[Coco] torn on getting a coco...

Tue Dec 16 21:45:10 EST 2008

I agree with Frank, if you enjoy playing with CoCo hardware, you
should also enjoy using the old data formats too.
And the floppies longevity was surprising, I sent a bunch of them to
Derek to add to his ongoing archive, most of them the generic
white-sleeved bulk type, and he was able to read them.

I was also amazed with the earlier message where someone said "no PCs
for us, everything useful is done on a CoCo".  There's no way I could
give up my PC that plays Warhammer Online and Crysis at 1900x1200 on a
24" widescreen monitor.   While I did put the entire system together
from scratch, there wasn't any cutting of caps to upgrade the memory,
soldering of power supplies and crimping ribbon cables like in the old
days.
And Openoffice and The Gimp blows Max-10 and CocoMax 3 away.  A
320x200 bitmap looks icon sized on my current monitor!

Sean

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Frank Swygert <farna at att.net> wrote:
> Mike, you make some good points. In fact, all the points you made about
> floppy drives are true EXCEPT "720K media is standard for the CoCo3". The
> CoCo (Tandy) has never officially supported 720K drives. Only OS-9 will
> support 720K drives. It's just coincidence (and our good luck) that the
> standard Tandy controller will support 720K drives. But you are missing a
> glaringly obvious fact -- anything done with the CoCo as far as hardware is
> concerned can be considered "retro" computing. So the way to go IS to get
> comfortable with dying hardware -- if you have a CoCo you're already there!
> We all know that the CoCo is an ancient machine as far as computers go. What
> you are doing is tantamount to complaining that an original IBM PC won't run
> Vista. General computing left the CoCo behind a long time ago. There is
> hardware available that updates the CoCo somewhat, but there are serious
> limitations to what the thing can do. It can still be a fun machine to play
> with, but most are doing just that -- playing with it. Some of the "play" is
> semi-serious experimenting and/or small jobs, like one lister's mini CNC
> mill run by a CoCo, but nothing commercially viable or "heavy duty". There's
> just not enough processing power to do a whole lot! The main virtue of the
> CoCo is that it's simple to program and learn, and can be easily interfaced
> with the real world -- both can be difficult and/or expensive using more
> powerful computers. You might be better off with a PIC microcontroller
> development system running on a PC. Consider the Rainbow IDE, that might be
> more of what you seem to want -- that and/or an emulator running on a PC
> instead of a real CoCo. You also make one good point in all this. Since a
> lot of CoCo enthusiasts spend a good deal of time on emulators, I don't see
> why software distribution via .dsk files on CD-ROM can't be an option. It
> shouldn't be the main method of distribution as most actual CoCo users still
> use floppies, whether you want to or not. You have to cater to the crowd in
> a niche market! I don't see a big deal with creating a .dsk image of a
> floppy and storing it on a PC, then sending it out on a CD-ROM on request.
> That's up to the vendor though, and you shouldn't be putting down a vendor
> for not wanting to go through the trouble for one or two people. Most of
> Cloud-9's stuff is hardware related, very little is software unless it's to
> support the hardware -- the exception being Drivewire. While you make a good
> point for distributing it as a .dsk file (at least as an option), Mark
> counters that many customers have problems converting from .dsk to real
> floppies, which most of them have and are familiar with. So it looks like a
> stalemate. Please don't continue to ruin a nice hobby for most of the folks
> here. Try making your point without pointing fingers and complaining. That
> or just leave. I'm not trying to be rude, but the tone and number of your
> negative posts are starting to get annoying. I'd love to welcome you to the
> crowd, but it really sounds like you're not going to be satisfied with a
> computer this old. If I'm wrong, stick around and ask questions when you
> have problems. Just realize that a lot of the answers will involve ancient
> technology... -------------- Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:27:31 -0800 From:
> Michael Robinson <deemcr at robinson-west.com> (reply edited for brevity) I
> don't want to support 5 1/4" disks in this day and age and here is why:
> (expense)
>
> At least someone is finally offering one for less than $150.  Even so, this
> is approaching $50 shipped.  The prices I see right now range from $29 to
> about $89, minus the shipping of course.
>
> I don't know about everyone else on here, but $13 for a 1.44 meg drive
> at your local electronics store is way less then $50.  $50 is getting close
> to the price of a COCO 3, which can be had from cloud-9 for $60.
>
> Now then, 360k drives aren't the only choice.  There are also, drum
> roll. 720k drives.  Let's take a look at those.
>
> 720k media is standard for the COCO 3 by the way.
>
> A show of hands, how many people who have bought a new PC or Mac lately have
> noticed that it doesn't have a disk drive at all?  These days if you want a
> disk drive, you generally go with a USB one ( especially if your computer is
> a laptop ).
>
>
> In summary:
>
> 1) Floppy disks are unreliable.
> 2) Floppy disks are getting harder to acquire.
> 3) Floppy drives are getting expensive, especially low density ones.
> 4) CD-R, CD-RW, usb stick, flash memory is getting better and cheaper  per
> meg.
> 5) Being comfortable with a dying technology that is getting expensive,
>  is that the way to go?
>
> People say they are comfortable with floppy disks.  Why?  Aside from
> drivewire there are alternative possibilities.  One possibility is to
> send a usb stick or flash card to cloud-9 when you buy software.
>
> I've had problems with software on disks because my disk drives are bad.  I
> bought a drivewire rom pack, I don't want to turn around and
> buy used disk drives as well.  I would appreciate dsk images of the
> software from cloud-9 on cdrom that I can load into drivewire, if I
> want to purchase any more software.
>
> ** Any low density disk drive that I buy is going to be used. **
>
>
> --
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
> (free download available!)
>
>
> --
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