning as the coco3 rom - maybe they just patched some of the coco3 bugs? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willard Goosey" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 5:09 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 02:35:53AM -0500, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: > >> This file: > href="http://www.coco3.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91-GIMEchip.com_.zip">COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91 >> (GIMEchip.com) is an alternate CoCo 3 Super Extended Color BASIC >> EPROM from 12/18/91. I do not know how it differs from a normal CoCo >> 3 BASIC ROM but it was in a broken system that I recently acquired > > A customize main ROM? That's really weird. From 91? I believe > that's well before anybody put (coco) OS-9 in ROM. > > Maybe it could be massaged into a .ROM file for the emulators? > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 13:38:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Thu Jul 1 08:47:26 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 08:47:26 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net> If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the final design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare boards through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is another outlet. They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( Gold Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in my opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as 1 square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit of they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that the 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to learn and not near as complex as Eagle. james On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB Express - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some really cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able to build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless they want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and you guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just like to yell Oh Yeah!) - John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From robert.gault at att.net Thu Jul 1 08:42:47 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 08:42:47 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Copy Protection In-Reply-To: <528892775A4549F08830E76B4709F0F2@OstromPC> References: <542AD21E-281A-4999-A300-60113E3930B0@cox.net> <1D00197B13AB447399259969D0307765@OstromPC> <4C296624.5060609@att.net> <528892775A4549F08830E76B4709F0F2@OstromPC> Message-ID: <4C2C8D47.5040809@att.net> Steve Ostrom wrote: > > Robert, so if I just typed "DOS" the program will load and run the same > way? Geez, now I feel really dumb. That means the copy protection was > removed somehow prior to the disk being made. I still wonder what was > used, and how the directory was changed to show center adjusted text > followed by the real directory. That was a sweet touch! I'll use CDM to > examine the directory track in more detail. > > Thanks! > > -- Steve -- > There could still be some form of copy protection on the disk as we don't know what was on track 34 (or elsewhere.) From robert.gault at att.net Thu Jul 1 09:04:19 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:04:19 -0400 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM In-Reply-To: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> References: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C2C9253.1030403@att.net> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Yeah - that link didn't come out right at all - it can be had by visiting: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom > > Sorry about that guys - John John, I went to the above url and compared the ROM in the zip file with other Coco ROMs. It is identical to the stock Coco3 ROM. What was there about the Coco containing this ROM that made you think it was different from the normal Coco3 ROM? From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 1 10:13:19 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:13:19 -0500 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM References: <086DB91E2AA341D0B40F147567FB55E8@hackersafa71ff> <4C2C9253.1030403@att.net> Message-ID: Mainly, just the way that the ROM was labeled. The board arrived to me outside of a CoCo 3 and had that strange Label on the EPROM. It didn't work at all. When I first saw it, I thought it might be some sort of prototype CoCo 3 due to the EPROM, which was soldered directly to the board and the way the GIME looked. I desoldered it and read it in and labeled it as it was labeled. Not just the EPROM, though - the GIME was a 1986 GIME and doesn't look like any other 1986 GIME in the rest of my CoCo 3's, but after I saw the date on the EPROM - I knew it wasn't a prototype. Every chip on the board appears to have also been replaced, but sockets weren't used which is - well I have no word for it - they should have socketed them as they were replaced. Anyway, the GIME doesn't work - I tried it in other CoCo 3's. I have no use for this GIME if you want to have a look at it - I am inclined to believe it was just a different production run than the other 1986 GIME's that I have. If you want it for whatever purpose, I'll mail it to you, thought I doubt it will be of any use. I think it was just made by a different fab than the other GIME's and that it probably really isn't unique - it's made by VTI. If you want it, just send me a mailing address offlist and I'll pop it in the mail. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gault" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM > Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> Yeah - that link didn't come out right at all - it can be had by >> visiting: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/coco3-basic-rom-mxp-0986_26-334_0-s_8323_12-18-91-rom >> >> Sorry about that guys - John > > John, > > I went to the above url and compared the ROM in the zip file with other > Coco > ROMs. It is identical to the stock Coco3 ROM. > > What was there about the Coco containing this ROM that made you think it > was > different from the normal Coco3 ROM? > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 13:38:00 From asa.rand at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 11:08:03 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 08:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Website update - Review time References: <3AD245691575401EA881BECC11BEA72D@asarand> <4C2B71E1.5040306@cox.net> Message-ID: <4D70A8BDF203499499848CB86F0B2882@asarand> OK. I see. My 14" monitor doesn't let me see the entie width of the screen. When I looked the first time, I didn't notice the extra scroll bar. Thanks, Tim and all the others who replied. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fadden" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Website update - Review time > Look more to the right, and you will see a vertical scroll bar. Use it. > There is no problem with the web page. > > Tim > > On 6/30/2010 9:07 AM, Wayne Campbell wrote: >> Brian, >> >> I looked at the page in the link. The bottom of the page seems to have a >> problem. I'm not sure what is causing the problem. I took a screen pic >> and placed it here: >> >> http://cococoding.com/wayne/problem_page.PNG >> >> Wayne >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Blake" >> >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 7:41 AM >> Subject: [Coco] Website update - Review time >> >> >>> It's been a while since I've had the time to update my website with any >>> CoCo >>> activities. I rectified that this morning. >>> >>> I've spent the last month or so playing with various CoCo gadgetry, and >>> have >>> started reviews on a few. The first one out of the gates is Cloud9's >>> HDB-DOS/DriveWire ROM Pak. >>> >>> Here's the link: http://coco.randomrodder.com/reviews.html#hdbdos >>> >>> The next review out of the gate should be Roger's MicroSD Drive Pak. >>> Maybe a >>> week or so unless I get an unexpected break.... >>> >>> Hope some folks find these reviews informative if not a little >>> entertaining... >>> >>> >>> Later, >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 15:17:10 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> References: <201006302251.47706.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <201007011517.10334.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Wednesday 30 June 2010, Little John wrote: >Gene, >I usually generate excellon drill files and gerb274x using EAGLE's default >CAM processor settings. How much would the Drills cost? I could probably >talk my dad into getting them for you. This would be great - It would > allow me to get some of this stuff tested. I release all of my projects > as "open" projects so anybody can use them as they see fit. Prototyping > is getting more difficult for me due to the decline of my eyesight and > this would definitely be a great boon to my projects. >Thanks for all your help - John I'll have to check & get back to you, John. My usual source, Hemley? over in Ohio doesn't have a good selection of engraving type bits, just decent carbide utility stuff at good prices, like a 4 flute upcut TiN coated 1/4" mill at about $12 a copy, flat or ball nosed. I have end mills to about 1/16", with 1/8" shanks, but they are quite fragile because of the 1/2" length of the cutting flutes and will need active mist lube at about 100 psi and 20k rpms more than my spindle can do. Engraving stuff should be 1/8" shanks all the way to the single flute V tip. I might look into the feasibility of side mounting a belt driven higher speed spindle if this should turn out to be too slow. Or maybe even a trim router if I can find a short one that would snuggle in under the gear case. I'll take some measurements with me the next time I hit Lowes & see what they have. FWIW, none of the dremel made tools can be used for something like this because of the poor bit rigidity they all have. It would crawl 1/16" sideways just from the side pressure of moving into the cut. Very poorly made tools even if I have worn out 6 or 8 of them over the last 55 years. So I'll have to look around and see what is available. Today I'm all stove up, overdid it yesterday cutting down and cutting up the bottom 20 feet of a couple of pine trees that failed the high wind test, and getting two dump truck loads of them to the curb for this mornings free pickup. Our pin oak in the front yard mainly survived, and I was told over a beer, by one of the neighbors last night, that I should now be building benches under it since its the only shade tree in the neighborhood that survived. ;-) Under active consideration... > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Heskett" >To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:51 PM >Subject: Re: [Coco] Prototype PCB's > >> On Wednesday 30 June 2010, sales at gimechip.com wrote: >>>Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small >>> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware >>> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB >>> Express - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they >>> accepted Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I >>> don't want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some >>> really cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do >>> eventually release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to >>> be able to build anything I design without having to order it from me >>> (unless they want to). By releasing these things, people can improve >>> them, build their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - >>> It's fun and you guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid >>> man, I just like to yell Oh Yeah!) - John >> >> John, can you get gcode (rs274-d I believe it is) out of Eagle? I have >> a small cnc milling machine that can do about 4"x10" boards max. No >> bits ATM, >> but thats fixable if I can get the bit costs back. Not terribly speedy >> as the spindle is all tapped out at 2500 rpms. >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2974 - Release Date: 06/30/10 >13:38:00 > > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) You are fairminded, just and loving. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 15:34:45 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:34:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday 01 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try > batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the final > design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get > the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare boards > through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is > another outlet. > >They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( Gold > Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . > For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in my > opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as 1 > square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit of > they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that the > 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is > restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service > ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats > with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to learn > and not near as complex as Eagle. > >james > >On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: >> Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small >> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware >> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB Express >> - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted >> Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't >> want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some really >> cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually >> release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able to >> build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless they >> want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build >> their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and you >> guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just like >> to yell Oh Yeah!) - John >> And that lead time is probably faster than I could round up all the stuff, so you might consider that. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 1 17:17:46 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:17:46 -0600 Subject: [Coco] COCO3-BASIC-ROM-MXP-0986_26-334_0-S_8323_12-18-91.ROM In-Reply-To: References: <20100701100917.GC4616@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100701211746.GA5886@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 05:38:39AM -0500, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Willard, I think it's just a modded coco3 rom - I'm not sure what it does > or what the mods are but I had a look at the first few bytes - it's the > same at the beginning as the coco3 rom - maybe they just patched some of > the coco3 bugs? Well, Gault says it's the same as the regular ROM. Which is really strange. Sounds like it was from a weird computer though, so who knows? It would have been cool if there'd been bug fixes, or something like DeKok's Custom BASIC. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From operator at coco3.com Thu Jul 1 21:18:33 2010 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:18:33 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> References: <201006302251.47706.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <20100702011832.B0C6AD4C0E@qs281.pair.com> At 10:30 PM 6/30/2010, you wrote: >Gene, >I usually generate excellon drill files and gerb274x using EAGLE's >default CAM processor settings. How much would the Drills cost? I >could probably talk my dad into getting them for you. This would be >great - It would allow me to get some of this stuff tested. I >release all of my projects as "open" projects so anybody can use >them as they see fit. Prototyping is getting more difficult for me >due to the decline of my eyesight and this would definitely be a >great boon to my projects. >Thanks for all your help - John John, Something odd is happening. I've received about 30 PayPal notices that the same transaction ID keeps getting subitted for a $5 payment, and this has continued since yesterday and occurs at random times. Are you trying to get your link posted in the tag cloud? Please let me know what is going on. -- ~ Roger Taylor From jdaggett at gate.net Fri Jul 2 07:37:48 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 07:37:48 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's In-Reply-To: <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: , <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C2DCF8C.16680.13BC2F@jdaggett.gate.net> On 1 Jul 2010 at 15:34, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Thursday 01 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > >If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try > > batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the final > > design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get > > the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare boards > > through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is > > another outlet. > > > >They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( Gold > > Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . > > For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in my > > opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as 1 > > square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit of > > they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that the > > 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is > > restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service > > ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats > > with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to learn > > and not near as complex as Eagle. > > > >james > > > >On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: > >> Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in small > >> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware > >> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB Express > >> - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted > >> Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't > >> want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some really > >> cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually > >> release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able to > >> build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless they > >> want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build > >> their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and you > >> guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just like > >> to yell Oh Yeah!) - John > >> > > And that lead time is probably faster than I could round up all the stuff, > so you might consider that. > I deal with mostly surface mount Technology, If I go out with a board with pads for a new device in my library then I make sure the part is on hand before the board goes out. I print a 1x scale of the layout and verify the part and the layout match. On through hole designs that can be done with little chance of an error. james From random.rodder at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 13:08:28 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:08:28 -0400 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 In-Reply-To: <238844465.751159.1277844499416.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <238844465.751159.1277844499416.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Mark, I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first MPI from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you piggybacked on IC5... http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette wrote: > John, > > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added as > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. > > Is she drinking again? :) > > Regards, > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sales at gimechip.com > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it can > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried GAL > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers installed > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building > things -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > John, > > > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) > > > > A few observations on your procedure. > > > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the mod > > after it was installed. > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install both? > > > > A good training exercise. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the > 26-3124 > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper wires. > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. > > -John > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 > 13:35:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Fri Jul 2 14:55:14 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:55:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Brian, Depending on when the mod was put in, I have enhanced the installation. I don't have the info in front of me right now. The IC could very well be an inhouse chip, ie: coded. It is a 74ls10. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Blake To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:08:28 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 Mark, I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first MPI from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you piggybacked on IC5... http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette wrote: > John, > > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added as > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. > > Is she drinking again? :) > > Regards, > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sales at gimechip.com > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it can > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried GAL > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers installed > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building > things -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > John, > > > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) > > > > A few observations on your procedure. > > > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the mod > > after it was installed. > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install both? > > > > A good training exercise. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the > 26-3124 > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper wires. > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. > > -John > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 > 13:35:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From random.rodder at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 15:29:36 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:29:36 -0400 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 In-Reply-To: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: If I had to guess, based on what was told to me, I'd say the upgrade time was late '04 or early '05. If I'm not mistaken, he bought a 512k CoCo3 from you about the same time - have to dig out the papers to be sure and not clue where those are at, lol. The coded IC would make sense as the one used in the upgrade is 16 pins and a 74LS10 is 14 pins. I used one of John's GAL upgrades; it works fine so far. I want to try the 74LS10 just for the helluvit... On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Mark Marlette wrote: > Brian, > > Depending on when the mod was put in, I have enhanced the installation. > > I don't have the info in front of me right now. > > The IC could very well be an inhouse chip, ie: coded. It is a 74ls10. > > Regards, > > Mark > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Blake > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:08:28 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > Mark, > > I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first > MPI > from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 > was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you > piggybacked on IC5... > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg > > The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it > doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette >wrote: > > > John, > > > > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added > as > > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. > > > > Is she drinking again? :) > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: > > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it > can > > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried > GAL > > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be > > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more > > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun > > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers > installed > > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building > > things -John > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Marlette" > > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) > > > > > > A few observations on your procedure. > > > > > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. > > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the > mod > > > after it was installed. > > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install > both? > > > > > > A good training exercise. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: sales at gimechip.com > > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) > > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > > > > > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the > > 26-3124 > > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: > > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 > > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper > wires. > > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the > > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. > > > -John > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 > > 13:35:00 > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 17:55:04 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:55:04 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's References: <201006302251.47706.gene.heskett@gmail.com><61459044AFBE462E9EC1BD1E85D08A19@hackersafa71ff> <20100702011832.B0C6AD4C0E@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <6BBA8BCFB0094F9ABC0337929909CB4B@hackersafa71ff> Roger - I have no idea - I just sent a $5 donation a day or so ago, but nothing strange about it - I used the "Tip The Jar" on your site. I've only "tipped the jar" twice so it shouldn't keep sending notices. Maybe paypal is freaking out? I'll log into my account and see. I try to send $5 whenever I can - I figure every little bit helps. My internet was off late yesterday until today - they were digging a water line and dug through the line. It's fixed now, so I'm back online. Let me go see if I can figure out what's happening at paypal - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Taylor" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Prototype PCB's > At 10:30 PM 6/30/2010, you wrote: >>Gene, >>I usually generate excellon drill files and gerb274x using EAGLE's >>default CAM processor settings. How much would the Drills cost? I >>could probably talk my dad into getting them for you. This would be >>great - It would allow me to get some of this stuff tested. I >>release all of my projects as "open" projects so anybody can use >>them as they see fit. Prototyping is getting more difficult for me >>due to the decline of my eyesight and this would definitely be a >>great boon to my projects. >>Thanks for all your help - John > > > John, > > Something odd is happening. I've received about 30 PayPal notices > that the same transaction ID keeps getting subitted for a $5 payment, > and this has continued since yesterday and occurs at random > times. Are you trying to get your link posted in the tag cloud? > > Please let me know what is going on. > > > > -- > ~ Roger Taylor > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 19:38:47 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:38:47 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Prototype PCB's References: , <4C2C8E5E.8145.3126B3@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007011534.45365.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C2DCF8C.16680.13BC2F@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: The place I use for production includes a stencil free if needed for surface mount parts. It makes it easier, but my eyes are not what they were this time last year... Dad is hooking me up a big magnifier to the bench so I can keep working on this stuff. I have the best dad in the world :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Prototype PCB's > On 1 Jul 2010 at 15:34, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Thursday 01 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >> >If you don't mind three weeks minimum lead time for boards try >> > batchpcb.com. What is nice with them is that you can also make the >> > final >> > design available to sell on their market place webpage. So when you get >> > the layout to where you finally want then anyone can buy the bare >> > boards >> > through batchpcb.com. If you want fster service Adcance Circuit is >> > another outlet. >> > >> >They take Gerbers and panelize them and ship out to a house in China( >> >Gold >> > Pheonix). Fast is not a marquee of their work. Price is sort of okay . >> > For 2 layer boards they are $2 or $2.50 a square inch. Four layer in >> > my >> > opinion is high at $8 a square inch. You can order a board as small as >> > 1 >> > square inch to 10x15 inch and one of a kind. PCBExpress has the limit >> > of >> > they accept orders from their own software. Not bad but consider that >> > the >> > 4 layer miniboard service gets you 3 boards at a specific size is >> > restrictive. Still the price is very competive. Their miniboard service >> > ends up at about $3.70 per sq in with shipping. There are som caveats >> > with their software that is not all that bad. It is rather easy to >> > learn >> > and not near as complex as Eagle. >> > >> >james >> > >> >On 30 Jun 2010 at 21:27, sales at gimechip.com wrote: >> >> Can anyone recommend a good place to have prototype PCB's made in >> >> small >> >> (like 2 or 3) quantity for cheap. It would help me get these hardware >> >> designs out there faster. I have checked with Express PCB or PCB >> >> Express >> >> - their miniboard service would be great, that is, if they accepted >> >> Gerber's. As it is, I know my way around EAGLE pretty well - I don't >> >> want to have to learn a new CAD/CAM/etc. Package. And I have some >> >> really >> >> cool designs that I'd like to get out there, and yes, I do eventually >> >> release the entire designs for all to see - I want people to be able >> >> to >> >> build anything I design without having to order it from me (unless >> >> they >> >> want to). By releasing these things, people can improve them, build >> >> their own, etc. - That's why I enjoy doing this stuff - It's fun and >> >> you >> >> guys Rock Out Loud! Oh Yeah!!! (nope, I'm not Kool-Aid man, I just >> >> like >> >> to yell Oh Yeah!) - John >> >> >> >> And that lead time is probably faster than I could round up all the >> stuff, >> so you might consider that. >> > > > I deal with mostly surface mount Technology, If I go out with a board with > pads for a new > device in my library then I make sure the part is on hand before the board > goes out. I print a > 1x scale of the layout and verify the part and the layout match. > > On through hole designs that can be done with little chance of an error. > > james > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 19:45:15 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:45:15 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 References: <238844465.751159.1277844499416.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Here is another example of the 74LS10 upgrade: http://onlyonsaturdaynight.com/CoCoZilla/mpi3124.html The purpose of piggybacking the 74LS10 I.C. is to provide power to the 74LS10, so there are several I.C.'s that could be used for the piggyback operation. As Mark has stated, that is a 74LS10, just numbered differently. There are ECG and NTE equivalents as well as house numbered devices of the chip, etc. (also as Mark stated.) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Blake" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > Mark, > > I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first > MPI > from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what Cloud9 > was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like you > piggybacked on IC5... > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg > > The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it > doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette > wrote: > >> John, >> >> I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added >> as >> I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. >> >> Is she drinking again? :) >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: sales at gimechip.com >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> >> Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: >> If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it >> can >> fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried >> GAL >> (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be >> unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more >> difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have fun >> coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers >> installed >> so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building >> things -John >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Marlette" >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> >> >> > John, >> > >> > I have done a few of these mods.... :) >> > >> > A few observations on your procedure. >> > >> > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. >> > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the >> > mod >> > after it was installed. >> > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install >> > both? >> > >> > A good training exercise. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: sales at gimechip.com >> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) >> > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > >> > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the >> 26-3124 >> > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: >> > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 >> > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper >> > wires. >> > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with the >> > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a 16v8. >> > -John >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: 06/28/10 >> 13:35:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 2 23:08:37 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 22:08:37 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 References: <176608007.6098.1278096914850.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Brian, I just noticed that you said the chip used in this particular upgrade is 16 pins - and so can't be a 74ls10. The picture is kind of blurred and I can't make out the part number. Could you tell me how the chip is numbered? Obviously, the 74LS10 isn't the only way to upgrade the MPI - basically, you just change the addresseing based on A7, as well as CTS* and SLENB* so there are numerous different ways to obtain the same result. The reason that I used the 16V8 gal is that it was just easier for me and my lame eyesight to work with :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Blake" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 > If I had to guess, based on what was told to me, I'd say the upgrade time > was late '04 or early '05. If I'm not mistaken, he bought a 512k CoCo3 > from > you about the same time - have to dig out the papers to be sure and not > clue > where those are at, lol. > > The coded IC would make sense as the one used in the upgrade is 16 pins > and > a 74LS10 is 14 pins. > > I used one of John's GAL upgrades; it works fine so far. I want to try the > 74LS10 just for the helluvit... > > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Mark Marlette > wrote: > >> Brian, >> >> Depending on when the mod was put in, I have enhanced the installation. >> >> I don't have the info in front of me right now. >> >> The IC could very well be an inhouse chip, ie: coded. It is a 74ls10. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Brian Blake >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:08:28 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> >> Mark, >> >> I don't know for sure if this is a fact, but, the guys I bought my first >> MPI >> from (an eBay purchase in 2006) said you (Cloud9 before I knew what >> Cloud9 >> was...) did the upgrade on it. According to a pic I took it looks like >> you >> piggybacked on IC5... >> >> http://coco.randomrodder.com/images/c9mpi_upgd.jpg >> >> The IC on it doesn't appear to be a 74LS10, and from what I can tell, it >> doesn't quite match the diagram of using a 74LS10, either... >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Mark Marlette > >wrote: >> >> > John, >> > >> > I don't recall which IC I piggyback on but there are only 3 wires added >> as >> > I recall. The rest are direct connects, no legs bent up. >> > >> > Is she drinking again? :) >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: sales at gimechip.com >> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:39:09 -0000 (UTC) >> > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > >> > Mark, I did just think of another caveat to this method: >> > If an MPI gets "wiggled" it can fry the '245 or CPU in the CoCo and it >> can >> > fry the '245 in the MPI. With the GAL mod - a fried 245 likely=a fried >> GAL >> > (no, not my girlfriend drinking), whereas the 74LS10 would likely be >> > unaffected. So replacing the '245 with a piggybacked GAL would be more >> > difficult than replacing the '245 with the 74LS10 mod. Still, I have >> > fun >> > coming up with all of this stuff. When my dad gets the magnifiers >> installed >> > so I'll be able to see to solder again, I'll be back at building >> > things -John >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Mark Marlette" >> > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:28 PM >> > Subject: Re: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > >> > >> > > John, >> > > >> > > I have done a few of these mods.... :) >> > > >> > > A few observations on your procedure. >> > > >> > > 1. 16v8 is ~1.00, 74LS10 is ~$0.50. >> > > 2. Difference between cut trace & cut pin? I have never reversed the >> mod >> > > after it was installed. >> > > 3. 100% compatible with the Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade, install >> both? >> > > >> > > A good training exercise. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > >> > > Mark >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: sales at gimechip.com >> > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> > > Sent: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:49:57 -0000 (UTC) >> > > Subject: [Coco] 26-3124 M.P.I. Upgrade #2 >> > > >> > > I've just posted my method of using a 16v8 GAL chip to upgrade the >> > 26-3124 >> > > M.P.I. to CoCo 3 compatibility here: >> > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 >> > > Normally, this is done with a 74LS10, a trace cut, and some jumper >> wires. >> > > My method DOES NOT require a trace cut and is 100% compatible with >> > > the >> > > Tandy Satellite Board Upgrade. The caveat? You have to program a >> > > 16v8. >> > > -John >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Coco mailing list >> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Coco mailing list >> > > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2969 - Release Date: >> > 06/28/10 >> > 13:35:00 >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2975 - Release Date: 07/01/10 01:35:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 3 19:12:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 18:12:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends Message-ID: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed up and posted by tomorrow. Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that crop up. Your Friend - Lil' John From badfrog at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 21:57:59 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 20:57:59 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: Somebody please make one so I can buy it. :) On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. > > It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com > > Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed up and posted by tomorrow. > > Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that crop up. > > Your Friend - Lil' John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 3 22:18:08 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 21:18:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: If there is enough interest, I will have some boards made. The buffer PCB will cost me about $20 each in lots of 10. I haven't calculated the cost of the slot board yet. The slot board is designed so that each slot can be either a standard CoCo edge card socket OR a 40-pin header. I have negotiated the purchase of 1000 coco cart sockets, I should have them soon. I have also designed it so that each slot has an added header that makes a few additional things available (such as 3.3V). I am working on getting the slot board ready to upload to CoCo3.com. Now, anyone who wants to take the time to debug the design and make some and sell them - go ahead - I don't do this for profit - I do this for you folks. Now, I haven't tested the design yet and it was designed in less than 9 hours, so bugs likely exist. By posting it, I hope others will be able to catch design flaws :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > Somebody please make one so I can buy it. :) > > > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: >> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >> >> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >> >> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >> up and posted by tomorrow. >> >> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that >> crop up. >> >> Your Friend - Lil' John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2980 - Release Date: 07/03/10 13:35:00 From snhirsch at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 09:00:06 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On a side note, how big was the file you could not load with DriveWire > 4? The only size limit *should* be available ram, but for very large > images you may need to give the virtual machine more room with a > command line argument to java: > > java -Xmx512m > > for example to grant 512MB ram to the process. Aaron, I finally got back to trying the problem disk image. Increasing the memory setting as you suggested did not work. It fails with the following when trying to mount a 128MB image found in one of the older Yahoo group zip files (I'm not trying to boot the image, simply to access it): hirsch at duo:/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01$ java -Xmx512m -jar DriveWire.jar 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwserver-1 ] wireserver.DriveWireServer: DriveWire Server 3.9.57 (06/05/2010) starting up 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwserver-1 ] wireserver.DriveWireServer: reading config from 'config.xml' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwserver-1 ] uration.ConfigurationUtils: ConfigurationUtils.locate(): base is null, name is config.xml 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwserver-1 ] uration.ConfigurationUtils: Loading configuration from the path config.xml 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwserver-1 ] wireserver.DriveWireServer: Starting protocol handler #0: DriveWire4 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] lhandler.DWProtocolHandler: handler #0: starting... 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwUIserver-10 ] drivewireserver.DWUIThread: run 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: init /dev/ttyUSB0 for handler #0 (logging bytes: false) 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dskwriter-9 ] olhandler.DWDiskLazyWriter: started, write interval is 15000 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: attempting to open device '/dev/ttyUSB0' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: Note: RXTX Version mismatch here is not a problem... 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwUIserver-10 ] drivewireserver.DWUIThread: UI listening on port 6800 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwUIserver-10 ] drivewireserver.DWUIThread: UI waiting for connection Experimental: JNI_OnLoad called. WARNING: RXTX Version mismatch Jar version = RXTX-2.2pre1 native lib Version = RXTX-2.1-7 RXTX Warning: Removing stale lock file. /var/lock/LCK..ttyUSB0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: setting port params to 460800 8N1 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] ocolhandler.DWSerialDevice: succesfully opened /dev/ttyUSB0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] otocolhandler.DWDiskDrives: disk drives init for handler #0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] otocolhandler.DWDiskDrives: loading diskset 'dw4boot-6809l2-becker' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] .apache.commons.vfs.VfsLog: Using "/tmp/vfs_cache" as temporary files store. 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] fs.cache.SoftRefFilesCache: putFile: file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: New DWDisk for '/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: read 2221 sectors from 'file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk' 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] otocolhandler.DWDiskDrives: loaded disk 'file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/nos96809l2v030209coco3_becker.dsk' in drive 0 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 DEBUG [dwproto-0-8 ] fs.cache.SoftRefFilesCache: putFile: file:///net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/coco3fpga_old_os9.dsk 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: New DWDisk for '/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/coco3fpga_old_os9.dsk' Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 222880 at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.(DWDisk.java:44) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDiskDrives.LoadDiskFromFile(DWDiskDrives.java:145) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDiskDrives.LoadDiskSet(DWDiskDrives.java:73) at com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWProtocolHandler.run(DWProtocolHandler.java:182) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619) -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 09:19:53 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > 04 Jul 2010 08:56:52 INFO [dwproto-0-8 ] r.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk: New > DWDisk for '/net/ips/dw4beta-2.01/disks/coco3fpga_old_os9.dsk' > > Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: > 222880 > at > com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) Ding! Here's the problem: ----------------------- cut here -------------- public class DWDisk { ... public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 bits? .... private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; ---------------------------------------------- Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. I'll try bumping that up and rebuilding. Steve -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 09:56:14 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >> Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: >> 222880 >> at >> com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) > > Ding! Here's the problem: > > ----------------------- cut here -------------- > > public class DWDisk { > > ... > > public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 > bits? > > .... > > private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. I'll try > bumping that up and rebuilding. Ok, I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. With all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to use a lot of memory. Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? That might be a more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. -- From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 4 11:55:14 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , Message-ID: Hi! Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? Thank you Jorge Machin _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 16:18:40 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:18:40 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >>> >>> Exception in thread "dwproto-0-8" >>> java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 222880 >>> ? ? ? at >>> com.groupunix.drivewireserver.dwprotocolhandler.DWDisk.loadSectors(DWDisk.java:283) >> >> Ding! ?Here's the problem: >> >> ----------------------- cut here -------------- >> >> public class DWDisk { >> >> ... >> >> public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 >> bits? >> >> .... >> >> private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> >> Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. ?I'll try >> bumping that up and rebuilding You'll find that many settings are "hard coded". This is typical of code I plan to replace and do not want to expose a setting into the config which will become unnecessary. Plan on doing simple edits to the source if you want to experiment. > > Ok, ?I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. With > all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to use a > lot of memory. > > Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? ?That might be a > more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. > I originally wrote it to use memory mapped files. That works OK for local things, but when you consider that we can mount disks from web sites, ftp sites, via ssh, even from inside a zipped tar file on a remote server... there has to be some cache to contain the image. Some protocols/mechanisms simply do not allow random access, and performance on things like web disks without a local cache can be miserable. I'm not happy with the current solution to this problem, which is an in memory array of sector objects (the sector data and some control info used by the lazy writer). Feel free to implement an improved version, but let me know if you do, since I'll probably be rewriting it myself someday otherwise. > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 16:31:44 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:31:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote: > > Hi! > > > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? > > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They work in level 1. > > > > Thank you > > > > Jorge Machin > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From lothan at newsguy.com Sun Jul 4 16:32:55 2010 From: lothan at newsguy.com (Lothan) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:32:55 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can be allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Hirsch" > On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> Ding! Here's the problem: >> >> ----------------------- cut here -------------- >> >> public class DWDisk { >> >> ... >> >> public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 >> bits? >> >> .... >> >> private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> >> Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. I'll try >> bumping that up and rebuilding. > > Ok, I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. > With all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to > use a lot of memory. > > Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? That might be a > more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 16:46:32 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:46:32 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Lothan wrote: > Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps > List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for > each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the > array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can be > allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. > It's been a while... IIRC the reason I didn't use a dynamic sized type is that the CoCo can request or write to any sector at any time, and there didn't seem to be any elegant way to do sparse arrays... maybe a hash on sector number would work. There may be other reasons that I'm not remembering, of course a List would be much nicer so I'm hoping I had a good reason not to use it :) I will revisit this entire section at some point. I do appreciate the suggestions. There are a number of areas in the DW4 server that are "less than awesome". In many cases one thing was written quickly to support another that I simply found more interesting and spent more time on. If you guys want to take a look at the code and make improvements or even just offer ideas, great! > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Steven Hirsch" > >> On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >>> Ding! ?Here's the problem: >>> >>> ----------------------- cut here -------------- >>> >>> public class DWDisk { >>> >>> ... >>> >>> public static final int MAX_SECTORS = 122880; // what is coco's max? 24 >>> bits? >>> >>> .... >>> >>> private DWDiskSector[] sectors = new DWDiskSector[MAX_SECTORS]; >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Looks like a hard-coded assumption about maximum sector offset. ?I'll try >>> bumping that up and rebuilding. >> >> Ok, ?I had to increase that to 516096 to allow for a 128MB disk image. >> With all of the disk buffers allocated on the heap, the process starts to >> use a lot of memory. >> >> Is it possible to deal with memory-mapped files in Java? ?That might be a >> more elegant way to do this than a literal heap-allocation. > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sun Jul 4 17:34:39 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:34:39 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 04:31:44PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra > wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow > > NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program > > in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? > > > > > > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They > work in level 1. Then set /t1 and the terminal to 3008N1 and either "shell <>>> /t1" or "tsmon /t1". The bitbanger isn't very fast, and it hogs the CPU. Try to scrounge up a real rs-232 pak. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 4 17:42:32 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:42:32 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , , , , <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: Thank you. Do I need to use the same modules (scbbt and scbbt_t1 ) if I use a real rs-232 pak? Jorge Machin > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:34:39 -0600 > From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org > To: coco at maltedmedia.com > Subject: Re: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session > > On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 04:31:44PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow > > > NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program > > > in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? > > > > > > > > > > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They > > work in level 1. > > Then set /t1 and the terminal to 3008N1 and either "shell <>>> /t1" or > "tsmon /t1". > > The bitbanger isn't very fast, and it hogs the CPU. Try to scrounge > up a real rs-232 pak. > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 17:54:09 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 17:54:09 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <20100704213439.GA26930@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra wrote: > > Thank you. Do I need to use the same modules (scbbt and scbbt_t1 ) if I use a real rs-232 pak? > the bbt modules are for the bit banger. also I gave you the name wrong, its t1_scbbt. use sc6551 and tX_sc6551 for a serial pak, otherwise its the same. you can find which modules support what hardware by reading through the "standard.bl" file found in NITROS9/6809l2/bootlists on a standard 80 track nitros9 disk. it is well commented. > > > Jorge Machin > >> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:34:39 -0600 >> From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org >> To: coco at maltedmedia.com >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Connect to a NitrOS-9 session >> >> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 04:31:44PM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi! >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Does anybody knows how can I configure a NitrOS-9 box to allow >> > > NitrOS-9 sessions using a bitbanger cable and a terminal program >> > > in the client side? Is it is possible with OS-9 level 1? >> > > >> > > >> > >> > You just need to have the scbbt and scbbt_t1 modules loaded. They >> > work in level 1. >> >> Then set /t1 and the terminal to 3008N1 and either "shell <>>> /t1" or >> "tsmon /t1". >> >> The bitbanger isn't very fast, and it hogs the CPU. Try to scrounge >> up a real rs-232 pak. >> >> Willard >> -- >> Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org >> Socorro, New Mexico, USA >> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. >> -- R.E. Howard >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Jul 4 18:09:31 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:09:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> First A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while powered up. Second why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on the dip switches and you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. Third What is the function of Q1? Fourth Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that are tied at but just a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large plane on both sides is GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise immunity. Either use one ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs experience in PC layout and design of portable electronics. SO these questions do come from someone that has experience and questions about the design. james On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. > > It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com > > Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed up and posted by tomorrow. > > Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that crop up. > > Your Friend - Lil' John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Sun Jul 4 19:05:24 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 09:05:24 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: <4C3113B4.5060607@iinet.net.au> Aaron Wolfe wrote: > There are a number of areas in the > DW4 server that are "less than awesome". LOL! OK a heads-up Aaron, I'm going to use that one at some point! :P Reminds me of the dream sequence in Kung Fu Panda. "There is no charge... for awesomeness!" Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From gene.heskett at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 19:16:24 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 19:16:24 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Sunday 04 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >First > >A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and > the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while powered up. > >Second > >why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > the dip switches and you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to > frustration. > >Third > >What is the function of Q1? > >Fourth > >Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > are tied at but just a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 > and then this large plane on both sides is GND. You also have fingers > that are floating that is bad for noise immunity. Either use one ground > or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 volts in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. >just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. > >By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs > experience in PC layout and design of portable electronics. SO these > questions do come from someone that has experience and questions about > the design. > >james > >On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >> >> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot- >>mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-malt >>edmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >> >> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >> up and posted by tomorrow. >> >> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any >> that crop up. >> >> Your Friend - Lil' John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >-- >Coco mailing list >Coco at maltedmedia.com >http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) "My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!" "Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" -- Doonesbury From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 09:21:36 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 09:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Lothan wrote: >> Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps >> List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for >> each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the >> array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can be >> allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. >> > > It's been a while... IIRC the reason I didn't use a dynamic sized > type is that the CoCo can request or write to any sector at any time, > and there didn't seem to be any elegant way to do sparse arrays... > maybe a hash on sector number would work. There may be other reasons > that I'm not remembering, of course a List would be much nicer so I'm > hoping I had a good reason not to use it :) I will revisit this > entire section at some point. Why not an array of references to (lazily) heap-allocated sector buffers? If the sector is never accessed you only waste one pointer per image sector. Worst case, you'll be slightly worse off than the current architecture. I understand the point in your earlier note about remote images, but hopefully these would tend to be small and could continue to be read in their entirety up front. Steve -- From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 09:40:10 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:40:10 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff><4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <77C7BE8CFA0F4ACBA24FEDD76D21B22D@hackersafa71ff> Part 2 is here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-2-of-3-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com I'll go over it again and try to fix problems pointed out. I have no degree (yet anyway - would like to go to school for this stuff). Basically I've got three years of playing with the vintage computers that dad gave me and the knowledge that dad has passed on to me over the years, plus tons of reading. Anyway, this thing may not work - but - there is enough information here so that someone could make a better design. The MPI circuitry is actually an amazingly simple design - I think the wheel might be one of the few designs that are simpler than the MPI (that is a joke). The whole thing could be stuck into the smallest of CPLD's. I may eventually do that. Anyway - point out the problems and I'll try to fix them. It keeps me going. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On Sunday 04 July 2010, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >>First >> >>A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are >> running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and >> the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while powered up. >> >>Second >> >>why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on >> the dip switches and you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to >> frustration. >> >>Third >> >>What is the function of Q1? >> >>Fourth >> >>Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that >> are tied at but just a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 >> and then this large plane on both sides is GND. You also have fingers >> that are floating that is bad for noise immunity. Either use one ground >> or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. >> > TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to > add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground > bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 > volts > in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. > >>just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. >> >>By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs >> experience in PC layout and design of portable electronics. SO these >> questions do come from someone that has experience and questions about >> the design. >> >>james >> >>On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >>> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >>> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >>> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >>> >>> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >>> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >>> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot- >>>mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-malt >>>edmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >>> >>> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >>> up and posted by tomorrow. >>> >>> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any >>> that crop up. >>> >>> Your Friend - Lil' John >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >>-- >>Coco mailing list >>Coco at maltedmedia.com >>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > "My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!" > "Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" > -- Doonesbury > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2982 - Release Date: 07/04/10 13:35:00 From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 10:01:21 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? Message-ID: Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this out for the life of me. Steve -- From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 10:05:45 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 09:05:45 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look see: > First > > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > running a stock > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the > board > becomes detached while powered up. > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. > Second > > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > the dip switches and > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. > If I build it, I'll know what the DIP swicthes do. But again easily fixed - jumper wires instead of the DIP switches if you don't want the DIP switches. > Third > > What is the function of Q1? > It is supposed to tell the ATX power supply to switch on when the CoCo Powers on - this was stated in the text. However, this is pretty lame - A reed relay might have been better or just a switch to turn the darned thing on. Yeah - the switch probably would be best. > Fourth > > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > are tied at but just > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large > plane on both sides is > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise > immunity. Either use one > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. I did use only one ground - the GND/1 is the Library Name for the Ground Symbol that I have chosen - ALL Grounds in the schematic are electrically tied to the GND net name. This can be seen if you load it up in EAGLE and right click to get the properties of any GND connection - they are all tied to GND. If you find any more problems - fire away - it'll help me fix this right up. I'm just a hobbyist - no formal training, so this design MUST be SCRUTINIZED thoroughly in order to work out all of the bugs. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > First > > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > running a stock > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the > board > becomes detached while powered up. > > Second > > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > the dip switches and > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. > > Third > > What is the function of Q1? > > Fourth > > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > are tied at but just > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large > plane on both sides is > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise > immunity. Either use one > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. > > By the way I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have 23 yrs > experience in PC layout > and design of portable electronics. SO these questions do come from > someone that has > experience and questions about the design. > > james > On 3 Jul 2010 at 18:12, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> This is my latest project, designed just for you guys and the readers of >> CoCo3.com. I worked on this for about 9 hours when my internet was off. >> Hopefully it will be of some use to some of you. >> >> It is taking a lot longer to do the write up than it did to complete the >> design, but I have posted Part 1 (of 2) here: >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/this-is-part-1-of-2-of-an-8-slot-mpi-multi-pak-interface-design-for-my-friends-at-coco3-com-andor-the-maltedmedia-list-members-from-your-friend-johngimechip-com >> >> Let me know if you spot any potential problems. I'll get part two typed >> up and posted by tomorrow. >> >> Enjoy. Let me know if you find any errors in my design. I'll fix any that >> crop up. >> >> Your Friend - Lil' John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2981 - Release Date: 07/04/10 01:35:00 From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 11:40:20 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 01:40:20 +1000 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Steven Hirsch wrote: > Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this > out for the life of me. "Use the source, Luke!" What key are you looking for? Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 5 11:06:20 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:06:20 +0100 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff> <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look see: >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If >> you are running a stock >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E >> if the board >> becomes detached while powered up. >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different in the CoCo 3. Cheers. Phill. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 11:48:18 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:48:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C31FEC2.25591.8339DF@jdaggett.gate.net> On 4 Jul 2010 at 19:16, Gene Heskett wrote: > TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to > add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground > bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 volts > in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. For some reason some think that the more ground the better. That is not always the truth. In some layouts you get fingers of ground that lies between runners that tend to float or are tied to a ground at one end. These are more potentially bothersome than no ground fill at all. Putting ground in on a two layer board has to be done with some thoughts. I find it is always best to route power and ground first. Then signals. trying to move the power and ground as little as possible. james From farna at att.net Mon Jul 5 11:53:05 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:53:05 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Message-ID: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> I've just got one question: what the heck are you going to do with EIGHT slots? 3-4 should be plenty. The last slot board that was built and sold (by a third party) only had three for the most common items (under OS-9 anyway) -- floppy controller, hard drive controller, and RS-232 pak. I can see a fourth for miscellaneous items or a ROM pak -- maybe a wireless pak now, though I'd think that the wireless or a drivewire pak would replace a hard drive. But eight???? Can your design be easily pared down to four slots? Might be more practical for most. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 12:06:12 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: > Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this out >> for the life of me. > > "Use the source, Luke!" > > What key are you looking for? I believe it's "Insert"? I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes in there somewhere. Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone would know this off the top of their heads. Steve -- From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 12:40:22 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:40:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, Message-ID: <4C320AF6.15300.B2E6D4@jdaggett.gate.net> On 5 Jul 2010 at 9:05, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look > see: > > > First > > > > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you are > > running a stock > > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the > > board > > becomes detached while powered up. > > > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the main > board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, especially if it were > knocked sideways - zap. > Yes that is true. The MC6809 does not like to drive large capacitive loads. The additional runner lenghts and connectors add capacitance that degrades noise immunity and potentially damaging current transients during witching. Frankly I am not surprised that the original MPI has more problems. The duffers should have been on the inside of the Coco and not on the MPI side. > > Second > > > > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on > > the dip switches and > > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. > > > If I build it, I'll know what the DIP swicthes do. But again easily fixed - > jumper wires instead of the DIP switches if you don't want the DIP switches. > True. Still the E clock line should feed directly to the slot connectors from the buffer. No jumpers or any switches. > > Third > > > > What is the function of Q1? > > > It is supposed to tell the ATX power supply to switch on when the CoCo > Powers on - this was stated in the text. However, this is pretty lame - A > reed relay might have been better or just a switch to turn the darned thing > on. Yeah - the switch probably would be best. > Okay that makes sense. Did not realize that you are powering this off an ATX supply. > > Fourth > > > > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes that > > are tied at but just > > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large > > plane on both sides is > > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise > > immunity. Either use one > > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating fingers. > > > > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. > > I did use only one ground - the GND/1 is the Library Name for the Ground > Symbol that I have chosen - ALL Grounds in the schematic are electrically > tied to the GND net name. This can be seen if you load it up in EAGLE and > right click to get the properties of any GND connection - they are all tied > to GND. > They are? Why then highlighting the plane states GND and the runner from runner CN2 is GND1. That means you have two grounds and they are tied together at some other point on the board. At least I would not do it that way. If they are supposed to be one then make them one. Not two and then use some etch someplace on the board to tie them togeter unless you intend to do a star connection. If tha twas your intent the star point should be where the board make ground connections to the outide world. Not internal to the board. > If you find any more problems - fire away - it'll help me fix this right up. > I'm just a hobbyist - no formal training, so this design MUST be SCRUTINIZED > thoroughly in order to work out all of the bugs. -John > If i find time to do a more in depth review I may. Right now I have more important things to do. james From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 12:44:41 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:44:41 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer In-Reply-To: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> References: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> Message-ID: <8FE81C38-5899-4C90-865B-6009C2BA844A@gmail.com> Maybe it's just me, but, I could easily use more than 4 slots. Currently, I've got my MPI loaded with a serial pack, sd drive pack, hdb-dos pack and a floppy controller. I still have an O90, S/S cart, The Voice and various ROM packs. Granted, not all have to be used at once, but, I think a unit that offers more than 4 slots would come in handy considering the new pack based hardware that's been developed. Sent from Brian's iPhone On Jul 5, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Frank Swygert wrote: > I've just got one question: what the heck are you going to do with > EIGHT slots? 3-4 should be plenty. The last slot board that was > built and sold (by a third party) only had three for the most common > items (under OS-9 anyway) -- floppy controller, hard drive > controller, and RS-232 pak. I can see a fourth for miscellaneous > items or a ROM pak -- maybe a wireless pak now, though I'd think > that the wireless or a drivewire pak would replace a hard drive. But > eight???? Can your design be easily pared down to four slots? Might > be more practical for most. > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://www.amc-mag.com > (free download available!) > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From cwgordon at carolina.rr.com Mon Jul 5 13:19:59 2010 From: cwgordon at carolina.rr.com (CW Gordon) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:19:59 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco Message-ID: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but is it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 14:45:32 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: > >> Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this out >>> for the life of me. >> >> "Use the source, Luke!" >> >> What key are you looking for? > > I believe it's "Insert"? I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I were > there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes in > there somewhere. Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone would > know this off the top of their heads. Ack, sorry. It's "Clear", not Insert. Still cannot figure out where this might be mapped. -- From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 14:54:44 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C31FEC2.25591.8339DF@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Oh, I see what you're saying now - I just let eagle automatically do the ground planes - not because I'm lazy, oh wait, yeah - I am lazy :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 4 Jul 2010 at 19:16, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to >> add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground >> bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 >> volts >> in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. > > For some reason some think that the more ground the better. That is not > always the truth. > > In some layouts you get fingers of ground that lies between runners that > tend to float or are > tied to a ground at one end. These are more potentially bothersome than no > ground fill at all. > > Putting ground in on a two layer board has to be done with some thoughts. > I find it is always > best to route power and ground first. Then signals. trying to move the > power and ground as > little as possible. > > james > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 14:58:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:58:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer References: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> Message-ID: <08A525CBCFFF47B3869AAB52D5F9A5B9@hackersafa71ff> Sure - 4 slots are easy: use 4 rather than 1 of 8 decoders to route CTS* and SCS* and use a 4 to 1 mux rather than an 8 to 1 to route CART*. That's pretty much it to make a 4-slot interface. All four slots of my tandy unit are occupied and I don't even have a cloud-9 SCSI or IDE yet - so I figured if it can happen to me, perhaps others might have the same situation. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Swygert" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer > I've just got one question: what the heck are you going to do with EIGHT > slots? 3-4 should be plenty. The last slot board that was built and sold > (by a third party) only had three for the most common items (under OS-9 > anyway) -- floppy controller, hard drive controller, and RS-232 pak. I > can see a fourth for miscellaneous items or a ROM pak -- maybe a > wireless pak now, though I'd think that the wireless or a drivewire pak > would replace a hard drive. But eight???? Can your design be easily > pared down to four slots? Might be more practical for most. > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://www.amc-mag.com > (free download available!) > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 15:09:37 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 15:09:37 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer In-Reply-To: <08A525CBCFFF47B3869AAB52D5F9A5B9@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C31FFE1.3030101@att.net> <08A525CBCFFF47B3869AAB52D5F9A5B9@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <201007051509.37927.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday 05 July 2010, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >Sure - 4 slots are easy: use 4 rather than 1 of 8 decoders to route CTS* > and SCS* and use a 4 to 1 mux rather than an 8 to 1 to route CART*. > That's pretty much it to make a 4-slot interface. All four slots of my > tandy unit are occupied and I don't even have a cloud-9 SCSI or IDE yet - > so I figured if it can happen to me, perhaps others might have the same > situation. -John I suspect that more of us do need more slots than don't. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) He gave her a look that you could have poured on a waffle. From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 15:10:38 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:10:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C31069B.1875.707EC4@jdaggett.gate.net>, <201007041916.24101.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C31FEC2.25591.8339DF@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <3CAE8D2470AC477DAD11FBEC8EACBEB2@hackersafa71ff> Hah- you're right - I ACCIDENTALLY named the GND pins of the cart plug GND1 instead of GND when I entered their net name - a typo - so that is a serious mistake that you've located. Easily fixed though - I just have to rename that sucker to GND and reroute the board. Thanks James - John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 4 Jul 2010 at 19:16, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> TBT, the shacks own design re the ground plane sucks, big time. I had to >> add more bypassing and lots of 12 gage solid jumpers to get the ground >> bounce down to the no error levels in my mpi. I started with about 2 >> volts >> in the middle of it, referencing the clip ears on the coco's motherboard. > > For some reason some think that the more ground the better. That is not > always the truth. > > In some layouts you get fingers of ground that lies between runners that > tend to float or are > tied to a ground at one end. These are more potentially bothersome than no > ground fill at all. > > Putting ground in on a two layer board has to be done with some thoughts. > I find it is always > best to route power and ground first. Then signals. trying to move the > power and ground as > little as possible. > > james > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 14:46:14 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:46:14 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <4C322876.3255.1261FF5@jdaggett.gate.net> On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : > > > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look see: > >> > >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If > >> you are running a stock > >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E > >> if the board > >> becomes detached while powered up. > >> > > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. > > I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E > any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a > Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional > plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall > killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. > > Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different > in the CoCo 3. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS depletion loads are ot designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one output, all the current is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry determines the amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o TTL load (~2.4 mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port will no longer function properly. In any case you have been lucky. I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered with a LS245. So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled high through some resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. The resistors along with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus enough of the damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. Transients can cause latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. james From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 15:43:09 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <4C322876.3255.1261FF5@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: James, That is why I didn't put the 245 on the buffer board since the CoCo has one right at the cart connector - I figured it would be okay. I did however, once fry a CoCo3 when I was only 3 years old - I bumped the computer which wiggled the MPI in the slot and poof - nothing but a green screen. Dad fixed it in like 15 minutes - it fried the 74LS245 on the CoCo3 mobo - thankfully the CPU survived (dad didn't have a spare back then). I am going to redo this whole thing this evening from scratch and fix everything that you pointed out (I did accidentally create a GND1 signal when I net named the GND pin of the cartridge connector - it was a typo that ended up creating a secondary GND - I would have missed it had you not pointed it out). That is why I post this stuff - not just as gifts to the CoCo community, but so you guys can catch my screw-ups. Once I (and the rest of you guys) are satsified with the design, I may put it into a single CPLD. The only problem is that my poor eyesight keeps me from soldering surface mount easily - dad can do it though - he uses a hoof-tip and vertical drag soldering with excellent results. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : >> >> > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a >> > look see: >> >> >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If >> >> you are running a stock >> >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E >> >> if the board >> >> becomes detached while powered up. >> >> >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the >> > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, >> > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. >> >> I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E >> any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a >> Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional >> plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall >> killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. >> >> Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different >> in the CoCo 3. >> >> Cheers. >> >> Phill. >> > > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS > depletion loads are ot > designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one > output, all the current > is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry > determines the > amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o > TTL load (~2.4 > mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port > will no longer function > properly. In any case you have been lucky. > > I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered > with a LS245. > So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled > high through some > resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. > The resistors along > with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus > enough of the > damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. > Transients can cause > latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. > > james > > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 15:59:26 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:59:26 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <4C320AF6.15300.B2E6D4@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Understood - the things that I have read that you are working on promise to be Amazing Feats of Genius :-). -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 5 Jul 2010 at 9:05, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a look >> see: >> >> > First >> > >> > A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If you >> > are >> > running a stock >> > Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E if >> > the >> > board >> > becomes detached while powered up. >> > >> That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the main >> board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, especially if it >> were >> knocked sideways - zap. >> > > Yes that is true. The MC6809 does not like to drive large capacitive > loads. The additional > runner lenghts and connectors add capacitance that degrades noise immunity > and potentially > damaging current transients during witching. Frankly I am not surprised > that the original MPI > has more problems. The duffers should have been on the inside of the Coco > and not on the > MPI side. > > >> > Second >> > >> > why the dip switches on the Control and clock lines. A wrong setting on >> > the dip switches and >> > you have a nonfunctioning board that can lead to frustration. >> > >> If I build it, I'll know what the DIP swicthes do. But again easily >> fixed - >> jumper wires instead of the DIP switches if you don't want the DIP >> switches. >> > > True. Still the E clock line should feed directly to the slot connectors > from the buffer. No > jumpers or any switches. > >> > Third >> > >> > What is the function of Q1? >> > >> It is supposed to tell the ATX power supply to switch on when the CoCo >> Powers on - this was stated in the text. However, this is pretty lame - A >> reed relay might have been better or just a switch to turn the darned >> thing >> on. Yeah - the switch probably would be best. >> > > Okay that makes sense. Did not realize that you are powering this off an > ATX supply. > >> > Fourth >> > >> > Your ground plane on the top and bottom are basically floating planes >> > that >> > are tied at but just >> > a few spots. You have all your locic tied to GND1 and then this large >> > plane on both sides is >> > GND. You also have fingers that are floating that is bad for noise >> > immunity. Either use one >> > ground or tie them in a star pattern and eliminate the floating >> > fingers. >> > >> > just a few things I see wrong or bothersome. >> >> I did use only one ground - the GND/1 is the Library Name for the Ground >> Symbol that I have chosen - ALL Grounds in the schematic are electrically >> tied to the GND net name. This can be seen if you load it up in EAGLE and >> right click to get the properties of any GND connection - they are all >> tied >> to GND. >> > > They are? Why then highlighting the plane states GND and the runner from > runner CN2 is > GND1. That means you have two grounds and they are tied together at some > other point on > the board. > > At least I would not do it that way. If they are supposed to be one then > make them one. Not > two and then use some etch someplace on the board to tie them togeter > unless you intend to > do a star connection. If tha twas your intent the star point should be > where the board make > ground connections to the outide world. Not internal to the board. > >> If you find any more problems - fire away - it'll help me fix this right >> up. >> I'm just a hobbyist - no formal training, so this design MUST be >> SCRUTINIZED >> thoroughly in order to work out all of the bugs. -John >> > > If i find time to do a more in depth review I may. Right now I have more > important things to > do. > > james > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 16:11:12 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 15:11:12 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, , <20100705160620.880076d2s3mgwk08@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <4C322876.3255.1261FF5@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <21C860E9433A46EDAD27EE0A7F0EDA47@hackersafa71ff> James, I was just reading some of my replies to you - As it is impossible to transfer tones of voice, etc. via e-mail, I was afraid that my replies (at least one of them) to you might have sounded as if I was trying to be rude - This is NOT the case - I just wanted you to know that I value each and every one of your observations regarding this design and you have pointed out plenty of areas that I need to improve - I APPRECIATE THIS my Friend. Thank You - John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : >> >> > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a >> > look see: >> >> >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If >> >> you are running a stock >> >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E >> >> if the board >> >> becomes detached while powered up. >> >> >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the >> > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, >> > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. >> >> I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E >> any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a >> Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional >> plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall >> killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. >> >> Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different >> in the CoCo 3. >> >> Cheers. >> >> Phill. >> > > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS > depletion loads are ot > designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one > output, all the current > is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry > determines the > amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o > TTL load (~2.4 > mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port > will no longer function > properly. In any case you have been lucky. > > I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered > with a LS245. > So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled > high through some > resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. > The resistors along > with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus > enough of the > damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. > Transients can cause > latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. > > james > > > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Mon Jul 5 16:32:34 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:32:34 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends In-Reply-To: <21C860E9433A46EDAD27EE0A7F0EDA47@hackersafa71ff> References: <42A27B90FEE3468D96C5EAD79CCED6A2@hackersafa71ff>, <21C860E9433A46EDAD27EE0A7F0EDA47@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C324162.30491.1877AEE@jdaggett.gate.net> No problem I made suggestions that I thought you might consider. Layout is an art more so than just a science. While there is science involved, thae art portion is gained from years of experience. Knowing what works and what does not comes from doing more than learning. james On 5 Jul 2010 at 15:11, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > James, > I was just reading some of my replies to you - As it is impossible to > transfer tones of voice, etc. via e-mail, I was afraid that my replies (at > least one of them) to you might have sounded as if I was trying to be > rude - This is NOT the case - I just wanted you to know that I value each > and every one of your observations regarding this design and you have > pointed out plenty of areas that I need to improve - I APPRECIATE THIS my > Friend. Thank You - John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 1:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Friends > > > > On 5 Jul 2010 at 16:06, afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: > > > >> Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : > >> > >> > Had to have a fourth of July Holiday, so now I'm back. Let's have a > >> > look see: > >> >> > >> >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. If > >> >> you are running a stock > >> >> Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging the MC6809E and the HD6309E > >> >> if the board > >> >> becomes detached while powered up. > >> >> > >> > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > >> > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > >> > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. > >> > >> I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E > >> any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a > >> Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional > >> plugging/unplugging things with the power on :( :( I don't recall > >> killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. > >> > >> Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different > >> in the CoCo 3. > >> > >> Cheers. > >> > >> Phill. > >> > > > > A lot depends on the load that is being plugged in or unpluged. NMOS > > depletion loads are ot > > designed for hot swapping. So are CMOS outputs. When at a logic one > > output, all the current > > is passing through a NMOS diode that has rather small geometry. Geometry > > determines the > > amount of current that can pass throug the diode. Drawing much more than o > > TTL load (~2.4 > > mA) is potentially dangerous. Once that diode load burns out, the port > > will no longer function > > properly. In any case you have been lucky. > > > > I went back and rechecked the Coco3 schematic and the databus is buffered > > with a LS245. > > So that concern is not as critical. The address bus is not. It is pulled > > high through some > > resistors that the COco1/2 fail to use. This does help some in transients. > > The resistors along > > with the internal NMOS depletion load act like a current divider. Thus > > enough of the > > damaging current could pass throough the resistors instead of the IC. > > Transients can cause > > latent defects that build up over time to induce a permanent failure. > > > > james > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From farna at att.net Mon Jul 5 16:53:33 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:53:33 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Message-ID: <4C32464D.1030807@att.net> The main problem is with the early cartridges. Later ones have the power land slightly shorter than the other. When the cartridge isn't inserted or detached straight out and all the lands are the same length the power land can short over to the adjacent lands, sending +5V over a line that wasn't meant for it -- or +12V in the case of the CoCo1 and possibly early Dragon. Look at your carts real good and see if one land isn't shorter than the others. ------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:06:20 +0100 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Quoting "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" : >> A huge mistake in not buffering the data bus on the main board. >> If you are running a stock Coco3, you do run the risk of damaging >> the MC6809E and the HD6309E if the board becomes detached while >> powered up. > That's easy enough to fix. However, even with the databuffer on the > main board, detaching while powered up could cause damage, > especially if it were knocked sideways - zap. I keep hearing this over and over again, but have not found the 6809E any more suceptable to damage in this way compared to say a 6502 or a Z80, and believe me I've done enough (un)intentional plugging/unplugging things with the power on. I don't recall killing a 6809 yet.....perhaps I have been lucky. Mind this is in a CoCo 1/2 or a Dragon 32/64, so it may be different in the CoCo 3. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From farna at att.net Mon Jul 5 16:59:10 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:59:10 -0400 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer Message-ID: <4C32479E.7020906@att.net> Well, I see your point. I know a lot of people do have a lot of things tied to their system. In your case I'd pull the old HDB-DOS pack out and just use the SD drive pack and a 2GB card. Maybe a different card for OS-9 and DECB. But I'm not real familiar with the SD pack -- can it be equipped with a ROM or load something like HDB-DOS and be used with DECB? ------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:44:41 -0400 From: Brian Maybe it's just me, but, I could easily use more than 4 slots. Currently, I've got my MPI loaded with a serial pack, sd drive pack, hdb-dos pack and a floppy controller. I still have an O90, S/S cart, The Voice and various ROM packs. Granted, not all have to be used at once, but, I think a unit that offers more than 4 slots would come in handy considering the new pack based hardware that's been developed. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 18:12:52 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:12:52 -0500 Subject: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer References: <4C32479E.7020906@att.net> Message-ID: <7445636F80504A37930D1ECFF17E3491@hackersafa71ff> Frank, In my case, I have FDC, ORCH90, Speech/Sound and B&B XT-RTC, so I'm all out of slots :-) One thing that does concern me: If 8 cartridges are present in the expansion bus, they may overload the buffers in the MPI (8 carts may exceed fanout capacity) - definitely something I need to look into. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Swygert" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] An 8-Slot Multi-Pak Design for my Color Computer > Well, I see your point. I know a lot of people do have a lot of things > tied to their system. In your case I'd pull the old HDB-DOS pack out and > just use the SD drive pack and a 2GB card. Maybe a different card for OS-9 > and DECB. But I'm not real familiar with the SD pack -- can it be equipped > with a ROM or load something like HDB-DOS and be used with DECB? > > ------------ > Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:44:41 -0400 > From: Brian > > Maybe it's just me, but, I could easily use more than 4 slots. > Currently, I've got my MPI loaded with a serial pack, sd drive pack, > hdb-dos pack and a floppy controller. > > I still have an O90, S/S cart, The Voice and various ROM packs. > Granted, not all have to be used at once, but, I think a unit that > offers more than 4 slots would come in handy considering the new pack > based hardware that's been developed. > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://www.amc-mag.com > (free download available!) > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 01:36:00 From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 18:13:52 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:13:52 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >> >>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>> out for the life of me. >>> >>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>> >>> What key are you looking for? >> >> I believe it's "Insert"? ?I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes >> in there somewhere. ?Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >> would know this off the top of their heads. > > Ack, sorry. ?It's "Clear", not Insert. ?Still cannot figure out where this > might be mapped. > Tab works for me. > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 18:34:21 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:34:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! Message-ID: I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 19:05:38 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:05:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? Message-ID: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> I am looking at a complete redesign of the 8-Slot MPI using a small CPLD. This would allow a more cost effective version to be designed and once I get a good board layout, any changes would be done in code. It doesn't have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. The use of a CPLD would allow me to code a separate set of buffers for each slot (and the MPI design could technically be expanded to 16 slots - but that's just OVERKILL.) - this would alleviate my concerns over fan out as well. I would like to stick with XILINX since they provide free design tools, but if other companies offer free design tools, I'd be willing to use them too - right now I'm a borderline "broke" dude - this economy is the pits (but I'm not allowed to work just yet anyway - hopefully soon Mr. Dr. will sign off on my going back to work. - once that happens my design time will evaporate, so toss me all the ideas you guys can while I have the time to complete them.) Thanks for everything my friends. I have got to finish the PIA Pak that one of you requested - I forget who it was but I'll get it done after I upload the PLD code for the current work in progress MPI. Speaking of the PIA Pak, I am designing it so the PIA's can be mapped at either $FF1x/$FF3x (only useful with a CoCo 3, but won't normally function in an MPI - I have developed a PAL for the 26-3024 MPI that opens up FF1x/3x for use on a CoCo 3), and can also be mapped to the $FF4x area. I listen to all of your requests and do my best to provide the designs that you ask for. You guys give me a reason to keep on keeping on... I have worked out a 512K SIMM upgrade that can use any 30-Pin SIMM's, not just the 8/9 chip kind. I still need to test it. It should also work with 72-Pin SIMM's though it will waste most of their capacity. What I have done (and a lot of this is based on questions that I asked Mr. Paul Barton - his replies helped out a lot) is take in CAS*,RAS*,HSYNC*,VSYNC* and E into a small PLD. Using these signals, it is possible to derive signals to determine when the CoCo is accessing the memory for Video via the GIME, accessing the memory for CPU via the GIME, or when No Memory Access is taking place or a refresh is being done. This is so much simpler than the way DISTO did it (Tony used a 4-bit counter in Sync with the E clock to synthesize these signals, but Paul helped me (read that: told me) how to derive these signals quite naturally from the sync's, e and ras/cas.) I have allowed a DAT6 & DAT7 input into the PLD and have included multiplexing of that into z9, so this could be used as a 2-meg memory board if you built up Tony's DAT board. What the PLD does (it's just a plain old cheap 16V8) is: During any NON-CPU or NON-VIDEO cycle (and only during HSYNC or VSYNC times) - swap's CAS for RAS at the SIMMS and truncates CAS so that it terminates simultaneously with RAS forcing a CBRefresh using the SIMM's internal counters. During CPU or VIDEO cycles, everything works as normal. In addition to forcing refresh during an HSYNC (the time the GIME normally uses to do refresh), the PLD also uses VSYNC time for refresh. I hope to get this done and out there soon for all you wonderful CoCoists. I've decided to go ahead and do the 512Meg upgrade too thanks to Paul teaching all about refresh :-) I'll extend the MMU bits to 16-bits but this will be done in such a way as to allow Nitros9 to function as if it were still a 2-Meg CoCo. Give me more suggestions - keep me busy working guys - some of my designs will fail, some will work, but I shall endeavor to persevere. Thanks Guys/Ladies - John From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 19:42:01 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >>> >>>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>> >>>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>>> out for the life of me. >>>> >>>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>>> >>>> What key are you looking for? >>> >>> I believe it's "Insert"? ?I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >>> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break codes >>> in there somewhere. ?Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >>> would know this off the top of their heads. >> >> Ack, sorry. ?It's "Clear", not Insert. ?Still cannot figure out where this >> might be mapped. >> > > Tab works for me. Thanks! It works fine. However, what does one do if using an editor or other application that requires the tab character? Steve -- From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 19:45:07 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:45:07 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>>>> out for the life of me. >>>>> >>>>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>>>> >>>>> What key are you looking for? >>>> >>>> I believe it's "Insert"? ?I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >>>> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break >>>> codes >>>> in there somewhere. ?Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >>>> would know this off the top of their heads. >>> >>> Ack, sorry. ?It's "Clear", not Insert. ?Still cannot figure out where >>> this >>> might be mapped. >>> >> >> Tab works for me. > > Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or > other application that requires the tab character? > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? > Steve > > > > -- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 5 19:47:02 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:47:02 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? In-Reply-To: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C326EF6.3010602@iinet.net.au> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > It doesn't > have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power > supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. Altera MAX3000 will do the trick. Quartus design tool is free (and way superior to Xilinx). Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 19:50:31 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:50:31 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: >>How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? The RIGHT ARROW produces ASCII Code 09 which is HT (horizontal tab) on a CoCo - is this what you were asking about? I haven't yet read all of this thread so I may be wrong... John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Wolfe" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark McDougall wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Need to change virtual terminals under NitrOS9 and cannot figure this >>>>>> out for the life of me. >>>>> >>>>> "Use the source, Luke!" >>>>> >>>>> What key are you looking for? >>>> >>>> I believe it's "Insert"? I'm not well-versed in Verilog, and even if I >>>> were there's a translation from IBM PC keyboard serial I/O make/break >>>> codes >>>> in there somewhere. Fair amount of indirection, so I was hoping someone >>>> would know this off the top of their heads. >>> >>> Ack, sorry. It's "Clear", not Insert. Still cannot figure out where >>> this >>> might be mapped. >>> >> >> Tab works for me. > > Thanks! It works fine. However, what does one do if using an editor or > other application that requires the tab character? > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? > Steve > > > > -- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 19:51:02 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:51:02 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> <4C326EF6.3010602@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <3AE4A578254B434B8B1496FB0EFD17F6@hackersafa71ff> Excellent - Thank You! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark McDougall" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? > Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> It doesn't >> have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power >> supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. > > Altera MAX3000 will do the trick. Quartus design tool is free (and way > superior to Xilinx). > > Regards, > > -- > | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it > | | with less resistance!" > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From lost at l-w.ca Mon Jul 5 20:29:04 2010 From: lost at l-w.ca (William Astle) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:29:04 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? In-Reply-To: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C3278D0.2050402@l-w.ca> Wow, you've been busy. I feel I should prefix this with a comment that I am not an expert at electronics at all. I know enough to know that I know nothing. Take this as idle musing. For the memory board, you might consider having two modes. One which is "compatible" with the classic GIME using the same 6/8 bit registers and one which allows direct 16 bit writes to various registers. I'm not sure how that might be done but maybe it can be faked with some trickery on the bus. By that, I mean possibly tricking the hardware so that a 16 bit write at FFA0 only affects FFA0 but still manages to write all 16 bits? I think it's possible with some trickery as long as the GIME's decode of FFAx can be overridden by other logic. One would simply need to detect a write to FFA0/1, FFA1/2, ... FFAF/B0 on subsequent clock cycles and steal the write so that it doesn't mess up the other stuff. That's assuming I have the 6809's behaviour on a 16 bit write/read correct and that it does so in adjacent CPU cycles. Of course, it may not be possible to do what I'm thinking but wouldn't it be cool if it was? Default to 2MB compatible mode but have a process that switches to "16 bit" mode? Of course, this might require that the operating system swap the byte values so as not to confuse the GIME but I would think that a small price to pay. :) Come to think of it, that might be a useful trick to create 16 bit I/O ports on expansion boards in general on the CART port as long as the 16 bit port is not mapped to the last address a particular device uses. (Otherwise there would potential conflicts between devices that are not cooperating.) Now wouldn't that be bizarre? Faking out the system to write 16 bits at a single address without affecting the next address? For any "port" that is always accessed as 16 bits, I can see it might be useful given the scarecity of addresses in FFxx. On 10-07-05 05:05 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > I am looking at a complete redesign of the 8-Slot MPI using a small CPLD. This would allow a more cost effective version to be designed and once I get a good board layout, any changes would be done in code. It doesn't have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. The use of a CPLD would allow me to code a separate set of buffers for each slot (and the MPI design could technically be expanded to 16 slots - but that's just OVERKILL.) - this would alleviate my concerns over fan out as well. I would like to stick with XILINX since they provide free design tools, but if other companies offer free design tools, I'd be willing to use them too - right now I'm a borderline "broke" dude - this economy is the pits (but I'm not allowed to work just yet anyway - hopefully soon Mr. Dr. will sign off on my going back to work. - once that happens my design time will evaporate, so toss me all the ideas you gu > ys can while I have the time to complete them.) > > Thanks for everything my friends. I have got to finish the PIA Pak that one of you requested - I forget who it was but I'll get it done after I upload the PLD code for the current work in progress MPI. Speaking of the PIA Pak, I am designing it so the PIA's can be mapped at either $FF1x/$FF3x (only useful with a CoCo 3, but won't normally function in an MPI - I have developed a PAL for the 26-3024 MPI that opens up FF1x/3x for use on a CoCo 3), and can also be mapped to the $FF4x area. I listen to all of your requests and do my best to provide the designs that you ask for. You guys give me a reason to keep on keeping on... > > I have worked out a 512K SIMM upgrade that can use any 30-Pin SIMM's, not just the 8/9 chip kind. I still need to test it. It should also work with 72-Pin SIMM's though it will waste most of their capacity. What I have done (and a lot of this is based on questions that I asked Mr. Paul Barton - his replies helped out a lot) is take in CAS*,RAS*,HSYNC*,VSYNC* and E into a small PLD. Using these signals, it is possible to derive signals to determine when the CoCo is accessing the memory for Video via the GIME, accessing the memory for CPU via the GIME, or when No Memory Access is taking place or a refresh is being done. This is so much simpler than the way DISTO did it (Tony used a 4-bit counter in Sync with the E clock to synthesize these signals, but Paul helped me (read that: told me) how to derive these signals quite naturally from the sync's, e and ras/cas.) I have allowed a DAT6& DAT7 input into the PLD and have included multiplexing of that into z9, so this could be u se > d as a 2-meg memory board if you built up Tony's DAT board. What the PLD does (it's just a plain old cheap 16V8) is: During any NON-CPU or NON-VIDEO cycle (and only during HSYNC or VSYNC times) - swap's CAS for RAS at the SIMMS and truncates CAS so that it terminates simultaneously with RAS forcing a CBRefresh using the SIMM's internal counters. During CPU or VIDEO cycles, everything works as normal. In addition to forcing refresh during an HSYNC (the time the GIME normally uses to do refresh), the PLD also uses VSYNC time for refresh. I hope to get this done and out there soon for all you wonderful CoCoists. I've decided to go ahead and do the 512Meg upgrade too thanks to Paul teaching all about refresh :-) I'll extend the MMU bits to 16-bits but this will be done in such a way as to allow Nitros9 to function as if it were still a 2-Meg CoCo. Give me more suggestions - keep me busy working guys - some of my designs will fail, some will work, but I shall endeavor to perse ver > e. > > Thanks Guys/Ladies - John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 21:01:24 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:01:24 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Howto for Altera DE1? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5A66DD1EB345E28D6F14CD67144265@CROSSFIRE> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Lothan wrote: >>> >>> Wouldn't it be better to use a dynamically-sized array or perhaps >>> List than allocating the maximum theoretical disk size for >>> each image? If you use an array, you'll have to calculate the size of the >>> array prior to allocation. If you use a List, the array can >>> be >>> allocated on the fly as you add items to the list. >>> >> >> It's been a while... ?IIRC the reason I didn't use a dynamic sized >> type is that the CoCo can request or write to any sector at any time, >> and there didn't seem to be any elegant way to do sparse arrays... >> maybe a hash on sector number would work. ?There may be other reasons >> that I'm not remembering, of course a List would be much nicer so I'm >> hoping I had a good reason not to use it :) ?I will revisit this >> entire section at some point. > > Why not an array of references to (lazily) heap-allocated sector buffers? If > the sector is never accessed you only waste one pointer per image sector. > ?Worst case, you'll be slightly worse off than the current architecture. > yes, that would be the way to do it. in Java, things aren't quite as simple as that.. everything is a pointer yet nothing is a pointer :) there should be a way to do such a thing nonetheless. feel free to take a shot at it. > I understand the point in your earlier note about remote images, but > hopefully these would tend to be small and could continue to be read in > their entirety up front. > remote images will always have to be cached locally, whether in memory or a temp file, since we don't have random access. we would have to read the entire object each time a sector was requested otherwise :( I knew the current scheme wasn't great, but I guess no one has tried to mount such a large disk before, or they just didn't mention it to me. 5MB is the biggest image I use here. > Steve > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 21:04:50 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or >> other application that requires the tab character? >> > > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 adapter on my "real" CoCo). Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. Sorry to annoy you with my questions, I apologize and will desist. -- From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 21:08:24 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:08:24 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >>> Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or >>> other application that requires the tab character? >>> >> >> How do you type a tab on a coco? ?maybe the same way? > > I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 > adapter on my "real" CoCo). > > Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's > a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. ?Sorry to annoy you with > my questions, I apologize and will desist. > No annoyance here. I guess tone is hard to detect in text :) > > > > -- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 21:13:16 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 20:13:16 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? References: <02EB5E86B7D7457EB3617D957953DABF@hackersafa71ff> <4C3278D0.2050402@l-w.ca> Message-ID: <53B2508DD62945008CBB7E5E44908ABC@hackersafa71ff> William, That's a great idea. What I had intended was to use the $FF8x area. The MSB of the MMU registers would be located at $FF8x while the LSB's would be in the normal $FFAx range. On power up (but not reset), the $FF8x would automatically be reset to 00's to maintain compatibility with the normal DISTO method of 2-Meg's at power up. 16-bits would give us a total of 65,536 8K MMU blocks, totalling 536,870,912 bytes of memory for use by the CPU. That's 512Megs of memory that is completely accessible to the CPU. Now, the video circuit does not have a clue as to what to do with anything over 512K-bytes. Tony solved this by creating a video bank register at $FF9B. He used the lower two bits to select 1 of 4 512K Banks during a video cycle. So, during a CPU cycle - the DAT memory is muxed into Z9, but during a Video Cycle, the two Video Bank Bits are muxed into Z9. Tony is a GENIUS. So, what I would do would be to use all 8 bits of Tony's video bank register which would allow 256 different 512K banks any one of which could house the video. I believe this is completely attainable. Also, all 512Megs doesn't have to be RAM, you could stick in some FLASH/EEPROM or what have you. This will probably be the coolest of all of my projects and now that I have a recommendation of a cool CPLD to use, I can make the design even simpler. My dad gave me his vintage stuff to keep me busy while I'm unable to work. I figure all of you guys have supported me by buying my stuff over the last three years, so I am releasing everything that I design as fully open projects for all to use as they see fit. Thanks to you all :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Astle" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Can Someone Recommend A Small CPLD for the 8-Slot MPI? > Wow, you've been busy. > > I feel I should prefix this with a comment that I am not an expert at > electronics at all. I know enough to know that I know nothing. Take this > as idle musing. > > For the memory board, you might consider having two modes. One which is > "compatible" with the classic GIME using the same 6/8 bit registers and > one which allows direct 16 bit writes to various registers. I'm not sure > how that might be done but maybe it can be faked with some trickery on > the bus. By that, I mean possibly tricking the hardware so that a 16 bit > write at FFA0 only affects FFA0 but still manages to write all 16 bits? > I think it's possible with some trickery as long as the GIME's decode of > FFAx can be overridden by other logic. One would simply need to detect a > write to FFA0/1, FFA1/2, ... FFAF/B0 on subsequent clock cycles and > steal the write so that it doesn't mess up the other stuff. That's > assuming I have the 6809's behaviour on a 16 bit write/read correct and > that it does so in adjacent CPU cycles. > > Of course, it may not be possible to do what I'm thinking but wouldn't > it be cool if it was? Default to 2MB compatible mode but have a process > that switches to "16 bit" mode? Of course, this might require that the > operating system swap the byte values so as not to confuse the GIME but > I would think that a small price to pay. :) > > Come to think of it, that might be a useful trick to create 16 bit I/O > ports on expansion boards in general on the CART port as long as the 16 > bit port is not mapped to the last address a particular device uses. > (Otherwise there would potential conflicts between devices that are not > cooperating.) > > Now wouldn't that be bizarre? Faking out the system to write 16 bits at > a single address without affecting the next address? For any "port" that > is always accessed as 16 bits, I can see it might be useful given the > scarecity of addresses in FFxx. > > On 10-07-05 05:05 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> I am looking at a complete redesign of the 8-Slot MPI using a small CPLD. >> This would allow a more cost effective version to be designed and once I >> get a good board layout, any changes would be done in code. It doesn't >> have to be a 5V CPLD - since I am powering the device with an ATX power >> supply, a 3.3V CPLD with 5V Tolerant I/O would be perfect. The use of a >> CPLD would allow me to code a separate set of buffers for each slot (and >> the MPI design could technically be expanded to 16 slots - but that's >> just OVERKILL.) - this would alleviate my concerns over fan out as well. >> I would like to stick with XILINX since they provide free design tools, >> but if other companies offer free design tools, I'd be willing to use >> them too - right now I'm a borderline "broke" dude - this economy is the >> pits (but I'm not allowed to work just yet anyway - hopefully soon Mr. >> Dr. will sign off on my going back to work. - once that happens my design >> time will evaporate, so toss me all the ideas you > gu >> ys can while I have the time to complete them.) >> >> Thanks for everything my friends. I have got to finish the PIA Pak that >> one of you requested - I forget who it was but I'll get it done after I >> upload the PLD code for the current work in progress MPI. Speaking of the >> PIA Pak, I am designing it so the PIA's can be mapped at either >> $FF1x/$FF3x (only useful with a CoCo 3, but won't normally function in an >> MPI - I have developed a PAL for the 26-3024 MPI that opens up FF1x/3x >> for use on a CoCo 3), and can also be mapped to the $FF4x area. I listen >> to all of your requests and do my best to provide the designs that you >> ask for. You guys give me a reason to keep on keeping on... >> >> I have worked out a 512K SIMM upgrade that can use any 30-Pin SIMM's, not >> just the 8/9 chip kind. I still need to test it. It should also work with >> 72-Pin SIMM's though it will waste most of their capacity. What I have >> done (and a lot of this is based on questions that I asked Mr. Paul >> Barton - his replies helped out a lot) is take in CAS*,RAS*,HSYNC*,VSYNC* >> and E into a small PLD. Using these signals, it is possible to derive >> signals to determine when the CoCo is accessing the memory for Video via >> the GIME, accessing the memory for CPU via the GIME, or when No Memory >> Access is taking place or a refresh is being done. This is so much >> simpler than the way DISTO did it (Tony used a 4-bit counter in Sync with >> the E clock to synthesize these signals, but Paul helped me (read that: >> told me) how to derive these signals quite naturally from the sync's, e >> and ras/cas.) I have allowed a DAT6& DAT7 input into the PLD and have >> included multiplexing of that into z9, so this could be u > se >> d as a 2-meg memory board if you built up Tony's DAT board. What the >> PLD does (it's just a plain old cheap 16V8) is: During any NON-CPU or >> NON-VIDEO cycle (and only during HSYNC or VSYNC times) - swap's CAS for >> RAS at the SIMMS and truncates CAS so that it terminates simultaneously >> with RAS forcing a CBRefresh using the SIMM's internal counters. During >> CPU or VIDEO cycles, everything works as normal. In addition to forcing >> refresh during an HSYNC (the time the GIME normally uses to do refresh), >> the PLD also uses VSYNC time for refresh. I hope to get this done and out >> there soon for all you wonderful CoCoists. I've decided to go ahead and >> do the 512Meg upgrade too thanks to Paul teaching all about refresh :-) >> I'll extend the MMU bits to 16-bits but this will be done in such a way >> as to allow Nitros9 to function as if it were still a 2-Meg CoCo. Give me >> more suggestions - keep me busy working guys - some of my designs will >> fail, some will work, but I shall endeavor to perse > ver >> e. >> >> Thanks Guys/Ladies - John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 21:16:00 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 20:16:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: Steven, I thought this list was for people to ask questions and help each other. I enjoy reading questions and answers. If I were easily annoyed, I would never have joined the list :-) Keep asking your questions - there's going to be someone who'll answer them (usually). -john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Hirsch" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> Thanks! It works fine. However, what does one do if using an editor or >> other application that requires the tab character? >> > > How do you type a tab on a coco? maybe the same way? I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 adapter on my "real" CoCo). Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. Sorry to annoy you with my questions, I apologize and will desist. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2984 - Release Date: 07/05/10 13:36:00 From diegoba at adinet.com.uy Mon Jul 5 21:28:40 2010 From: diegoba at adinet.com.uy (Diego Barizo) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 22:28:40 -0300 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3286C8.4000602@adinet.com.uy> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > Yes, that is, like most of his, an amazing piece of software. Emulate a ZX81... I guess it should be doable. After all, the D.K. system has a Z80, and dedicated sound chips. A TRS-80 Mod I-II-III could be more interesting... Diego From sales at gimechip.com Mon Jul 5 21:39:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 20:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Message-ID: This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. -John P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. -Lil' J From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 00:11:49 2010 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:11:49 -0700 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! Message-ID: Message: 10 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:34:21 -0500 From: "Little John \(GIMEchip.com\)" Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Message-ID: < EC02D959D2DE46D3BE5A6A7957180455 at hackersafa71ff> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... Why not just use MAME? From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 00:30:59 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 00:30:59 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > -John > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > -Lil' J > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the maestro of solder. There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 00:38:58 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 00:38:58 -0400 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > I've been playing with the Donkey Kong from Sock - It is amazing. It did get me to thinking, though. I wonder if the CoCo 3 is powerful enough to emulate a ZX81? I bet Mr. SockMaster could pull it off. I don't know why anyone would want to emulate a ZX81 on the CoCo - really don't even know why it crossed my mind - Lil' John ... > I'm sure it could be done, but running at native speed is probably out of the question. A typical emulator requires a processor an order of magnitude more powerful than the system it's emulating to be real time. In the early days of computing, it was standard practice to emulate a CPU under development on an existing processor, this way software could be written at the same time the CPU was being designed. I believe Don Weiss mentioned at the cocofest that the 6809 was implemented on a PDP series mainframe before it existed in silicon. Sometimes I wish I was born 20 years earlier, those must have been exciting times. > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 03:16:40 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 02:16:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Altera MAX 3000A Message-ID: I am downloading and installing Quartus as per Mark M.'s suggestion. When I went and looked up the Altera MAX 3000 CPLD's, the cheapest one is $1.40. That one little chip can house the entire 8-Slot multi-pak design. I am going to go ahead and correct all of the design errors that James and the others have pointed out. Then I'm going to put it into a CPLD which will allow a much simpler PCB layout and a much cheaper production cost. You guys all rock - you just can't buy this kind of help in debugging a design - THANK YOU! Also, James - when I was searching previous posts and reading them, I noticed you mentioned coding a replacement GIME - how is that project going? How do you plan on distributing it? Just wondering - I had considered trying to isolate Gary's GIME code out of the CC3FPGA and try to make it work with a real 63C09 @ 5Mhz (I've read that the 63C09 can run reliably at 5Mhz). -John From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 6 04:50:14 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:50:14 +1000 Subject: [Coco] SockMaster Rocks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C32EE46.9030204@iinet.net.au> Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I'm sure it could be done, but running at native speed is probably out > of the question. A typical emulator requires a processor an order of > magnitude more powerful than the system it's emulating to be real > time. Second that. IIRC a TRS-80 emulator hand-coded in 68K assembler on the Amiga was only just fast enough to run at full speed... and even then there's a chance it required a faster copro?!? So, no chance on the Coco unfortunately. Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 07:14:06 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 07:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> >>>> Thanks! ?It works fine. ?However, what does one do if using an editor or >>>> other application that requires the tab character? >>>> >>> >>> How do you type a tab on a coco? ?maybe the same way? >> >> I haven't used an actual CoCo keyboard in quite some time (Cloud-9 PS2 >> adapter on my "real" CoCo). >> >> Also, given my interest in perhaps a half-dozen small classic computers it's >> a bit difficult sometimes to keep things straight. ?Sorry to annoy you with >> my questions, I apologize and will desist. >> > > No annoyance here. I guess tone is hard to detect in text :) Well, sometimes I _feel_ like I'm being a pain :-). I did try to research the keyboard mapping for 'Clear' and could not find anything. Gary's writeup for the Digilent board has a few sentences about key assignment under BASIC and remarks that OS-9 will be covered later. Unfortunately, I couldn't find "later". I cannot speak for others, but I personally would like the key mapping to be as close as possible to the PC standard. Perhaps something like Scroll Lock or Pause/Break would be a better candidate for 'Clear'. Then Tab could be, err, Tab? This may be a good excuse to get familiar with the Verilog when Gary decides to release it. For now, no big deal. Steve -- From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Tue Jul 6 08:26:30 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:26:30 +1000 Subject: [Coco] CoCo3FPGA keyboard mapping? In-Reply-To: References: <4C31FCE4.7070709@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4C3320F6.7080506@iinet.net.au> Steven Hirsch wrote: > Well, sometimes I _feel_ like I'm being a pain :-). For every question you ask, there are probably several others that will follow and have the same questions. At least this way the answers will be archived somewhere. And it may also give someone the impetus to write a HOWTO. So keep asking away! > I cannot speak for others, but I personally would like the key mapping to > be as close as possible to the PC standard. Perhaps something like > Scroll Lock or Pause/Break would be a better candidate for 'Clear'. Then > Tab could be, err, Tab? It's a double-edged sword. It does make for more natural typing when doing, for example, development. However, it's annoying when you can't play some games because the keys are in different locations. The absolute best solution is to have alternate mappings that can be switched back-and-forth on-the-fly. IIRC MESS has this ability. However, it's not always quite so simple or efficient to do it in HDL... :( Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From Gary.Becker at amd.com Tue Jul 6 09:54:05 2010 From: Gary.Becker at amd.com (Becker, Gary) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:54:05 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A7B8F2C4F4C7045BD659DB3DCAE91760D11EE4B@sausexmbp02.amd.com> The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. The numeric keypad would be nice also. Gary -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of coco-request at maltedmedia.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 11:12 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 Send Coco mailing list submissions to coco at maltedmedia.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coco-request at maltedmedia.com You can reach the person managing the list at coco-owner at maltedmedia.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coco digest..." From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 09:57:08 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:57:08 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4C333634.31740.3E519D@jdaggett.gate.net> The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to much solder. There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt toaster oven. The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will need adjusting. I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > -John > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > -Lil' J > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > maestro of solder. > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 11:51:40 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:51:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <4C333634.31740.3E519D@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> james, How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: jdaggett at gate.net To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to much solder. There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt toaster oven. The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will need adjusting. I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > wrote: > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > -John > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > -Lil' J > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > maestro of solder. > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 12:06:59 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:06:59 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering References: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity of some of these folks. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >> wrote: >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >> > -John >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are >> > amazing. >> > -Lil' J >> > >> >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >> maestro of solder. >> >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >> >> >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Tue Jul 6 12:21:31 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> References: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <1CFA7A3D-B038-41CD-9500-BC21C6EE0521@zaphod.tzo.com> I never thought this would be possible. I've had a fair amount of practice soldering standard DIPs and leaded components, and even some surface mount Rs and Cs, but I thought SMD chips had to be installed by machine due to the tight spacing. I'm still certain I'd have a lot of bridges. They make it look so easy! On Jul 6, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > >> james, >> >> How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? >> >> I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. >> >> Mark >> Cloud-9 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jdaggett at gate.net >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering >> >> The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to >> much solder. >> >> There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. >> >> One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. >> >> Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in >> the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt >> toaster oven. >> >> The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and >> a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at >> max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will >> need adjusting. >> >> I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. >> >> james >> >> On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >>> wrote: >>> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > beatiful nonetheless :-) >>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >>> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >>> > -John >>> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > amazing. >>> > -Lil' J >>> > >>> >>> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >>> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >>> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >>> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >>> maestro of solder. >>> >>> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >>> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >>> >>> >>> > -- >>> > Coco mailing list >>> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 12:33:43 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:33:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity of some of these folks. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >> wrote: >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >> > -John >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are >> > amazing. >> > -Lil' J >> > >> >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >> maestro of solder. >> >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >> >> >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 12:37:08 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:37:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering References: <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: I was initially going to use a BGA SRAM in the DE-1 Expansion Board, but when I researched it I found most people probably wouldn't be able to assemble the boards (including myself by the way) so I switched to a TSSOP, which with a giant magnifier, I might be able to solder. :-) -J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. > > As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. > > As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be > able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. > > Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) > > I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the > ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > >> james, >> >> How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to >> the pads using a hotplate? >> >> I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. >> >> Mark >> Cloud-9 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jdaggett at gate.net >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering >> >> The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on >> the board and not to >> much solder. >> >> There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. >> >> One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good >> alternative. >> >> Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone >> controllers range in >> the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in >> a 1500 watt >> toaster oven. >> >> The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on >> the >> top and bottom and >> a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven >> method >> needs to work at >> max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different >> preheat times will >> need adjusting. >> >> I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. >> >> james >> >> On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) >>> wrote: >>> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored >>> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are >>> > beatiful nonetheless :-) >>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk >>> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. >>> > -John >>> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are >>> > amazing. >>> > -Lil' J >>> > >>> >>> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have >>> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce >>> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital >>> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the >>> maestro of solder. >>> >>> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of >>> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. >>> >>> >>> > -- >>> > Coco mailing list >>> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 16:11:08 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:11:08 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <4C333634.31740.3E519D@jdaggett.gate.net>, <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C338DDC.11023.194B837@jdaggett.gate.net> Lots of flux and fiduciles on the board for the corners. I used to solder 80 pin BGA packages with 30 mil balls. The pitch was 0.1 inch if I remember correctly Seat the part and then place on a hot hotplate. As the solder melts, the package drops and about 30 seconds later slide the board off the hotplate. Did this to many a MC68HC11PH8 in an 80 pin BGA package. Not one failed in an accellerate life test. All survived the temperature cycling of -40degrees C to +85 degrees C. The parts went from one chamber to the other in less than 30 secondes. I found most of the hot air reworks do as much heating if not more than the hotplate. If the air pressure is set to high then the chance of disturbing other parts close by increases. With the hotplate if you do make a mistake it is usually the whole board needs repair. So care is needed in both assembly process. It also helped to have some 3 inch square ceraminc plates that were about 60 mils thick. I placed one on the hotplate and used another to receive the board as I slid it onto the cold ceramic plate. I still have about 15 or so of the alumina ceramic plates. Make nice wetstones to sharpen knife baldes also. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 15:51, Mark Marlette wrote: > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > > wrote: > > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > > -John > > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > > -Lil' J > > > > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > > maestro of solder. > > > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 16:25:03 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:25:03 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff>, <1089869681.42233.1278434023984.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C33911F.28496.1A17785@jdaggett.gate.net> Mark I agree the newer fine pitch BGAs with 0.8 mm pitch are really out of the range of hobbyists. In fact there is not hardly any PCB fab house that will does that pitch and pin count even with protoboards. For 584 pin FBGA package you are going to need at least 8 layers to get all the pins wired. You are talking 12 mil pads and 3 to 5 mil runners along with 5 mil vias. The smallest via tha tI have found that a shop will do for hobbyist is aobut 8 mil vias. That is only on 4 layer boards. ALso no blind vias. I hate blind vias. They are the creation of the devi. The 80 pin 100 mil pitch (2.54 mm) I could route that on a two layer board. Man that was fun. It took me almost a day to get just that part routed out from under the BGA. I dare not used an autorouter for that either. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 16:33, Mark Marlette wrote: > > Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. > > As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. > > As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. > > Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) > > I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > james, > > > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > > the pads using a hotplate? > > > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > > > Mark > > Cloud-9 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jdaggett at gate.net > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > > the board and not to > > much solder. > > > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > > alternative. > > > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > > controllers range in > > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > > a 1500 watt > > toaster oven. > > > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > > top and bottom and > > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > > needs to work at > > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > > preheat times will > > need adjusting. > > > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > > > james > > > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > >> wrote: > >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > >> > -John > >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > >> > amazing. > >> > -Lil' J > >> > > >> > >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > >> maestro of solder. > >> > >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> > Coco mailing list > >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Coco mailing list > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 16:31:33 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:31:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <4C338DDC.11023.194B837@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <1699170818.46362.1278448293429.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> .1" easier to eyeball it in. Not many of those in new designs these days. Legacy, yes. We had in the budget to buy an xray, but then the cutbacks....Can't go there. :) Nice to have color xray with software analysis. Was sweet. The Air-Vac system is very nice, works very well. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: jdaggett at gate.net To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:11:08 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Lots of flux and fiduciles on the board for the corners. I used to solder 80 pin BGA packages with 30 mil balls. The pitch was 0.1 inch if I remember correctly Seat the part and then place on a hot hotplate. As the solder melts, the package drops and about 30 seconds later slide the board off the hotplate. Did this to many a MC68HC11PH8 in an 80 pin BGA package. Not one failed in an accellerate life test. All survived the temperature cycling of -40degrees C to +85 degrees C. The parts went from one chamber to the other in less than 30 secondes. I found most of the hot air reworks do as much heating if not more than the hotplate. If the air pressure is set to high then the chance of disturbing other parts close by increases. With the hotplate if you do make a mistake it is usually the whole board needs repair. So care is needed in both assembly process. It also helped to have some 3 inch square ceraminc plates that were about 60 mils thick. I placed one on the hotplate and used another to receive the board as I slid it onto the cold ceramic plate. I still have about 15 or so of the alumina ceramic plates. Make nice wetstones to sharpen knife baldes also. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 15:51, Mark Marlette wrote: > james, > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to the pads using a hotplate? > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jdaggett at gate.net > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on the board and not to > much solder. > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good alternative. > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone controllers range in > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in a 1500 watt > toaster oven. > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the top and bottom and > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method needs to work at > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different preheat times will > need adjusting. > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > james > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > > wrote: > > > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are beatiful nonetheless :-) > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > > > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > > > -John > > > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are amazing. > > > -Lil' J > > > > > > > That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > > been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > > interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > > modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > > maestro of solder. > > > > There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > > things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > > > > > > > -- > > > Coco mailing list > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 16:34:30 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:34:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <4C33911F.28496.1A17785@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <287203396.46415.1278448470011.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> james, Even Specctra? I know EXACTLY what you are saying about the blinds. Our layout guy loves them, they should be illegal! Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: jdaggett at gate.net To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:25:03 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering Mark I agree the newer fine pitch BGAs with 0.8 mm pitch are really out of the range of hobbyists. In fact there is not hardly any PCB fab house that will does that pitch and pin count even with protoboards. For 584 pin FBGA package you are going to need at least 8 layers to get all the pins wired. You are talking 12 mil pads and 3 to 5 mil runners along with 5 mil vias. The smallest via tha tI have found that a shop will do for hobbyist is aobut 8 mil vias. That is only on 4 layer boards. ALso no blind vias. I hate blind vias. They are the creation of the devi. The 80 pin 100 mil pitch (2.54 mm) I could route that on a two layer board. Man that was fun. It took me almost a day to get just that part routed out from under the BGA. I dare not used an autorouter for that either. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 16:33, Mark Marlette wrote: > > Trust me, 5 mil bumps are not easy to deal with. > > As I recall, the DE1's FPGA has 584 pins on it, BGA form, about 1" sq. > > As it is easy to put down a BGA, it is harder to do it correctly and be able to verify your workmanship which, IMHO requires xray. > > Not to many hobbyist are going to drop $100k for Xray... :) > > I avoid BGA packaging as much as I can. > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:06:59 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > james, > > > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > > the pads using a hotplate? > > > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > > > Mark > > Cloud-9 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jdaggett at gate.net > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > > the board and not to > > much solder. > > > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > > alternative. > > > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > > controllers range in > > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > > a 1500 watt > > toaster oven. > > > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > > top and bottom and > > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > > needs to work at > > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > > preheat times will > > need adjusting. > > > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > > > james > > > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > >> wrote: > >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > >> > -John > >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > >> > amazing. > >> > -Lil' J > >> > > >> > >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > >> maestro of solder. > >> > >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> > Coco mailing list > >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Coco mailing list > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From jdaggett at gate.net Tue Jul 6 16:54:48 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:54:48 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering In-Reply-To: <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> References: <1198370284.41436.1278431500886.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net>, <7B12BA74C73B42E58B1B18ACEF73C643@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C339818.4094.1BCB2A6@jdaggett.gate.net> Not really There are several different kinds of BGA packages. When I retired the technology had only gotten to 20 mil balls and 50 mill pitch. Today they are pushing finer arrays. to give you an idea of a fine pitch BGA consider the FG484 package that Xilinx uses. It is a 0.8 mm pitch with the balls being 0.6 mm is diameter. The largest runner you can pas between the pads is 6 mils(~0.23mm). You need tohave via hole that is no more than 8 mils in diameter more like 5 or 6 mils. These requirements whether hobbyist or commercial are not cheap. When you approach 3 and 4 mil runners you move beyond the standard process of etching into the realm of fine line processing. It is very easy to overetch 4 mil runners and then you are left with a runner that has all kinds of issues. For the hobbyist, fine pitch QFPs (0.5 mm pitch) is small enough. You may not achieve the density or the pin count that the FBGA and UFBGAs provide. If you need that small, there is more than likely a commercial solution to meet a need. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 11:06, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Uh Oh - I've started a debate :-) > J/K - I've often wondered how a hobbyist could work with BGA and then I > decided this morning to look at youtube. Man there are all kinds of videos > on there - some of the techniques by hobbyists such as myself don't look > like they could possibly work, and yet they do. I am amazed at the ingenuity > of some of these folks. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Marlette" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > james, > > > > How does one manually locate/align(x/y/z/theta,down force) of a BGA on to > > the pads using a hotplate? > > > > I use our Air-Vac DRS25 unit and I am spoiled with it. > > > > Mark > > Cloud-9 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jdaggett at gate.net > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:57:08 -0000 (UTC) > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Surface Mount Soldering > > > > The key to using a soldering iron for SMT work is having enough flux on > > the board and not to > > much solder. > > > > There are other alternatives to the soldering iron approach. > > > > One is a hot plate. A 4in square hotplate by Thermalake is very good > > alternative. > > > > Second is the few toaster oven reflow boards out there. The stand alone > > controllers range in > > the $60 to $100 and then add what ever your local Walmart or Taget has in > > a 1500 watt > > toaster oven. > > > > The lone issue with the toaster oven is that it should have burners on the > > top and bottom and > > a circulating fan inside to reduce hot zones. ALso the toaster oven method > > needs to work at > > max temperature to melt the newer lead free solders. Also the different > > preheat times will > > need adjusting. > > > > I still like the hotplate for small boards. especially with BGA packages. > > > > james > > > > On 6 Jul 2010 at 0:30, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) > >> wrote: > >> > This guy has some amazing videos on SMT soldering - I never get bored > >> > just watching these. Some have sound, some are silent, but they are > >> > beatiful nonetheless :-) > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQXhny3R7lk > >> > This is the vertical drag technique that my dad uses too. > >> > -John > >> > P.S. check out all of this guys videos if you have time. They are > >> > amazing. > >> > -Lil' J > >> > > >> > >> That is interesting to watch. I recently got a ham license and have > >> been soldering together some very simple circuits to reduce > >> interference when connecting a radio to an PC to decode digital > >> modes.. anyway, boy am I bad at soldering! That guy is like the > >> maestro of solder. > >> > >> There are a lot of good "how to" videos on youtube for all kinds of > >> things, if you're in to do-it-yourself, its a great resource. > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> > Coco mailing list > >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Coco mailing list > >> Coco at maltedmedia.com > >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Tue Jul 6 17:37:18 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:37:18 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade Message-ID: I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me to kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If you add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, plus locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He mailed it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install and it worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced wire, etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think of the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself for not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. -John From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 17:47:09 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <2A7B8F2C4F4C7045BD659DB3DCAE91760D11EE4B@sausexmbp02.amd.com> References: <2A7B8F2C4F4C7045BD659DB3DCAE91760D11EE4B@sausexmbp02.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Becker, Gary wrote: > The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I > did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key > to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for > the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with > is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard > definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. > The numeric keypad would be nice also. Gary, I'd be delighted to pursue the keyboard issues when you make the verilog sources available. Might be a good "starter" project since (hopefully) it's a well-bounded area of the hardware description. Steve -- From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 17:49:26 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:49:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> John, Thanks! Regards, Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:37:18 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me to kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If you add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, plus locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He mailed it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install and it worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced wire, etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think of the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself for not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. -John -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 6 18:05:00 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:05:00 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Cartridge cases Message-ID: <4C33A88C.3050800@aurigae.demon.co.uk> I'll try again, this time to the list address rather than coco-bounces....... Hi all, Does anyone know of a suitable case for home made CoCo/Dragon carts. Ideally I'd be looking for something Eurocard sized so about the same size as the FD-500 or the Speach/Sound carts. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 18:10:58 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:10:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. Holy Hanna! This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. Regards, Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Hirsch To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:47:09 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Becker, Gary wrote: > The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I > did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key > to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for > the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with > is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard > definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. > The numeric keypad would be nice also. Gary, I'd be delighted to pursue the keyboard issues when you make the verilog sources available. Might be a good "starter" project since (hopefully) it's a well-bounded area of the hardware description. Steve -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Tue Jul 6 18:12:54 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:12:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cartridge cases In-Reply-To: <4C33A88C.3050800@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <1286985167.48060.1278454374382.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Phill, I have over 300 of the full sized carts. Contact me privately if you are interested. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Phill Harvey-Smith To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:05:00 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cartridge cases I'll try again, this time to the list address rather than coco-bounces....... Hi all, Does anyone know of a suitable case for home made CoCo/Dragon carts. Ideally I'd be looking for something Eurocard sized so about the same size as the FD-500 or the Speach/Sound carts. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From member at linkedin.com Tue Jul 6 20:27:17 2010 From: member at linkedin.com (James Dessart via LinkedIn) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <176443969.9579.1278462437963.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> LinkedIn ------------James Dessart requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Boisy, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - James Accept invitation from James Dessart http://www.linkedin.com/e/-hkoy8c-gbbfiyiw-72/siHtd7VDbdKpjPxpsEMwCY4WxxcP5kRZ/blk/I2175085666_2/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYOnPoSdzkUc3kTcj99bPx5cnBAgRBybPkMcjAOcPgQd34LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from James Dessart http://www.linkedin.com/e/-hkoy8c-gbbfiyiw-72/siHtd7VDbdKpjPxpsEMwCY4WxxcP5kRZ/blk/I2175085666_2/39vdzoSdjwMdjsNcAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW that LinkedIn can find the answers to your most difficult questions? Post those vexing questions on LinkedIn Answers to tap into the knowledge of the world's foremost business experts: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-hkoy8c-gbbfiyiw-72/ask/inv-23/ ------ (c) 2010, LinkedIn Corporation From skwirl42 at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 20:46:31 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:46:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <176443969.9579.1278462437963.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> References: <176443969.9579.1278462437963.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> Message-ID: Oops, sorry about that guys. I guess I didn't notice the email address it was going to? -- James Dessart From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 20:47:51 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark Marlette wrote: > > As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. > > At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his > .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. > Holy Hanna! > > This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. No doubt of that. But, the only way to learn is to try. > There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As > some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. I've had a modicum of training in computer architecture, digital design and synthesis, but most of it was years ago when I went back for my (belated) CS degree and minored in EE. Those creaks you hear are my brain muscles... Nice thing is that I work elbow to elbow with folks who live and breathe this stuff. > Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop > compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work > assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, > 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. Home box is a 2.4GHz Core2 Quad with 8GB of memory. We'll have to see how painful it turns out to be. > Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. Hats off to all the hardware gurus. As they say "..oh, you have a CS degree? That's nice, just don't touch anything.". Steve p.s. - What's 'Pace'? -- From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com Tue Jul 6 21:37:08 2010 From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:37:08 -0500 Subject: [Coco] TRS-80 X-PAD Message-ID: <20100706.203711.4476.1.johnchasteen.2@juno.com> Hello Coco Friends While straighting things in my computer room I found an Owner's manual "TRS-80 X-PAD Model GT-116". Since I gave the unit to be auctioned at our last coco Fest in Elgin, IL. I will be willing to mail the manual if you e-mail me. John ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c33daa4cdb07305fcm02duc From gene.heskett at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 00:03:57 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 00:03:57 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <201007070003.57204.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday 06 July 2010, Steven Hirsch wrote: [...] > >p.s. - What's 'Pace'? > Pace, is probably the best single combo for rework soldering station there is, built in vacuum pump/hot air blower and temp regulated iron. Top models are in the kilobuck area. I could never afford one of those though, so I get by with an XYTronic for about $140, but its just a good iron, no vacuum or hot air stuff. For surface mount, I use a GC tweezer iron, plugged into a powerstat and running on 55 to 60 volts so it doesn't overheat when I have 70 caps to replace on each of 13 to 18 boards in a dvc-pro machine. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The Almighty in His infinite wisdom did not see fit to create Frenchmen in the image of Englishmen. -- Winston Churchill, 1942 From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Wed Jul 7 00:09:20 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 00:09:20 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <1972C22A-1F8F-4691-B076-B24FA1E72681@zaphod.tzo.com> On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark Marlette wrote: >> Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. > > Hats off to all the hardware gurus. As they say "..oh, you have a CS degree? That's nice, just don't touch anything.". > > Steve > > > p.s. - What's 'Pace'? I think it's in reference to http://pacedev.net From tlindner at macmess.org Wed Jul 7 02:05:02 2010 From: tlindner at macmess.org (tim lindner) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:05:02 -0700 Subject: [Coco] The Rainbow, Volume 2, Number 7, January 1983 Message-ID: <1jl8ctl.11bs5yvednppqM%tlindner@macmess.org> Thanks to the contributions of many people another issue has been completed in the CoCoMag project. For those unfamiliar, The CoComag project digitizes Color Computer magazines. The goal is to have a full text searchable version of all articles, program listings, advertisments and filler. The project is broken into small tasks taking under a minute each to complete. Come on by and help work on Feburary 1983. http://cocomag.dyndns.org/TheRainbow.shtml -- tim lindner tlindner at macmess.org Bright From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Wed Jul 7 07:54:42 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:54:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044211641.55055.1278503682282.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Steven, As Rob R. has pointed out, http://pacedev.net I tried them all, not all compile error free but the LOE here is VERY high. Again major work being done. Fun to play pacman one minute and the CoCo the next... As Gene H. pointed out Pace is correct for the desoldering work station, but I should have expanded. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Hirsch To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:47:51 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Mark Marlette wrote: > > As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. > > At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his > .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. > Holy Hanna! > > This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. No doubt of that. But, the only way to learn is to try. > There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As > some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. I've had a modicum of training in computer architecture, digital design and synthesis, but most of it was years ago when I went back for my (belated) CS degree and minored in EE. Those creaks you hear are my brain muscles... Nice thing is that I work elbow to elbow with folks who live and breathe this stuff. > Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop > compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work > assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, > 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. Home box is a 2.4GHz Core2 Quad with 8GB of memory. We'll have to see how painful it turns out to be. > Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. Hats off to all the hardware gurus. As they say "..oh, you have a CS degree? That's nice, just don't touch anything.". Steve p.s. - What's 'Pace'? -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 7 08:56:49 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 07:56:49 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Mark, you should've seen the first 512K I made (and the subsequent look on dad's face). I stuck two simms together with double sided sticky tape and used wire-wrap wire to connect the address lines of the simms together a0-a0 and so on - yep - soldered directly to the tiny holes at the simm edge fingers. then ran the wire wrap wire to connectors and plugged it all in. Dad was like - now how are you going to mount that mess, I said double-sided sticky tape. A lecture followed... that was three years ago.. I've learned a bit since then :-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade > John, > > Thanks! > > Regards, > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:37:18 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade > > I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After > careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me > to kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If > you add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, > plus locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He > mailed it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install > and it worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced > wire, etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should > definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think > of the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself > for not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. > > Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. > > -John > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 01:36:00 From jdaggett at gate.net Wed Jul 7 09:15:15 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:15:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: , <1651739312.48029.1278454258843.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C347DE3.23835.347775@jdaggett.gate.net> Compile/Synthesis time is dependant on the design, which FPGA/CPLD used, as well as the computer. I would almost think that OS has some impact also. As for the computer, the more RAM the better. Large designs need a huge amount of RAM or huge swap space on the disk. Still swap space is far slower than RAM. james On 6 Jul 2010 at 22:10, Mark Marlette wrote: > > As I am no VHDL engineer, I have dabbled in it. > > At one point I had a version of Gary's code. As one might appreciate his .pof or .sof file, when you look at the source you WILL appreciate it. Holy Hanna! > > This is not for the faint heart and it is an advanced project, IMHO. > > There will be a lot of how the heck do you get that from this. :) As some of this is looking at someone else's code, it is complex. > > Another minor point, you better have a pretty good computer. My laptop compiled it in ~20 minutes and it is pretty snappy, engineering work assigned unit. The desktop took 1/2 hr to compile, it was a Dell P4, 3.2GHZ w/1GB of DRAM. > > Hats off to Gary and John K., Mark M. also has some cool stuff at Pace. > > Regards, > > Mark > Cloud-9 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven Hirsch > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:47:09 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 87, Issue 8 > > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Becker, Gary wrote: > > > The keyboard mapping is something I spent a lot of time on, but maybe I > > did not do a very good job. I probably should have mapped the PC TAB key > > to the CoCo3 Right Arrow key. I am not sure what key would be better for > > the CoCo3 Clear key. I guess the Cloud9 PS2 adapter uses Print Scrn with > > is also labeled SysRequest. I am open to other mappings. The keyboard > > definitely needs some work. I have never implemented any of the LEDs. > > The numeric keypad would be nice also. > > Gary, > > I'd be delighted to pursue the keyboard issues when you make the verilog > sources available. Might be a good "starter" project since (hopefully) > it's a well-bounded area of the hardware description. > > Steve > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Wed Jul 7 22:19:51 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:19:51 -0500 Subject: [Coco] The Cruncher In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> I came across a Coco program a few days ago, called "Cruncher". It is supposed to be able to "convert Dragon tapes to Coco format". Does any one on the list know about this program or what it might do? Are Dragon tapes recorded with a different format than Coco tapes? I think I have seen tapes that will work for both Dragon and Coco, so I'm guessing that the recording formats are the same. Might it do some conversion of the code, making the Dragon program Coco compatible? Any ideas or experience? Thanks! -- Steve -- From johnguin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 7 22:27:39 2010 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:27:39 -0700 Subject: [Coco] The Cruncher In-Reply-To: <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> Message-ID: IIRC, the Dragon tokenized BASIC commands differently. The workaround to get a tape working on either was to save with the ,A command: CSAVE"File.bas",A To have the file written in "pure ascii" so either machine could read it and re-tokenize it. But since the commands were the same and only the tokenized values varied, it seems the "Cruncher" probably just read the tape into a buffer, converted the needed values and saved in the desired format. But I may be wrong, John -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ostrom Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:20 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] The Cruncher I came across a Coco program a few days ago, called "Cruncher". It is supposed to be able to "convert Dragon tapes to Coco format". Does any one on the list know about this program or what it might do? Are Dragon tapes recorded with a different format than Coco tapes? I think I have seen tapes that will work for both Dragon and Coco, so I'm guessing that the recording formats are the same. Might it do some conversion of the code, making the Dragon program Coco compatible? Any ideas or experience? Thanks! -- Steve -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Wed Jul 7 22:45:44 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:45:44 -0500 Subject: [Coco] The Cruncher In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <72E53E19AA6F4EA4A721E86C8448BD6F@OstromPC> Message-ID: Thanks, John. Makes sense. -- Steve -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Guin" To: "'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts'" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] The Cruncher > IIRC, the Dragon tokenized BASIC commands differently. The workaround to > get a tape working on either was to save with the ,A command: > CSAVE"File.bas",A > To have the file written in "pure ascii" so either machine could read it > and > re-tokenize it. > > But since the commands were the same and only the tokenized values varied, > it seems the "Cruncher" probably just read the tape into a buffer, > converted > the needed values and saved in the desired format. > > But I may be wrong, > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Ostrom > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:20 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] The Cruncher > > I came across a Coco program a few days ago, called "Cruncher". It is > supposed to be able to "convert Dragon tapes to Coco format". Does any > one > on the list know about this program or what it might do? Are Dragon tapes > recorded with a different format than Coco tapes? I think I have seen > tapes > that will work for both Dragon and Coco, so I'm guessing that the > recording > formats are the same. Might it do some conversion of the code, making the > Dragon program Coco compatible? Any ideas or experience? > > Thanks! > > -- Steve -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From random.rodder at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 23:12:30 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 23:12:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak Message-ID: Hey CoCo fanatics, I finally finished my review of Roger's DrivePak and CoCoNet. It's all here with videos (GR2K is a yawner due to load time...). If you're considering getting one of these cool new devices, go take a look. Hopefully the info there will help you make the right decision for your needs. Later, Brian From random.rodder at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 23:15:01 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 23:15:01 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: Hehe... I was going to do a quickie review of the 512k upgrade, but, I think John beat me to it... lol. I bought mine in kit form so it took a little longer than 5 minutes, but, it does work great and it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to track down the appropriate SIMMs for the home brew upgrade. Brian On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) < sales at gimechip.com> wrote: > Mark, > you should've seen the first 512K I made (and the subsequent look on dad's > face). > I stuck two simms together with double sided sticky tape and used wire-wrap > wire to connect the address lines of the simms together a0-a0 and so on - > yep - soldered directly to the tiny holes at the simm edge fingers. then ran > the wire wrap wire to connectors and plugged it all in. Dad was like - now > how are you going to mount that mess, I said double-sided sticky tape. A > lecture followed... that was three years ago.. I've learned a bit since then > :-) > -John > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Marlette" < > mmarlette at frontiernet.net> > > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:49 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade > > > > John, >> >> Thanks! >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark >> Cloud-9 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Little John (GIMEchip.com) >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Sent: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:37:18 -0000 (UTC) >> Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade >> >> I wanted to make another 512K upgrade for one of my other CoCo 3's. After >> careful consideration and thought (remembering how much time it takes me to >> kludge one together) - I just ordered one from Cloud-9 with SIMMs. If you >> add up the time it takes to wire-wrap one or to etch your own board, plus >> locating two suitable SIMMs - You really can't beat Mark's price. He mailed >> it Saturday - I got it today - it took about 5 Minutes to install and it >> worked the first time (no troubles trying to track down a misplaced wire, >> etc. on my homemade ones). Anyone considering a 512K upgrade should >> definately consider just buying one ready to go from Mark - when I think of >> the hours I spent just making some of my upgrades - I could kick myself for >> not just biting the bullet and ordering one from Mark. >> >> Thanks Mark - This is a great piece of workmanship. >> >> -John >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2985 - Release Date: 07/06/10 > 01:36:00 > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 07:45:02 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > Hey CoCo fanatics, > > I finally finished my review of Roger's DrivePak and CoCoNet. It's all > here with > videos (GR2K is a yawner due to load time...). If you're considering getting > one of these cool new devices, go take a look. Hopefully the info there will > help you make the right decision for your needs. Brian, FYI your download link for the PLD equations is broken. -- From skwirl42 at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 08:03:25 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:03:25 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? Message-ID: Hi all! I was wondering if there are any smaller-footprint MPI replacements. Perhaps one that can run off an ATX power supply, or something. Thanks! -- James Dessart From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 8 08:19:07 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:19:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: Message-ID: James, I am working on a similar project. I am currently in the process of correcting all of the errors pointed out by list-members, plus a few I have discovered since... It isn't small - has 8 slots, but can be made with only 4 and is ATX powered. It is a high priority project as it has garnered more interest than any of my other projects. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:03 AM Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? > Hi all! I was wondering if there are any smaller-footprint MPI > replacements. Perhaps one that can run off an ATX power supply, or > something. Thanks! > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2988 - Release Date: 07/07/10 13:38:00 From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 09:01:16 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:01:16 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open or right click to download? On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Wed, 7 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Hey CoCo fanatics, >> >> I finally finished my review of Roger's DrivePak and CoCoNet. It's all >> here with >> >> videos (GR2K is a yawner due to load time...). If you're considering >> getting >> one of these cool new devices, go take a look. Hopefully the info there >> will >> help you make the right decision for your needs. >> > > Brian, FYI your download link for the PLD equations is broken. > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Thu Jul 8 09:47:18 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:47:18 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <527607920.47712.1278452966502.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4C35D6E6.6020302@iinet.net.au> Brian Blake wrote: > it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to track down > the appropriate SIMMs for the home brew upgrade. IIUC Classic Macs have the right SIMMS. I've got a handful of them that I found in the storeroom at work in a box marked "Mac Memory". Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 10:26:39 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open or > right click to download? I left-clicked. In 99.999% of such cases, Firefox will simply ask me what to do with the file - at which point I can specify a target directory or other action. Right-clicking did work properly, but begs the question of why your site behaves differently from "the norm" (whoever Norm is..). Steve -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 10:29:32 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open or > right click to download? Spoke too soon with my previous note. The file that downloaded was the server error message: 404 Not Found

Not Found

The requested URL /downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.pld was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

-- From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 10:48:19 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:48:19 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well that was weird... It's fixed now. On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > I just tested it and it downloaded fine. Did you click it to try and open >> or >> right click to download? >> > > Spoke too soon with my previous note. The file that downloaded was the > server error message: > > > > 404 Not Found > >

Not Found

>

The requested URL /downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.pld was not found on > this server.

>

Additionally, a 404 Not Found > error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the > request.

> > > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Thu Jul 8 11:05:59 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:05:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade In-Reply-To: <4C35D6E6.6020302@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1956356314.74829.1278601559880.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Mark, RARE find for sure! Last buy I did. I asked how many do you have? Several hundred. I'll take them all. Really? Hit and miss on the search. I know I looked high and low. I don't like buying 1,2 or 10. Freight in charges will kill you. Regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark McDougall To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:47:18 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Cloud-9's 512K Upgrade Brian Blake wrote: > it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to track down > the appropriate SIMMs for the home brew upgrade. IIUC Classic Macs have the right SIMMS. I've got a handful of them that I found in the storeroom at work in a box marked "Mac Memory". Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From farna at att.net Thu Jul 8 12:07:35 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:07:35 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? Message-ID: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> I remembered at least one MPI replacement -- the Slot Pak II (and later III?). Found some more info on it at http://entropy.tmok.com/~tumble/cfaqs/COCO.FAQ. It seems that "our" very own Chris Hawks designed and sold it, maybe he could be talked into making another run? Only three slots though. A company called "Orion" also made a three slot MPI replacement. It had the cartridge connectors on a cable though. That would make it the best choice for repackaging a system where the carts weren't going to be moved much -- they would have to be secured somehow inside the repack case. This is the ONLY mention of these devices I could find using Google (searched for "coco slot pak" and "coco xport"). I'd check the Rainbow archives for pics, I do recall seeing at least the Slot Pak in ads. I'd check about a year after the demise of the MPI... 1989 and later? ---------------------- Slotpak (as excerpted from Marty Goodman's review by permission) There are now two new entries into the field of Multipak replacements: Howard Medical's "Slot Pak II" (designed by Chris Hawk of Hawksoft) and the Xport from Orion. Both offer three buffered slots. ..... External Appearance: The Slot Pak II (SPII) is packaged in what appears to be an old, full size, disk controller plastic case. There are three 40 pin edge card sockets sticking up on top of the case thru holes in the case. There is a jack for connection to a 12 volt wall transformer (supplied). Glued to the bottom of the pack is a U-shaped piece of plastic that supports the SPII, so that the weight of devices plugged in to it does not produce leverage that would deform the CoCo's 40 pin expansion socket. This is a nice touch, for the SPII plugs directly in to the expansion socket, and cards plug in to the three slots on the top surface of the SPII. There are no mechanical guides for ROM packs or cards... the edge card connectors are their sole support... ...The device uses ten small scale (74 series) logic chips internally -- three for buffering address and data lines and the rest for slot selection... XPort by Orion Technologies excerpted from a New Product Release. The XPort is Orion's answer to the latest of Tandy's casualties, the Multipak Interface. While the XPort is not a true duplication of the Multipak, it contains all of the necessary features that the common Color Computer user needs - Multiple slots, a fully buffered bus, slot switching, and a power supply external to the CoCo for the added cartridges which includes +5 and +/-12 volts. ... We offer not just two, but three slots with which to work. These slots are configured to allow hardware switching of the cartridge ROM in two of the slots, with the third slot being utilized for cartridges that have no internal software - such as the Telepak II, Tandy's Speech and Sound cartridge, a MIDI cartridge, etc. We gave the XPort something that was sadly lacking with the MPI, and that was MOBILITY. Since the XPort terminates as a cable, the working end of the cable with the peripherals installed can be moved out of sight by merely placing them where you like within 15 inches of your computer's cartridge port. The buffered bus allows a stronger signal, allowing the longer cable length than a standard "Y" cable. The XPort's internal circuitry will be powered by your Coco, drawing less than a standard disk controller, and all external peripherals will be powered by an external wall transformer (supplied) and voltage regulation circuitry that is external to the Coco's own power supply. The +/-12 volt (30 mA max. each) is provided by a DC-DC convertor in the XPort, and supplies enough power for the Burke and Burke XT interface, an older 12 volt contoller, or other devices (such as Disto's RS-232 cartridge). The XPort has been designed to allow all I/O to occur from address&HC000 (49152), the external ROM address, and up. ... -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 12:37:27 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> References: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> Message-ID: <201007081237.27508.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday 08 July 2010, Frank Swygert wrote: >I remembered at least one MPI replacement -- the Slot Pak II (and later > III?). Found some more info on it at > http://entropy.tmok.com/~tumble/cfaqs/COCO.FAQ. It seems that "our" very > own Chris Hawks designed and sold it, maybe he could be talked into > making another run? Only three slots though. > >A company called "Orion" also made a three slot MPI replacement. It had > the cartridge connectors on a cable though. That would make it the best > choice for repackaging a system where the carts weren't going to be moved > much -- they would have to be secured somehow inside the repack case. I have one of those, POS. You are dependent on the single ground pin in the cable and because of data clashes because two different sources are trying to drive the data bus at the same time for about 10ns on the read/write changeover, I found the crash rate was in crashes per second. Adding the extra grounding of the ear clips fixes 99.9% of that. It would probably be ok if the carts pcb's were all firmly mounted and their grounds well connected though. >This is the ONLY mention of these devices I could find using Google > (searched for "coco slot pak" and "coco xport"). I'd check the Rainbow > archives for pics, I do recall seeing at least the Slot Pak in ads. I'd > check about a year after the demise of the MPI... 1989 and later? > >---------------------- > > Slotpak (as excerpted from Marty Goodman's review by permission) > >There are now two new entries into the field of Multipak replacements: >Howard Medical's "Slot Pak II" (designed by Chris Hawk of Hawksoft) and >the Xport from Orion. Both offer three buffered slots. > > ..... >External Appearance: The Slot Pak II (SPII) is packaged in what appears >to be an old, full size, disk controller plastic case. There are three >40 pin edge card sockets sticking up on top of the case thru holes in >the case. There is a jack for connection to a 12 volt wall transformer >(supplied). Glued to the bottom of the pack is a U-shaped piece of > plastic that supports the SPII, so that the weight of devices plugged in > to it does not produce leverage that would deform the CoCo's 40 pin > expansion socket. This is a nice touch, for the SPII plugs directly in to > the expansion socket, and cards plug in to the three slots on the top > surface of the SPII. There are no mechanical guides for ROM packs or > cards... the edge card connectors are their sole support... > >...The device uses ten small scale (74 series) logic chips internally -- >three for buffering address and data lines and the rest for slot > selection... > > > XPort by Orion Technologies excerpted from a New Product Release. > >The XPort is Orion's answer to the latest of Tandy's casualties, the > Multipak Interface. While the XPort is not a true duplication of the > Multipak, it contains all of the necessary features that the common Color > Computer user needs - Multiple slots, a fully buffered bus, slot > switching, and a power supply external to the CoCo for the added > cartridges which includes +5 and +/-12 volts. > >... We offer not just two, but three slots with which to work. These > slots are configured to allow hardware switching of the cartridge > ROM in two of the slots, with the third slot being utilized for > cartridges that have no internal software - such as the Telepak II, > Tandy's Speech and Sound cartridge, a MIDI cartridge, etc. This 'cable' I have, has no logic in it at all. >We gave the XPort something that was sadly lacking with the MPI, and > that was MOBILITY. Since the XPort terminates as a cable, the > working end of the cable with the peripherals installed can be moved > out of sight by merely placing them where you like within 15 inches of > your computer's cartridge port. The buffered bus allows a stronger > signal, allowing the longer cable length than a standard "Y" cable. > >The XPort's internal circuitry will be powered by your Coco, > drawing less than a standard disk controller, and all external > peripherals will be powered by an external wall transformer (supplied) > and voltage regulation circuitry that is external to the Coco's own > power supply. The +/-12 volt (30 mA max. each) is provided by a DC-DC > convertor in the XPort, and supplies enough power for the Burke and > Burke XT interface, an older 12 volt contoller, or other devices (such as > Disto's RS-232 cartridge). > >The XPort has been designed to allow all I/O to occur from address&HC000 > (49152), the external ROM address, and up. ... So any of these would be a better designed solution than what I have in the coco's spares cabinet. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) NT (as in Windows NT) is short for "Nothing There". From mechacoco at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:35:26 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:35:26 -0600 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> References: <4C35F7C7.3080409@att.net> Message-ID: On 7/8/10, Frank Swygert wrote: > I remembered at least one MPI replacement -- the Slot Pak II (and later > III?). > Found some more info on it at > http://entropy.tmok.com/~tumble/cfaqs/COCO.FAQ. > It seems that "our" very own Chris Hawks designed and sold it, maybe he > could > be talked into making another run? Only three slots though. > > A company called "Orion" also made a three slot MPI replacement. It had the > cartridge connectors on a cable though. That would make it the best choice > for repackaging a system where the carts weren't going to be moved much -- > they would have to be secured somehow inside the repack case. > --- There is also the PBJ CC-BUS, which has six slots and is not MPI compatible. Darren From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:36:22 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > Well that was weird... It's fixed now. Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns the error I sent in the last message. -- From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:41:43 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:41:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try the direct link. http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would expect... On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >> > > Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns > the error I sent in the last message. > > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From t.fadden at cox.net Thu Jul 8 13:46:29 2010 From: t.fadden at cox.net (Tim Fadden) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:46:29 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> Works fine for me also with a left or right click. For me, hovering over the link on my browser shows the direct link you posted just below, not the file name that is in the error information. Tim On 7/8/2010 10:41 AM, Brian Blake wrote: > Try the direct link. > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar > > I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, > Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would > expect... > > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >> >> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns >> the error I sent in the last message. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > From jdaggett at gate.net Thu Jul 8 17:54:46 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:54:46 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> How small is small? Discrete logic may have an advantage over usign a CPLD in that you will need only one power rail as compared to two or three depending on CPLD. Cost wise neither maybe all that different. A discrete version can be down with SMT parts that would reduce size. The only discrete part that is not SMT that I know of would be the PAL chip. I have no means of programming one. That is where a CPLD would come in handy. Those equations are easily done in VHDL. In fact much of the circuit is relatively simple. Could almost do it with the schematic entry for either Xilinx or Altera software. james On 8 Jul 2010 at 8:03, James Dessart wrote: > Hi all! I was wondering if there are any smaller-footprint MPI > replacements. Perhaps one that can run off an ATX power supply, or > something. Thanks! > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From museum.it.arlington at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 17:17:11 2010 From: museum.it.arlington at gmail.com (Gilmore) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:17:11 -0000 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] 1st annual Vintage Computer Festival Southwest Message-ID: The 1st annual Vintage Computer Festival Southwest will be held August 7th and 8th, in the Rio Grande Ballroom, in the E.H. Hereford University Center, University of Texas Arlington. The event is sponsored by the Museum of Information Technology at Arlington, the UTA College of Engineering, the UTA Office of Information Technology and Vintage Tech. The VCF is an international event that celebrates the history of computing. There have been VCFs at several locations since 1997. Our mission is to promote the preservation of early computers by allowing people to experience the technologies, people and stories that embody the remarkable tale of the computer revolution. Southern US companies played a large role in the early days of the computer industry and the VCF Southwest hopes to focus on their contributions. VCF is not a swap meet, but you will have a chance to buy things or even come home with prizes. There will be speakers and videos each morning, exhibits each afternoon, and special events throughout the weekend. The VCF is held indoors, rain or shine. Admission is $10 for one day, $15 for both days, and free for ages 17 and younger. Parking is free. Hours are 9 A.M. - 5 P.M. on both Saturday and Sunday. Our web page giving more details about the event is http://mit-a.com/VCF1.shtml Please let us know if you can help us in this endeavor. If you would like to talk about any company or technology involved in the computer industry back in the `70s or `80s please let us know. If your company would be interested in being a sponsor of the event along with MITA and UT Arlington we would be happy to discuss that as well. From johnchasteen.2 at juno.com Thu Jul 8 18:36:07 2010 From: johnchasteen.2 at juno.com (John T Chasteen) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:36:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Chromoasette tapes Message-ID: <20100708.173608.4360.6.johnchasteen.2@juno.com> Hello Bob Devries I found your e-mail dated 27 April 2008 which has a list of Chromasette tapes which you have converted to .DSK files Are these available for downloading? If so, what is the URL? so far I don't have all my tapes togeather...I am not organized. John ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c36530599f64378d5m02duc From random.rodder at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 21:31:38 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:31:38 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> References: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> Message-ID: I've removed about 40 seconds and added some music in the Goldrunner 2000 video in the DrivePak review. I'm learning a few things about video editing and such, so hopefully future vids might not be so painfully boring... On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Tim Fadden wrote: > Works fine for me also with a left or right click. > For me, hovering over the link on my browser shows the direct link you > posted just below, not the file name that is in the error information. > > Tim > > > On 7/8/2010 10:41 AM, Brian Blake wrote: > >> Try the direct link. >> >> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >> >> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >> expect... >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>> >>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns >>> the error I sent in the last message. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From badfrog at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 00:52:36 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:52:36 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <4C360EF5.6010202@cox.net> Message-ID: The only suggestion I have is to make an alternate page format. While I love the CoCo style, man, that webpage really messes with my eyes after a couple of minutes! No offense meant, your site is awesome. I love the content, but it's kind of hard to read for more than a few minutes. (Maybe using the CoCo for so many years is why my eyes are messed up in the first place!) On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Brian Blake wrote: > I've removed about 40 seconds and added some music in the Goldrunner 2000 > video in the DrivePak review. I'm learning a few things about video editing > and such, so hopefully future vids might not be so painfully boring... > > > > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Tim Fadden wrote: > >> ?Works fine for me also with a left or right click. >> For me, hovering over the link on my browser shows the direct link you >> posted just below, not the file name that is in the error information. >> >> Tim >> >> >> On 7/8/2010 10:41 AM, Brian Blake wrote: >> >>> Try the direct link. >>> >>> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>> >>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >>> expect... >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch ?wrote: >>> >>> ?On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>> Still not working for me. ?Whether I click left or right, it just returns >>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Coco mailing list >>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>>> >>>> ?-- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 01:20:46 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 00:20:46 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak References: Message-ID: I have posted the 26-3124 upgrade here as well (the 26-3024 equations are also there in the comments): http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/06/26-3124-mpi-coco-3-upgrade-2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Hirsch" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > >> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. > > Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns > the error I sent in the last message. > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2989 - Release Date: 07/08/10 01:36:00 From skwirl42 at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 12:19:43 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:19:43 -0300 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: > How small is small? Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, movable jumpers would be fine. The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I can to reduce system footprint. -- James Dessart From mikewarns at yahoo.com Fri Jul 9 13:26:22 2010 From: mikewarns at yahoo.com (Mike Warns) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked Message-ID: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 15:20:14 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:20:14 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> James, I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and I'm thinking they are right. There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% compatibility with the Tandy MPI. I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you folks as well. In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all thru) Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to me - I'm always glad to help. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >> How small is small? > > Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for > the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit > into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, > movable jumpers would be fine. > > The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as > possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I > can to reduce system footprint. > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 15:29:17 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:29:17 -0500 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike, I had that happen once when I was using AOheLl - I logged in on a friends computer which was infected with a virus - once I logged in, it sent itself to all of my address book and randomly generated addresses (exactly 500 total) - AOL canceled my account but I called them and got it straightened out and then canceled the account myself - I just wanted to make sure they knew I hadn't done that on purpose. I then got DSL which is wonderful speedwise, but I don't really download enough to warrant the expense, however, when I install something like Xilinx or Altera web editions, it comes in handy. Anyway, it could have been one of those evil little virus' that got you. I don't know why people do that - it's never made any sense to me. I'd rather help people, not hurt them. Have a good day - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Warns" To: ; ; ; ; "April" ; ; ; "russ" ; "Didier Brival" ; "Tony Cascio" ; "Chuck Chiles" ; "St. Paul Lutheran Church" ; ; ; "Casey Collins" ; "Al Corbi" ; "Tim Costello" ; "Winifred Creamer" ; "Dan Daker" ; "Haband Deals" ; "Dex" ; ; ; "Eric" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:26 PM Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked > Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than > normal. > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From dragonbytes at cox.net Fri Jul 9 16:00:45 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:00:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked In-Reply-To: References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19854628-55F5-4DB2-9ADA-B657D23E7A41@cox.net> Thats why I use Macs :-) While there ARE a few virsues out there for Mac, they are so rare compared to Windows viruses that it's almost non-existant. Linux is another good one for avoiding virsuses. Just figured I'd throw that out there. - Todd Wallace On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Mike, I had that happen once when I was using AOheLl - I logged in on a friends computer which was infected with a virus - once I logged in, it sent itself to all of my address book and randomly generated addresses (exactly 500 total) - AOL canceled my account but I called them and got it straightened out and then canceled the account myself - I just wanted to make sure they knew I hadn't done that on purpose. I then got DSL which is wonderful speedwise, but I don't really download enough to warrant the expense, however, when I install something like Xilinx or Altera web editions, it comes in handy. > > Anyway, it could have been one of those evil little virus' that got you. I don't know why people do that - it's never made any sense to me. I'd rather help people, not hurt them. Have a good day - John > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Warns" > To: ; ; ; ; "April" ; ; ; "russ" ; "Didier Brival" ; "Tony Cascio" ; "Chuck Chiles" ; "St. Paul Lutheran Church" ; ; ; "Casey Collins" ; "Al Corbi" ; "Tim Costello" ; "Winifred Creamer" ; "Dan Daker" ; "Haband Deals" ; "Dex" ; ; ; "Eric" > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:26 PM > Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked > > >> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Fri Jul 9 16:15:23 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:15:23 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. At least I think a small 1K x 8 ROM should still be available... On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > James, > I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. > > I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and I'm thinking they are right. > > There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% compatibility with the Tandy MPI. > > I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you folks as well. > > In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) > > I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all thru) > > Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to me - I'm always glad to help. > > -John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > > >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >>> How small is small? >> >> Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for >> the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit >> into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, >> movable jumpers would be fine. >> >> The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as >> possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I >> can to reduce system footprint. >> >> -- >> James Dessart >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Fri Jul 9 16:18:19 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:18:19 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <24F31F9C-8815-45AF-B63B-AB3FF372AB01@zaphod.tzo.com> Never mind... Without knowing more about the specifics, I think I jumped in a bit soon. On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. > > At least I think a small 1K x 8 ROM should still be available... > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> James, >> I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. >> >> I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and I'm thinking they are right. >> >> There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% compatibility with the Tandy MPI. >> >> I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you folks as well. >> >> In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) >> >> I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all thru) >> >> Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to me - I'm always glad to help. >> >> -John >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM >> Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? >> >> >>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >>>> How small is small? >>> >>> Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for >>> the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit >>> into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, >>> movable jumpers would be fine. >>> >>> The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as >>> possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I >>> can to reduce system footprint. >>> >>> -- >>> James Dessart >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 16:20:26 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:20:26 -0500 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <19854628-55F5-4DB2-9ADA-B657D23E7A41@cox.net> Message-ID: <0BAF9FAAAAD8416B81AE0D573A34075F@hackersafa71ff> I love Linux also, and FreeBSD (actually, mostly using PC-BSD these days when I'm not at my Windows Machine). Have you ever connected a CoCo 3 serially to a Linux machine and used the CoCo as a terminal? I love doing stuff like that and commanding the PC from the CoCo just to make visitors go: Uh.. What???? That's why I really want to get one of Roger's Wireless Pak's - when they are available again... My MACs are very old ones - the newest being one of the original Imacs and the oldest being one of the original B/W Macs, but with an internal hard drive added. I would love to have a new Mac, but just can't afford one. I've seen places selling knock offs with a "hacked" Mac OSX, very cheap, but I just refuse to violate Apple's License :-) (which would make me as evil as those 'bleeping' virus writers.) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Wallace" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] My email was hacked > Thats why I use Macs :-) While there ARE a few virsues out there for Mac, > they are so rare compared to Windows viruses that it's almost > non-existant. Linux is another good one for avoiding virsuses. Just > figured I'd throw that out there. > > - Todd Wallace > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> Mike, I had that happen once when I was using AOheLl - I logged in on a >> friends computer which was infected with a virus - once I logged in, it >> sent itself to all of my address book and randomly generated addresses >> (exactly 500 total) - AOL canceled my account but I called them and got >> it straightened out and then canceled the account myself - I just wanted >> to make sure they knew I hadn't done that on purpose. I then got DSL >> which is wonderful speedwise, but I don't really download enough to >> warrant the expense, however, when I install something like Xilinx or >> Altera web editions, it comes in handy. >> >> Anyway, it could have been one of those evil little virus' that got you. >> I don't know why people do that - it's never made any >> sense to me. I'd rather help people, not hurt them. Have a good day - >> John >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Warns" >> To: ; ; >> ; ; "April" >> ; ; >> ; "russ" ; "Didier Brival" >> ; "Tony Cascio" ; >> "Chuck Chiles" ; "St. Paul Lutheran Church" >> ; ; >> ; "Casey Collins" ; "Al Corbi" >> ; "Tim Costello" ; >> "Winifred Creamer" ; "Dan Daker" >> ; "Haband Deals" ; "Dex" >> ; ; ; "Eric" >> >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:26 PM >> Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked >> >> >>> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than >>> normal. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 >> 01:36:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Fri Jul 9 16:21:31 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked In-Reply-To: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6B5FE5A1-9D16-4542-A003-BE144EF6271C@zaphod.tzo.com> A word of advice: Never use the CC field. Use the BCC field instead. The CC field creates an email with a lot of email addresses available to anyone who receives it. These things are just floating all over the internet, waiting to be harvested by spammers. The BCC field will hide those addresses from all recipients. On Jul 9, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mike Warns wrote: > Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 16:24:05 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:24:05 -0400 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked In-Reply-To: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For future reference, you really don't want to use the To: field for an address list, especially a list of unrelated email addresses such as this. Always use BCC. By putting all these email addresses in an email to each other, you've set the stage for all of them to be sent spam/virus emails if any of them become infected. Additionally, all of the email addresses in your To: field will probably show up on the web in list archives, and of couse every list member now has all of these addresses in their mail client, further exposing these folks to potential spam or virus backwash. Anyway... BCC is your friend :) Never To: unless there is some reason all parties should know that the others have been sent the message (and even then, CC is usually more appropriate). Putting your own email address in the To:, and the email list in BCC is the standard practice. -Aaron On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Mike Warns wrote: > Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. > > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 16:42:36 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:42:36 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net><059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> <24F31F9C-8815-45AF-B63B-AB3FF372AB01@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <70F50C2DE4BC4EA98B8369B7D33A4838@hackersafa71ff> I have used EPROMs for a variety of logic functions. I once used one to remap a keyboard matrix on one of my older vintage computing projects. I have a giant supply of GALs though - I bought a bunch in bulk - 16V8's and 22V10's. I'm using a 22V10 in the 8-Slot MPI. I can give you all of the specifics of Tandy's MPI: It's just a set of buffers on the Address Lines and some of the control lines. Reset is buffered one way, so a Cartridge can't reset the coco - I'd like to devise a "bi-directional' buffer on the reset line... A bi-directional buffer on the data bus which is enabled on: CTS* (a read only select for the external cartridge ROM area $C000 up), SLENB* (a signal that disables the CoCo's internal 74LS138 - if a cartridge asserts this signal, it can take over an area of the coco memory normally used by other internal peripherals), and $FF40-$FF7F (the last official area assigned for CoCo I/O expansion). There is a latch and buffer forming an 8-bit readback latch (register) at $FF7F. Writing to this area selects the slot that has CTS*/CART* and SCS* signal. Basically, the upper 4 bits point to the slot for CTS*/CART* and the lower 4-bits point to cart that has SCS*. As you can see, the design actually allows for a total of 16 slots, but this is NOT practical - the buffers would soon be overloaded exceeding their fan-out capacity - honestly, I think 8-slots is pushing it. A 1-of-4 decoder has CTS* as it's enable and the MSB (only the first two bits in Tandy's MPI) of the slot select register as the A and B inputs. This Routes CTS* to one of the 4 slots. Similarly, the same is done for SCS*, but select is made by the LSB. Finally, a 4 to 1 MUX takes in the CART* interrupt and routes the one from the slot selected by the MSB (CTS*) of slot select register back to the CoCo. As Gene Heskett pointed out, many people have bypassed the CART* selection by wiring all the CART* interrupts together (WIRE-ORed) and back to the CoCo - this is almost a requirement for OS-9 to not lose characters from, say, an RS-232 Pak. My 8-slot design allows you to selectively bypass the interrupt on a per-slot basis. There is also the slot select switch - on power up or reset, the MPI points both SCS* and CTS*/CART* to the slot selected by the switch. After a write to the $FF7F register, the switch is disabled until reset or power is cycled. That's about it - it's an extrememly simple design, so when I was asked to clone it, I was relatively certain that I could do so rather painlessly. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Rosenbrock" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > Never mind... Without knowing more about the specifics, I think I jumped > in a bit soon. > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. >> >> At least I think a small 1K x 8 ROM should still be available... >> >> On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> >>> James, >>> I have had several people suggest that I redo the design using a single >>> PCB rather than the two. This is a good idea. >>> >>> I wanted to use a CPLD to put the whole thing into, but a couple of >>> different folks suggested that SMD 74xx series would be preferable and >>> I'm thinking they are right. >>> >>> There is a GAL in the design to determine when to enable the data >>> buffer, but even this could be done in discrete logic, though I will >>> keep the GAL because it allows me to economically add a few extra >>> features, such as a jumper to enable the $FF8x range if desired, as well >>> as enabling writes to $FF0x (so external user peripheral devices could >>> receive data that is written to the PIA) - this would be write only, >>> otherwise contention would result on reads of the PIA. The $FF1x area >>> can be enabled for both reads and writes (on a CoCo 1 or 2, this should >>> only be enabled on writes, or not at all, On a CoCo 3 this area is >>> available for read and write), $FF2x (same conditions as $FF0x), $FF3x >>> (same conditions as $FF1x) and so on - the idea is to create the most >>> flexible MPI replacement possible while still allowing 100% >>> compatibility with the Tandy MPI. >>> >>> I have also decided to release all of my projects as completely open and >>> allow others to manufacture & sell them if they so desire, Royalty free. >>> I started this venture to benifit the entire CoCo community, and to keep >>> my mind off being sick. It's win-win for me and hopefully all of you >>> folks as well. >>> >>> In the long run, I would like to design a replacement CoCo 3 motherboard >>> with built-in slots and an ATX form factor - a GIME would be all that >>> would need to be plugged in - which means a deceased coco 3 would be >>> needed to snag the GIME. Now, this project is more likely to never reach >>> completion that to be completed - it's a lot of work, but if there are >>> any folks who want to start a design team - I'm all in - just give me a >>> holler (that's southern talk Y'all) :-) >>> >>> I'm always spending almost all of my waking hours working on this stuff, >>> and when I get stuck, Dad helps (yeah - I haven't done all of this work >>> by myself - I've had help - it's just my determination to see this all >>> thru) >>> >>> Thanks Guys (and Ladies) - if you have ideas for designs - pitch them to >>> me - I'm always glad to help. >>> >>> -John >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dessart" >>> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >>> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:19 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:54 PM, wrote: >>>>> How small is small? >>>> >>>> Ideally just the board, connector for the CoCo, edge connectors for >>>> the individual cards and a connector for an ATX power supply, to fit >>>> into an ATX case or whatever for a repack. If anything needs switches, >>>> movable jumpers would be fine. >>>> >>>> The idea is to make my CoCo system take up as little space as >>>> possible, so I'd probably be adding an RGB converter and whatever I >>>> can to reduce system footprint. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> James Dessart >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Coco mailing list >>>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 >>> 01:36:00 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 16:44:07 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:44:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked References: <118697.43028.qm@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6B5FE5A1-9D16-4542-A003-BE144EF6271C@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <360051BAE7914B408092B00C725E19C7@hackersafa71ff> Good point - if I had hit reply all instead of just reply, all of his buddies would have got the email too :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Rosenbrock" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] My email was hacked >A word of advice: Never use the CC field. Use the BCC field instead. > > The CC field creates an email with a lot of email addresses available to > anyone who receives it. These things are just floating all over the > internet, waiting to be harvested by spammers. > > The BCC field will hide those addresses from all recipients. > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Mike Warns wrote: > >> Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than >> normal. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2991 - Release Date: 07/09/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 9 19:55:56 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:55:56 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal Message-ID: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> I have posted some of this here: http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, but I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM Upgrade (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generated PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. Thanks All - John 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com From cappy2112 at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 00:06:08 2010 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 21:06:08 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? Message-ID: Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. Has anyone else had problems? From random.rodder at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 00:08:15 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:08:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would be me.... What are you trying to download and what browser are you using? On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? > I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. > Has anyone else had problems? > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 01:53:51 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:53:51 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal References: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <20D6C32547D34F25AC5A266F41DAC911@hackersafa71ff> I have just finished wire-wrapping a standard 30 pin simm upgrade for the CoCo 3 and am using the SIMMs from my recently acquired Cloud-9 512K upgrade to test it with. So far it is passing all of the tests from the Performance Peripherals 512K Memory Test program. I am using this memory test program because it has a test specifically targeted at testing the memory's ability to retain refresh. As I am now satisfied that this standard wire-wrapped 512K simm upgrade functions properly, I am about to add the 16V8 GAL to the wire-wrapped mess that I now have. This will allow me to test whether or not my refresh equations within the GAL are actually functioning. I will replace the simms with the 3-chip kind and some odd 2-chip ones that I've found. If this test passes, then I'll be able to produce the 2-Meg upgrade. I'll post the results in a half hour or so. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:55 PM Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal >I have posted some of this here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems > with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, but > I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John > > This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a > 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten > this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM Upgrade > (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin > SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story > if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better > formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into > WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as > if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet > to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once > the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you > could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and > Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back > (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generat > ed PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade > intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of > this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping > you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. > > Thanks All - John > 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) > > > > > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 01:58:16 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:58:16 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? References: Message-ID: If you are using one of those weird semi-firewalls such as Peer Guardian 2, they have been known to block access to some ftp's. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Cappellini" To: Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:06 PM Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? > Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? > I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. > Has anyone else had problems? > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 02:02:31 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 01:02:31 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal References: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <46A39A904E5E42F3B9611503AF1EAC77@hackersafa71ff> I have just finished wire-wrapping a standard 30 pin simm upgrade for the CoCo 3 and am using the SIMMs from my recently acquired Cloud-9 512K upgrade to test it with. So far it is passing all of the tests from the Performance Peripherals 512K Memory Test program. I am using this memory test program because it has a test specifically targeted at testing the memory's ability to retain refresh. As I am now satisfied that this standard wire-wrapped 512K simm upgrade functions properly, I am about to add the 16V8 GAL to the wire-wrapped mess that I now have. This will allow me to test whether or not my refresh equations within the GAL are actually functioning. I will replace the simms with the 3-chip kind and some odd 2-chip ones that I've found. If this test passes, then I'll be able to produce the 2-Meg upgrade. I'll post the results in a half hour or so. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:55 PM Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That Goal >I have posted some of this here: > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems > with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, but > I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John > > This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a > 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten > this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM Upgrade > (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin > SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story > if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better > formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into > WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as > if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet > to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once > the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you > could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and > Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back > (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generat > ed PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade > intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of > this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping > you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. > > Thanks All - John > 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) > > > > > > http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 03:17:27 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:17:27 -0500 Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards ThatGoal References: <698A7A7E49FC4B48A8D8C8FFF13FBBC8@hackersafa71ff> <46A39A904E5E42F3B9611503AF1EAC77@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <49217308A5FC402DB83EC10CDBCCF85B@hackersafa71ff> Okay, so I've finished wire-wrapping the contraption. I am able to get the normal startup screen using the 3-chip simms, but when I try to execute the memory test, the computer goes into outer-space. So - the equations need work. I'm headed back to the drawing board... It almost works... but... -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards ThatGoal >I have just finished wire-wrapping a standard 30 pin simm upgrade for the > CoCo 3 and am using the SIMMs from my recently acquired Cloud-9 512K > upgrade > to test it with. So far it is passing all of the tests from the > Performance > Peripherals 512K Memory Test program. I am using this memory test program > because it has a test specifically targeted at testing the memory's > ability > to retain refresh. As I am now satisfied that this standard wire-wrapped > 512K simm upgrade functions properly, I am about to add the 16V8 GAL to > the > wire-wrapped mess that I now have. This will allow me to test whether or > not > my refresh equations within the GAL are actually functioning. I will > replace > the simms with the 3-chip kind and some odd 2-chip ones that I've found. > If > this test passes, then I'll be able to produce the 2-Meg upgrade. I'll > post > the results in a half hour or so. -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:55 PM > Subject: [Coco] 512K/1M/2M512M CoCo 3 Upgrades - Some Work Towards That > Goal > > >>I have posted some of this here: >> >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com >> >> I am hoping fellow list members may be able to spot potential problems >> with this design. I hope to get a functional 2-Meg upgrade ready soon, >> but >> I've got to test these equations first. - Thanks All - John >> >> This is my proposed method of allowing the use of DRAM requiring a >> 512-Cycle refresh in a CoCo 3 512K/1M/2M RAM Upgrade. If I have gotten >> this correct, then it should be possible to make a 5-chip 512K RAM >> Upgrade >> (four 256Kx4 DRAMs plus the GAL 16V8), or to use Any 30-Pin or 72-Pin >> SIMMs in a CoCo 3 SIMM Upgrade. The Equations below should tell the story >> if you examine them, or preferably, download the WinCUPL file for better >> formatted text. Simply unzip the download and load the ".pld" file into >> WinCUPL or a text editor. Let me know if you spot anything that seems as >> if it will not work. Getting these equations working properly (I have yet >> to test them) is the key to my proposed 2-Meg and 512-Meg Upgrades. Once >> the memory board has been worked out, the DAT Board is child's play - you >> could simply Copy DISTO's DAT Board, but my design uses a SRAM and >> Multiplexers, etc. and also allows the added DAT bits to be read back >> (they are write only in DISTO's 2-Megger). I have generat >> ed PCB Layouts for both a 5-chip 512K and a 30-Pin SIMM 512K Upgrade >> intended to use the PAL generated from these equations, however all of >> this needs to be tested before I decide to order any boards - I'm hoping >> you guys can let me know if this looks feasioble and correct. >> >> Thanks All - John >> 512KAnySIMM_PLUS_512K-44256_PLD-Equations(GIMEchip.com) >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.coco3.com/community/2010/07/more-on-coco-3-memory-upgrades-512k1m2m-from-gimechip-com >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 > 13:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 10 03:29:36 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:29:36 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C382160.7060900@aurigae.demon.co.uk> On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a > small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these devices are generally quite expensive. The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any surface mount soldering. Just my 2p/2c :) Phill. From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 10 03:36:57 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:36:57 +0100 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> On 10/07/2010 05:06, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? > I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. > Has anyone else had problems? Humm what is the URL of that site ramrodder.com redirects to something that is definatly not CoCo related :) Cheers. Phill. From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 04:00:50 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 03:00:50 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: <4C364926.23045.3B5B01@jdaggett.gate.net> <059F4AB76B12437ABB77754265F6987B@hackersafa71ff> <4C382160.7060900@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> Putting the whole thing in a CPLD would be the most flexible method. It would allow entire restructuring of the device on the fly. I'll decide soon as to how to proceed - I'm currently engrossed in the memory upgrade, which is being problematic (human error, but I shall not give up) Thanks All - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. > > The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external > programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these devices > are generally quite expensive. > > The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit > programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively > cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are > generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the > XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any > surface mount soldering. > > Just my 2p/2c :) > > Phill. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 08:28:39 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 07:28:39 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? References: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> Yeah - I think it's supposed to be randomrodder.com or coco.randomrodder.com -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:36 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? > On 10/07/2010 05:06, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >> I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >> Has anyone else had problems? > > Humm what is the URL of that site ramrodder.com redirects to something > that is definatly not CoCo related :) > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 13:36:00 From random.rodder at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 09:54:55 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:54:55 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: lmao... I didn't notice the spelling errors last night when I responded - too tired. If he's really using that address, that might explain a bunch.... > On 10/07/2010 05:06, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >>> I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >>> Has anyone else had problems? >>> >> >> Humm what is the URL of that site ramrodder.com redirects to something >> that is definatly not CoCo related :) >> >> Cheers. >> >> Phill. >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 > 13:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com Sat Jul 10 09:51:25 2010 From: Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com (Linux Rules) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:51:25 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> References: <4C382319.3050208@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <52A8399E5F924CB8B444C6C50E4C7FBC@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C387ADD.1070701@austin.rr.com> On 7/10/2010 7:28 AM, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Yeah - I think it's supposed to be randomrodder.com or > coco.randomrodder.com > -John From coco.randomrodder.co, I just downloaded properly. (Firefox browser on Win7)........ Site seems to work OK. cheers, johnd From jdaggett at gate.net Sat Jul 10 17:51:07 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:51:07 -0400 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. ALmost all new CPLDs are no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still around that both input and output will drive 5 volt TTL logic. They are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level translation to properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. just a thought james On 10 Jul 2010 at 3:00, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Putting the whole thing in a CPLD would be the most flexible method. It > would allow entire restructuring of the device on the fly. I'll decide soon > as to how to proceed - I'm currently engrossed in the memory upgrade, which > is being problematic (human error, but I shall not give up) > Thanks All - John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:29 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > > > > On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a > >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. > > > > The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external > > programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these devices > > are generally quite expensive. > > > > The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit > > programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively > > cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are > > generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the > > XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any > > surface mount soldering. > > > > Just my 2p/2c :) > > > > Phill. > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 > 13:36:00 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 18:56:22 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:56:22 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <687573B18F444BC5892533874BA6BC1B@hackersafa71ff> Agreed. I believe it would be best to stick with the suggestions of SMD TTL. Also, I've noted that the transistor circuit that I had intended to power on the ATX supply probably will not work. It needs to be modified so that the collector voltage is from 5VSB of the ATX supply and the base drive should be from 5V of the CoCo for it to properly function (I think). -John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. ALmost > all new CPLDs are > no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still around that both input and > output will drive 5 volt TTL > logic. They are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level > translation to > properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. > > just a thought > james > > On 10 Jul 2010 at 3:00, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> Putting the whole thing in a CPLD would be the most flexible method. It >> would allow entire restructuring of the device on the fly. I'll decide >> soon >> as to how to proceed - I'm currently engrossed in the memory upgrade, >> which >> is being problematic (human error, but I shall not give up) >> Thanks All - John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" >> To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:29 AM >> Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? >> >> >> > On 09/07/2010 21:15, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: >> >> Rather than a GAL or discrete logic, have you ever considered using a >> >> small ROM? I've seen one implemented utilizing it as a truth table. >> > >> > The problem with using a Rom or a GAL/PAL is that you need an external >> > programmer to program the logic into them. Programmers for these >> > devices >> > are generally quite expensive. >> > >> > The advantage with a CPLD is that they are generally in circuit >> > programmable with a cable that can be purchased or made relatively >> > cheaply. Also it makes changing the logic much easier. They are >> > generally available in PLCC (such as the Xilinx 9536/9572/95108 and the >> > XL versions) which means they can be socketed and don't then need any >> > surface mount soldering. >> > >> > Just my 2p/2c :) >> > >> > Phill. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2992 - Release Date: 07/09/10 >> 13:36:00 >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2993 - Release Date: 07/10/10 01:36:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 10 19:24:05 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:24:05 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff> <4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. > ALmost all new CPLDs are no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still > around that both input and output will drive 5 volt TTL logic. They > are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level > translation to properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. Whilst I would generally agree with that that expense is partly offset by the fact that once the board is laid out, if you get something wrong you can often fix it without having to throw the board away and start again, the logic can be re-jigged without having to resort to piggy backing chips, or dead cockroaching them :) Programable logic also often makes the board easier to route as some of the routing can happen inside the PLD etc. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From sales at gimechip.com Sat Jul 10 20:41:10 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:41:10 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> Thanks to all for the input, you are definately helping to shape the future of this product and thanks to Jim and Panos for suggesting this project to me. This is one that I should be able to complete relatively quickly. The RAM upgrade on the other hand is giving me fits... I'll get it though, eventually. Mr. Smith, I downloaded some Dragon Nitros9 images that had your name attached to them, so I reckon you must be a Dragon kind of guy, so I was wondering - I read a document regarding the DragonPlus Upgrade Board. Do you know if schematics exist for this or at least a good memory map for me to work from? I think this would be a great project to clone and make available for both Dragons & CoCo 2's. Also, is there a source of schematics of the Dragon Alpha & Beta? These are two machines I would like to start an effort to clone into an FPGA - I don't have the skills to complete such a thing, but I would love to be part of a team that does :-) Thanks All - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > jdaggett at gate.net wrote: >> The CPLD route is not all the panecia that it is cracked up to be. >> ALmost all new CPLDs are no longer 5 volt tolerent. SOme are still >> around that both input and output will drive 5 volt TTL logic. They >> are expensive. Some of the newer less costly CPLDs need level >> translation to properlydrive 5 V TTL loads as well as inputs. > > Whilst I would generally agree with that that expense is partly offset > by the fact that once the board is laid out, if you get something wrong > you can often fix it without having to throw the board away and start > again, the logic can be re-jigged without having to resort to piggy > backing chips, or dead cockroaching them :) > > Programable logic also often makes the board easier to route as some of > the routing can happen inside the PLD etc. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > -- > Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! > > "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2993 - Release Date: 07/10/10 01:36:00 From keeper63 at cox.net Sat Jul 10 21:44:08 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:44:08 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Looking for Datasheet (WD2412PH) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3921E8.3090906@cox.net> All: Its a 28-pin DIP IC made by Western Digital in 1982 (according to the copyright on the chip). I assume that it is some kind of floppy or hard drive controller? I tried googling, have come up with nada so far.. I purchased two today from a local suplus dealer; paid a buck or two, IIRC. I am just interested in finding out what it is, and how to (potentially) use it. Any help would be appreciated - I am going to continue searching on Google... -- Andrew L. Ayers, Glendale, Arizona From keeper63 at cox.net Sat Jul 10 21:52:22 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:52:22 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Looking for Datasheet (WD2412PH) In-Reply-To: <4C3921E8.3090906@cox.net> References: <4C3921E8.3090906@cox.net> Message-ID: <4C3923D6.5080103@cox.net> Hmm - finding that it is some kind of 8-bit Time of Day clock chip? Apparently used on old S-100 bus computer like the IMSAI: IMSAI 8080 Still would like the datasheet for it, as I have an Altair I am restoring - and this might go good with it! Andrew wrote: > All: > > Its a 28-pin DIP IC made by Western Digital in 1982 (according to the > copyright on the chip). I assume that it is some kind of floppy or hard > drive controller? I tried googling, have come up with nada so far.. > > I purchased two today from a local suplus dealer; paid a buck or two, > IIRC. I am just interested in finding out what it is, and how to > (potentially) use it. > > Any help would be appreciated - I am going to continue searching on > Google... > > -- Andrew L. Ayers, Glendale, Arizona > From operator at coco3.com Sun Jul 11 01:38:24 2010 From: operator at coco3.com (Roger Taylor) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:38:24 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100711053821.D5414D4C0E@qs281.pair.com> At 11:06 PM 7/9/2010, you wrote: >Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >Has anyone else had problems? It's RANDOMRODDER.COM -- ~ Roger Taylor From sales at gimechip.com Sun Jul 11 01:46:42 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:46:42 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? References: <20100711053821.D5414D4C0E@qs281.pair.com> Message-ID: <2EA070E920A84A888EA85D0E6CDE4411@hackersafa71ff> Yeah, RamRodder.com doesn't have anything to do with our little CoCo - I just checked - had to take an extra blood pressure pill ;-) -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Taylor" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Who maintains the ramrodder.com coco site? > At 11:06 PM 7/9/2010, you wrote: >>Does anyone know who the Ramrodder coco site belongs to? >>I'm having nothing but problems downloading files from this site. >>Has anyone else had problems? > > > It's RANDOMRODDER.COM > > > -- > ~ Roger Taylor > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2995 - Release Date: 07/10/10 14:59:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 11 03:43:43 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:43:43 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C39762F.5040009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> On 11/07/2010 01:41, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Mr. Smith, Err, that should be Harvey-Smith :) > I downloaded some Dragon Nitros9 images that had your > name attached to them, so I reckon you must be a Dragon kind of guy, > so I was wondering - I read a document regarding the DragonPlus > Upgrade Board. Do you know if schematics exist for this or at least a > good memory map for me to work from? I don't think schematics exist yet, however st some point in the future I will be atempting to repair one so I may be able to do some reverse engineering at that point. I believe that there is a technical document that contains a memory map on the dragon archive site : http://archive.worldofdragon.org/ It's in Downloads -> manuals -> Compusense - DragonPlus.zip > I think this would be a great > project to clone and make available for both Dragons & CoCo 2's. Indeed, though it is only supported under OS-9 and Flex, though it strikes me that it should be possible to write a basic driver for it. > Also, is there a source of schematics of the Dragon Alpha & Beta? Alas no, though as I recently obtained an Alpha I am slowly tracing some of it out. The Alpha is basically a Dragon 64 with an additional PIA, an AY-3-8912 for sound and disk control (drive select/motor), and a WD2797 disk controler. It has 1 or 2 built in 3.25" drives and a n additional 6850 to handle the internal modem. However both machines are emulated in Mess, and where possible when writing the emulation I have tried to provide as much documentation in comments as possible. > These are two machines I would like to start an effort to clone into > an FPGA - I don't have the skills to complete such a thing, but I > would love to be part of a team that does :-) To clone the Alpha you don't really need an FPGA, just a donor machine (a Dragon 32 in my case), which I upgraded to 64K, built addon boards to hold the extra PIA & AY-3-8912, serial port and internal disk interface. Though if there was an existing CoCo 1/2 or Dragon 32/64 implementation it could be based on that. The beta however would be much more involved as it has two 6809s, and is a much more complex machine though again the current coco 3 in fpga could be used as a basis. Cheers. Phill. From sales at gimechip.com Sun Jul 11 03:50:20 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:50:20 -0500 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk><2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> <4C39762F.5040009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <6FEEDF9ED2A7428A8E41B4E44884EF10@hackersafa71ff> Sorry about getting the name wrong :-) So you did the MESS emulations? COOL I just recently tried them and the beta machine would have been marvelous. I imagine they are rare? Thanks for the info. I'm just looking for projects to keep me designing and working away and the Dragon Beta really looks cool. Does one of the CPU's run just the video, or are they both dedicated to processing power? I imagine OS-9 would scream if that's the case. I would love to find one, but I've probably got a better chance at loacting a dodo bird? :-) Thanks - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phill Harvey-Smith" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 2:43 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] MPI replacements? > On 11/07/2010 01:41, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: >> Mr. Smith, > > Err, that should be Harvey-Smith :) > >> I downloaded some Dragon Nitros9 images that had your >> name attached to them, so I reckon you must be a Dragon kind of guy, >> so I was wondering - I read a document regarding the DragonPlus >> Upgrade Board. Do you know if schematics exist for this or at least a >> good memory map for me to work from? > > I don't think schematics exist yet, however st some point in the future > I will be atempting to repair one so I may be able to do some reverse > engineering at that point. I believe that there is a technical document > that contains a memory map on the dragon archive site : > > http://archive.worldofdragon.org/ > > It's in Downloads -> manuals -> Compusense - DragonPlus.zip > >> I think this would be a great >> project to clone and make available for both Dragons & CoCo 2's. > > Indeed, though it is only supported under OS-9 and Flex, though it > strikes me that it should be possible to write a basic driver for it. > >> Also, is there a source of schematics of the Dragon Alpha & Beta? > > Alas no, though as I recently obtained an Alpha I am slowly tracing some > of it out. > > The Alpha is basically a Dragon 64 with an additional PIA, an AY-3-8912 > for sound and disk control (drive select/motor), and a WD2797 disk > controler. It has 1 or 2 built in 3.25" drives and a n additional 6850 > to handle the internal modem. > > However both machines are emulated in Mess, and where possible when > writing the emulation I have tried to provide as much documentation in > comments as possible. > >> These are two machines I would like to start an effort to clone into >> an FPGA - I don't have the skills to complete such a thing, but I >> would love to be part of a team that does :-) > > To clone the Alpha you don't really need an FPGA, just a donor machine > (a Dragon 32 in my case), which I upgraded to 64K, built addon boards to > hold the extra PIA & AY-3-8912, serial port and internal disk interface. > > Though if there was an existing CoCo 1/2 or Dragon 32/64 implementation > it could be based on that. > > The beta however would be much more involved as it has two 6809s, and is > a much more complex machine though again the current coco 3 in fpga > could be used as a basis. > > Cheers. > > Phill. > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2995 - Release Date: 07/10/10 14:59:00 From afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 11 04:25:50 2010 From: afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk (Phill Harvey-Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:25:50 +0100 Subject: [Coco] MPI replacements? In-Reply-To: <6FEEDF9ED2A7428A8E41B4E44884EF10@hackersafa71ff> References: , <7083ADC865BE4052B662B3F9699A8E0E@hackersafa71ff><4C38EB4B.8790.AA305@jdaggett.gate.net> <4C390115.6040006@aurigae.demon.co.uk><2C9EDBB94F2D495E9C4187B8F9B18FDD@hackersafa71ff> <4C39762F.5040009@aurigae.demon.co.uk> <6FEEDF9ED2A7428A8E41B4E44884EF10@hackersafa71ff> Message-ID: <4C39800E.1050305@aurigae.demon.co.uk> Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > Sorry about getting the name wrong :-) No probs :) > So you did the MESS emulations? COOL Indeed. > I just recently tried them and the beta machine would have been > marvelous. I imagine they are rare? Yep, there where IIRC only ever 3 beta machines in existance, the whereabouts of 2 are known, and only one of those is known to be working. > Thanks for the info. I'm just looking for projects to keep me > designing and working away and the Dragon Beta really looks cool. > Does one of the CPU's run just the video, or are they both dedicated > to processing power? I imagine OS-9 would scream if that's the case. One is the main processor and the other is used basically as an I/O controler, drives the disk etc. > I would love to find one, but I've probably got a better chance at > loacting a dodo bird? :-) See comments above :) Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! "You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush. From rcrislip at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 11 23:07:44 2010 From: rcrislip at neo.rr.com (richec) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 23:07:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> On Thursday, July 08, 2010 01:41:43 pm Brian Blake wrote: > Try the direct link. > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar > > I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, > Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would > expect... > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Well that was weird... It's fixed now. > > > > Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns > > the error I sent in the last message. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 07:45:22 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 07:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jul 2010, richec wrote: > On Thursday, July 08, 2010 01:41:43 pm Brian Blake wrote: >> Try the direct link. >> >> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >> >> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >> expect... >> >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>> >>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just returns >>> the error I sent in the last message. > > Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of causing _anything_ to malfunction. -- From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 07:55:30 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 07:55:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: Is it working for you now? On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010, richec wrote: > > On Thursday, July 08, 2010 01:41:43 pm Brian Blake wrote: >> >>> Try the direct link. >>> >>> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>> >>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >>> expect... >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>> >>>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just >>>> returns >>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>> >>> >> Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. >> > > As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of > causing _anything_ to malfunction. > > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 08:17:05 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > Is it working for you now? Why, yes, thanks! Both the direct link and the link embedded in the article are fine now. I'm curious, what was the difference other than changing the file to a *.rar archive? >>>> http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>>> >>>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with Chrome, >>>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one would >>>> expect... >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>>> >>>>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just >>>>> returns >>>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>>> >>>> >>> Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. >>> >> >> As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of >> causing _anything_ to malfunction. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 08:48:14 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:48:14 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Review of CoCoNet/MicroSD DrivePak In-Reply-To: References: <201007112307.44726.rcrislip@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: All I did was delete the file and re-copy it to the server. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: > > Is it working for you now? >> > > Why, yes, thanks! Both the direct link and the link embedded in the > article are fine now. I'm curious, what was the difference other than > changing the file to a *.rar archive? > > > > http://coco.randomrodder.com/downloads/26-3124mpi_upgrade2.rar >>>>> >>>>> I have no idea why it's not working for you. I've tested it with >>>>> Chrome, >>>>> Firefox and Opera, and all 3 can open and download the file as one >>>>> would >>>>> expect... >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Steven Hirsch >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Brian Blake wrote: >>>>>> Well that was weird... It's fixed now. >>>>>> >>>>>> Still not working for me. Whether I click left or right, it just >>>>>> returns >>>>>> the error I sent in the last message. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Hummm... it worked OK with Konquerer too. >>>> >>>> >>> As I've said many times: My personal distortion field is capable of >>> causing _anything_ to malfunction. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Coco mailing list >>> Coco at maltedmedia.com >>> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >>> >>> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From diegoba at adinet.com.uy Mon Jul 12 20:58:44 2010 From: diegoba at adinet.com.uy (Diego Barizo) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:58:44 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> CW Gordon wrote: > Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but is > it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect > the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? > > I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the web. The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either Drivewire or CoCoNet. Diego From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 21:11:46 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:11:46 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Diego Barizo wrote: > CW Gordon wrote: >> >> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but >> is >> it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect >> the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? >> >> > > I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. > No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the web. > The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either > Drivewire or CoCoNet. > It's worth clarifying that neither DW or Coconet will allow one to "browse the internet". DW provides telnet, smtp, a web *server* (not a browser), direct TCP access for outbound and incoming connections, and virtual modems over TCP. A couple IRC clients are in the works but not ready at this point, and I've got a twitter client I keep meaning to finish. Both CocoNet and DW also provide a mechanism for downloading content from URLs, but this is only a way to retrieve some bytes. Quite useful for mounting remote disk images or pulling files across the network onto a local disk, but we are talking about transferring bytes, not rendering their contents. While it would certainly be possible to write a web browser using DriveWire's TCP mechanisms, simply getting the content to the coco is trivial compared to rendering it in any meaningful way. I am not aware of any projects attempting to do this, and not sure it would ever make sense anyway. Considering the limitations of the CoCo's graphics modes and memory space, implementing a web browser might be a fun project but it's never going to be something you'd really want to use :) On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be done quite well on the CoCo. The IRC clients I've seen in development look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as modern clients on modern PCs. -Aaron > Diego > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From random.rodder at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 22:42:30 2010 From: random.rodder at gmail.com (Brian Blake) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:42:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: And let's not forget internet BBS'ing!!! On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Diego Barizo > wrote: > > CW Gordon wrote: > >> > >> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, > but > >> is > >> it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I > connect > >> the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? > >> > >> > > > > I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. > > No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the > web. > > The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either > > Drivewire or CoCoNet. > > > > It's worth clarifying that neither DW or Coconet will allow one to > "browse the internet". DW provides telnet, smtp, a web *server* (not > a browser), direct TCP access for outbound and incoming connections, > and virtual modems over TCP. A couple IRC clients are in the works > but not ready at this point, and I've got a twitter client I keep > meaning to finish. Both CocoNet and DW also provide a mechanism for > downloading content from URLs, but this is only a way to retrieve some > bytes. Quite useful for mounting remote disk images or pulling files > across the network onto a local disk, but we are talking about > transferring bytes, not rendering their contents. > > While it would certainly be possible to write a web browser using > DriveWire's TCP mechanisms, simply getting the content to the coco is > trivial compared to rendering it in any meaningful way. I am not > aware of any projects attempting to do this, and not sure it would > ever make sense anyway. Considering the limitations of the CoCo's > graphics modes and memory space, implementing a web browser might be a > fun project but it's never going to be something you'd really want to > use :) On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be > done quite well on the CoCo. The IRC clients I've seen in development > look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as > modern clients on modern PCs. > > -Aaron > > > > Diego > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 00:53:43 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:53:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] yet another drivewire4 beta version Message-ID: Available here: http://sites.google.com/site/drivewire4/beta This version improves MIDI performance quite a bit. You can play simple files directly off a DW disk and back out the bitbanger as MIDI. More complex songs (pretty much any cmf0 file) will still require that the file is on a local disk or in memory to play well. I've tweaked the synthesizer translation profiles to help songs arranged for the Yamaha PSS480 and a couple Casios sound better when played on GM devices, and you can switch profiles in real time now, no need to restart the song to catch the initial instrument assignments. A nice side effect of the performance changes are that latency in telnet and internet BBSing is reduced as well. I've also switched the disk cache to use a dynamic array, so memory use should be much improved and loading larger disk images is possible. I've added memory usage information to the "dw s s" command so you can get an idea of how much we're using. If you need more than your platform provides by default, you can allocate additional ram to the DW server on the command line as so: java -Xmx512m -jar DriveWire.jar This would grant 512MB to DriveWire. the default is 256MB on most systems, although its only 128MB on my debian linux dev box. There are a few other little improvements here and there. As always, just let me know if it blows up your computer or causes hair loss. -Aaron From snhirsch at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 07:48:55 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:48:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be > done quite well on the CoCo. The IRC clients I've seen in development > look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as > modern clients on modern PCs. Indeed. There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. Perhaps the IP stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? -- From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 08:09:06 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:09:06 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be >> done quite well on the CoCo. ?The IRC clients I've seen in development >> look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as >> modern clients on modern PCs. > > Indeed. ?There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. > One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. ?Perhaps the IP > stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? > It's a possibility. There was an effort to port contiki to the CoCo but it seems to have been abandoned. Personally, I never saw contiki on coco as all that interesting, since it is a completely different OS. I'm more interested in bringing TCP/IP to our native OS9. From what I've seen, a native OS9 IP stack may not be the best way to do this. Allowing the CoCo to control an external IP stack, whether that is located in a rompak or on another PC, seems to be more practical. That's the direction I'm going in new projects for now. > > > -- > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From skwirl42 at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 11:34:11 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:34:11 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> Indeed. ?There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. >> One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. ?Perhaps the IP >> stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? > It's a possibility. ?There was an effort to port contiki to the CoCo > but it seems to have been abandoned. Yep, it is. Mainly due to my lack of hardware expertise. 6809 assembler would be a bad idea, IMHO. It's in C, there are C compilers out there, it's just a matter of someone getting some ethernet or other hardware going with a driver for the uIP stack. > Personally, I never saw contiki on coco as all that interesting, since > it is a completely different OS. ?I'm more interested in bringing > TCP/IP to our native OS9. ?From what I've seen, a native OS9 IP stack > may not be the best way to do this. uIP is the TCP/IP stack that Contiki runs with. Porting it to OS9, with some sort of IPC communication for client applications, would not be hard. The stack, ethernet card driver and a very simple http server fit in 8K of code and data. This is on an ATmega8 chip, which I've tested myself. The ethernet hardware I was using has a very large address space that I had been hoping to reduce for use on the CoCo. However, there are SPI-based ethernet chips now, like the one used in this Instructable: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-credit-card-sized-Ethernet-Arduino-compatable-co/ The chip is also pretty cheap, at under $5 Canadian, on Digikey. Others have written SPI code for the CoCo, so adapting that to interface with the ethernet hardware would be the easiest route. Main problem is the level conversion, since the chip runs off a 3V supply. I won't be doing it, so I leave it as an exercise to the reader. > Allowing the CoCo to control an external IP stack, whether that is > located in a rompak or on another PC, seems to be > more practical. ?That's the direction I'm going in new projects for now. Practical in terms of implementation, but as I see it uninteresting. When a modern computer or mcu has to handle the IP stack already, why bother putting it through the CoCo? -- James Dessart From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 11:55:43 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:55:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:34 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >>> Indeed. ?There are several good examples floating around for the Apple 2. >>> One of them, Contiki, is available with full source code. ?Perhaps the IP >>> stack can be lifted and translated to 6809 assembler? >> It's a possibility. ?There was an effort to port contiki to the CoCo >> but it seems to have been abandoned. > > Yep, it is. Mainly due to my lack of hardware expertise. 6809 > assembler would be a bad idea, IMHO. It's in C, there are C compilers > out there, it's just a matter of someone getting some ethernet or > other hardware going with a driver for the uIP stack. > >> Personally, I never saw contiki on coco as all that interesting, since >> it is a completely different OS. ?I'm more interested in bringing >> TCP/IP to our native OS9. ?From what I've seen, a native OS9 IP stack >> may not be the best way to do this. > > uIP is the TCP/IP stack that Contiki runs with. Porting it to OS9, > with some sort of IPC communication for client applications, would not > be hard. > > The stack, ethernet card driver and a very simple http server fit in > 8K of code and data. This is on an ATmega8 chip, which I've tested > myself. The ethernet hardware I was using has a very large address > space that I had been hoping to reduce for use on the CoCo. However, > there are SPI-based ethernet chips now, like the one used in this > Instructable: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-credit-card-sized-Ethernet-Arduino-compatable-co/ > > The chip is also pretty cheap, at under $5 Canadian, on Digikey. > Others have written SPI code for the CoCo, so adapting that to > interface with the ethernet hardware would be the easiest route. Main > problem is the level conversion, since the chip runs off a 3V supply. > > I won't be doing it, so I leave it as an exercise to the reader. > >> Allowing the CoCo to control an external IP stack, whether that is >> located in a rompak or on another PC, seems to be >> more practical. ?That's the direction I'm going in new projects for now. > > Practical in terms of implementation, but as I see it uninteresting. > When a modern computer or mcu has to handle the IP stack already, why > bother putting it through the CoCo? > I suppose it just depends on whether your interest is in the IP stack itself, or in using TCP/IP to do things. I can see how writing or porting an existing IP stack to the coco would be an interesting project, but to an end user who wants to "do internet stuff" or to an application programmer who wants to "write internet stuff", whether the stack is implemented in the 6809 or in a $5 chip in their network hardware makes little difference. I'm sort of lazy, and not particularly interested in the stack itself, so using an existing implementation is what I prefer. I do plan on attempting at least to make any interface I use very hardware agnostic. This should also mean that it would be possible to use any user space tools or applications written for an external IP stack just as easily with an internal one, if such a thing is created. Ideally, we can be compatible with both approaches and a wide variety of solutions. > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com Tue Jul 13 12:56:42 2010 From: daveekelly1 at embarqmail.com (Dave Kelly) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:56:42 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: <4C3C9ACA.6010500@embarqmail.com> I have a book, "Linux IP Stacks". Published in November of 1999 by CoriolisOpen Press. It has 42752 lines of C code, nearly 450 pages. Also 130 pages of commentary. I have 'tarred' the CD and can upload it if someone thinks it might be useful for this project. If the code looks useful, I can send the book to someone to scan in the commentary and post. Dave ps: Where can I upload a file this size? -rw-r--r-- 1 dave dave 55372745 2010-07-13 10:36 IPStack.tar From badfrog at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 14:54:47 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:54:47 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: One could always telnet to a linux/unix machine, and then use the Lynx text only browser. (But probably not what the original poster wanted) On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Diego Barizo wrote: >> CW Gordon wrote: >>> >>> Please excuse me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before, but >>> is >>> it possible to browse the internet with the Coco, and if so, can I connect >>> the RS-232 Pak to a cable modem to accomplish this? >>> >>> >> >> I don't see any answers (I might have deleted them), so I'll jump in. >> No, you can not connect a RS-232 pack to a modern modem and browse the web. >> The only practical way to do it, is using a PC as a tool, with either >> Drivewire or CoCoNet. >> > > It's worth clarifying that neither DW or Coconet will allow one to > "browse the internet". ?DW provides telnet, smtp, a web *server* (not > a browser), direct TCP access for outbound and incoming connections, > and virtual modems over TCP. ?A couple IRC clients are in the works > but not ready at this point, and I've got a twitter client I keep > meaning to finish. ?Both CocoNet and DW also provide a mechanism for > downloading content from URLs, but this is only a way to retrieve some > bytes. ?Quite useful for mounting remote disk images or pulling files > across the network onto a local disk, but we are talking about > transferring bytes, not rendering their contents. > > While it would certainly be possible to write a web browser using > DriveWire's TCP mechanisms, simply getting the content to the coco is > trivial compared to rendering it in any meaningful way. ?I am not > aware of any projects attempting to do this, and not sure it would > ever make sense anyway. ?Considering the limitations of the CoCo's > graphics modes and memory space, implementing a web browser might be a > fun project but it's never going to be something you'd really want to > use :) ?On the other hand, things like telnet, ftp, IRC, etc can be > done quite well on the CoCo. ?The IRC clients I've seen in development > look like first class applications that are every bit as usable as > modern clients on modern PCs. > > -Aaron > > >> Diego >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From msmcdoug at iinet.net.au Wed Jul 14 05:09:06 2010 From: msmcdoug at iinet.net.au (Mark McDougall) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:09:06 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: <4C3C9ACA.6010500@embarqmail.com> References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> <4C3C9ACA.6010500@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <4C3D7EB2.9000602@iinet.net.au> Dave Kelly wrote: > I have a book, "Linux IP Stacks". Published in November of 1999 by > CoriolisOpen Press. > It has 42752 lines of C code, nearly 450 pages. Also 130 pages of > commentary. > I have 'tarred' the CD and can upload it if someone thinks it might be > useful for this project. If the code looks useful, I can send the book > to someone to scan in the commentary and post. There much smaller IP stacks available. Regards, -- | Mark McDougall | "Electrical Engineers do it | | with less resistance!" From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 08:55:13 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:55:13 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I suppose it just depends on whether your interest is in the IP stack > itself, or in using TCP/IP to do things. My interest is in having the CoCo operate independently of any other processor. I'm not sure what use a twitter client for the CoCo is, apart from the cool factor, but having it running off an IP stack on the CoCo itself is even cooler. Maybe if I get the motivation and can fit my CoCo into my next apartment I'll work on that. An SPI-based driver would be much easier to program than trying to fold a 32-byte address space into something reasonable for a CoCo with other cards, and much simpler, hardware-wise. > I can see how writing or porting an existing IP stack to the coco > would be an interesting project, but to an > end user who wants to "do internet stuff" or to an application > programmer who wants to "write internet stuff", > whether the stack is implemented in the 6809 or in a $5 chip in their > network hardware makes little difference. The chips that implement an actual TCP/IP stack are more expensive than that. The $5 chip I was talking about is just a plain, old ethernet chip, just like you would find in a network card on a PC. -- James Dessart From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:25:40 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:25:40 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 8:55 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > >> I suppose it just depends on whether your interest is in the IP stack >> itself, or in using TCP/IP to do things. > > My interest is in having the CoCo operate independently of any other > processor. I'm not sure what use a twitter client for the CoCo is, > apart from the cool factor, but having it running off an IP stack on > the CoCo itself is even cooler. Maybe if I get the motivation and can > fit my CoCo into my next apartment I'll work on that. An SPI-based > driver would be much easier to program than trying to fold a 32-byte > address space into something reasonable for a CoCo with other cards, > and much simpler, hardware-wise. > you write it, I'll use it :) >> I can see how writing or porting an existing IP stack to the coco >> would be an interesting project, but to an >> end user who wants to "do internet stuff" or to an application >> programmer who wants to "write internet stuff", >> whether the stack is implemented in the 6809 or in a $5 chip in their >> network hardware makes little difference. > > The chips that implement an actual TCP/IP stack are more expensive > than that. The $5 chip I was talking about is just a plain, old > ethernet chip, just like you would find in a network card on a PC. > Actually IP on a chip can be found in the $5 range. I wasn't referring to the chip you mentioned. In the past couple months I've looked at one TCP/IP stack w/ SPI for $4 in single quantity, and an 802.11 module that includes TCP/IP for free. > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:34:08 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:34:08 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:55 PM, James Dessart wrote: > An SPI-based driver would be much easier to program than trying to fold a > 32-byte > address space into something reasonable for a CoCo with other cards, > and much simpler, hardware-wise. > > To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet controller , a 'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be relatively slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able to multitask as nicely as possible. If you are developing say a CPLD solution that looked similar to a motorola SPI microcontroller interface using 3 address locations that eases processor burden , (even better if you implemented something like QSPI) then cool , but you're moving away from 'simple' in that respect. > The chips that implement an actual TCP/IP stack are more expensive > than that. You still use the $5 chip , add a $3 PIC that will talk to it and compile the free tcp/ip stack microchip offers for there range of microcontrollers. Add a $4-5 6551 or (16450) , some decode logic and link this to your PIC . I dont think the price difference between this solution and your CPLD solution is going to set you broke. You send serial commands to the 6551 , which are interpreted by you PIC , these commands are high level and take advantage of the tcp/ip implementation on the PIC. Yes it's cool to do it all at a lower level but I wonder how realistic it would be to implement considering the constraints you are working with ? My experience is that you really do need a fair chuck of memory to implement a 'decent' stack and applications , i'm not sure how this would all fit under OS/9 for example , others might like to comment. > The $5 chip I was talking about is just a plain, old > ethernet chip, just like you would find in a network card on a PC. > > You mentioned a SPI driver ,so I assumed you were talking about using a enc28j60, PC ethernet chips are generally bus based so i'm confused , wasn't that your 32 byte memory problem ? From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 10:52:35 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:52:35 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:34 AM, coco wal wrote: > To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet > controller , a ?'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be relatively > slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a > coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a > 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able to > multitask as ?nicely as possible. Good point. The SPI driver would be for the enc28j60, yes. The one with the 32 byte address space is the RTL8019, which I have on a bread-board compatible module. There's a uIP driver for it on the ATmega series, which is why I had chosen it. But with the CoCo's small IO space, 32 bytes is a lot. So some sort of logic would have to be introduced to choose which address in that space through some sort of register. While I have an idea of how to do that, and could probably sketch out a basic block diagram, I have no idea how to properly implement that design physically as a card for the CoCo. -- James Dessart From curtisboyle at sasktel.net Wed Jul 14 11:01:03 2010 From: curtisboyle at sasktel.net (L. Curtis Boyle) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:01:03 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: Would you need to map the entire 32 bytes into the Coco's I/O at once? Or could you have a buffer (similar to no-halt disk controllers), that you map into 1 (or 2) bytes, and "stream-read" off of to collect (or write) the buffer contents? I still like the way the Elimimator controller from FHL worked... it latched into 2 consecutive memory locations, but presented the same byte on both, until a read started. That way, you could use TFM on a 6309 on one memory location for maximum speed, or do a LDD from 2 consecutive memory locations on a 6809, for maximum speed on that chip. On Jul 14, 2010, at 8:52 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:34 AM, coco wal wrote: > >> To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet >> controller , a 'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be relatively >> slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a >> coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a >> 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able to >> multitask as nicely as possible. > > Good point. > > The SPI driver would be for the enc28j60, yes. The one with the 32 > byte address space is the RTL8019, which I have on a bread-board > compatible module. There's a uIP driver for it on the ATmega series, > which is why I had chosen it. But with the CoCo's small IO space, 32 > bytes is a lot. So some sort of logic would have to be introduced to > choose which address in that space through some sort of register. > While I have an idea of how to do that, and could probably sketch out > a basic block diagram, I have no idea how to properly implement that > design physically as a card for the CoCo. > > -- > James Dessart > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:06:50 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:06:50 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 12:52 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:34 AM, coco wal wrote: > > > To some extent , you still need to bit bang your spi data to the ethernet > > controller , a 'much simpler, hardware-wise' solution might be > relatively > > slow and taxing processor wise how exactly did you plan on implementing a > > coco bus to spi interface ? I assume you would like your packet data on a > > 10Mb/s connection at a reasonable rate , and if under os/9 , being able > to > > multitask as nicely as possible. > > Good point. > > The SPI driver would be for the enc28j60, yes. The one with the 32 > byte address space is the RTL8019, which I have on a bread-board > compatible module. There's a uIP driver for it on the ATmega series, > which is why I had chosen it. But with the CoCo's small IO space, 32 > bytes is a lot. So some sort of logic would have to be introduced to > choose which address in that space through some sort of register. > While I have an idea of how to do that, and could probably sketch out > a basic block diagram, I have no idea how to properly implement that > design physically as a card for the CoCo. > > James , one idea which might be worth trying instead of bit banging or using a serial link to a microcontroller might be to do something similar to the way the SSC talks to its internal microcontroller. You could say setup some decoded latches , one for write data , one for read data and another for status . This could connect to a larger pinned atmel / microchip and form a pseudo bus interface . You have extra overhead when reading and writing since you need to check when the slave microcontroller has received data or is read to send , but i think it would still be faster then bit banging a few latches to implement SPI. I have used the uIP on a 8K atmel in the past , it worked fine , just didnt have the enough space to implement all that i wanted , but thats just an processor selection issue. And i didnt mean to sound discouraging in my previous email , I would love to see what you are suggesting implemented , just playing devils advocate on the issues you may face. From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:09:40 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:09:40 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:01 AM, L. Curtis Boyle wrote: > Would you need to map the entire 32 bytes into the Coco's I/O at once? Or > could you have a buffer (similar to no-halt disk controllers), that you map > into 1 (or 2) bytes, and "stream-read" off of to collect (or write) the > buffer contents? I still like the way the Elimimator controller from FHL > worked... it latched into 2 consecutive memory locations, but presented the > same byte on both, until a read started. That way, you could use TFM on a > 6309 on one memory location for maximum speed, or do a LDD from 2 > consecutive memory locations on a 6809, for maximum speed on that chip. > > Thats an excellent solution , its implementation would be a great project for many modern devices that we could interface to the coco , the memory address space limitation we face really is a PITA. From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:18:14 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:18:14 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:09 PM, coco wal wrote: >> Would you need to map the entire 32 bytes into the Coco's I/O at once? Or >> could you have a buffer (similar to no-halt disk controllers), that you map >> into 1 (or 2) bytes, and "stream-read" off of to collect (or write) the >> buffer contents? I still like the way the Elimimator controller from FHL >> worked... it latched into 2 consecutive memory locations, but presented the >> same byte on both, until a read started. That way, you could use TFM on a >> 6309 on one memory location for maximum speed, or do a LDD from 2 >> consecutive memory locations on a 6809, for maximum speed on that chip. >> >> Thats an excellent solution , its implementation ?would be a great project > for many modern devices that we could interface to the coco , the memory > address space limitation we face really is a PITA. The actual data coming and going from the controller is only 2 bytes of the entire space. There are 16 bytes for data and 16 bytes of registers, I believe. The idea would be to have one latch to select which byte to address and the other to access the actual byte. -- James Dessart From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:24:24 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 01:24:24 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:18 AM, James Dessart wrote: > > The actual data coming and going from the controller is only 2 bytes > of the entire space. There are 16 bytes for data and 16 bytes of > registers, I believe. The idea would be to have one latch to select > which byte to address and the other to access the actual byte. > > Thats not too bad , so your down to 4 maybe 6 address bytes for a bussed Ethernet controller ? Using the indirect approach that you mentioned would still be much more efficient then a talking to a SPI Ethernet controller . Again this is all academic , i think you would struggle to keep up with the network data no matter what interface was implemented :) From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:42:18 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:42:18 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, coco wal wrote: > Thats not too bad , so your down to 4 maybe 6 address bytes for a > bussed Ethernet controller ? Using the indirect approach that you mentioned > would still be much more efficient then a talking to a > SPI Ethernet controller . Again this is all academic , i think you would > struggle to keep up with the network data no matter what interface was > implemented :) The C64 can handle it, apparently. That's the system Contiki was originally designed for. -- James Dessart From cocowal6809 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:04:43 2010 From: cocowal6809 at gmail.com (coco wal) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 02:04:43 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:42 AM, James Dessart wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, coco wal wrote: > > > Thats not too bad , so your down to 4 maybe 6 address bytes for a > > bussed Ethernet controller ? Using the indirect approach that you > mentioned > > would still be much more efficient then a talking to a > > SPI Ethernet controller . Again this is all academic , i think you would > > struggle to keep up with the network data no matter what interface was > > implemented :) > > The C64 can handle it, apparently. That's the system Contiki was > originally designed for. > . > . Sorry my reply was badly worded , I have no doubt it would work and be usable , what i meant was not sure that you could use the full bandwidth available on the network given the interfacing solutions proposed. If you could DMA the data in rather then having to play with latches to decode status registers etc it would be kinda cool. From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:11:19 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:11:19 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines Message-ID: Hi! Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? Thank you! _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From skwirl42 at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:25:39 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:25:39 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Internet via Coco In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1c66$4c097040$e41c50c0$@rr.com> <4C3BBA44.3020409@adinet.com.uy> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:04 PM, coco wal wrote: > Sorry my reply was badly worded , I have no doubt it would work and be > usable , ?what i meant was not sure that you could use the full bandwidth > available on the network given the interfacing solutions proposed. If you > could DMA the data in rather then having to play with latches to decode > status registers etc it would be kinda cool. Yeah, there'd be no way to use the full bandwidth. The CoCo just can't handle that much data, even if it were just reading it from RAM. -- James Dessart From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 14 12:19:18 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:19:18 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines References: Message-ID: You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then use the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ etc. Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and DLOAD only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - executing DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you store a 0 at address 113). Color BASIC Unravelled should provide you with most of the details if you examine the code for DLOAD. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:11 AM Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines > > Hi! > > > > Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's > subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? > > > > > > Thank you! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3004 - Release Date: 07/14/10 01:36:00 From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 14 12:20:35 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:20:35 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines Message-ID: <28C311B803084FD7B0DCECA9AB1BF2FD@hackersafa71ff> that should have said LINE INPUT #-3,A$ :-) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Little John (GIMEchip.com)" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] dload subroutines > You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then use > the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ > etc. Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and > DLOAD only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - > executing DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you > store a 0 at address 113). > > Color BASIC Unravelled should provide you with most of the details if you > examine the code for DLOAD. > -John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:11 AM > Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines > > >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >> Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's >> subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thank you! >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >> https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3004 - Release Date: 07/14/10 > 01:36:00 > From mechacoco at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 15:12:58 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:12:58 -0600 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/14/10, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then use > the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ etc. > Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and DLOAD > only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - executing > DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you store a 0 at > address 113). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" >> >> Hi! >> >> Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's >> subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? >> --- The OPEN statement does not accept -3 as a device number. It will issue a ?DN ERROR. The subroutine at 36284 ($8DBC) is available on all CoCos with Extended Basic, including the CoCo 3. It attempts to read a single byte from the serial port. If successful, the byte is returned in A and the Z flag will be set. There are two variables in low RAM that affect its operation: DLBAUD $00E6 (230) Contains the delay value for the bit rate (176 = 300 bps; 44 = 1200 bps). TIMOUT $00E7 (231) Indicates how long to wait for the byte before timing out (in increments of roughly 2 seconds). On the CoCo 3, these locations have been reused as HRMODE and HRWIDTH. You will need to save, setup and restore these locations around calls to $8DBC. Darren From sales at gimechip.com Wed Jul 14 15:51:17 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:51:17 -0500 Subject: [Coco] dload subroutines References: Message-ID: <40BC5841F0F9427590817423B8F19D63@hackersafa71ff> That's what I get for stopping reading at page 13 - 13 is an unlucky number :-) I was just looking at page 13 of the color basic unravelled - it made it seem as if it were a standard I/O function using CHRINP or console in. alas, it wasn't.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren A" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] dload subroutines > On 7/14/10, Little John (GIMEchip.com) wrote: > >> You could use the OPEN command to open a #-3 file which is DLOAD. Then >> use >> the standard file access commands to talk to it like LINE INPUT #-2,A$ >> etc. >> Then after your done CLOSE #-3. I don't know how reliable this is and >> DLOAD >> only exists on the CoCo 1 and 2 - it was removed from the CoCo 3 - >> executing >> DLOAD on the coco3 performs a warmstart (or coldstart if you store a 0 at >> address 113). >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra" >>> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Do you know of any parameters that need to be set to call ROM's >>> subroutines 36284 (DLOAD) and 40962 and which data is returned? >>> > > --- > > The OPEN statement does not accept -3 as a device number. It will > issue a ?DN ERROR. > > The subroutine at 36284 ($8DBC) is available on all CoCos with > Extended Basic, including the CoCo 3. It attempts to read a single > byte from the serial port. If successful, the byte is returned in A > and the Z flag will be set. There are two variables in low RAM that > affect its operation: > > DLBAUD $00E6 (230) > Contains the delay value for the bit rate (176 = 300 bps; 44 = 1200 bps). > > TIMOUT $00E7 (231) > Indicates how long to wait for the byte before timing out (in > increments of roughly 2 seconds). > > On the CoCo 3, these locations have been reused as HRMODE and HRWIDTH. > You will need to save, setup and restore these locations around calls > to $8DBC. > > Darren > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3004 - Release Date: 07/14/10 01:36:00 From devries.bob at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 20:09:09 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:09:09 +1000 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions Message-ID: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> [dons flame proof jacket] While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector sizes. This would make it usable with other computers, provided that client-side drivers could be written for those computers. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia -- Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of one's native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer. Edsger W.Dijkstra, 18 June 1975 From snhirsch at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 21:41:27 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > [dons flame proof jacket] > > While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written > exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more > versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector > sizes. > > This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > client-side drivers could be written for those computers. I was thinking about what it would take to network an Apple IIe from DW. The common super-serial card can do 57.6 k baud for sure and perhaps 115. The IIGS should be capable of 230, since native localtalk transport operates at that speed. Something tells me that the game port on a IIe can be bit-banged considerably faster, but it's been a while. I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in the clientside driver. Steve -- From devries.bob at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 21:54:57 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:54:57 +1000 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> As I understand it from reading the documents, the drivewire server currently only grabs 256 bytes when it is asked to get a sector. If the disk image is supposed to be based on 1024 byte sectors, then the server would need some kind of setting to select the sector size, or the client side would need to tell the server what size sectors it is expecting. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Hirsch To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] drivewire suggestions On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > [dons flame proof jacket] > > While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written > exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more > versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector > sizes. > > This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > client-side drivers could be written for those computers. I was thinking about what it would take to network an Apple IIe from DW. The common super-serial card can do 57.6 k baud for sure and perhaps 115. The IIGS should be capable of 230, since native localtalk transport operates at that speed. Something tells me that the game port on a IIe can be bit-banged considerably faster, but it's been a while. I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in the clientside driver. Steve -- -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 22:41:01 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:41:01 -0400 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: There is really nothing CoCo centric in the DriveWire protocol for disks. The virtual serial portion does include a few OS9 specific features, such as tracking some escape character settings in the SCF driver and sending notifications of closed network connections that are in turn used to send OS9 signals, but these do not have to be used at all, or they could be used in another way on another platform quite easily. Changing the DriveWire 4 code to use a sector size other than 256 bytes is trivial. I'll add a setting for sector size in the next release. As long as requests can be translated into a linear set of logical sectors, and the total # of sectors will fit in 24 bits, I would not expect any problems. If someone creates a platform side interface for another system, I'll make sure DriveWire supports it. -Aaron On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Bob Devries wrote: > As I understand it from reading the documents, the drivewire server currently only grabs 256 bytes when it is asked to get a sector. If the disk image is supposed to be based on 1024 byte sectors, then the server would need some kind of setting to select the sector size, or the client side would need to tell the server what size sectors it is expecting. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Steven Hirsch > ?To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > ?Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:41 AM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] drivewire suggestions > > > ?On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > > ?> [dons flame proof jacket] > ?> > ?> While I understand that the drivewire server was originally written > ?> exclusively for the Coco, it seems to me that it could be made more > ?> versatile if it were capable of handling disk images of various sector > ?> sizes. > ?> > ?> This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > ?> client-side drivers could be written for those computers. > > ?I was thinking about what it would take to network an Apple IIe from DW. > ?The common super-serial card can do 57.6 k baud for sure and perhaps 115. > ?The IIGS should be capable of 230, since native localtalk transport > ?operates at that speed. > > ?Something tells me that the game port on a IIe can be bit-banged > ?considerably faster, but it's been a while. > > ?I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in > ?the clientside driver. > > ?Steve > > > > > ?-- > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 16 07:34:17 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:34:17 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:09:09AM +1000, Bob Devries wrote: > > This would make it usable with other computers, provided that > client-side drivers could be written for those computers. A lot (most?) of the other 8-bit machines already have software to treat a PC as a disk drive. ADAMServe and x1541 come to mind. I know the FLEX people have a solution but I forgot what it was called. It wouldn't surprise me if the Atari & Apple II set have something similar, as well. Heck, even some of the weird old HP computers can do it. Is there some particular computer you'd like DriveWire to support? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From snhirsch at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 07:48:02 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <005e01cb2489$edad53f0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Bob Devries wrote: > As I understand it from reading the documents, the drivewire server > currently only grabs 256 bytes when it is asked to get a sector. If the > disk image is supposed to be based on 1024 byte sectors, then the server > would need some kind of setting to select the sector size, or the client > side would need to tell the server what size sectors it is expecting. That's essentially what I meant by deblocking, although to be accurate it should be termed "blocking" when multiplying :-). > I think the sector size issue can be worked around with deblocking code in > the clientside driver. -- From snhirsch at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 07:51:48 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:09:09AM +1000, Bob Devries wrote: >> >> This would make it usable with other computers, provided that >> client-side drivers could be written for those computers. > > A lot (most?) of the other 8-bit machines already have software to > treat a PC as a disk drive. ADAMServe and x1541 come to mind. I know > the FLEX people have a solution but I forgot what it was called. It > wouldn't surprise me if the Atari & Apple II set have something > similar, as well. Atari 8-bit machines have SIO2PC. There is less motivation to develop a new scheme for Apple II, since Appletalk client capability is built in to the IIGS and available for older models through a peripheral card. But, for machines like the //c it would be great to have DW support. That machine has no bus slots or expansion connector. Steve -- From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 16 18:50:57 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:50:57 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 07:51:48AM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: > > Atari 8-bit machines have SIO2PC. There is less motivation to develop a > new scheme for Apple II, since Appletalk client capability is built in to > the IIGS and available for older models through a peripheral card. I figured the Atari 8-bit machines would have something, since they all hooked up external floppies via a serial port, and I knew the IIGS had Appletalk. I didn't know there was a localtalk card for the other Apple IIs, though. That's pretty cool! > > But, for machines like the //c it would be great to have DW support. That > machine has no bus slots or expansion connector. Does it have an RS-232 port? Or at least some sort of semi-standard I/O port? I'm not familiar with the Apple IIs. Is the OS hackable enough to add a DW client to? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From snhirsch at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 22:35:44 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 07:51:48AM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> >> Atari 8-bit machines have SIO2PC. There is less motivation to develop a >> new scheme for Apple II, since Appletalk client capability is built in to >> the IIGS and available for older models through a peripheral card. > > I figured the Atari 8-bit machines would have something, since they > all hooked up external floppies via a serial port, and I knew the IIGS > had Appletalk. I didn't know there was a localtalk card for the other > Apple IIs, though. That's pretty cool! Yes, it's really terrific. I was responsible for adding support for so-called "short name" AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) to the open source netatalk package. That let's you provide file services from any Linux box. I can net-boot my IIe and IIGS directly from my server. >> But, for machines like the //c it would be great to have DW support. That >> machine has no bus slots or expansion connector. > > Does it have an RS-232 port? Or at least some sort of semi-standard > I/O port? I'm not familiar with the Apple IIs. Is the OS hackable > enough to add a DW client to? The IIc has RS232 and game ports. I strongly suspect that bit-banging the game port will be faster than the built-in UART. I might take a look at the CoCo bit-banger code to see if it can be ported to 6502 assembler. Support for booting an Apple 2 from DW would require an add-on card with ROM, but writing a loadable file system driver for ProDOS (8-bit) or GS/OS (16-bit) shouldn't be too difficult. Steve -- From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sat Jul 17 02:51:46 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 00:51:46 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:35:44PM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: > Yes, it's really terrific. I was responsible for adding support for > so-called "short name" AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) to the open source > netatalk package. That let's you provide file services from any Linux > box. I can net-boot my IIe and IIGS directly from my server. That's pretty cool. I've never done classic Mac network setup, though I have used Macs being served by netatalk. If I can ever get an ethernet card for my Performa, I'll be jumping in with both feet. > The IIc has RS232 and game ports. I strongly suspect that bit-banging the > game port will be faster than the built-in UART. I might take a look at > the CoCo bit-banger code to see if it can be ported to 6502 assembler. My, that's a pretty flexible joystick port! > > Support for booting an Apple 2 from DW would require an add-on card with > ROM, but writing a loadable file system driver for ProDOS (8-bit) or GS/OS > (16-bit) shouldn't be too difficult. Well, the IIC does have a built-in floppy drive, so that should be good enough, as long as you have a boot disk and the drive works! The only other issue with DW supporting the Apple II series is the virtual disk images. Is there any special weirdness in AppleII virtual disks, or are they just sector dumps? Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From snhirsch at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 08:33:30 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 08:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:35:44PM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> Yes, it's really terrific. I was responsible for adding support for >> so-called "short name" AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) to the open source >> netatalk package. That let's you provide file services from any Linux >> box. I can net-boot my IIe and IIGS directly from my server. > > That's pretty cool. I've never done classic Mac network setup, though > I have used Macs being served by netatalk. If I can ever get an > ethernet card for my Performa, I'll be jumping in with both feet. Are you sure your Performa doesn't have ethernet built-in? On some of the earlier models they had a "mini AUI" connector on the rear panel. A number of companies made adapters to convert this to RJ45. You also have the alternative of a localtalk<-->ethernet bridge, which is what you'd need anyway for a IIGS or IIe w/ workstation card (there was an Apple 2 ethernet card, but it's rarer than hen's teeth). Macs (and the IIGS) used a Zilog SCC serial chip and spoke localtalk from the printer and/or modem ports. BTW, the "short name" support I added was specifically for Apple 2 ProDOS and GS/OS. Netatalk supported MacOS from the start - that's why it was written. >> The IIc has RS232 and game ports. I strongly suspect that bit-banging the >> game port will be faster than the built-in UART. I might take a look at >> the CoCo bit-banger code to see if it can be ported to 6502 assembler. > > My, that's a pretty flexible joystick port! >> >> Support for booting an Apple 2 from DW would require an add-on card with >> ROM, but writing a loadable file system driver for ProDOS (8-bit) or GS/OS >> (16-bit) shouldn't be too difficult. > > Well, the IIC does have a built-in floppy drive, so that should be good > enough, as long as you have a boot disk and the drive works! > > The only other issue with DW supporting the Apple II series is the > virtual disk images. Is there any special weirdness in AppleII > virtual disks, or are they just sector dumps? There are many flavors of Apple disk images. Most are sector dumps. The low-level nibble dumps were for copy-protected games and were not common anyway. Steve -- From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sat Jul 17 18:54:10 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:54:10 -0600 Subject: [Coco] drivewire suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <003801cb247b$21076060$0701a8c0@master> <20100716113417.GA11248@virgo.sdc.org> <20100716225057.GA2147@virgo.sdc.org> <20100717065146.GA25651@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100717225410.GA18738@virgo.sdc.org> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 08:33:30AM -0400, Steven Hirsch wrote: > Are you sure your Performa doesn't have ethernet built-in? On some of the > earlier models they had a "mini AUI" connector on the rear panel. A > number of companies made adapters to convert this to RJ45. Unfortunately, yes, I'm sure. ;-) Actually, I have an AAUI transciever in my box o' ethernet parts. Some companies just can't *stand* open standards, can they? >You also have the alternative of a localtalk<-->ethernet bridge, I'd prefer real ethernet. Besides, the proper ethernet card is cheap (esp. the AAUI only Apple card). I'm just horribly broke. :-( >Macs (and the IIGS) used a Zilog SCC serial chip and spoke >localtalk from the printer and/or modem ports. Yep. Localtalk is pretty cool. Tandylink was the same thing for the Model 4 and the T1000, except twice as fast. > There are many flavors of Apple disk images. Most are sector dumps. The > low-level nibble dumps were for copy-protected games and were not common > anyway. That's good. A DW server wouldn't have to go through lots of hoops to read them, and presumably most Apple II stuff would work just being sent the sectors. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From nutz4coco at gmail.com Sun Jul 18 15:08:07 2010 From: nutz4coco at gmail.com (Jim Cox) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:08:07 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Trying to contact Roy Justice Message-ID: Hey Roy! If you are there then please contact me off-line. Jim Cox http://miba51.blogspot.com/ http://geekswhocare.blogspot.com/ http://8-bit-retro-computing.blogspot.com/ From farna at att.net Sun Jul 18 20:20:47 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:20:47 -0400 Subject: [Coco] FPGA Primer Message-ID: <4C439A5F.6000100@att.net> For those interested in such things see http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Beginners-Guide-to-Programmable-Logic-Devices/ Don't know if this $199 board is enough for a CoCo in FPGA or not... 256Kx16 SRAM, 1Mx16x4 SDRAM, 4Mx8 Flassh, SD card reader, "USB blaster" (what's that, just high speed USB port?), one PS/2, one RS-232, and one VGA port, looks like two GPIO headers. http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-1736-ND -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From snhirsch at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 10:49:40 2010 From: snhirsch at gmail.com (Steven Hirsch) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Coco] FPGA Primer In-Reply-To: <4C439A5F.6000100@att.net> References: <4C439A5F.6000100@att.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, Frank Swygert wrote: > For those interested in such things see > http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Beginners-Guide-to-Programmable-Logic-Devices/ > > Don't know if this $199 board is enough for a CoCo in FPGA or not... 256Kx16 > SRAM, 1Mx16x4 SDRAM, 4Mx8 Flassh, SD card reader, "USB blaster" (what's that, > just high speed USB port?), one PS/2, one RS-232, and one VGA port, looks > like two GPIO headers. > > http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-1736-ND That board (also known as the "DE1") is one of the two official target platforms :-). FWIW, you can get it from DigiKey for about $50 less. Since Aaron, Gary and Mark helped me get mine going and talking with DW4, it's been smooth sailing. A 25Mhz. CoCo 3 is really something :-). Steve -- From mdelyea at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 20:30:52 2010 From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:30:52 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint Message-ID: Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port it to the coco. The original source is Pascal. http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ From dragonbytes at cox.net Tue Jul 20 20:59:54 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:59:54 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D54D885-7200-4289-BB24-4A2432075530@cox.net> Macpaint requires both the macpaint source and the quickdraw library code. Both written in partly in 68000. dont think it translates well to the 6809, but who knows. - Todd Wallace On Jul 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, mike delyea wrote: > Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port it > to the coco. The original source is Pascal. > > http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From mdelyea at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 21:09:29 2010 From: mdelyea at gmail.com (mike delyea) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:09:29 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: <7D54D885-7200-4289-BB24-4A2432075530@cox.net> References: <7D54D885-7200-4289-BB24-4A2432075530@cox.net> Message-ID: Both are available. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Todd Wallace wrote: > Macpaint requires both the macpaint source and the quickdraw library code. > Both written in partly in 68000. dont think it translates well to the 6809, > but who knows. > > - Todd Wallace > > On Jul 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, mike delyea wrote: > > > Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port > it > > to the coco. The original source is Pascal. > > > > http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From mechacoco at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 21:07:21 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:07:21 -0600 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/20/10, mike delyea wrote: > Source code is now open source (mac paint 1.3) if anybody wants to port it > to the coco. The original source is Pascal. > > http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ > --- The CoCo already has a MacPaint clone - CoCoMax. The MacPaint source is dependent on several other unreleased portions of the classic Mac toolbox including the Event Manager, Menu Manager, Window Manager, etc. I find it much more interesting that they have released the source to the original (monochrome) QuickDraw. Darren From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Wed Jul 21 01:39:20 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:39:20 -0600 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 07:07:21PM -0600, Darren A wrote: > > The CoCo already has a MacPaint clone - CoCoMax. No love for MVCanvas? Ahh, it's my favorite! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From badfrog at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 11:53:11 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:53:11 -0500 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: Don't forget ColorMax! On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 07:07:21PM -0600, Darren A wrote: >> >> The CoCo already has a MacPaint clone - CoCoMax. > > No love for MVCanvas? ?Ahh, it's my favorite! > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > ?-- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From museum.it.arlington at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 15:01:04 2010 From: museum.it.arlington at gmail.com (MITA - Gmail) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:01:04 -0500 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Vintage Computer Festival progress Message-ID: <4c4743f1.0c80640a.1e36.5b0e@mx.google.com> Things are shaping up nicely for the 1st annual Vintage Computer Festival Southwest, August 7-8. See the VCF website for the latest information: http://mit-a.com/VCF1.shtml We currently have 4 speakers signed up. Two are from Datapoint, one is from TI, and one is from the Museum of Information Technology at Arlington. If you would like to speak please contact us at Museum.IT.Arlington at gmail.com. If you would like to exhibit at the VCF please let us know what you plan to show and we will add it to the web site. We will only have a limited number of tables, so please sign up soon. Gil -- A. G. (Gil) Carrick, Director Museum of Information Technology at Arlington DT MITA icon 1012 Portofino Drive Arlington, TX 76012 817-264-MITA (6482) - gil.carrick (Skype) http://MIT-A.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1523 bytes Desc: not available URL: From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Wed Jul 21 19:00:49 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:00:49 -0600 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: References: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100721230049.GA18235@virgo.sdc.org> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:53:11AM -0500, Sean wrote: > Don't forget ColorMax! I suppose I should counter with Max-9 but I don't remember if I ever got it to work. ;-) Instead I'll give a hand to one of the CoCo's greatest and shout out for Color Computer Artist! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From dragonbytes at cox.net Wed Jul 21 19:17:23 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:17:23 -0400 Subject: [Coco] mac paint In-Reply-To: <20100721230049.GA18235@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721053920.GA15574@virgo.sdc.org> <20100721230049.GA18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I used Color Computer Artist as a kid! My sisters spent hours using the coco3 to draw stuff with it (to my great frustration, since I wanted to continue with my BASIC programming). A cool program. Never tried the others. - Todd Wallace On Jul 21, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:53:11AM -0500, Sean wrote: >> Don't forget ColorMax! > > I suppose I should counter with Max-9 but I don't remember if I ever > got it to work. ;-) > > Instead I'll give a hand to one of the CoCo's greatest and shout out > for Color Computer Artist! > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Wed Jul 21 19:28:39 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:28:39 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code Message-ID: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Ouch! Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the 8th grade. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) SOUND 255,255 is just plain painful! Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. That's actually mostly OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the reports. I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that clearly shows in the code. Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". But at least those aren't entirely my fault! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From devries.bob at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 19:38:58 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:38:58 +1000 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <004b01cb292d$ec1b2460$0701a8c0@master> hehehe, Willard, wait 'til someone points out a bug in your carefully crafted programme 15 years after it was written, and then find that you subscribed to the idea "if it was hard to write, it should be hard to read" (regarding the comments in the source) ;) Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Willard Goosey To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:28 AM Subject: [Coco] scary old code Ouch! Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the 8th grade. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) SOUND 255,255 is just plain painful! Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. That's actually mostly OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the reports. I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that clearly shows in the code. Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". But at least those aren't entirely my fault! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From dragonbytes at cox.net Wed Jul 21 19:49:44 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:49:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I wrote part of a game when i was about 14 or 15. it was supposed to be star fighter game. Had 4 guns at the corners and fired at a center crosshair at enemies. Written in BASIC. Also wrote a very basic GUI client that looked like Mac OS. would load a few apps. But alas I lost it when I wrote an Undelete program for DECB. Before I perfected it, I messed up and corrupted the disk. Those were the days. - Todd Wallace On Jul 21, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > Ouch! > > Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the > 8th grade. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! > > People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT > be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) SOUND 255,255 is just > plain painful! > > Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it > wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. That's actually mostly > OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the > reports. I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that > clearly shows in the code. > > Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, > mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". But at least those > aren't entirely my fault! > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 00:37:10 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:37:10 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. The CoCo makes it so easy to start programming that you can get ahead of yourself, writing code that is beyond your own skill level by trial and error. I don't think that's a bad thing... doing something the wrong way helps you appreciate the right way once you figure it out. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to have the same experience. Sure, you might pick up a couple bad habits by learning on your own, but those are easily corrected. The insight you gain from learning on a machine like the CoCo is priceless. On a modern computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to learn programming. With the CoCo, it's instantly ready for you to experiment. The BASIC manuals were a big part of it too, they really encouraged you to try things and explained each step without becoming a boring computer book. I wonder if there is anything done that well for kids (or even adults) today. Anyway, don't feel bad or ashamed of old code that's poorly done, after all, simply knowing that it's bad indicates you've learned new things and grown as a programmer. If you look at code from years prior and cannot see problems with it, you've stopped learning. (or you are one heck of a programmer :) -Aaron On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Todd Wallace wrote: > I wrote part of a game when i was about 14 or 15. it was supposed to be star fighter game. ?Had 4 guns at the corners and fired at a center crosshair at enemies. Written in BASIC. ?Also wrote a very basic GUI client that looked like Mac OS. ?would load a few apps. ?But alas I lost it when I wrote an Undelete program for DECB. ?Before I perfected it, ?I messed up and corrupted the disk. ?Those were the days. > > - Todd Wallace > > On Jul 21, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > >> Ouch! >> >> Last night I stumbled across a BASIC game I wrote when I was in the >> 8th grade. ?"Bad" doesn't even begin to describe it! >> >> People who have no musical ability at all (that's me BTW) should NOT >> be allowed to use the SOUND statement! :-) ?SOUND 255,255 is just >> plain painful! >> >> Not quite so painful, but still bad, is the BASIC database manager (it >> wanted to look like dBaseIII+) I wrote in '90. ?That's actually mostly >> OK at the code level, except for handling conditionals on the >> reports. ?I didn't understand what I was doing at all, and that >> clearly shows in the code. >> >> Then there's the extensive hacks I did to some of the Sample Programs, >> mainly "Print or Revise" and "Color Doodle". ?But at least those >> aren't entirely my fault! >> >> Willard >> -- >> Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org >> Socorro, New Mexico, USA >> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. >> ?-- R.E. Howard >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 05:41:51 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:41:51 -0400 Subject: [Coco] yet another drivewire4 beta version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I put up another update tonight. This fixes a couple bugs, adds detailed logging of MIDI events (needed it to fix one of the bugs), and removes the boot disks from the package. I realized that the disks included in the previous beta package did not include the updated modules that provide faster virtual serial output. The beta is now set to boot directly from the latest nightly NitrOS9 disks so special disks are not needed. By default it will use the 6809 CoCo3 version, but there are disk sets preconfigured for coco 1/2, 6309 coco3, and Gary Becker's Coco3FPGA. If you're using DriveWire with MESS, still have to make you own disks or use the one I have on the beta web site. Maybe I can add a MESS disk to the nightly builds at some point. If you are using DW on a server that does not have internet access, or if you want to use your own boot disk, its easy to configure DW to use that instead. -Aaron On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > Available here: http://sites.google.com/site/drivewire4/beta > > This version improves MIDI performance quite a bit. ?You can play > simple files directly off a DW disk and back out the bitbanger as > MIDI. ?More complex songs (pretty much any cmf0 file) will still > require that the file is on a local disk or in memory to play well. > I've tweaked the synthesizer translation profiles to help songs > arranged for the Yamaha PSS480 and a couple Casios sound better when > played on GM devices, and you can switch profiles in real time now, no > need to restart the song to catch the initial instrument assignments. > ?A nice side effect of the performance changes are that latency in > telnet and internet BBSing is reduced as well. > > I've also switched the disk cache to use a dynamic array, so memory > use should be much improved and loading larger disk images is > possible. ?I've added memory usage information to the "dw s s" command > so you can get an idea of how much we're using. ?If you need more than > your platform provides by default, you can allocate additional ram to > the DW server on the command line as so: > > java -Xmx512m -jar DriveWire.jar > > This would grant 512MB to DriveWire. ?the default is 256MB on most > systems, although its only 128MB on my debian linux dev box. > > There are a few other little improvements here and there. ?As always, > just let me know if it blows up your computer or causes hair loss. > -Aaron > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 06:18:52 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:18:52 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <004b01cb292d$ec1b2460$0701a8c0@master> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <004b01cb292d$ec1b2460$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <20100722101852.GA6604@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 09:38:58AM +1000, Bob Devries wrote: > hehehe, > > Willard, wait 'til someone points out a bug in your carefully > crafted programme 15 years after it was written, and then find that > you subscribed to the idea "if it was hard to write, it should be > hard to read" (regarding the comments in the source) ;) Been there, done that. I've got some HC11 assembly (from about '94), no file more than a page of code, and it's freaking incomprehensible! Not because I believed in "if it was hard to write it should be hard to read", but because "This is totally obvious. It doesn't need comments." :-( A word to the wise: Assembly is *never* obvious. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 06:26:03 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:26:03 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100722102603.GB6604@virgo.sdc.org> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 07:49:44PM -0400, Todd Wallace wrote: > But alas I lost it when I wrote an Undelete program for DECB. I think we've all had to write an undelete program for DECB. I had to write mine after Spell-n-Fix II crashed and deleted an 11-granule file! And I didn't have the Disk BASIC manual with me, so there was *lots* of experimenting there. Anyone else have that problem with Spell-n-Fix II from Star-kits? If it encountered an 8-bit character, it would crash and delete its input file. I think it needed a CoCo 3 patch. I knew that, but it had been years since I'd used my CoCo, and I forgot. It was an unpleasant reminder. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 06:57:21 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:57:21 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100722105721.GD6604@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:37:10AM -0400, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via > the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. For BASIC to be really clear, it needs lots of comments. It can be hard (and uses lots of resources like memory and line numbers) to use lots of comments in BASIC. It doesn't help that lots (most?) of the sample code we had available back then also wasn't really great about being readable. From the Sample Programs in the BASIC manual to Barden's books to Rainbow Magazine to generic BASIC Programming books. Look in them, and you'll see lots of dense, uncommented code. After all, people had to type that stuff in themselves, they're not going to want to type in lots of extra comments. >On a modern computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to >learn programming. That's a real problem that's hitting IT and CS college programs. Freshmen are coming in with exactly zero programming experience. Most of todays's computers don't come with any programming tools, so kids just aren't learning to program. >If you look at code from years prior and cannot see problems with it, >you've stopped learning. (or you are one heck of a programmer :) Pheah! My code from six months ago makes me wince. "Oh good job there, Mr. high-and-mighty-I-check-pointers-against-null-before- I-try-to-use-them!" :-) Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com Thu Jul 22 12:13:43 2010 From: rob.coco at zaphod.tzo.com (Rob Rosenbrock) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:13:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> I actually have fond memories of the book that came with the Model I. Well written, and fun to follow. As a kid, I quickly learned BASIC. 'Ready' and 'OK' still seem an inviting prompt. After learning the "right" way to program, I found it hard to start coding. Sort of like that old canard about whether you start walking with your left or right foot, and you end up tripping over your feet. I have asked many times how someone would begin today. There are no BASIC interpreters these days, just the visual environments where the initial focus is on the structure and appearance of windows and dialog boxes. Code becomes scattered across so many modules that a program doesn't resemble a program. Regardless of the language, the concepts just don't seem apparent. The original authors of BASIC, Kemeny and Kurtz, released something called TrueBASIC, and I guess that's still available. It is still very much an interpreter, but the language has been improved and does not rely on line numbers. It was targeted for education, but I can't see it being used in anything other than an introductory role these days. On Jul 22, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via > the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. > The CoCo makes it so easy to start programming that you can get ahead > of yourself, writing code that is beyond your own skill level by trial > and error. I don't think that's a bad thing... doing something the > wrong way helps you appreciate the right way once you figure it out. > > I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to have the same > experience. Sure, you might pick up a couple bad habits by learning > on your own, but those are easily corrected. The insight you gain > from learning on a machine like the CoCo is priceless. On a modern > computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to learn > programming. With the CoCo, it's instantly ready for you to > experiment. The BASIC manuals were a big part of it too, they really > encouraged you to try things and explained each step without becoming > a boring computer book. I wonder if there is anything done that well > for kids (or even adults) today. > > Anyway, don't feel bad or ashamed of old code that's poorly done, > after all, simply knowing that it's bad indicates you've learned new > things and grown as a programmer. If you look at code from years > prior and cannot see problems with it, you've stopped learning. (or > you are one heck of a programmer :) > > -Aaron From asa.rand at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 12:39:37 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:39:37 -0700 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <4DCF50DBD90A4B939D63DC2E93C41679@asarand> I found the same things to be true when I came back to DCom. I thought I would never forget that code. I knew it needed more comments, but it was already split into pieces just to keep the comments there were (and they are significant, when it comes to variable name definitions). I still have trouble following my own code when I read it. I have learned alot since then. I just wish I could find the time to get back to it and finish it. From devries.bob at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 20:17:57 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:17:57 +1000 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org><15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <4DCF50DBD90A4B939D63DC2E93C41679@asarand> Message-ID: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> Wayne, I think an idea that IMHO has merit is to keep two versions of the code; one with and one without comments. just my $0.02 Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Campbell To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code I found the same things to be true when I came back to DCom. I thought I would never forget that code. I knew it needed more comments, but it was already split into pieces just to keep the comments there were (and they are significant, when it comes to variable name definitions). I still have trouble following my own code when I read it. I have learned alot since then. I just wish I could find the time to get back to it and finish it. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 22 21:37:37 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:37:37 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:13:43PM -0400, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > After learning the "right" way to program, I found it hard to start > coding. Sort of like that old canard about whether you start walking > with your left or right foot, and you end up tripping over your > feet. Yeah, that can be a problem. The whole "Top-Down Design" and the structured programming nuts want to make even simple things really complicated. > I have asked many times how someone would begin today. There are no > BASIC interpreters these days, just the visual environments where > the initial focus is on the structure and appearance of windows and > dialog boxes. Code becomes scattered across so many modules that a > program doesn't resemble a program. Regardless of the language, the > concepts just don't seem apparent. Well, none included with the popular operating systems, anyway. FreeBasic is supposed to be pretty nice. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From asa.rand at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 22:18:59 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:18:59 -0700 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org><15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com><4DCF50DBD90A4B939D63DC2E93C41679@asarand> <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> You are correct, Bob. However, as I was working on my CoCo3 at the time, trying to maintain 2 different files was difficult. I couldn't always rememebr which one I made changes to first. It's easier now though. I have other programs to help me track changes. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Devries" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code > Wayne, > > I think an idea that IMHO has merit is to keep two versions of the code; > one with and one without comments. > > just my $0.02 > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne Campbell > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 2:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code > > > I found the same things to be true when I came back to DCom. I thought I > would never forget that code. I knew it needed more comments, but it was > already split into pieces just to keep the comments there were (and they > are > significant, when it comes to variable name definitions). I still have > trouble following my own code when I read it. I have learned alot since > then. I just wish I could find the time to get back to it and finish it. > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From 6809er at srbsoftware.com Fri Jul 23 02:29:43 2010 From: 6809er at srbsoftware.com (Steve Bjork) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:29:43 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> While I spend most of my coding time these days writing in some object based language, I long for simpler times of 6809 or 68000 coding when you created your own SDK. Maybe we should create our own BASIC interpreter call it "Freedom" BASIC. As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way I tell you to code!" Now, that would be a breath of fresh air! Steve (6809er) Bjork On 7/22/2010 6:37 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:13:43PM -0400, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > Yeah, that can be a problem. The whole "Top-Down Design" and the > structured programming nuts want to make even simple things really > complicated. > Well, none included with the popular operating systems, anyway. > FreeBasic is supposed to be pretty nice. > > Willard From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 23 03:54:36 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:54:36 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> Message-ID: <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 07:18:59PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote: > You are correct, Bob. However, as I was working on my CoCo3 at the time, > trying to maintain 2 different files was difficult. Yeah, you need some good tools to make that work. diff and patch, maybe. Unfortunately, machines with diff and patch don't have languages so limited by source-file size that you'd need a commented version and an uncommented version. Or, do all your work with a commented version, and automatically generate an uncommented version to feed to your compiler/interpeter, which is another option that the CoCo interpeters wouldn't make easy. I kind of wish we had a version of BASIC-09 that was strictly a non-interactive compiler. That would make it a lot easier to layer on pre-processors (like include or m4), comment strippers, etc onto the language. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From beretta42 at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 06:59:12 2010 From: beretta42 at gmail.com (Brett Gordon) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 06:59:12 -0400 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: I remember writing basic on the CoCo. I was too poor/isolated to "buy" software, so I had to write it all myself. I remember some basic games I wrote that were literally 20-30 pages look in print. No comments, lots of gotos, and lots of variables with *descriptive names* like "a1", "a2" and the such. I remember the beauty of "TRON" and "TRACE" and "EDIT". I remember the disappointment I felt when my new PC-XT's GW basic was just as slow as my CoCo2, and had less features. It's interesting to point out that many old forth's have 1/2 of the entire block memory (AKA disk sectors) set aside for commenting code. Many fancy-pants block editors would display each code block with it's coresponding comment block. -- Brett M. Gordon, beretta42 at gmail.com From skwirl42 at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 09:23:58 2010 From: skwirl42 at gmail.com (James Dessart) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:23:58 -0300 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Steve Bjork <6809er at srbsoftware.com> wrote: > As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way I > tell you to code!" It's called Perl. You can code any which way you'd like, even if you like line noise. ;) -- James Dessart From gene.heskett at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 10:16:48 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:16:48 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> Message-ID: <201007231016.49267.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Friday, July 23, 2010 10:16:01 am James Dessart did opine: > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Steve Bjork <6809er at srbsoftware.com> wrote: > > As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way > > I tell you to code!" > > It's called Perl. You can code any which way you'd like, even if you > like line noise. ;) Gah, you have been reading Larry Walls sigs again. ;-) -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Marxist Law of Distribution of Wealth: Shortages will be divided equally among the peasants. From spam001 at franklinlabs.com Fri Jul 23 11:36:41 2010 From: spam001 at franklinlabs.com (pilot352) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:36:41 -0000 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] Re: New CoCo site In-Reply-To: <288484.97010.qm@web43140.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian, Fantastic new site and thanks for the plug on my software!!! Much obliged!!! From fwp at deepthought.com Fri Jul 23 12:29:21 2010 From: fwp at deepthought.com (Frank Pittel) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:29:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Code your way, Was: scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> <20100723013737.GA6358@virgo.sdc.org> <4C4936D7.8030703@srbsoftware.com> Message-ID: <20100723162921.GC14231@warlock.deepthought.com> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:23:58AM -0300, James Dessart wrote: > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Steve Bjork <6809er at srbsoftware.com> wrote: > > > As in Freedom from the overkill world of "You must programming the way I > > tell you to code!" > > It's called Perl. You can code any which way you'd like, even if you > like line noise. ;) There's also python and for compiled languages C and C++ The other Frank From bear at bears.org Fri Jul 23 15:39:39 2010 From: bear at bears.org (Gary Coulbourne) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:39:39 -0400 Subject: [Coco] VCC Website? Message-ID: I just went to install VCC on my laptop, and noticed that the vcc6809.x10hosting.com site appears to be gone. Has there been any news of it being moved elsewhere? Thanks! Peace, Gary From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 23 16:46:49 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:46:49 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master> <4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100723204649.GA12726@virgo.sdc.org> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 06:59:12AM -0400, Brett Gordon wrote: >I remember some basic games I wrote that were literally 20-30 pages >look in print. No comments, lots of gotos, and lots of variables >with *descriptive names* like "a1", "a2" and the such. Scary. And pretty typical (except maybe the size (ouch, you're hardcore)). That's the way the manuals taught us to program. > It's interesting to point out that many old forth's have 1/2 of the entire > block memory (AKA disk sectors) set aside for commenting code. Many > fancy-pants block editors would display each code block with it's > coresponding comment block. Interesting, I didn't know that. Heh, FORTH needs all the commenting it can get. It's almost as bad as APL. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From boisy at tee-boy.com Fri Jul 23 17:16:40 2010 From: boisy at tee-boy.com (Boisy G. Pitre) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:16:40 -0500 Subject: [Coco] A bit of (personal) CoCo History Message-ID: I thought I would share this with the list today. My father recently moved closer to home, and in helping move his stuff, I obtained some residual things, including a box of old receipts. While going through the box in a casual manner, I found a Radio Shack receipt dated 5-15-87 for DeskMate 3. This was the program that put me on the path to using OS-9 since DeskMate 3 ran under OS-9 Level Two, as I discovered when I learned how to exit into the operating system. It's the little things like this that really make your day. -- Boisy G. Pitre http://www.tee-boy.com/ From asa.rand at gmail.com Sat Jul 24 12:28:05 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 09:28:05 -0700 Subject: [Coco] scary old code References: <001d01cb29fc$83486bd0$0701a8c0@master><4E4C3946750A49FA92DE99C67D59A6AB@asarand> <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <3D50F77EFD004ECC8ABE798E33E158D2@asarand> My wish list for Basic09 is: ability to save the internal tables to files unpack command (uses above tables) to unpack I-Code in a pinch (when you accidentally delete the only copy of the source code you have) ability to have a workspace larger than 40K (to hold all of those comments) When I began writing unpack, and then decode, I found that much commenting can be done just using variable names. The problem with it is that the longer word-names fills the workspace faster, even though the internal I-Code is using tokens, and the variable names are kept in a table. The single most important thing that could be done to Basic09, in this regard, is a larger workspace. Basic09 creates 3 tables, variable reference list, line reference list, and comments list. The comments list contains all of the comment lines, blank lines and line reference lines whose line number is not referenced in a GOTO, GOSUB, THEN , or RESTORE statement. The 4th "table" is the i-code produced when Basic09 compiled the source as it was loaded. When packing, the line reference offset addresses, and possibly the variable reference addresses are modified. The variable references point to data memory instead of the variable list, and line number references are replaced with the relative offset within the procedure instead of the line reference list. All comments and blank lines and unused line reference lines are just lost. I don't know how difficult it would be to make Basic09 capable of doing what I wish it could do. The program is already as large as a single program can be and still do the work it does. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willard Goosey" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] scary old code > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 07:18:59PM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote: >> You are correct, Bob. However, as I was working on my CoCo3 at the time, >> trying to maintain 2 different files was difficult. > > Yeah, you need some good tools to make that work. diff and patch, > maybe. Unfortunately, machines with diff and patch don't have > languages so limited by source-file size that you'd need a commented > version and an uncommented version. > > Or, do all your work with a commented version, and automatically > generate an uncommented version to feed to your compiler/interpeter, > which is another option that the CoCo interpeters wouldn't make easy. > > I kind of wish we had a version of BASIC-09 that was strictly a > non-interactive compiler. That would make it a lot easier to layer on > pre-processors (like include or m4), comment strippers, etc onto the > language. > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > -- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Sat Jul 24 17:21:24 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 15:21:24 -0600 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <3D50F77EFD004ECC8ABE798E33E158D2@asarand> References: <20100723075435.GA18338@virgo.sdc.org> <3D50F77EFD004ECC8ABE798E33E158D2@asarand> Message-ID: <20100724212124.GA25295@virgo.sdc.org> On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:28:05AM -0700, Wayne Campbell wrote: > My wish list for Basic09 is: [..] >I don't know how difficult it would be to make Basic09 > capable of doing what I wish it could do. The program is already as large > as a single program can be and still do the work it does. Ahh, but if you stripped out the text editor, command mode, and debugger for a cli-only compiler, you'd free up some code space and then you'd have room to add the code to make it dump its internal tables. I have to admit, however, that the NitrOS-9 source for BASIC-09 might be pretty scary stuff. It's probably from a disassembler. We were talking about code with no comments or useful variable names? BINGO! Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From johnguin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 25 12:37:57 2010 From: johnguin at hotmail.com (John Guin) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:37:57 -0700 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" Message-ID: Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th anniversary of the Amiga. Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? Just wondering, John From mechacoco at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 13:49:34 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:49:34 -0600 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/25/10, John Guin wrote: > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > anniversary of the Amiga. > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > ----- The official introduction date was July 31, 1980. We are 6 days away from the 30th birthday. Darren From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Jul 25 14:12:18 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:12:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. james On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > anniversary of the Amiga. > > > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > > > > Just wondering, > > John > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From flexser at fiu.edu Sun Jul 25 14:58:18 2010 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:58:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: So, big 20th birthday next month then, if memory serves you correct. Art On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:12 PM, wrote: > If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. > > That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. > > james > > On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: > > > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > > anniversary of the Amiga. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > > > > > > > > Just wondering, > > > > John > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From flexser at fiu.edu Sun Jul 25 15:00:21 2010 From: flexser at fiu.edu (Arthur Flexser) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:00:21 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Er, make that big 30th... Art On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Arthur Flexser wrote: > So, big 20th birthday next month then, if memory serves you correct. > > Art > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:12 PM, wrote: > >> If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. >> >> That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. >> >> james >> >> On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: >> >> > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the >> 25th >> > anniversary of the Amiga. >> > >> > >> > >> > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? >> > >> > >> > >> > Just wondering, >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Coco mailing list >> > Coco at maltedmedia.com >> > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> > > From alsplace at pobox.com Sun Jul 25 15:16:05 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:16:05 -0500 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> References: <4C4C7E82.20373.43312@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: <2E988F7F-A73F-4950-9F71-B85861ABDC90@pobox.com> Rainbow magazine listed a specific date in a calendar they put in an anniversary issue. I keep thinking it was August 20 (my birthday). - Allen Huffman ? PO Box 22031 ? Clive IA 50325 * 515-999-0227 Sent from my iPad On Jul 25, 2010, at 1:12 PM, jdaggett at gate.net wrote: > If my memory serves me correct it was August of 1980. > > That way stock was available for the 1980 Christmas season. > > james > > On 25 Jul 2010 at 9:37, John Guin wrote: > >> Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th >> anniversary of the Amiga. >> >> >> >> Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? >> >> >> >> Just wondering, >> >> John >> >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:04:35 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:04:35 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Message-ID: Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. From jejones3141 at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:25:31 2010 From: jejones3141 at gmail.com (James Jones) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:25:31 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the modified device descriptors. > Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. James Jones From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:29:15 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:29:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. ?I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. ?I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. ? Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a In OS9, you can use the "xmode" command to set these parameters. "xmode /p" will show you the current settings. Sometimes you need to use a lookup value rather than the literal value, for instance with baud rates here is the table: B110 EQU %00000000 B300 EQU %00000001 B600 EQU %00000010 B1200 EQU %00000011 B2400 EQU %00000100 B4800 EQU %00000101 B9600 EQU %00000110 B19200 EQU %00000111 B38400 EQU %00001000 B57600 EQU %00001001 B115200 EQU %00001010 So to set the baud rate to 1200bps, use "xmode /p bau=3". The definitions for these types of things can be found in the scfdefs file here: http://nitros9.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/nitros9/nitros9/defs/ > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > ?I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. ?I find > the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. ?However, I got into the > world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm > trying to remain true to its original character. ?Some of what I once had > learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can > and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > Consider using NitrOS9. It has many improvements and is free: http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:29:45 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:29:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007252329.45913.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:28:42 pm Chad H did opine: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm > trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. > I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified > RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom > 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of > the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 > double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough > to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a > old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC > programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but > is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the > printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications > allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but > not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a > page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC > initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the > OS-9 apps and print. When running os9, there is a utility called xmode that will allow you to control those sorts of things. > > > I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I > find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got > into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I > was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some > of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly > trying to relearn all I can and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a > later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. > 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) When I met th'POPE back in '58, I scrubbed him with a MILD SOAP or DETERGENT for 15 minutes. He seemed to enjoy it ... From jdaggett at gate.net Sun Jul 25 23:40:58 2010 From: jdaggett at gate.net (jdaggett at gate.net) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:40:58 -0400 Subject: [Coco] What was the "Coco Birthday?" In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4C4D03CA.16108.D98609@jdaggett.gate.net> That would sound about right. Tandy like many other retail outlets generally want to have Christmas stock in the warehouses by July. With that they can start the presses rolling with ads and distribution to the stores well ahead of the Christmas season. james On 25 Jul 2010 at 11:49, Darren A wrote: > On 7/25/10, John Guin wrote: > > Slashdot is running an article about today (or yesterday?) being the 25th > > anniversary of the Amiga. > > > > Does anyone have the release date of the original Coco? > > > > ----- > > The official introduction date was July 31, 1980. We are 6 days away > from the 30th birthday. > > Darren > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:36:44 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:36:44 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: Message-ID: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:45:16 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:45:16 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BTW - Welcome and hope you have fun with OS9! There is a lot of documentation available online, and I've tried to gather it in an easy to use form. Check out the OS-9 section here: https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/docs Especially "Mastering OS-9 on the Tandy Color Computer 3" (which Frank from FARNA Systems graciously gave me permission to post there :) and "The complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9 Level II", especially if you're interested in Basic09. -Aaron On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. ?I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. ?I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. ? Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > ?I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. ?I find > the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. ?However, I got into the > world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm > trying to remain true to its original character. ?Some of what I once had > learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can > and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:46:00 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:46:00 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> References: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, I'm hearing X-Mode or T-Mode for the printer configuration and D-Mode for the floppy configuration? Is this right? -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of James Jones Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:26 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take > advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a > FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I > configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the modified device descriptors. > Also, a > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a > couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the > application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go > into the OS-9 apps and print. > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. James Jones -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 23:51:04 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:04 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I'm hearing X-Mode or T-Mode for the printer configuration and D-Mode > for the floppy configuration? ?Is this right? > tmode is for configuring your terminal, xmode for SCF devices like the printer port, dmode for RBF devices like disk drives. tmode and xmode overlap in that terminals are usually (always?) SCF devices, but tmode doesn't take an argument for what device to use, it just configures the current terminal. Bob makes a good point in that since you're on level 1, things may be different. I believe xmode works the same in both, but I don't have a real L1 disk to try it with. Sounds like using dmode won't cut it in L1, you'll have to get a special device module. Another reason to seriously consider using NitrOS9 I think. -Aaron > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of James Jones > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:26 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: >> Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take >> advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have a >> FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS > EPROM >> that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I >> configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either > as >> /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device > descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to > a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one > with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file > containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In > either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the > modified device descriptors. >> ? ?Also, a >> person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel >> converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather >> well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it > (i.e. >> setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in >> OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a >> couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the >> application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get > these >> to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a >> RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go >> into the OS-9 apps and print. >> > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its > name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. > > ? ? James Jones > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:09:56 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:09:56 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:22:38 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:22:38 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <004f01cb2c7a$32d4a4e0$0701a8c0@master> hehe, sorry, Chad.... IIRC == If I Remember Correctly..... :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:29:33 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:29:33 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: Message-ID: <005d01cb2c7b$2f275ee0$0701a8c0@master> Hi All, for the life of me, I cannot remember where I last saw the disk driver for Level 1, nor can I remember its name. Can someone help out here? I have scanned through RTSI, and also the files from the Princeton days (now on maltedmedia), but nothing jumps out at me. :( Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia P.S. I seem to remember that it was from an article in The Rainbow..... ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:34:37 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:34:37 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 00:45:38 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:45:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: That has been my thoughts in the last little while. I have a good NitrOS9 (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. I had copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. Yea, it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. If that works, I will just have to get the printer configured then. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 01:01:54 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:01:54 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Model Number Confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> I keep collecting Coco stuff, and maintain a very detailed list. There is a Coco 1 on eBay right now (230503718010) that is advertised as model 26-3017A. This is one of the units I don't have in my collection. But when I looked carefully at the enlargement photo provided in the eBay ad, the original RS name plate on the bottom says it is a 26-3002A model, which I do have. There is a white sticker under that original plate that reads 26-3017A. The eBay ad also mentions this sticker. This sticker looks official, but has no other identifying marks other than that number. When the Shack did an upgrade, did they change the model number to indicate to what model the Coco was upgraded? Is there actually a 26-3017A model with that nameplate, or is the 26-3017A just an upgrade and never a produced model? Thanks! -- Steve -- From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 04:25:20 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:25:20 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same error message. I've looked at the Cobbler and OS9Gen utilities thinking maybe they could help. The OS9Gen is said to be able to rebuild from scratch a bootstrap file with only the modules you specify. The OS-9 manual also says that a certain list of modules are required. Question is, how do I pick and choose which of those modules I want to use in OS9Gen? It seems to be looking for the original bootstrap file or actual module files (which I don't see residing on the disks matching the bootup modules) Where are these bootup modules other than in the original bootstrap file?? I'm starting to miss MSDOS... :/ - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:46 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? That has been my thoughts in the last little while. I have a good NitrOS9 (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. I had copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. Yea, it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. If that works, I will just have to get the printer configured then. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 04:38:46 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:38:46 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <007f01cb2c9d$f8aa5070$0701a8c0@master> Chad, check what's in the "STARTUP" file on the NitrOS9 disk. If it's the same as the Level 2 disks, it will load some utils into memory. You could maybe do without those. As well, the default NitrOS9 bootfile probably has a lot of device driver and descriptors that the DeskMate disk doesn't have. hope that helps Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same error message. I've looked at the Cobbler and OS9Gen utilities thinking maybe they could help. The OS9Gen is said to be able to rebuild from scratch a bootstrap file with only the modules you specify. The OS-9 manual also says that a certain list of modules are required. Question is, how do I pick and choose which of those modules I want to use in OS9Gen? It seems to be looking for the original bootstrap file or actual module files (which I don't see residing on the disks matching the bootup modules) Where are these bootup modules other than in the original bootstrap file?? I'm starting to miss MSDOS... :/ - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:46 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? That has been my thoughts in the last little while. I have a good NitrOS9 (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. I had copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. Yea, it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. If that works, I will just have to get the printer configured then. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be able to read both single and double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Hi all, may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS EPROM that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it (i.e. setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could get these to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then go into the OS-9 apps and print. I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got into the world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and I'm trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I can and then some. P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Thanks for any help. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 05:01:06 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:01:06 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: Why not just use the Deskmate 3 disk that's built from the latest CVS every night? It's all ready to go. http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ -Aaron On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Chad H wrote: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had > time to try with others yet. ?DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits > almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". ?The OS9 on the DeskMate disk > seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. > I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same > error message. ?I've looked at the Cobbler and OS9Gen utilities thinking > maybe they could help. ?The OS9Gen is said to be able to rebuild from > scratch a bootstrap file with only the modules you specify. ?The OS-9 manual > also says that a certain list of modules are required. ?Question is, how do > I ?pick and choose which of those modules I want to use in OS9Gen? ?It seems > to be looking for the original bootstrap file or actual module files (which > I don't see residing on the disks matching the bootup modules) ?Where are > these bootup modules other than in the original bootstrap file?? > > I'm starting to miss MSDOS... :/ > > - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:46 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > That has been my thoughts in the last little while. ?I have a good NitrOS9 > (2008 build) that is already setup for the double-sided drives. ?I had > copied the DMODE utilty to a OS9 disk, rebooted from it and tried it. ?Yea, > it let me view and change the tracks/sides...but the FORMAT failed, oh well. > So yea, I'm in the process now of making a testing copy of the NitrOS9 to > see if I can't move some of my OS9 programs over to it. ?If that works, I > will just have to get the printer configured then. ?Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:35 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Chad, > since NitrOS9 and Tandy's OS9 are completely functionally identical, why > would you want to move the drivers/descriptors from one to the other. If you > have a programme which currently works on Tandy's Level 1, you could more > easily move the programme files to the NitrOS9 disk, since NitrOS9 should be > able to read both single and double-sided disks. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Chad H > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:09 PM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ?Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. ?I don't really know > ?much about IIRC. ?Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow from > ?Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? > > ?- Chad > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > ?Behalf Of Bob Devries > ?Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM > ?To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > ?Hi all, > > ?may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? > > ?AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to > ?replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available > on > ?RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. > > ?Regards, Bob Devries > ?Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ? ?----- Original Message ----- > ? ?From: Chad H > ? ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ? ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM > ? ?Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ? ?Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. ?I > ? ?usually only load it because an application or game requires it. ?I'm > ?trying > ? ?to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > ? ?Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > take > ? ?advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. ?I have > a > ? ?FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified RS-DOS > ?EPROM > ? ?that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. ?How do I > ? ?configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either > ?as > ? ?/d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. ? Also, a > ? ?person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a serial-to-parallel > ? ?converter that allows me to print to a old HP DeskJet 540 printer rather > ? ?well. ?I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs to work properly with it > ?(i.e. > ? ?setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters in > ? ?OS/9? ?If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? ?I've seen a > ? ?couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside > the > ? ?application setup, but not much other settings. ? Only way I could get > ?these > ? ?to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run a > ? ?RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and then > go > ? ?into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > ? ? I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. ?I > find > ? ?the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. ?However, I got into > ?the > ? ?world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 and > ?I'm > ? ?trying to remain true to its original character. ?Some of what I once > had > ? ?learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn all I > ?can > ? ?and then some. > > > > ? ?P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a > ?later > ? ?revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 > but > ?I > ? ?think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > ? ?Thanks for any help. > > > > > ? ?-- > ? ?Coco mailing list > ? ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ? ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 06:14:56 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:14:56 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <201007260614.56653.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:09:36 am Bob Devries did opine: > Hi all, > > may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? > > AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to > replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one > (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia 100% correct. The original Level 1 version 1.00 also had a different set of defines in the defsfiles. I recall getting my disk driver from a commercial place at the time, possibly ComputerWare, but it would take me the rest of the day to find the originals now. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Ed Sullivan will be around as long as someone else has talent. -- Fred Allen From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Jul 26 06:15:41 2010 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:15:41 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't > had time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but > exits almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 > on the DeskMate disk seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is > loading too many modules. I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and > then loading DeskMate, same error message. It seems to me that your understanding is on track here. DeskMate used most of the available memory. A custom bood disk will be needed, but It has been a LONG TIME since I messed with my CoCo 2 with OS-9. Bruce W. From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Jul 26 06:18:06 2010 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:18:06 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master><006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <721A329A898E4E23B6E1AA7CF8D7D840@speedy> > Why not just use the Deskmate 3 disk that's built from > the latest CVS every night? It's all ready to go. > > http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ > > -Aaron That needs a CoCo 3, which Level 1 rev 1.0.0 will not run on. Bruce W. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 06:26:26 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:26:26 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <4C4D002B.4010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007260626.26501.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:15:45 am Chad H did opine: > Ok, I'm hearing X-Mode or T-Mode for the printer configuration and > D-Mode for the floppy configuration? Is this right? > dmode is for storage (rbf) descriptor adjustments, and tmode (already open paths)/xmode (to be opened paths) are for serial (scf) devices. But Bob Devries is also correct in that your version is the original, did not have a dmode command because ccdisk was hard coded for SS disks. You would be better off to take a visit to nitros9.sourceforge.net and download the level 1 images available there, as all this is fixed in nitros9. The full link to the front page is: > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On Behalf Of James Jones > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:26 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > On 07/25/2010 10:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > > take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. > > I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a > > modified RS-DOS > > EPROM > > > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do > > I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > > either > > as > > > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > > There's a utility out there called dmode that lets you modify RBF device > descriptor modules (the ones in memory; you'll want to save them out to > a file). If you don't have that, then you'll have to either create one > with an assembler or use a program that will let you modify a file > containing the device descriptors (and update the module CRCs). In > either case, you will then want to recreate a boot file with the > modified device descriptors. > > > Also, a > > > > person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a > > serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP > > DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC > > programs to work properly with it > > (i.e. > > > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters > > in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've > > seen a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate > > inside the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way > > I could get > > these > > > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run > > a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and > > then go into the OS-9 apps and print. > > For that you'll use tmode (the program that inspired dmode and its > name), which modifies SCF flavored device descriptors. > > James Jones > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Science is what happens when preconception meets verification. From brucewcalkins at charter.net Mon Jul 26 06:07:28 2010 From: brucewcalkins at charter.net (Bruce W. Calkins) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:07:28 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: Message-ID: <6B1818ADDEEE43F6AE23534272B794F9@speedy> > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could > find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says > level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Level 1 rev. 1.0.0 was pretty well hard coded for the "standard" Radio Shack drives. I remember modifying Level 1 rev 2.0.0 for 40 track double sided drives because it was the first CoCo OS-9 that supported that action. NitrOS9 is a good option. Since you are using Level 1 rev 1.0.0 you must be using a CoCo 1 or 2 since it does not boot on the CoCo 3, which was part of the reason for rev 2.0.0. Quite simply your frustration level for what you want to do will be much lower with NitrOS9. OTOH; if you look around at the various archives, RTSI, and MaltedMedia you might find a image of the Level 1 rev 2.0.0 disks. Bruce W. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 06:31:15 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:31:15 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <201007260631.15817.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:27:20 am Chad H did opine: > Sorry, I'm only familiar with RTSI on the web or FTP. I don't really > know much about IIRC. Can the driver/descriptors be extracted somehow > from Nitro-OS9 to a OS-9 system disk? > > - Chad The disk images you can download from can be written to a real floppy and the coco booted directly from that floppy. Or, you can use drivewire, and will not need floppy disks on the coco, it can boot from those images on the pc's hard drive. > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:37 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Hi all, > > may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? > > AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to > replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one (available > on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:04 PM > Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm > trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > Here's the issue I'm working on right now: trying to configure it to > take advantage of the printer and floppy drive setup I have attached. > I have a FD-502 with dual 5.25 double-sided 360k drives with a modified > RS-DOS EPROM > that allows the top unit to be drives 0/1 and the bottom 2/3. How do > I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either as > /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. Also, > a person on this list was gracious enough to sell me a > serial-to-parallel converter that allows me to print to a old HP > DeskJet 540 printer rather well. I've coded some RS-DOS BASIC programs > to work properly with it (i.e. > setting 1200baud and CRLF) but is there a way to set such parameters > in OS/9? If memory serves, the printer is /P device, right? I've seen > a couple of OS-9 applications allow the setting of the baud rate inside > the application setup, but not much other settings. Only way I could > get these > to printt down a page instead of all text on the first line was to run > a RS-DOS BASIC initialization program to initialize the printer and > then go into the OS-9 apps and print. > > > > I know there are more advanced things out there now for the CoCo. I > find the idea of using SD card for storage fascinating. However, I got > into the > world of computers and programming on this very CoCo 2 when I was 14 > and I'm > trying to remain true to its original character. Some of what I once > had learned years ago I've forgotten and I'm slowly trying to relearn > all I can > and then some. > > > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could find a > later > revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 > but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) TV is chewing gum for the eyes. -- Frank Lloyd Wright From jorge_machin at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 08:22:57 2010 From: jorge_machin at hotmail.com (Jorge Renato Machin Ibarra) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:22:57 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Color Burner In-Reply-To: <4C4D03CA.16108.D98609@jdaggett.gate.net> References: , , , <4C4D03CA.16108.D98609@jdaggett.gate.net> Message-ID: Hi! I wonder if someone here have a photo of Color Burner. I want to post it in my blog to remember my eproms burners. I have the manuals in B&W but I lost my Color Burner. Thank you very much Jorge Machin _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 From robert.gault at att.net Mon Jul 26 08:48:16 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:48:16 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> Message-ID: <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Chad H wrote: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had > time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits > almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk > seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. > I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same > error message. Chad, Level1 NitrOS-9 has an mfree result of 137 pages while Deskmate 1 gives 162. That should explain the "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY" message. It seems your main request is to use Deskmate 1 with the disk hardware on your system. You have said the disks are assigned Top 0/1 and Bottom 2/3 in your ROM but that may not be enough information. That just says what DIR0-DIR3 will access not what the values in the ROM drive table actually are. This is important as your easiest solution is to modify the CCDISK drive table on the Deskmate disk to match your hardware. On the stock Deskmate disk, the drive table values are at CCDISK bytes $209 01,02,04,$40. These are the drive masks used to access the four floppies if the modules are present in the OS9Boot file. Deskmate has only /d0 and /d1 in the bootfile. You probably need to change the table to match that in your ROM. My guess would be your ROM table is 01,$41,02,$42 based on your description. The more usual table would be 01,02,$41,$42 making the top drive 0/2 and the bottom 1/3. Antway it looks like you need to change the CCDISK table to 01,$41,02,$42. From the thread I've been reading, that could be more trouble for you than the effort is worth. Would you like me to e-mail you a modified disk? Robert From mechacoco at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 11:14:26 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:14:26 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Model Number Confusion In-Reply-To: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> References: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> Message-ID: I'm not sure what the 'A' suffix refers to, but 26-3017 was the catalog number for a RAM upgrade. The Radio Shack technicians would apply the extra sticker after performing an upgrade, probably for warranty purposes. Darren --- On 7/25/10, Steve Ostrom wrote: > I keep collecting Coco stuff, and maintain a very detailed list. There is a > Coco 1 on eBay right now (230503718010) that is advertised as model > 26-3017A. This is one of the units I don't have in my collection. But when > I looked carefully at the enlargement photo provided in the eBay ad, the > original RS name plate on the bottom says it is a 26-3002A model, which I do > have. There is a white sticker under that original plate that reads > 26-3017A. The eBay ad also mentions this sticker. This sticker looks > official, but has no other identifying marks other than that number. When > the Shack did an upgrade, did they change the model number to indicate to > what model the Coco was upgraded? Is there actually a 26-3017A model with > that nameplate, or is the 26-3017A just an upgrade and never a produced > model? > > Thanks! > > -- Steve -- > From farna at att.net Mon Jul 26 11:14:29 2010 From: farna at att.net (Frank Swygert) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:14:29 -0400 Subject: [Coco] re OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Message-ID: <4C4DA655.9010902@att.net> Definitely set the drives up as 360K double sided drives. A double sided drive will still read a single sided, no problems there, even the old 35 track (160K) single sided disks. Instead of messing around with OS-9 Level 1 I'd suggest you download a copy of Nitros-9. It's a continually upgraded version of OS-9 that a few members of the CoCo/Os-9 community developed years ago and have kept improving over the years. It will have all the utilities you need built in and works just like OS-9 -- you can use the OS-9 manuals/books and get 80% of the system. The other 20% are improvements that go beyond the original, like the DMODE command/utility. Everything that runs under OS-9 Level 1 and 2 will run under Nitros-9 (Technically "NitrOS-9" - OS-9 on nitrous if you will). 95% of what you read in any OS-9 book should work exactly the same. I'd say 100%, but there are a few things that work differently, though I don't know enough to say exactly what they are -- no "fresh" experience with Nitros or OS-9 (not in YEARS -- I just keep up with the list a bit out of nostalgia). "Learning OS-9 on the CoCo 3" is probably the best book ever. I didn't write it, I edited and published the last version with permission from the original author. I don't know if a disk image is up yet but there is a copy on the CoCo-List archives and several other sources, as Aaron mentioned his site for one (Aaron, you can get a copy of the disk image if it's up on the list site and distribute that also). Your problem may be in getting a disk. you have to download on a PC then copy to a floppy -- if you have a 5.25" drive on your PC. Some have problems when using a 1.2M 5.25" drive, but your 360K drives (set as 360K DD drives) SHOULD read the 1.2M disk, but DO NOT write to the 1.2M disk. Instead, the first thing after booting from one should be to make a backup to a 360K disk then use that, reuse the 1.2M floppy or put it up as a backup only with a note NOT to write to it from the CoCo. If you don't have a 5.25" disk on a PC maybe someone here will be kind enough to make you a 360K Nitros disk and send it for a small fee... On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) From SFischer1 at Mindspring.com Mon Jul 26 15:10:02 2010 From: SFischer1 at Mindspring.com (Stephen H. Fischer) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:10:02 -0700 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007260614.56653.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <201007260614.56653.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I got my OS-9 Level 1 disk drivers from SDisk1, is that what you remember? I think that I have DSK files of all my SDisk original disks and doc's. SHF > Hi All, > for the life of me, I cannot remember where I last saw the disk driver for > Level 1, nor can I remember its name. > Can someone help out here? I have scanned through RTSI, and also the files > from the Princeton days (now on maltedmedia), but nothing jumps out at me. > :( > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Heskett" To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > On Monday, July 26, 2010 06:09:36 am Bob Devries did opine: > >> Hi all, >> >> may I be so bold as to point out that Chad H is using Level ONE of OS9? >> >> AFAIK, level ONE was HARD CODED for single-sided disks. You needed to >> replace the floppy driver and descriptors with a modified one >> (available on RTSI IIRC) to read/write double-sided disks. >> >> Regards, Bob Devries >> Dalby, QLD, Australia > > 100% correct. The original Level 1 version 1.00 also had a different set > of > defines in the defsfiles. I recall getting my disk driver from a > commercial > place at the time, possibly ComputerWare, but it would take me the rest of > the day to find the originals now. > > -- > Cheers, Gene From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 18:59:09 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:59:09 -0500 Subject: [Coco] re OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4DA655.9010902@att.net> References: <4C4DA655.9010902@att.net> Message-ID: Oh I'm good on disks. I use a old win98 box with 5.25 360k floppy to backup/restore .DSK images and I got plenty of unopened 5.25 disk boxes. I've had NitrOS9 for some time but the bootstrap seems too large for some applications to run. Trying to figure out how to take some of the modules out, not add in extra with OS9Gen or Cobbler. - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Frank Swygert Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:14 AM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: [Coco] re OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Definitely set the drives up as 360K double sided drives. A double sided drive will still read a single sided, no problems there, even the old 35 track (160K) single sided disks. Instead of messing around with OS-9 Level 1 I'd suggest you download a copy of Nitros-9. It's a continually upgraded version of OS-9 that a few members of the CoCo/Os-9 community developed years ago and have kept improving over the years. It will have all the utilities you need built in and works just like OS-9 -- you can use the OS-9 manuals/books and get 80% of the system. The other 20% are improvements that go beyond the original, like the DMODE command/utility. Everything that runs under OS-9 Level 1 and 2 will run under Nitros-9 (Technically "NitrOS-9" - OS-9 on nitrous if you will). 95% of what you read in any OS-9 book should work exactly the same. I'd say 100%, but there are a few things that work differently, though I don't know enough to say exactly what they are -- no "fresh" experience with Nitros or OS-9 (not in YEARS -- I just keep up with the list a bit out of nostalgia). "Learning OS-9 on the CoCo 3" is probably the best book ever. I didn't write it, I edited and published the last version with permission from the original author. I don't know if a disk image is up yet but there is a copy on the CoCo-List archives and several other sources, as Aaron mentioned his site for one (Aaron, you can get a copy of the disk image if it's up on the list site and distribute that also). Your problem may be in getting a disk. you have to download on a PC then copy to a floppy -- if you have a 5.25" drive on your PC. Some have problems when using a 1.2M 5.25" drive, but your 360K drives (set as 360K DD drives) SHOULD read the 1.2M disk, but DO NOT write to the 1.2M disk. Instead, the first thing after booting from one should be to make a backup to a 360K disk then use that, reuse the 1.2M floppy or put it up as a backup only with a note NOT to write to it from the CoCo. If you don't have a 5.25" disk on a PC maybe someone here will be kind enough to make you a 360K Nitros disk and send it for a small fee... On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've only slightly tinkered with OS-9 slightly over the years. I > usually only load it because an application or game requires it. I'm trying > to learn a bit more about it so I can make better use of it. > > How do I configure OS-9 to take advantage of the other sides of the drives, > either as /d2, /d3, etc. or by making /d0 and /d1 double-sided devices. > > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. ?Wish I could find a later > revision. ?I know the DeskMate diskette I have says level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I > think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://www.amc-mag.com (free download available!) -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 19:05:10 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:05:10 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Well I'm willing to take a crack at it. Yea I know my numbering scheme may not be typical but hey...it suits me. Anywhooo....how do I modify the CCDISK table? From what you say about it being so much trouble, I would guess it would be some sort of direct hex edit, that's the most troublesome hacks I've ever had to deal with but I could just edit the .DSK image on PC and look for the pattern that needs changing if that's the case. - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gault Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 7:48 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad H wrote: > Well the "move programs to NitrOS9" didn't work with DeskMate..haven't had > time to try with others yet. DeskMate tries to load under NitrOS9 but exits > almost immediately saying "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY". The OS9 on the DeskMate disk > seems very stripped down. I'm thinking NitrOS9 is loading too many modules. > I even tried booting from original OS-9 disk and then loading DeskMate, same > error message. Chad, Level1 NitrOS-9 has an mfree result of 137 pages while Deskmate 1 gives 162. That should explain the "NOT ENOUGH MEMORY" message. It seems your main request is to use Deskmate 1 with the disk hardware on your system. You have said the disks are assigned Top 0/1 and Bottom 2/3 in your ROM but that may not be enough information. That just says what DIR0-DIR3 will access not what the values in the ROM drive table actually are. This is important as your easiest solution is to modify the CCDISK drive table on the Deskmate disk to match your hardware. On the stock Deskmate disk, the drive table values are at CCDISK bytes $209 01,02,04,$40. These are the drive masks used to access the four floppies if the modules are present in the OS9Boot file. Deskmate has only /d0 and /d1 in the bootfile. You probably need to change the table to match that in your ROM. My guess would be your ROM table is 01,$41,02,$42 based on your description. The more usual table would be 01,02,$41,$42 making the top drive 0/2 and the bottom 1/3. Antway it looks like you need to change the CCDISK table to 01,$41,02,$42. From the thread I've been reading, that could be more trouble for you than the effort is worth. Would you like me to e-mail you a modified disk? Robert -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 19:10:07 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:10:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <6B1818ADDEEE43F6AE23534272B794F9@speedy> References: <6B1818ADDEEE43F6AE23534272B794F9@speedy> Message-ID: I think I came across a rather large disk archive last night that contains a rev 2.0.0 .DSK image. I plan on checking that out shortly. Yea I'm working with a 64k CoCo 2. Only things modded on it are the addition of a cooling fan and processor was changed for a Hitachi 68B09. - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bruce W. Calkins Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:07 AM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > P.S. I have the original OS-9 level 1 rev. 1.0.0. Wish I could > find a later revision. I know the DeskMate diskette I have says > level 1 rev. 2.0.0 but I think it's missing a lot of the OS-9 files. Level 1 rev. 1.0.0 was pretty well hard coded for the "standard" Radio Shack drives. I remember modifying Level 1 rev 2.0.0 for 40 track double sided drives because it was the first CoCo OS-9 that supported that action. NitrOS9 is a good option. Since you are using Level 1 rev 1.0.0 you must be using a CoCo 1 or 2 since it does not boot on the CoCo 3, which was part of the reason for rev 2.0.0. Quite simply your frustration level for what you want to do will be much lower with NitrOS9. OTOH; if you look around at the various archives, RTSI, and MaltedMedia you might find a image of the Level 1 rev 2.0.0 disks. Bruce W. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From smostrom7 at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 20:19:42 2010 From: smostrom7 at comcast.net (Steve Ostrom) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:19:42 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Model Number Confusion In-Reply-To: References: <93CA7E19011D403F993397B7F360B129@OstromPC> Message-ID: <1C57BEF0459144A68A70E8320F4ABD55@OstromPC> Thanks, Darren. That makes sense. Both you and Torsten made the same observation, so I'm sure that is the explanation. There is really no Coco with model # 26-3017 or 3017A. Those are part numbers for the RAM. -- Steve -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren A" To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Model Number Confusion > I'm not sure what the 'A' suffix refers to, but 26-3017 was the > catalog number for a RAM upgrade. The Radio Shack technicians would > apply the extra sticker after performing an upgrade, probably for > warranty purposes. > > Darren > > --- > > On 7/25/10, Steve Ostrom wrote: >> I keep collecting Coco stuff, and maintain a very detailed list. There >> is a >> Coco 1 on eBay right now (230503718010) that is advertised as model >> 26-3017A. This is one of the units I don't have in my collection. But >> when >> I looked carefully at the enlargement photo provided in the eBay ad, the >> original RS name plate on the bottom says it is a 26-3002A model, which I >> do >> have. There is a white sticker under that original plate that reads >> 26-3017A. The eBay ad also mentions this sticker. This sticker looks >> official, but has no other identifying marks other than that number. >> When >> the Shack did an upgrade, did they change the model number to indicate to >> what model the Coco was upgraded? Is there actually a 26-3017A model >> with >> that nameplate, or is the 26-3017A just an upgrade and never a produced >> model? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- Steve -- >> > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 22:41:54 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:41:54 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 22:53:01 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:53:01 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 22:53:53 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:53:53 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: Chad, Your bootfile created with OS9Gen appears to have included the drivers SCBBT and SCBBP, but no descriptors for those (T1 and P). Also, I believe that OS9 L1 must have SHELL in the boot file. You probably don't need SCBBT and T1; you should have D1 and DD (not sure about DD). Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:23:25 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:23:25 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Chad, I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Regards, Bob Devries ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:49:12 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:49:12 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007262349.13111.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:33:19 pm Chad H did opine: > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally > booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like > there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with > joysticks? - Chad Both sysgo and shell need to be in the assigned cmds directory of the boot disk, they do not need to be in the bootfile itself, sysgo itself is a one time executable and is not needed ever again until the next reboot. Shell also can be loaded as needed, at some expense of load speed. Most do not add it to the bootfile. Rel, Krn, boot are also not part of the os9 bootfile, but reside in track 34 of the written disk, and it is this track which is loaded in its entirety when you type 'dos'ENTER.' These 3 modules are also level specific in that level 1 and level 2 versions do not work together. As for the joystick, I could be mistaken but I believe that comes from an .sb module, probably called something like joydrv.sb, and which IIRC becomess a subroutine loaded by VTIO, but there are many of those for various sorts of those hardware accessories. So read the docs, or the src's, to see which one you actually need for your 'joystick'. The only one of those I'm familiar with is the one for a serial mouse, driven by, in my case, and extra set of chips for a second rs-232 port in my own Deluxe RS-232 pack, and of no use to you. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) "World conquerors sometimes become fools, but fools never become world conquerors." -- "The Outer Limits: The Invisibles" From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:49:12 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:49:12 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on creating some custom bootstrap builds. However, I'm unable to locate this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:23 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Regards, Bob Devries ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? - Chad -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... REL KRN KRNP2 INIT BOOT IOMAN RBF RB1773 D0 D1 D2 DD SCF VTIO COVDG TERM SCBBP P SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN PIPER PIPE CLOCK CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL Latest OS9Gen I used included... RB1773 D0 VTIO TERM IOMAN RBF SCF SYSGO CLOCK CLOCK2 SCBBT SCBBP COVDG This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! Thanks. - Chad -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:56:40 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Chad H wrote: > The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that > contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on creating > some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to locate this disk on > the NitrOS9 website :( > http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ "NitrOS-9/6809 Level 1 Disk 2" is clearly labeled. Disk 1 and 2 are combined into a single disk for the 80 track and DriveWire disk images. > - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:23 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level > 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. > > Regards, Bob Devries > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Chad H > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ?Update... ?I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally > ?booted. ?DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. ?However, it acted like > there > ?was no joystick attached. ?Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? > ?- Chad > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > ?Behalf Of Chad H > ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > ?Ok, I've backed up a little bit. ?My current thinking tells me the easiest > ?way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives > is > ?going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I > don't > ?need. ?I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules > ?and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the > ?modules. ?So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes > no > ?further. > > ?Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > ?REL KRN KRNP2 > ?INIT BOOT IOMAN > ?RBF RB1773 D0 > ?D1 D2 DD > ?SCF VTIO COVDG > ?TERM SCBBP P > ?SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > ?PIPER PIPE CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > ?Latest OS9Gen I used included... > ?RB1773 > ?D0 > ?VTIO > ?TERM > ?IOMAN > ?RBF > ?SCF > ?SYSGO > ?CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 > ?SCBBT > ?SCBBP > ?COVDG > > ?This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > ?Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > ?Thanks. > > ?- Chad > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:53:00 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:53:00 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:02:44 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:02:44 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: > The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that > contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on > creating some custom bootstrap builds. However, I'm unable to locate > this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( > > - Chad > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. I have some images I made back in February on my web site if they will work for you. should show you a directory listing. You would want: nos96809l1_40d_1.dsk nos96809l1_40d_2.dsk Both are 40 track double sided images, and the first one, if written to a floppy with the right writer SW, should boot. If you have an 80 track DS drive, the next image down is the whole enchilada, but I do not know if it will be bootable in that format which is equal to a 720k DD diskette. [...] -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) She blinded me with science! From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:17:36 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:17:36 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: > >> The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that >> contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on >> creating some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to locate >> this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( >> >> - Chad >> > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. ?I have > some images I made back in February on my web site if they will work for > you. > The nightly builds were down for a while, but Boisy got them working very nicely a few months back, Robert Gault managed to get all the Sierra targets building perfectly for DW, and I babysit the process (as in, I read the log every few days when I remember :) We also made the "latest disks" page with each disk image listed and categorized by package and disk type. Hopefully it's easier than ever to get the latest version of any specific disk image as needed, and you can boot right off the /latest page images with DW or CocoNet. It is working great at the moment, and with any luck should be reliable in the future. > > > should show you a directory listing. ?You would want: > > nos96809l1_40d_1.dsk > nos96809l1_40d_2.dsk > > Both are 40 track double sided images, and the first one, if written to a > floppy with the right writer SW, should boot. > > If you have an 80 track DS drive, the next image down is the whole > enchilada, but I do not know if it will be bootable in that format which is > equal to a 720k DD diskette. > > [...] > > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > ?soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > She blinded me with science! > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:26:18 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:26:18 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007270026.18733.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:23:44 am Aaron Wolfe did opine: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: > >> The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' > >> that contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts > >> on creating some custom bootstrap builds. However, I'm unable to > >> locate this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( > >> > >> - Chad > > > > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. I > > have some images I made back in February on my web site if they will > > work for you. > > The nightly builds were down for a while, but Boisy got them working > very nicely a few months back, Robert Gault managed to get all the > Sierra targets building perfectly for DW, and I babysit the process > (as in, I read the log every few days when I remember :) We also made > the "latest disks" page with each disk image listed and categorized by > package and disk type. Hopefully it's easier than ever to get the > latest version of any specific disk image as needed, and you can boot > right off the /latest page images with DW or CocoNet. It is working > great at the moment, and with any luck should be reliable in the > future. > Thanks Aaron. Those I expect are much fresher than mine, which have probably reached their 'use by' date, in addition to not working with DW. ;-) -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The bigger they are, the harder they hit. From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 00:31:59 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:31:59 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007270026.18733.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <201007270002.44622.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <201007270026.18733.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:23:44 am Aaron Wolfe did opine: > >> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Gene Heskett > wrote: >> > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:55:01 pm Chad H did opine: >> >> The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' >> >> that contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts >> >> on creating some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to >> >> locate this disk on the NitrOS9 website :( >> >> >> >> - Chad >> > >> > I expect its there unless the nightly build script is now broken. ?I >> > have some images I made back in February on my web site if they will >> > work for you. >> >> The nightly builds were down for a while, but Boisy got them working >> very nicely a few months back, Robert Gault managed to get all the >> Sierra targets building perfectly for DW, and I babysit the process >> (as in, I read the log every few days when I remember :) ?We also made >> the "latest disks" page with each disk image listed and categorized by >> package and disk type. ?Hopefully it's easier than ever to get the >> latest version of any specific disk image as needed, and you can boot >> right off the /latest page images with DW or CocoNet. ?It is working >> great at the moment, and with any luck should be reliable in the >> future. >> > Thanks Aaron. ?Those I expect are much fresher than mine, which have > probably reached their 'use by' date, in addition to not working with DW. > ;-) > Boisy found and corrected a handful of issues in recent months. Some effected L1, I can't remember what exactly but I think he backported some L2 stuff that was not previously available in L1, wish I could remember what :) > -- > Cheers, Gene > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > ?soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > The bigger they are, the harder they hit. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 01:34:22 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:34:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> Message-ID: If you're familiar with unix and tools like make, it's actually much easier to build a boot disk by checking out the NitrOS9 CVS and using the "Toolshed" coco development tools to assemble and create your own NitrOS9 disks. Changing the modules on a boot disk is as simple as tweaking a makefile and "make dsk". When testing different things on different systems, I have to make several different OS9 disks quite often. If I had to use os9gen each time it would be really, really tedious. A modern PC can build all of NitrOS9 in a few seconds. The Toolshed can also be used on Windows. It works pretty much just like it does in linux if you use the cygwin environment. I think you can also run the tools natively as windows programs but I haven't done that myself. Toolshed is here if you're interested: http://sourceforge.net/projects/toolshed/ -Aaron On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Chad H wrote: > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. ?My current thinking tells me the easiest > way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives is > going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I don't > need. ?I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules > and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the > modules. ?So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no > further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL ? ? ? ? ? ? KRN ? ? ? ? ? ? KRNP2 > INIT ? ? ? ? ? ?BOOT ? ? ? ? ? ?IOMAN > RBF ? ? ? ? ? ? RB1773 ?D0 > D1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?D2 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?DD > SCF ? ? ? ? ? ? VTIO ? ? ? ? ? ?COVDG > TERM ? ? ? ? ? ?SCBBP ? ? ? ? ? P > SCBBT ? ? ? ? ? T1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?PIPEMAN > PIPER ? ? ? ? ? PIPE ? ? ? ? ? ?CLOCK > CLOCK2 ?SYSGO ? ? ? ? ? SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 03:00:28 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 02:00:28 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <003b01cb2c73$c95fefc0$0701a8c0@master> <006701cb2c7b$e01fa180$0701a8c0@master> <4C4D8410.5040401@att.net> <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> Message-ID: Been there...done that, although I couldn't use the 80 track version since I?m using actual physical 40-track drives/disks. However, I did get the "disk 2" for the coco level 1 and all it has was a basic boot setup. There were no module files or anything there. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Wolfe Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:57 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Chad H wrote: > The "Getting started with NitrOS9" PDF manual mentions a 'disk 2' that > contains a folder of modules along with some pre-made scripts on creating > some custom bootstrap builds. ?However, I'm unable to locate this disk on > the NitrOS9 website :( > http://www.nitros9.org/latest/ "NitrOS-9/6809 Level 1 Disk 2" is clearly labeled. Disk 1 and 2 are combined into a single disk for the 80 track and DriveWire disk images. > - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On > Behalf Of Bob Devries > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:23 PM > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike Level > 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. > > Regards, Bob Devries > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Chad H > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > ?Update... ?I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it finally > ?booted. ?DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. ?However, it acted like > there > ?was no joystick attached. ?Which NitrOS9 module deals with joysticks? > ?- Chad > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On > ?Behalf Of Chad H > ?Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > ?To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > ?Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > ?Ok, I've backed up a little bit. ?My current thinking tells me the easiest > ?way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with Double-sided drives > is > ?going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out the bootstrap modules I > don't > ?need. ?I've been toying around with saving the original bootstrap modules > ?and then using OS9Gen to rebuild the bootstrap leaving out some of the > ?modules. ?So far, I've only gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes > no > ?further. > > ?Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > ?REL KRN KRNP2 > ?INIT BOOT IOMAN > ?RBF RB1773 D0 > ?D1 D2 DD > ?SCF VTIO COVDG > ?TERM SCBBP P > ?SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > ?PIPER PIPE CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > ?Latest OS9Gen I used included... > ?RB1773 > ?D0 > ?VTIO > ?TERM > ?IOMAN > ?RBF > ?SCF > ?SYSGO > ?CLOCK > ?CLOCK2 > ?SCBBT > ?SCBBP > ?COVDG > > ?This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > ?Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > ?Thanks. > > ?- Chad > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > ?-- > ?Coco mailing list > ?Coco at maltedmedia.com > ?http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 03:08:07 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 02:08:07 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master> <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 03:23:35 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:23:35 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 09:48:00 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:48:00 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007270948.01272.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:14:17 am Chad H did opine: > Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue > everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to > strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen > to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and > copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, > albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL > had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I > checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, > shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a > command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. > > Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer > driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. > Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would > like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the > printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. > > - Chad e Yes, that is one of the beauty's of the *os9 way. The descriptor can be set to output both a linefeed and a carriage return at the end of the line if the printer requires it. ISTR you can also set the page length such that a FormFeed is output on line xx, which will cause the printer to advance to TOF (top of form) on the next page of paper. I can recall doing printouts of stuff I was writing, and using that to keep the 'pages' from getting out of time with the tractor feed perforations on an Xerox 1650ro printer I still have but cannot get ribbon cartridges for any more. Its strike on the daisy wheel just shatters the ribbon of the 15 year old ribbons I have. Guard that old HP-540 well, most newer printers do not know what to do with plain old ascii. When I needed a printer for my coco3 a couple of years ago, all I could find that was black & white and cheap, was Brothers little $120 laser, so in order to print from the coco3, I send the listing to /p in the usual way, but at 9600 baud, which is fed to an FTDI 232 to USB convertor, then up the cables to this machine, where it is captured by a script I wrote, then through cups for rasterising, and that data then sent back to the Brother laser sitting on top of the coco3's desk, on the same usb extension cable & hub. It works fine except I have to use the tuneport facility to actually get 9600 baud as the printer drivers default at 'xmode /p bau=6' is about 15 kilobaud and the FTDI serial to USB device gets confused. It is 20x faster too, as that printer is a 22 ppm printer where the xerox, at 40cps, is about 1 page a minute. However, my 'end of document' detector in the script is 3 consecutive attempts to read data timing out and coming back empty, before the script hands the captured file over to cups to process and print, so the printer doesn't start its warmup cycle till about 4 seconds after the prompt in that shell comes back. It works, so that lag is a shrug. > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] > On Behalf Of Gene Heskett > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM > To: coco at maltedmedia.com > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > > Chad, > > > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. > > Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 > boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level > one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass > Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > > > Regards, Bob Devries > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chad H > > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > > > > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > > with joysticks? - Chad > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > > > > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > > > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > > > > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > > > REL KRN KRNP2 > > INIT BOOT IOMAN > > RBF RB1773 D0 > > D1 D2 DD > > SCF VTIO COVDG > > TERM SCBBP P > > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > > RB1773 > > D0 > > VTIO > > TERM > > IOMAN > > RBF > > SCF > > SYSGO > > CLOCK > > CLOCK2 > > SCBBT > > SCBBP > > COVDG > > > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > > > Thanks. > > > > - Chad > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > > -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Some people claim that the UNIX learning curve is steep, but at least you only have to climb it once. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 10:02:22 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:02:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> References: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:48:53 am Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the > DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device > (/P), like this: > > DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P > > If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you > can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to > set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before > the DISPLAY one. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to > learn English ;) Chuckle, yes I can imagine Bob. Its bad enough when two different dialects of English are talking. However I would add the caution that the printer driver, unless it has been fine tuned, needs a tuneport session in order to get above say 600 baud, with enough baud rate accuracy. I don't know if its because I have a 6309 in my coco3 or what, but at 9600 baud, the default bau=6 actually gets me about 15 kilobaud, and tuneport says the default timing is '13' but to get 9600, I have to use a value of 29 or 30. This checked by the timebase of my oscilloscope, something that not every one has. In my case, I could disable my script on this machine, then watch the leds on the adapter and tuneport till a valid speed is obtained as evidenced by the data leds on the adapter. If the speed is off by more than a few percent, the leds go dark and no data is sent. Sort of the hard way, but it could be made to work. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If you do not think about the future, you cannot have one. -- John Galsworthy From rod.barnhart at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 17:42:43 2010 From: rod.barnhart at gmail.com (Rod Barnhart) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:42:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] 6809 on Hack-A-Day Message-ID: Thought this might be of interest to the folks on this list: http://hackaday.com/2010/07/27/6809-computing/ -- Rod Barnhart From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:19:36 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:19:36 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? References: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Gene, If my memory serves, TunePort was a Level 2 programme, and was not available in Level 1. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Heskett To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:48:53 am Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the > DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device > (/P), like this: > > DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P > > If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you > can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to > set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before > the DISPLAY one. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to > learn English ;) Chuckle, yes I can imagine Bob. Its bad enough when two different dialects of English are talking. However I would add the caution that the printer driver, unless it has been fine tuned, needs a tuneport session in order to get above say 600 baud, with enough baud rate accuracy. I don't know if its because I have a 6309 in my coco3 or what, but at 9600 baud, the default bau=6 actually gets me about 15 kilobaud, and tuneport says the default timing is '13' but to get 9600, I have to use a value of 29 or 30. This checked by the timebase of my oscilloscope, something that not every one has. In my case, I could disable my script on this machine, then watch the leds on the adapter and tuneport till a valid speed is obtained as evidenced by the data leds on the adapter. If the speed is off by more than a few percent, the leds go dark and no data is sent. Sort of the hard way, but it could be made to work. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If you do not think about the future, you cannot have one. -- John Galsworthy -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From gene.heskett at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:38:29 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:38:29 -0400 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? In-Reply-To: References: <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201007271838.30250.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 06:22:52 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Gene, > > If my memory serves, TunePort was a Level 2 programme, and was not > available in Level 1. That might be, but ISTR I used it 25 years ago to make a serial to parallel adapter I'd picked up from some no-name I can remember place, and which has since gone on to that big graveyard after a lightning strike nearby, work as its preset speeds were off. After I got a scope at home, it turned out to like about 11.1 killobaud when its switch was set to 9600. But, I was then using os9 level 1 version 2, or whatever the little white book and disk release was called that upgraded the original release. The original really was pretty stripped. But you tickled my curiosity, so I pulled a boxed copy of the level 1 stuff out, and it indeed is not listed in the red book of os9 commands. But I know I had it and used it before getting a coco-3. I can only conclude that it was in the little white book upgrade. And I'd have to dig much deeper to find the one copy of that I have. Somewhere in about 8 filing boxes. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) I am having FUN... I wonder if it's NET FUN or GROSS FUN? From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:44:21 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad Hendon) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:44:21 -0500 Subject: [Coco] =?utf-8?q?OS-9_Floppy_/_Printer_configuration_=3F?= In-Reply-To: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:47:06 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad Hendon) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:47:06 -0500 Subject: [Coco] =?utf-8?q?OS-9_Floppy_/_Printer_configuration_=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> <201007271002.22712.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually TUNEPORT was on my level 1 NitrOS9 image but I haven't tried using it yet Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 22:19:36 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Gene, If my memory serves, TunePort was a Level 2 programme, and was not available in Level 1. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Heskett To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Tuesday, July 27, 2010 09:48:53 am Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the > DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device > (/P), like this: > > DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P > > If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you > can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to > set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before > the DISPLAY one. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, Bob Devries > Dalby, QLD, Australia > > PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to > learn English ;) Chuckle, yes I can imagine Bob. Its bad enough when two different dialects of English are talking. However I would add the caution that the printer driver, unless it has been fine tuned, needs a tuneport session in order to get above say 600 baud, with enough baud rate accuracy. I don't know if its because I have a 6309 in my coco3 or what, but at 9600 baud, the default bau=6 actually gets me about 15 kilobaud, and tuneport says the default timing is '13' but to get 9600, I have to use a value of 29 or 30. This checked by the timebase of my oscilloscope, something that not every one has. In my case, I could disable my script on this machine, then watch the leds on the adapter and tuneport till a valid speed is obtained as evidenced by the data leds on the adapter. If the speed is off by more than a few percent, the leds go dark and no data is sent. Sort of the hard way, but it could be made to work. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If you do not think about the future, you cannot have one. -- John Galsworthy -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 18:53:37 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:53:37 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: Chad, you said: > I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Yes, that's right. Hehe, the problem with trying to teach my wife English is that she has what you might call a pre-existing condition..... Filipino English and Australian English (AKA STRINE) are poles apart, and her grammar is further warped by her mother-language Tagalog, which uses completely different sentence construction. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Hendon To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 27 19:19:29 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:19:29 -0500 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? In-Reply-To: References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: Tagalog?? Wonder if that bears any resemblance to what we in the US sometimes refer to as "Pig Latin" hmmm. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:54 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Chad, you said: > I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Yes, that's right. Hehe, the problem with trying to teach my wife English is that she has what you might call a pre-existing condition..... Filipino English and Australian English (AKA STRINE) are poles apart, and her grammar is further warped by her mother-language Tagalog, which uses completely different sentence construction. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Hendon To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 19:31:34 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:31:34 +1000 Subject: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? References: <6CD9D29712A04811A7C84481D50C39A6@master><201007262353.00149.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <165EA1645C5043B7AA48DAB95D514B9D@master> Message-ID: <5A6FFCE2B76A43849944557B3329397C@master> Hi Chad, Tagalog is the official language of the Philippines. It was originally just one of the languages of the island of Luzon (where Manila is), but became the defacto language of the whole country. The Philippines government has tried to make a new language (Filipino) which is based on Tagalog and other languages, including Spanish, but it has failed to "take". Regards, Bob Devries ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Tagalog?? Wonder if that bears any resemblance to what we in the US sometimes refer to as "Pig Latin" hmmm. -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Bob Devries Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:54 PM To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Chad, you said: > I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Yes, that's right. Hehe, the problem with trying to teach my wife English is that she has what you might call a pre-existing condition..... Filipino English and Australian English (AKA STRINE) are poles apart, and her grammar is further warped by her mother-language Tagalog, which uses completely different sentence construction. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Hendon To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration ? Lol thanks...not sure how to take the 'wife learning english' comparison though. I'm guessing the DISPLAY is sending hex codes in your example? Connected by MOTOBLUR? on T-Mobile -----Original message----- From: Bob Devries To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 07:23:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Chad, One way to snd an initialisation string to your printer is using the DISPLAY command, and redirecting thae output to the printer device (/P), like this: DISPLAY 1B 35 20 >/P If you need to have that done everytime you boot the DeskMate disk, you can put it into your STARTUP file, along with the XMODE command line to set the baud rate. Of course, the XMODE command should go first, before the DISPLAY one. Hope that helps. Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia PS: hehe, helping you with NitrOS9 is easier than helping my wife to learn English ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad H To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? Thanks you're your help with the floppy drive config/OS-9 issue everyone, sorry if there was any confusion. I was finally able to strip down NitrOS9 enough using SAVE to extract the modules and OS9Gen to get what I needed back into a new boot disk (which was DS 360k) and copied over the entire DeskMate files to that disk. Only other issue, albeit a small one, was that deskmate refused to load at bootup. SHELL had to load first before DeskMate would load properly....weird. I checked the original DeskMate disk and this wasn't the case with it, shell didn't load until you exited DeskMate. No biggy, I just type a command once at the OS9 prompt to load it. Now....I will see if I can figure out something on the Printer driver...should be a bit easier since I got this far on NitrOS9 I hope. Setting the Baud rate at 1200 should be easy I'm thinking but I would like to have the driver set a initialization ASCII string to the printer (for CRLF, etc.) before it prints....if this is even possible. - Chad e -----Original Message----- From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Gene Heskett Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:53 PM To: coco at maltedmedia.com Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? On Monday, July 26, 2010 11:49:47 pm Bob Devries did opine: > Chad, > > I *think* the joystick routines are built into the VTIO module. Unlike > Level 2 NitrOS9, they are not a separate entity/module. Then I am incorrect, Bob. Its been yonks since I last built a level 1 boot disk, and so far back that Nitros9 hadn't made it back to level one hardware. That was when I last made a new boot disk for the Grass Valley E-DISK emulator I had written in 1985. > Regards, Bob Devries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad H > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > > Update... I went back and added the SHELL to the OS9Gen and it > finally booted. DeskMate did load from this NitrOS9. However, it > acted like there was no joystick attached. Which NitrOS9 module deals > with joysticks? - Chad > > -----Original Message----- > From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com > [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Chad H > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42 PM > To: 'CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts' > Subject: Re: [Coco] OS-9 Floppy / Printer configuration? > > Ok, I've backed up a little bit. My current thinking tells me the > easiest way to get a slimmed down "OS-9" that works well with > Double-sided drives is going to be to take the NitrOS9 and strip out > the bootstrap modules I don't need. I've been toying around with > saving the original bootstrap modules and then using OS9Gen to rebuild > the bootstrap leaving out some of the modules. So far, I've only > gotten a NitrOS9 copyright screen but it goes no further. > > Here was the last list of original bootstrap modules... > > REL KRN KRNP2 > INIT BOOT IOMAN > RBF RB1773 D0 > D1 D2 DD > SCF VTIO COVDG > TERM SCBBP P > SCBBT T1 PIPEMAN > PIPER PIPE CLOCK > CLOCK2 SYSGO SHELL > > > > Latest OS9Gen I used included... > RB1773 > D0 > VTIO > TERM > IOMAN > RBF > SCF > SYSGO > CLOCK > CLOCK2 > SCBBT > SCBBP > COVDG > > This resulted in bootup to NitrOS9 logo...went no further > > Which modules are a must to include for proper bootup?! > > Thanks. > > - Chad > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From sturner58 at rocketmail.com Wed Jul 28 11:57:53 2010 From: sturner58 at rocketmail.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] New to this list Message-ID: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. Talk to you all soon. Steve From gene.heskett at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 13:48:54 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:48:54 -0400 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Wednesday, July 28, 2010 01:47:08 pm Steve Turner did opine: > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, > basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be > reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. > If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears > to be a zillion messages. > Not quite a zillion, Steve, and welcome to the list. > Talk to you all soon. > Steve -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) A bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back the when it begins to rain. -- Robert Frost From asa.rand at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 14:04:35 2010 From: asa.rand at gmail.com (Wayne Campbell) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:04:35 -0700 Subject: [Coco] New to this list References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <30FCC411507741EFA6CFF365A701F02A@asarand> Welcome to the list, Steve. You will find yourself remembering things you'd forgotten, learning things you never knew, and making many new friends here. The CoCo, the 6809, CB, ECB, DECB, OS-9 and NitrOS-9 pull many of us together, though we are sometimes a half-a-world away. Don't sweat the already asked questions. People here can help point you in the right direction. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Turner" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:57 AM Subject: [Coco] New to this list > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, > basically > got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though > the > list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something > that's > been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. > > Talk to you all soon. > Steve > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com Wed Jul 28 14:18:39 2010 From: Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com (Linux Rules) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:18:39 -0500 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C50747F.9080701@austin.rr.com> On 7/28/2010 12:48 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday, July 28, 2010 01:47:08 pm Steve Turner did opine: > > >> I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, >> basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be >> reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. >> If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears >> to be a zillion messages. >> >> > Not quite a zillion, Steve, and welcome to the list. > for i = 1 to 2 then Messages = zillion - i next i (gin) Welcome for sure; I'm buried under the traffic too! But what a great problem to have........ johnd > >> Talk to you all soon. >> Steve >> > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3034 - Release Date: 07/28/10 03:37:00 > > From Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com Wed Jul 28 14:24:43 2010 From: Linux-Rules at austin.rr.com (Linux Rules) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:24:43 -0500 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <4C50747F.9080701@austin.rr.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <201007281348.55253.gene.heskett@gmail.com> <4C50747F.9080701@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: <4C5075EB.7000800@austin.rr.com> On 7/28/2010 1:18 PM, Linux Rules wrote: > On 7/28/2010 12:48 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: >> On Wednesday, July 28, 2010 01:47:08 pm Steve Turner did opine: >> >>> I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, >>> basically got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be >>> reading though the list and going through the archives as I have time. >>> If I ask something that's been asked before, forgive me. There appears >>> to be a zillion messages. >>> >> Not quite a zillion, Steve, and welcome to the list. > > for i = 1 to 2 then > Messages = zillion - i > next i > > (gin) OOPS, make that (gRin)!!! Must have gotten tired eyes reading all the stuff from the amazing folks on the list......D'oh. > > Welcome for sure; I'm buried under the traffic too! > But what a great problem to have........ > johnd From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 14:48:38 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:48:38 -0400 Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Welcome! I just got (back) into the CoCo last year and this list has been by far the greatest resource in coming up to speed. It's my experience that somebody here will know just about anything there is to know about the CoCo. Don't be afraid to ask questions, I think most of us have fun talking about coco stuff even if it has been discussed before.. I know I do :) Can I ask if you were a kid when you got your start with the CoCo? A few of us on IRC were recently discussing what may be a trend (wouldn't that be great), people who had a CoCo when they were young and are now returning after 15-20 years. There are a few of us in that boat. -Aaron On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Steve Turner wrote: > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, basically > got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though the > list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something that's > been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. > > Talk to you all soon. > Steve > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From sturner58 at rocketmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:07:33 2010 From: sturner58 at rocketmail.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] New to this list In-Reply-To: References: <343409.1287.qm@web120407.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <682058.99176.qm@web120415.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks Aaron and everyone for the welcome! Lot's of fun stuff to do, not nearly enough time. I'm on vacation right now, but hope to be more active when I get back home. I know I'll have some questions.:) Steve ________________________________ From: Aaron Wolfe To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 11:48:38 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] New to this list Welcome! I just got (back) into the CoCo last year and this list has been by far the greatest resource in coming up to speed. It's my experience that somebody here will know just about anything there is to know about the CoCo. Don't be afraid to ask questions, I think most of us have fun talking about coco stuff even if it has been discussed before.. I know I do :) Can I ask if you were a kid when you got your start with the CoCo? A few of us on IRC were recently discussing what may be a trend (wouldn't that be great), people who had a CoCo when they were young and are now returning after 15-20 years. There are a few of us in that boat. -Aaron On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Steve Turner wrote: > I'm new to this list and wanted to say hi. I'm not new to computers, basically > got my start on the coco. Nice to see the interest. I'll be reading though the > list and going through the archives as I have time. If I ask something that's > been asked before, forgive me. There appears to be a zillion messages. > > Talk to you all soon. > Steve > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From steve at batsonphotography.com Wed Jul 28 19:10:19 2010 From: steve at batsonphotography.com (Steve Batson) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:10:19 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to be getting through........ Message-ID: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:20:17 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:20:17 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to be getting through........ In-Reply-To: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> References: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> Message-ID: This one made it. However, the last I have from you seems to be March 24th (unless I deleted something, usually don't) On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Steve Batson wrote: > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From devries.bob at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:21:21 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:21:21 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ References: <5e519dff$39c0c3e7$34125124$@com> Message-ID: Well, that one did. Remember, you will not see your own messages unless you have that option set in your preferences on maltedmedia. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 AM Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From steve at batsonphotography.com Wed Jul 28 19:23:50 2010 From: steve at batsonphotography.com (Steve Batson) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:23:50 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ Message-ID: <42a091f7$7b7a5c93$7d174df3$@com> I did just see that...I sent one the other day with a question from my iPhone and it didn't seem to get through. Maybe the list didn't like the server it was being sent from. The one that went through was sent from my normal webmail client. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bob Devries" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:21 PM To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Subject: Re: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ Well, that one did. Remember, you will not see your own messages unless you have that option set in your preferences on maltedmedia. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 AM Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From devries.bob at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:39:27 2010 From: devries.bob at gmail.com (Bob Devries) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:39:27 +1000 Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seemto begetting through........ References: <42a091f7$7b7a5c93$7d174df3$@com> Message-ID: <78863A970BCF4E5BB2DC51849DBB3A60@master> The list will only accept messages from the email address which you used to subscribe. If your iPhone uses a different email address from your normal webmail, it will be ignored. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seemto begetting through........ I did just see that...I sent one the other day with a question from my iPhone and it didn't seem to get through. Maybe the list didn't like the server it was being sent from. The one that went through was sent from my normal webmail client. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bob Devries" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:21 PM To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Subject: Re: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ Well, that one did. Remember, you will not see your own messages unless you have that option set in your preferences on maltedmedia. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Batson To: coco at maltedmedia.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 AM Subject: [Coco] Is there trouble with the list? my messages don't seem to begetting through........ -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 19:50:22 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:50:22 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork Message-ID: I was working on improving some scans of The Color Computer Magazine tonight and happened to notice an interview with Mr. Steve Bjork entitled "Playin' Around" (Feb 84) The picture on the first page is awesome.. Steve at age 25, sitting on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full on 80s tie. Man that takes me back. Makes you appreciate how much has changed in ~30 years. Those were good times. It's a good interview with details about all kinds of CoCo games. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks again Steve! I'll never forget the first computer program I ever saw in person: Popcorn, with Steve Bjork on the title screen :) -Aaron From alsplace at pobox.com Wed Jul 28 20:02:29 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:02:29 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > The picture on the first page is awesome.. Steve at age 25, sitting > on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full > on 80s tie. Man that takes me back. Makes you appreciate how much > has changed in ~30 years. Those were good times. I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were cranking out so much software. If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? -- Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 From aawolfe at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 20:39:51 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> References: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman wrote: > On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. > > I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were cranking out so much software. > > If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) FWIW, you can read the article online here: https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) it's on page 86. I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or download. I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on boring jobs. google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you open them. Not ideal but maybe useful. > -- > Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: > https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 > > Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! > Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com > Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From alsplace at pobox.com Wed Jul 28 20:54:01 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:54:01 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: <1E727F25-DDDD-47C8-B402-5736C5D324E6@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" > rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) Wait, isn't that the article where he said it was a "piece of cake" to program? :-) (oops) -- Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 From badfrog at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 23:02:48 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:02:48 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: After loving it in the arcade, I remember being EXTREMELY disappointed with my Atari 2600 copy of Zaxxon. Then when I finally got the CoCo version a year or two later, it's like all was well again with the world. And the name "Steve Bjork" became one of my heroes. Still haven't had the chance to play Z'89 though. I remember the Rainbow ads for it and wanted it desperately. It was really hard getting my parents to buy a game! On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > I was working on improving some scans of The Color Computer Magazine > tonight and happened to notice an interview with Mr. Steve Bjork > entitled "Playin' Around" (Feb 84) > > The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting > on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full > on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much > has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. > > It's a good interview with details about all kinds of CoCo games. ?I > enjoyed reading it. ?Thanks again Steve! ?I'll never forget the first > computer program I ever saw in person: Popcorn, with Steve Bjork on > the title screen ?:) > > -Aaron > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From chadbh74 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 28 23:34:36 2010 From: chadbh74 at hotmail.com (Chad H) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:34:36 -0500 Subject: [Coco] CoCo keyboard can't keep up? Message-ID: Hey guys, another question.. Sometimes I get a little quick on the CoCo keyboard and I get extra characters displayed in addition to the ones I'm typing and they are nowhere near the keys I'm pressing. If I slow down all is good. Anyone know what this could be? It happens in DECB & OS9/NitrOS9 just the same. - Chad From mmarlette at frontiernet.net Thu Jul 29 07:33:19 2010 From: mmarlette at frontiernet.net (Mark Marlette) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:33:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <349082704.368167.1280403199140.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> I **think** that is the article that asks Steve who is his favorite programmer?..Reply, I am...or something like that. I loved it, killer response! Aaron, it was a GREAT article and does take a person back in time. I need to go back and read it again! Just to mention a few of these people that molded our lives..... Terry Ritter, John Dumas, Don Weiss on the hardware side, Steve Bjork and many others on the software side. Not sure about others but I do think about what if...We never had this machine or these people that dedicated so much of their life to this processor/machine! Thank you all! Regards, Mark Cloud-9 ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Huffman To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts Sent: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:54:01 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork On Jul 28, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" > rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) Wait, isn't that the article where he said it was a "piece of cake" to program? :-) (oops) -- Help me get more storage! Get a free 2GB "Dropbox" account (PC, Mac, iPhone, etc.) here: https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTY4MjgyMDQ5 Over 125,000 digital pics from Disney, Theme Parks, and Ren Fests! Visit http://www.AtTheFaire.com or http://www.DisneyFans.com Use this and I earn credit on travel/car/hotel discounts: http://travel.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=59226 -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From robert.gault at att.net Thu Jul 29 08:36:45 2010 From: robert.gault at att.net (Robert Gault) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:36:45 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo keyboard can't keep up? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C5175DD.7040709@att.net> Chad H wrote: > Hey guys, another question.. > > Sometimes I get a little quick on the CoCo keyboard and I get extra > characters displayed in addition to the ones I'm typing and they are nowhere > near the keys I'm pressing. If I slow down all is good. Anyone know what > this could be? It happens in DECB& OS9/NitrOS9 just the same. > > > > - Chad Depends on what you were pressing and what you saw. There are characters generated using simultaneous key strokes for both DECB and OS-9. Depending on the ROM (DECB) and version OS-9, you might be getting some form of editing or repeat keys. So, you are going to need to experiment. Deliberately attempt to recreate the problem by entering simultaneous key strokes. When you locate a combination of keys that produce the unexpected characters, post the OS being used and the key sequence. From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 09:31:30 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:31:30 -0400 Subject: [Coco] CoCo keyboard can't keep up? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007290931.31126.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday, July 29, 2010 09:21:45 am Chad H did opine: > Hey guys, another question.. > > Sometimes I get a little quick on the CoCo keyboard and I get extra > characters displayed in addition to the ones I'm typing and they are > nowhere near the keys I'm pressing. If I slow down all is good. > Anyone know what this could be? It happens in DECB & OS9/NitrOS9 just > the same. > That is an un-avoidable artifact of the speed of the matrix scan when the coco scans the keyboard. Unlike modern keyboards, there is no key down or key up events sent, just the xy position in the matrix of crosspoints that is the keyboard itself. If a 2nd key is pressed before the first is released, you will get odd results. FWIW, modern keyboards have their own gotchas in that regard. I spend as much time correcting spelling mistakes as typing it in the first place because these old fingers don't always hit a key dead on and touch an adjacent key too. Or the repeat delay gets skipped and I get 'eeee' for a single press before the finger backs up. > > - Chad > > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) One Bell System - it used to work before they installed the Dimension! From gene.heskett at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 09:42:43 2010 From: gene.heskett at gmail.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:42:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <349082704.368167.1280403199140.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <349082704.368167.1280403199140.JavaMail.root@cl02-host03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <201007290942.43651.gene.heskett@gmail.com> On Thursday, July 29, 2010 09:32:10 am Mark Marlette did opine: > I **think** that is the article that asks Steve who is his favorite > programmer?..Reply, I am...or something like that. > > I loved it, killer response! Aaron, it was a GREAT article and does take > a person back in time. I need to go back and read it again! > > Just to mention a few of these people that molded our lives..... > > Terry Ritter, John Dumas, Don Weiss on the hardware side, Steve Bjork > and many others on the software side. > > Not sure about others but I do think about what if...We never had this > machine or these people that dedicated so much of their life to this > processor/machine! > > Thank you all! > > Regards, > > Mark > Cloud-9 We would, Mark, all of us, be much the poorer for never having known the coco. And its just as likely we would not be able to look back fondly at a circle of friends that has endured, in my case, for about 25 years, fully 1/3rd of my life. Some of us have likely never met face to face, but we are still friends none the less. There are some machines that have that enduring magic to some. For me that magic was first in the coco, then the amiga, but it has faded, while the coco endures. Yeah, I'm running linux these days, but my coco-3 is alive and reasonable well, sitting in the basement with only the monitor turned off right now. If I was root, I'd have perms to access /dev/ttyS1 and log into it from here with a session of minicom. I gotta fix that... -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) A billion here, a billion there -- pretty soon it adds up to real money. -- Sen. Everett Dirksen, on the U.S. defense budget From steve at batsonphotography.com Thu Jul 29 12:03:21 2010 From: steve at batsonphotography.com (Steve Batson) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:03:21 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? Message-ID: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, etc. I have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac and a few PCs. I'm thinking it would be fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to connect. Would be great If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what you think. Thanks Steve Batson steve at batsonphotography.com http://www.batsonphotography.com From fwp at deepthought.com Thu Jul 29 12:31:13 2010 From: fwp at deepthought.com (Frank Pittel) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:31:13 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> Message-ID: <20100729163113.GA16334@warlock.deepthought.com> I've been running nitros 9 in VCC under linux using wine. It works well once you figure out how the keyboard is mapped. the other Frank On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:03:21AM -0700, Steve Batson wrote: > I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, > etc. > > I > have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will > run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac > and a few PCs. > > I'm thinking it would be > fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. > Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to > connect. Would be great > If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what > you think. > > Thanks > > Steve Batson > steve at batsonphotography.com > http://www.batsonphotography.com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From dragonbytes at cox.net Thu Jul 29 12:46:08 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:46:08 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> Message-ID: <8DC05EE9-74F4-424F-9EC1-B6E7EF6C8B27@cox.net> In my opinion, the best CoCo3 emulator out there is VCC, but its for windows only. For an intel mac, the best way to go is MESS. All you'll need is a CoCo3 ROM file. Good luck and enjoy! - Todd Wallace On Jul 29, 2010, at 12:03 PM, Steve Batson wrote: > I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, > etc. > > I > have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will > run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac > and a few PCs. > > I'm thinking it would be > fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. > Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to > connect. Would be great > If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what > you think. > > Thanks > > Steve Batson > steve at batsonphotography.com > http://www.batsonphotography.com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From badfrog at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 13:13:57 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:13:57 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <20100729163113.GA16334@warlock.deepthought.com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> <20100729163113.GA16334@warlock.deepthought.com> Message-ID: Has anyone figured out where the VCC homepage went? On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Frank Pittel wrote: > I've been running nitros 9 in VCC under linux using wine. It works well > once you figure out how the keyboard is mapped. > > the other Frank > > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:03:21AM -0700, Steve Batson wrote: >> I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, >> etc. >> >> I >> ?have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will >> ?run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac >> and a few PCs. >> >> I'm thinking it would be >> ?fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. >> Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to >> connect. Would be great >> If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what >> you think. >> >> Thanks >> >> Steve Batson >> steve at batsonphotography.com >> http://www.batsonphotography.com >> >> -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From cappy2112 at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 14:35:45 2010 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:35:45 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? Message-ID: Message: 16 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:03:21 -0700 From: "Steve Batson" Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" Message-ID: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@ com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>I'm thinking it would be fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. >>Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to >>connect. You don't have any choice with an emulator, you can't really connect an MPI or cartridges, you can only run the ROMS, disk or cassette images. I've run VCC on my windows 7 laptop just fine, but I have also run MESS, Jeff Vavasour's(sp??) emulator and David Keil's emulators under DOS. I should try those in Vmware with a DOS image to see if/how they run at all. I prefer to stay in Windows than to have to boot to dos, especially since all the COCO documentation is on my Windows partition in PDF. From dragonbytes at cox.net Thu Jul 29 14:55:13 2010 From: dragonbytes at cox.net (Todd Wallace) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:55:13 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > You don't have any choice with an emulator, you can't really connect an MPI > or cartridges, you can only run the ROMS, disk or cassette images. Actually VCC can emulate a MPI just fine :) - Todd Wallace On Jul 29, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:03:21 -0700 > From: "Steve Batson" > Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Message-ID: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@ > com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> I'm thinking it would be fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do > it on an emulator. >>> Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to >>> connect. > > You don't have any choice with an emulator, you can't really connect an MPI > or cartridges, you can only run the ROMS, disk or cassette images. > > I've run VCC on my windows 7 laptop just fine, but I have also run MESS, > Jeff Vavasour's(sp??) emulator and David Keil's emulators under DOS. > > I should try those in Vmware with a DOS image to see if/how they run at all. > I prefer to stay in Windows than to have to boot to dos, especially since > all the COCO documentation is on my Windows partition in PDF. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco From petrander at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 15:59:43 2010 From: petrander at gmail.com (Fedor Steeman) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:59:43 +0200 Subject: [Coco] scary old code In-Reply-To: <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> References: <20100721232839.GB18235@virgo.sdc.org> <15B6B511-9D0D-4166-AA64-86D7C899507E@zaphod.tzo.com> Message-ID: I agree that the environment on modern computers is hardly as inviting to starting to program as it was in the eighties. Pointing and clicking makes lifes easier, but does not leave the user with the impression that one can actually WRITE down a sequence of instructions for the computer to execute whenever desired. Still there is Scratch from MIT that is pretty cool. Anyone try that? http://scratch.mit.edu/ I already have my kids started programming with that. It has its limits, but it conveys all the important fundamental programming concepts like loops, variables, objects, etc. What's more: You get really quickly instantaneous results, which gives a highly motivating immediate visual feedback. Once they are old enough I could try to introduce them something like BlitzMax, which is a cross-platform compiler for a Basic dialect called BlitzBasic which is pretty straightforward, specialized on graphics effects and also yields immediate results. Cheers, Fedor On 22 July 2010 18:13, Rob Rosenbrock wrote: > I actually have fond memories of the book that came with the Model I. Well > written, and fun to follow. As a kid, I quickly learned BASIC. 'Ready' and > 'OK' still seem an inviting prompt. > > After learning the "right" way to program, I found it hard to start coding. > Sort of like that old canard about whether you start walking with your left > or right foot, and you end up tripping over your feet. > > I have asked many times how someone would begin today. There are no BASIC > interpreters these days, just the visual environments where the initial > focus is on the structure and appearance of windows and dialog boxes. Code > becomes scattered across so many modules that a program doesn't resemble a > program. Regardless of the language, the concepts just don't seem apparent. > > The original authors of BASIC, Kemeny and Kurtz, released something called > TrueBASIC, and I guess that's still available. It is still very much an > interpreter, but the language has been improved and does not rely on line > numbers. It was targeted for education, but I can't see it being used in > anything other than an introductory role these days. > > > On Jul 22, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: > > > I think most of us who were introduced to the world of programming via > > the CoCo probably have some very bad code on a disk or tape somewhere. > > The CoCo makes it so easy to start programming that you can get ahead > > of yourself, writing code that is beyond your own skill level by trial > > and error. I don't think that's a bad thing... doing something the > > wrong way helps you appreciate the right way once you figure it out. > > > > I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want them to have the same > > experience. Sure, you might pick up a couple bad habits by learning > > on your own, but those are easily corrected. The insight you gain > > from learning on a machine like the CoCo is priceless. On a modern > > computer, I don't know how a kid would even start to learn > > programming. With the CoCo, it's instantly ready for you to > > experiment. The BASIC manuals were a big part of it too, they really > > encouraged you to try things and explained each step without becoming > > a boring computer book. I wonder if there is anything done that well > > for kids (or even adults) today. > > > > Anyway, don't feel bad or ashamed of old code that's poorly done, > > after all, simply knowing that it's bad indicates you've learned new > > things and grown as a programmer. If you look at code from years > > prior and cannot see problems with it, you've stopped learning. (or > > you are one heck of a programmer :) > > > > -Aaron > > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 29 16:12:54 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:12:54 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:02:48PM -0500, Sean wrote: > Still haven't had the chance to play Z'89 though. I remember the > Rainbow ads for it and wanted it desperately. It was really hard > getting my parents to buy a game! > Z'89 kicks @$$! I'm not the best Zaxxon player ever, it took me a decade or so to beat CoCo Zaxxon, and I can't even make it through the first fortress in Z'89. Maybe one of the friendly people on this list has an extra copy they'll sell you. It's how I got mine. (Thanks again!) Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From badfrog at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 16:30:38 2010 From: badfrog at gmail.com (Sean) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:30:38 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: No floppy drive anymore, that's why I haven't bought it. Hopefully someday he'll release a version for the emulators, or better yet for Drivewire or Drive Pak. I could get through at least the 2nd robot in the arcade back in the day. Good times! On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:02:48PM -0500, Sean wrote: >> Still haven't had the chance to play Z'89 though. ?I remember the >> Rainbow ads for it and wanted it desperately. ?It was really hard >> getting my parents to buy a game! >> > Z'89 kicks @$$! ?I'm not the best Zaxxon player ever, it took me a > decade or so to beat CoCo Zaxxon, and I can't even make it through the > first fortress in Z'89. > > Maybe one of the friendly people on this list has an extra copy > they'll sell you. ? It's how I got mine. ?(Thanks again!) > > Willard > -- > Willard Goosey ?goosey at sdc.org > Socorro, New Mexico, USA > I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. > ?-- R.E. Howard > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From aawolfe at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 17:59:53 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:59:53 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Emulators and Nitros 9? In-Reply-To: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> References: <67630f13$6ab172c1$218d2d6$@com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Steve Batson wrote: > I was always a RS-DOS person so don't know anything really about OS-9, > etc. > > I > ?have a real coco 2 and a 3, but wondering if and how well Nitros 9 will > ?run on the emulators and which one is best. I have an Intel based iMac > and a few PCs. > > I'm thinking it would be > ?fun to mess with Nitros 9, but would like to do it on an emulator. > Feedback would be great. I don't have a bunch of hardware I want to > connect. Would be great > If printer and other basics on the host were available. Let me know what > you think. > NitrOS9 works fine in MESS and VCC, as others have mentioned. As for "printer and other basics"... well sort of. This is one area that I think both emulators could do better on. MESS will send bitbanger output to a file, so printing is sort of possible. That is the only communication you can do with the outside world, and it's one way. I'm not sure what VCC's capabilities in that area are, but they were similarly limited last I checked.. no two way communication between emulator and outside world. So, depending on what you meant by "other basics", you might be happy in an emulator or you might be frustrated :) If you're comfortable with patching and building things from source, John Linville wrote a patch for MESS that gives you two way communications via a FIFO tied to a TCP socket. > Thanks > > Steve Batson > steve at batsonphotography.com > http://www.batsonphotography.com > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Thu Jul 29 19:30:51 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:30:51 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:30:38PM -0500, Sean wrote: > No floppy drive anymore, that's why I haven't bought it. Hopefully > someday he'll release a version for the emulators, or better yet for > Drivewire or Drive Pak. > Yeah, that could be an issue. :-) I wish I could back up my copy. Socorro doesn't have the most reliable power grid in the universe, and one lightning strike when I'm playing Z'89 could be the end of a nearly-irreplacable disk. :-( Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From alsplace at pobox.com Thu Jul 29 19:50:01 2010 From: alsplace at pobox.com (Allen Huffman) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:50:01 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> Message-ID: <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> On Jul 29, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: > I wish I could back up my copy. Carl England's DEFEATER can, I am sure. > Socorro doesn't have the most > reliable power grid in the universe, and one lightning strike when I'm > playing Z'89 could be the end of a nearly-irreplacable disk. :-( U.P.S., my friend. Even the cheap APC or Belkin ones you can find for around $40-$50 should power a CoCo and drives (monitor, etc. can go to normal surge side). I have my video stuff (TiVo, etc.) on a UPS, my computer, and my internet stuff -- even have a UPS for my CoCO gear for when I get it out of storage. -- A From mechacoco at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 20:15:33 2010 From: mechacoco at gmail.com (Darren A) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:15:33 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> Message-ID: On 7/29/10, Allen Huffman wrote: > On Jul 29, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Willard Goosey wrote: >> I wish I could back up my copy. > > Carl England's DEFEATER can, I am sure. > --- Carl England has a newer product called BACKUP MAGIC which is much easier to use than the DEFEATER: http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Backup_Magic The problem is figuring out how to purchase a copy of BACKUP MAGIC. Darren From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com Thu Jul 29 20:35:58 2010 From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:35:58 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Backup Magic (Was: Good Memories with Mr. Bjork) In-Reply-To: References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> Message-ID: <47EB88FF-3E70-40F3-93BF-EB6BC29A8DA5@jeanpaulsamson.com> On Jul. 29, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Darren A wrote: > Carl England has a newer product called BACKUP MAGIC which is much > easier to use than the DEFEATER: > > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Backup_Magic > > The problem is figuring out how to purchase a copy of BACKUP MAGIC. I bought a copy of Backup Magic three years ago directly from Carl. He is a subscriber to this list. (Hint: Log in to the subscriber list and search for someone with the name "Spock" in his e-mail address-- that's him.) The CoCo subscriber list log in can be found here: I had to send him a money order and get a copy of the floppy by mail, so the distribution is still decidedly low tech. Backup Magic successfully made bootable copies of only a few of my protected game disks. It failed on: Kyum-Gai: To Be Ninja (Sundog Systems) Buzzard Bait (Tom Mix) Sailor Man (Tim Mix) Time Bandit (Michtron) It did succeed on: Sinistaar (Sundog Systems) Warrior King (Sundog Systems) On Aug. 31, 2007, at 6:11 PM, carl j england wrote: > Backup Magic requires a CoCo3 and two disk drives. Can be used to > backup MOST Copy-Protected disks. Can also be used to transfer the > Copy-Protected disk to your PC (PC must have a floppy drive--has > only been tested using David Kiel's emulator). The "real" copy is a > duplicate of the original and is also Copy-Protected. The emulator > copy will have a "virtual" copy-protection. It cannot be copied using > the emulator, but can be copied under DOS or Windows. > > The price for Backup Magic is $25 (includes shipping) -- JP From keeper63 at cox.net Thu Jul 29 23:03:45 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:03:45 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> All, I have just posted to my website a writeup about an article I found in the April 1984 issue of Color Computer magazine on Aaron Wolfe's website, CoCoCoding. Aaron had linked to his website about another issue in regards to Mr. Bjork's sitting on a quad at age 25 (interesting article and pictures, that!). I started reading thru some of the other issues - and found the Armabot! It was an article on interfacing the Armatron to the Color Computer, something I knew had been done before (there were advertisements for such conversions in the Rainbow, for instance, by Analog Micro Systems), but I had not seen any discussion on how to actually do it (there was an article series about something called the ROS which detailed a general bus interface geared toward robotics - but this had nothing to do with the Armatron, AFAIK). So - I "ripped" a copy of the article and made a PDF of it, and put it on my website, here: http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/106 I credit Aaron Wolfe's website and his collection, as well as the magazine issue; I hope this is OK - I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, I just collect and archive articles on my website dealing with interfacing the Armatron to computers - there were quite a few projects of this nature during that time period. I wanted to announce it here, in case anyone was interested! -- Andrew L. Ayers Glendale, Arizona http://www.phoenixgarage.org/ > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 > From: Aaron Wolfe > Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman wrote: >> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >>> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >>> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >>> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >>> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. >> I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were cranking out so much software. >> >> If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? >> > > Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" > rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) > > FWIW, you can read the article online here: > https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine > > (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) it's on page 86. > > I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots > of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or > download. I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on > boring jobs. google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you > can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. > Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like > they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the > matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you > open them. Not ideal but maybe useful. From sales at gimechip.com Thu Jul 29 23:27:15 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:27:15 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing References: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> Message-ID: <84B0DCE5B71C4B1B80F627141AC0AC00@hackersafa71ff> That particular article in Color Computer Magazine was one of several that detailed the computer control of an Armatron. When my dad gave me all of his CoCo Stuff, that article along with the one in Hot CoCo and Radio-Electronics prompted me to seek out some Armatrons (I've got 6 of them, but haven't converted any as yet). The ROS article that you mention, if I remember correctly, was in Hot CoCo and was part of James J. Barbarello's "Hardware Hacker" series. It was for controlling an Armatron as well. James did a whole series, the first of which was a PIA Pak for interfacing the rest of the series to the CoCo and part of the series detailed an Armatron Connection to his PIA Port Cartridge. If I can find the articles, I'll scan them for you if you like. The article in Radio-Electronics detailed how to connect one to a VIC-20 and if I'm not mistaken, the VIC-20 article mounted the Armatron to a piece of plywood with the motors external (connected by plastic "drive" shafts). I'll see if I can find that one too. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew" To: Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > All, > > I have just posted to my website a writeup about an article I found in > the April 1984 issue of Color Computer magazine on Aaron Wolfe's > website, CoCoCoding. Aaron had linked to his website about another issue > in regards to Mr. Bjork's sitting on a quad at age 25 (interesting > article and pictures, that!). I started reading thru some of the other > issues - and found the Armabot! > > It was an article on interfacing the Armatron to the Color Computer, > something I knew had been done before (there were advertisements for > such conversions in the Rainbow, for instance, by Analog Micro Systems), > but I had not seen any discussion on how to actually do it (there was an > article series about something called the ROS which detailed a general > bus interface geared toward robotics - but this had nothing to do with > the Armatron, AFAIK). > > So - I "ripped" a copy of the article and made a PDF of it, and put it > on my website, here: > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/106 > > I credit Aaron Wolfe's website and his collection, as well as the > magazine issue; I hope this is OK - I am not trying to step on anyone's > toes, I just collect and archive articles on my website dealing with > interfacing the Armatron to computers - there were quite a few projects > of this nature during that time period. > > I wanted to announce it here, in case anyone was interested! > > -- Andrew L. Ayers > Glendale, Arizona > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/ > > >> Message: 8 >> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 >> From: Aaron Wolfe >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman >> wrote: >>> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >>>> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >>>> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >>>> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >>>> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. >>> I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm >>> dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were >>> cranking out so much software. >>> >>> If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever >>> show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls >>> on the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert >>> Rider? >>> >> >> Another interesting bit of trivia. I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" >> rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) >> >> FWIW, you can read the article online here: >> https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine >> >> (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) it's on page 86. >> >> I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots >> of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or >> download. I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on >> boring jobs. google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you >> can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. >> Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like >> they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the >> matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you >> open them. Not ideal but maybe useful. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3037 - Release Date: 07/29/10 13:34:00 From aawolfe at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 00:02:43 2010 From: aawolfe at gmail.com (Aaron Wolfe) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:02:43 -0400 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing In-Reply-To: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> References: <4C524111.6090902@cox.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Andrew wrote: > All, > > I have just posted to my website a writeup about an article I found in the > April 1984 issue of Color Computer magazine on Aaron Wolfe's website, > CoCoCoding. Aaron had linked to his website about another issue in regards > to Mr. Bjork's sitting on a quad at age 25 (interesting article and > pictures, that!). I started reading thru some of the other issues - and > found the Armabot! > > It was an article on interfacing the Armatron to the Color Computer, > something I knew had been done before (there were advertisements for such > conversions in the Rainbow, for instance, by Analog Micro Systems), but I > had not seen any discussion on how to actually do it (there was an article > series about something called the ROS which detailed a general bus interface > geared toward robotics - but this had nothing to do with the Armatron, > AFAIK). > > So - I "ripped" a copy of the article and made a PDF of it, and put it on my > website, here: > > ? ? ? ?http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/106 > > I credit Aaron Wolfe's website and his collection, as well as the magazine > issue; I hope this is OK - I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, I just > collect and archive articles on my website dealing with interfacing the > Armatron to computers - there were quite a few projects of this nature > during that time period. > Credit should not go to me :) The PDFs on cococoding.com are all from other places. I just OCRed them and put them into Google Docs. Most come from the maltedmedia archive, with the exception of 68 Micro Journal which comes from the Flex User Group archive. The real work was done by those who took the time to scan these in. I've tried to credit them when I can find out who that was, but for many that information seems to be have lost along the way. Since you can find these files on many sites, I think it's OK to post them or parts of them on your own. It's certainly fine by me. > I wanted to announce it here, in case anyone was interested! > > -- Andrew L. Ayers > ? Glendale, Arizona > ? http://www.phoenixgarage.org/ > > >> Message: 8 >> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:39:51 -0400 >> From: Aaron Wolfe >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> Message-ID: >> ? ? ? ? >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Allen Huffman wrote: >>> >>> On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Aaron Wolfe wrote: >>>> >>>> The picture on the first page is awesome.. ?Steve at age 25, sitting >>>> on a four wheeler (apparently indoors), wearing a sports coat and full >>>> on 80s tie. ?Man that takes me back. ?Makes you appreciate how much >>>> has changed in ~30 years. ?Those were good times. >>> >>> I remember that! I must have that issue somewhere. 25? Really? Wow. I'm >>> dumbfounded thinking at how young alot of these folks were that were >>> cranking out so much software. >>> >>> If I recall the story, they had that four wheeler in a booth at whatever >>> show that was at, and wired up the CoCo joystick interface to controls on >>> the actual four wheeler so folks could ride and play ... Dessert Rider? >>> >> >> Another interesting bit of trivia. ?I'm guessing it wasn't "dessert" >> rider, but who knows? the 80s were strange times :) >> >> FWIW, you can read the article online here: >> >> https://sites.google.com/a/aaronwolfe.com/cococoding/home/magazines/color-computer-magazine >> >> (if your email client doesn't mangle the massive url) ?it's on page 86. >> >> I only have a couple of the CCM magazines converted so far, but lots >> of other mags fully OCR'ed and shrunk in size are available to read or >> download. ?I do the conversions in the background when I'm working on >> boring jobs. ?google indexes the contents once they are OCRed, so you >> can do full text search over tons of magazines/issues, sort of cool. >> Some day Google is supposed to be adding context to the results like >> they do with web searches, but right now all you get is links to the >> matching issues with the search terms highlighted in the text if you >> open them. ?Not ideal but maybe useful. > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > From tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au Fri Jul 30 08:11:59 2010 From: tigers2roar at yahoo.com.au (brian palmer) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Coco] Backup Magic (Was: Good Memories with Mr. Bjork) Message-ID: <529974.40793.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On Jul. 29, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Darren A wrote: > Carl England has a newer product called BACKUP MAGIC which is much > easier to use than the DEFEATER: > > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Backup_Magic > > The problem is figuring out how to purchase a copy of BACKUP MAGIC. I bought a copy of Backup Magic three years ago directly from Carl.??? He is a subscriber to this list.? (Hint: Log in to the subscriber list? and search for someone with the name "Spock" in his e-mail address-- that's him.) The CoCo subscriber list log in can be found here: I had to send him a money order and get a copy of the floppy by mail,? so the distribution is still decidedly low tech. Backup Magic successfully made bootable copies of only a few of my? protected game disks. It failed on: Kyum-Gai: To Be Ninja (Sundog Systems), It will indeed copy this. And I would say every other Sundog System software that used the Track0 copy protection routine. Buzzard Bait (Tom Mix), This one can be done, But U need to send Carl the copy protected disk so he can tweak the routines to work, Same goes for the others listed here. Sailor Man (Tim Mix) Time Bandit (Michtron) It did succeed on: And I will list the software here it also worked on. Sinistaar (Sundog Systems) Warrior King (Sundog Systems) Caladuril 1 and 2, 7th Link, The Champion, Z-89, Marty's Nightmare, pretty much all off Steve Bjork's games, Those Darn Marbles, Some off the Diecom Games, But not all as this copy protection is a hit or miss using Backup Magic. There is many more I can list But I forget the names now. Some off the games listed are now available in Cracked versions. I have successfully used Back up magic on all off the Cer-Comp software. And other 3rd party software to date. As I said Using Tandy Dos is the best chance off it working. 3rd Party Dos's used their own routines which I think conflict with how Backup Magic works by using the disk basic routines used in the Tandy Dos. On Aug. 31, 2007, at 6:11 PM, carl j england wrote: > Backup Magic requires a CoCo3 and two disk drives.? Can be used to > backup MOST Copy-Protected disks.? Can also be used to transfer the > Copy-Protected disk to your PC (PC must have a floppy drive--has > only been tested using David Kiel's emulator).? The "real" copy is a > duplicate of the original and is also Copy-Protected.? The emulator > copy will have a "virtual" copy-protection.? It cannot be copied using > the emulator, but can be copied under DOS or Windows. > > The price for Backup Magic is $25 (includes shipping) -- JP G'Day Fellow Coconuts. I have to disagree with what software Backup Magic will copy. I will put next to your list the ones that it will copy, I should know as I was the 1st person to ever Beta Test it out and get a full working copy from Carl England. What I did find is that Using a Tandy based DOS would give you the best results for copying, some 3rd party Dos's would not copy certain software etc. Read the Add on I have posted in the earlier section. And I agree If you want to backup your software it is a must to purchase Backup Magic. ?Well when you are talking about copying a protected disk in around 40secs flat it is worth it. No more waiting 5mins or so. laters Briza From coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com Fri Jul 30 08:31:14 2010 From: coco+list at jeanpaulsamson.com (J.P. Samson) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:31:14 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Backup Magic (Was: Good Memories with Mr. Bjork) In-Reply-To: <529974.40793.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <529974.40793.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jul. 30, 2010, at 6:11 AM, brian palmer wrote: > It failed on: > Kyum-Gai: To Be Ninja (Sundog Systems), It will indeed copy this. > And I would say every other Sundog System software that used the > Track0 copy protection routine. Doesn't work on my copy of Kyum-Gai. I tried several times, and Backup Magic just locks up the computer during the copy operation, with colorful garbage characters all over the screen. This was several years ago, and I think I tried some different floppy drives and drive controllers, too, to no avail. Perhaps Kyum-Gai changed copy protection schemes at some point during its life cycle? One day (i.e. some years from now), I hope to get a PC cobbled together with a Catweasel so I can hopefully make backup copies of those other protected disks. (I'm on a Mac laptop at present.) -- JP From keeper63 at cox.net Fri Jul 30 11:24:25 2010 From: keeper63 at cox.net (Andrew) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:24:25 -0700 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C52EEA9.3010000@cox.net> John - responses in-line... > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:27:15 -0500 > From: "Little John \(GIMEchip.com\)" > Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > Message-ID: <84B0DCE5B71C4B1B80F627141AC0AC00 at hackersafa71ff> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > That particular article in Color Computer Magazine was one of several > that > detailed the computer control of an Armatron. When my dad gave me all That's what I've been finding; I have several of the articles - all the ones I have found so far are up on my site. The more I look, the more I find, it seems. At one point, I collected everything I had and released a "super-archive"; then promptly found another addition after I had published that one! Since then, I have found a few more...ha. > of his > CoCo Stuff, that article along with the one in Hot CoCo and I haven't see anything about a Hot CoCo one - I would be interested in that! > Radio-Electronics prompted me to seek out some Armatrons (I've got 6 > of > them, but haven't converted any as yet). The ROS article that you I have a few Armatrons myself; my original Tomy Armatron from when I was a kid (in OK shape - it kinda got damaged in storage - melted plastic in one spot, but should function OK), a couple of Radio Shack ones (one specifically bought for a conversion - its in really rough shape), and my most recent one, a Discovery Channel "Spark" arm (its one of the latest re-releases! Ugly as sin, though): http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/93 I also know about another re-release, called the Smithsonian Robo-Arm/Bio-Arm: http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/107 > mention, > if I remember correctly, was in Hot CoCo and was part of James J. > Barbarello's "Hardware Hacker" series. It was for controlling an > Armatron as > well. James did a whole series, the first of which was a PIA Pak for Hmm - maybe so; but I distinctly remember a series of articles (of which I only have the two issues for the last two articles - there were three) in the Rainbow; I'll see if I can find the issues later tonight... > interfacing the rest of the series to the CoCo and part of the series > detailed an Armatron Connection to his PIA Port Cartridge. If I can > find the > articles, I'll scan them for you if you like. The article in Yes - I would like that a lot; it would go great in my archive (CoCo and Armatron - I love them both!). > Radio-Electronics detailed how to connect one to a VIC-20 and if I'm > not > mistaken, the VIC-20 article mounted the Armatron to a piece of > plywood with > the motors external (connected by plastic "drive" shafts). I'll see if > I can > find that one too. -John I have that issue and article, and have it scanned in and on my website; I think it is in the "super-archive" I posted: http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/92 Which now has to be re-done... :) Thanks for the feedback on this! -- Andrew L. Ayers Glendale, Arizona From sales at gimechip.com Fri Jul 30 11:33:30 2010 From: sales at gimechip.com (Little John (GIMEchip.com)) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:33:30 -0500 Subject: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing References: <4C52EEA9.3010000@cox.net> Message-ID: <75F2ECF90B454C7E99B120CE6510C6A4@hackersafa71ff> Yes, I remember the article now from Rainbow that you mention. It was by Dennis (can't remember his last name) - he did a lot of articles on hardware for Rainbow and used Deft PASCAL I think for the software side of his hardware articles - oh, just remembered his last name.. Weide. Anyway... you are correct - the ROS was in the Rainbow... I don't remember what J.J. Barbarello Called his, but I'll dig out and scan the articles. I have that whole set of his articles, if I can find them all, I'll scan them all - the most important I think would be part 1 (the PIA Pak) and the later two that dealt with the Armatron - one was the hardware conversion to connect to the PIA Pak and the other was a pretty cool piece of software to control the Arm... I'll get to looking - thanks for posting all the links - I love working with all of this hardware. I've also got to send out a few items I promised folks and hadn't got around to mailing (I currently can't get out because my feet are swollen and I can't walk, but it gets better :-) so I have to depend on Dad making time to get to the Post Office for me.) Thanks for everything guys --- I'm off to check out these awesome links you've posted. -John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew" To: Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > John - responses in-line... > > > Message: 14 > > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:27:15 -0500 > > From: "Little John \(GIMEchip.com\)" > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Armatron Interfacing > > To: "CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts" > > Message-ID: <84B0DCE5B71C4B1B80F627141AC0AC00 at hackersafa71ff> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > That particular article in Color Computer Magazine was one of several > > that > > detailed the computer control of an Armatron. When my dad gave me all > > That's what I've been finding; I have several of the articles - all the > ones I have found so far are up on my site. The more I look, the more I > find, it seems. At one point, I collected everything I had and released > a "super-archive"; then promptly found another addition after I had > published that one! Since then, I have found a few more...ha. > > > of his > > CoCo Stuff, that article along with the one in Hot CoCo and > > I haven't see anything about a Hot CoCo one - I would be interested in > that! > > > Radio-Electronics prompted me to seek out some Armatrons (I've got 6 > > of > > them, but haven't converted any as yet). The ROS article that you > > I have a few Armatrons myself; my original Tomy Armatron from when I was > a kid (in OK shape - it kinda got damaged in storage - melted plastic in > one spot, but should function OK), a couple of Radio Shack ones (one > specifically bought for a conversion - its in really rough shape), and > my most recent one, a Discovery Channel "Spark" arm (its one of the > latest re-releases! Ugly as sin, though): > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/93 > > I also know about another re-release, called the Smithsonian > Robo-Arm/Bio-Arm: > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/107 > > > mention, > > if I remember correctly, was in Hot CoCo and was part of James J. > > Barbarello's "Hardware Hacker" series. It was for controlling an > > Armatron as > > well. James did a whole series, the first of which was a PIA Pak for > > Hmm - maybe so; but I distinctly remember a series of articles (of which > I only have the two issues for the last two articles - there were three) > in the Rainbow; I'll see if I can find the issues later tonight... > > > interfacing the rest of the series to the CoCo and part of the series > > detailed an Armatron Connection to his PIA Port Cartridge. If I can > > find the > > articles, I'll scan them for you if you like. The article in > > Yes - I would like that a lot; it would go great in my archive (CoCo and > Armatron - I love them both!). > > > Radio-Electronics detailed how to connect one to a VIC-20 and if I'm > > not > > mistaken, the VIC-20 article mounted the Armatron to a piece of > > plywood with > > the motors external (connected by plastic "drive" shafts). I'll see if > > I can > > find that one too. -John > > I have that issue and article, and have it scanned in and on my website; > I think it is in the "super-archive" I posted: > > http://www.phoenixgarage.org/show_article/92 > > Which now has to be re-done... > > :) > > Thanks for the feedback on this! > > -- Andrew L. Ayers > Glendale, Arizona > > > -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3038 - Release Date: 07/30/10 01:34:00 From goosey at virgo.sdc.org Fri Jul 30 16:39:17 2010 From: goosey at virgo.sdc.org (Willard Goosey) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:39:17 -0600 Subject: [Coco] Good memories with Mr. Bjork In-Reply-To: <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> References: <20100729201254.GB25517@virgo.sdc.org> <20100729233051.GA1202@virgo.sdc.org> <6F078A82-7F6E-479F-B0B1-EB9298243C4D@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20100730203917.GA19204@virgo.sdc.org> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 06:50:01PM -0500, Allen Huffman wrote: Hi Allen! > U.P.S., my friend. Even the cheap APC or Belkin ones you can find > for around $40-$50 should power a CoCo and drives Yeah, that's a good plan. Willard -- Willard Goosey goosey at sdc.org Socorro, New Mexico, USA I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night. -- R.E. Howard From thompsonxx at yahoo.com Sat Jul 31 14:57:36 2010 From: thompsonxx at yahoo.com (thompsonxx) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:57:36 -0000 Subject: [Coco] [Color Computer] CoCo 1 on eBay--thinning out collection... Message-ID: Gang-- Still doing some classic computer downsizing... CoCo 1--bare system, tested, working, pics Looks like it's going to go cheap--auction ends Sunday August 1 eBay #230503718010 Picture shows it hooked up to my wife's old B&W TV that she used for her CoCo2 back in the day (yes, we still have the CoCo). Thanks for looking, Jeff From tonypodraza at juno.com Sat Jul 31 21:46:56 2010 From: tonypodraza at juno.com (Tony Podraza) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 01:46:56 GMT Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked Message-ID: <20100731.204656.7295.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> glenside picnic at george schneeweiss; in forrest, il; sept 11, 2010.. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Warns To: aaebill at billerweb.com, alfredhitchcock at dellmagazines.com, angehrg at si.edu, angehrg at tivoli.si.edu, April , arthur.young at nmslab.com, bambeck at physics.montana.edu, russ , Didier Brival , Tony Cascio , Chuck Chiles , "St. Paul Lutheran Church" , coco at maltedmedia.com, coco at Princeton.EDU, Casey Collins , Al Corbi , Tim Costello , Winifred Creamer , Dan Daker , Haband Deals , Dex , dyanega at pop.ucr.edu, edzotti at aol.com, Eric Subject: [Coco] My email was hacked Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Sorry for any inconveniences or messages even more incomprehensible than normal. -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c54d25a786fe4e7381st04vuc