[Coco] RE: Coco Digest, Vol 21, Issue 21
Rick Ross
rickross at rossprogramming.com
Wed Jun 8 20:10:21 EDT 2005
This Rainbow deal sounds great - I would be willing to help in some way, I
have quite a few rainbows and would be happy to help alittle financially as
well.
Regards,
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On
Behalf Of coco-request at maltedmedia.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 11:10 AM
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Subject: Coco Digest, Vol 21, Issue 21
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: RE: Rainbow magazines] (John R. Hogerhuis)
2. Re: RE: Rainbow magazines] (Boisy G. Pitre)
3. Re: [Fwd: RE: Rainbow magazines] (Michael Wayne Harwood)
4. [Fwd: [Coco] Hot CoCo on Microfilm...] (Michael Wayne Harwood)
5. Re: [Fwd: RE: Rainbow magazines] (Roger Merchberger)
6. Rainbow on Disc (Michael Wayne Harwood)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:57:48 -0700
From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] RE: Rainbow magazines]
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>,
michael at musicheadproductions.org
Message-ID: <1118206668.9735.139.camel at aragorn>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 22:47 -0600, Michael Wayne Harwood wrote:
> Hmmm... My interst doesn't lie in gaining any sort of renumeration aside
> from the obvious benefits of having Rainbow in an electronic form. I
> would prefer that if you choose to speak to Lonnie you gain a consensus
> before you communicate to him that you speak for the group.
Well here's my thinking on working either a royalty or fixed sum for
each issue copied:
There's a certain amount of revenue on each issue or compilation CD
sold. Some of that is profit, and some of it is cost. As the copyright
owner, he'll expect most of the profit, leaving some for whoever makes
the physical copies and distributes them. So if we all work for free
he'll just take the balance as profit.
But as a businessman he doesn't really expect anyone to work for free.
Theres the cost in time and depreciation of the equipment involved, and
damage to the magazine copies. Now as a group what to do with that
money? Well we could apply it to something we want as a community, or
each participant can take their chunk of it.
But to just do it for free given that he expects this to be a for-profit
venture leaves money on the table for no good reason.
We could always ask what the buy-out price is and see if we can raise
the money up-front to free the information up once and for all. But I
expect that will be too high.
-- John.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:03:58 -0500
From: "Boisy G. Pitre" <boisy at boisypitre.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] RE: Rainbow magazines]
To: jhoger at pobox.com, CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
<coco at maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <6FF946F4-C6C2-479C-A9C1-22F65EA8F98F at boisypitre.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I have some questions/thoughts:
1. What software tools would be used for scanning, and at what DPI?
2. Would some type of OCR be used in coordination with a word
indexing scheme? This would be most valuable for searching through
magazines for a particular keyword
3. If more than one person does the scanning, there needs to be a way
to insure that the scanning quality is consistent throughout.
This is a big project, no doubt about it. More people can cut the
time to completion down proportionally, of course, but if one person
with a document feeder and fast scanner could do this, it would be
best since overall quality would remain the same.
What a potential gold mine of information! Has anyone thought about
doing this with a smaller target CoCo magazine, such as CoCo
Clipboard, Undercolor or some of the other publications of the time?
Even Hot CoCo?
Boisy
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:37:46 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Michael Wayne Harwood" <michael at musicheadproductions.org>
Subject: Re: [Coco] [Fwd: RE: Rainbow magazines]
To: jhoger at pobox.com
Cc: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID:
<35063.192.168.1.1.1118234266.squirrel at webmail.musicheadproductions.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
My undestanding is that Rainbow ran from July '81 through May '93, and my
calculations brings that to a total of 144 magazines. I went ahead and
sent an email to Lonnie asking what he is thinking in regards to price and
how he would like it to work.
I did a little research in regards to what other magazines have done for
their CDROM archives and how much they charge. Dr. Dobbs Journal charges
$99 for a CDROM of over 200 issues, and other magazines I found are along
the lines of $50 for a CDROM of multiple issues.
I currently have 96 Rainbow magazines, with a little over two thirds being
in good shape. I will post my list within the next couple of days to my
website. Others have mentioned they would be willing to share for the
process of scanning, and I would be willing to share my Rainbow collection
for this purpose as well as long as an agreement is reached with Lonnie.
Everyone on this list seems to have a different opinion in regards to how
this should be handled, but I pray that we can come to a satisfactory
arrangement with Lonnie that most, if not all, of us can live with.
Regards,
Michael
> All this means is that we won't get to $0. That is OK. We know it's not
> going to be free. Now we just need to figure out what those copyright
> issues are, what they will cost, and what kind of profit Lonnie expects
> to make out of it.
>
> So, you've got the fish on the line. Just keep going! If you hit a
> sticking point, I suggest bringing it to the group.
>
> Lets get some numbers. How many issues of rainbow are there? Then based
> on that try to come up with the overhead of licensing issues per copy,
>
> Like I said before it would be useful to get an idea of how much a copy
> on ebay usually costs to acquire, and work down from there making sure
> Lonnie gets profit and all costs are covered. But I don't think an
> electronic copy is worth as much as a real copy if that helps.
>
> -- John.
>
> On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 18:25 -0600, Michael Wayne Harwood wrote:
>> Well...here's Lonnie's reply. I am not sure exactly how to proceed, or
>> if
>> I am the appropriate person to pursue this with Lonnie. I am interested
>> in what kind of license fees would be entailed...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michael Harwood
>>
>> ---------------------------- Original Message
>> ----------------------------
>> Subject: RE: Rainbow magazines
>> From: "Lonnie Falk - Mayor" <mayor at prospectky.com>
>> Date: Tue, June 7, 2005 6:13 pm
>> To: "'Dave Poitras'" <dave at cococentral.org>
>> michael at musicheadproductions.org
>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Michael and Dave:
>>
>> I am going to respond to both of you together, if you do not mind.
>>
>> I am willing to discuss the licensing of reproductions of The Rainbow.
>> Such licensing would have to involve a fee payable to me. I'm not trying
>> to hold anyone up, but the issues are complex involving copyrights not
>> only of the magazine itself, but also the copyrights we bought from
>> every
>> person whose material appeared in the magazine.
>>
>> We have to do this because there remain issues and potential income
>> sources out there for the magazine, even this long after we ended
>> publication. This includes some IRS issues. You don't want to know and
>> you
>> sure don't want to get involved with that.
>>
>> So, simply, I will not (because I can not) allow the reproduction of The
>> Rainbow in whole or in part without a license from me. I've been told
>> that
>> if anyone does this, I will have to pursue it legally. I can and I will
>> be
>> willing to discuss licensing if either of you -- or both of you -- wish
>> to
>> do so. Just email me back.
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>>
>> Lonnie Falk
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Wayne Harwood [mailto:michael at musicheadproductions.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 10:33 AM
>> To: mayor at prospectky.com
>> Subject: Rainbow Magazine
>>
>> Lonnie,
>>
>> I assume that I have the right email address for the Editor of the
>> Rainbow
>> magazine for the TRS-80 Color Computer.
>>
>> You may not remember, but a couple of years ago I emailed you regarding
>> doing a project where scanned Rainbow magazines could be offered in a
>> digital format (e.g. PDF on CDROM, etc). You mentioned at the time that
>> you would be willing to consider allowing the sale of the products of
>> such
>> a project and I wanted to ask if you would still be willing to consider
>> this. If so, I would like to start a conversation with you in regards to
>> the possibilities and costs associated with this project.
>>
>> Many of us in the Coco community would like to see this magazine
>> preserved
>> and are willing to take the time and effort to make it happen. What we
>> don't want is to do anything illegal or unethical.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michael Harwood
>> CoCo Enthusiast since 1982
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Poitras [mailto:dave at cococentral.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:33 PM
>> To: mayor at prospectky.com
>> Subject: Rainbow magazines
>>
>> Hello Mayor Falk,
>>
>> This may be off the wall, but here goes.
>> I and many others are keeping the
>> CoCo alive & kicking
>> Is there any chance that you would give us permission to scan in the
>> Rainbow magazines and distribute them to other CoCo Nuts for free. If
>> not
>> I will understand, but it would be a shame to waist this
>> valuable source.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dave Poitras
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "The best place to be is here,
>> the best time to be is now."
>> -- Bill and Ted
>>
>>
>
>
--
"The best place to be is here,
the best time to be is now."
-- Bill and Ted
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:43:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Michael Wayne Harwood" <michael at musicheadproductions.org>
Subject: [Fwd: [Coco] Hot CoCo on Microfilm...]
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Message-ID:
<35105.192.168.1.1.1118234619.squirrel at webmail.musicheadproductions.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Thanks for that link! DO you have contact information for Michael Nadeau
or the email you spoke of? I would love to scan in all the Hot Coco I
have and make them available to others. The microfiche would be expensive
to say the least - $140 a year plus the costs of having someone else scan
them from fiche to electronic media. Sheesh!
I need to complete my Hot Coco collection - is there any one who has some
that are willing to share with me? I am willing to buy them - I am not
expecting a free ride!! ;)
Speaking of all this make me desire to scan in some of the neater books
such as Barden's assmebler and graphics books for the coco.
Ahhh....don;t bite off more than I can chew, eh??
Regards,
Michael Harwood
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [Coco] Hot CoCo on Microfilm...
From: "Rogelio Perea" <os9dude at hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, June 7, 2005 5:44 pm
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps is just something I dreamed about but I seem to recall that
Michael E. Nadeau, Editor In Chief of Hot CoCo (CW Communications, ISSN
0740-3186, then owned by Wayne Green) mentioned something about having no
problems with Hot CoCo articles and/or programs available on the web...
got to do some research in the msg databases to see if something comes
up.
Anyway, Hot CoCo is available on Microfilm, so at least there's a third
party repository keeping this particular venue of CoCo info preseved, try
the following link:
http://www.il.proquest.com/sim/title/detail?title_key=136815
Hot CoCo had small ads here and there about it being available in
microfilm from University Microfilms International. The URL above came
after a google search and once at the UMI site a partial ISSN search
revealed the archive. Kind of expensive though to get all 3 years
worth...
If you follow:
http://tinyurl.com/8qcvn
you'll get a sizeable list of computer related publications archived as
microfil/microfiche... 80 Micro, Family Computing, Run, etc. No Flasoft's
"The Rainbow" though.
Just my $0.02 :-)
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:49:16 -0400
From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch at 30below.com>
Subject: Re: [Coco] [Fwd: RE: Rainbow magazines]
To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050608102824.03b047a0 at mail.30below.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Rumor has it that Michael Wayne Harwood may have mentioned these words:
>My undestanding is that Rainbow ran from July '81 through May '93, and my
>calculations brings that to a total of 144 magazines. I went ahead and
>sent an email to Lonnie asking what he is thinking in regards to price and
>how he would like it to work.
>
>I did a little research in regards to what other magazines have done for
>their CDROM archives and how much they charge. Dr. Dobbs Journal charges
>$99 for a CDROM of over 200 issues, and other magazines I found are along
>the lines of $50 for a CDROM of multiple issues.
If you're looking for another datapoint of a similar vintage Tandy machine
magazine, you can purchase Portable 100 magazine dedicated to the Tandy
Model 100/102/200 series laptops (over 100 issues) it's available through
www.club100.org for $30, 2 CDs worth.
Go here: https://bigbird.whtech.com/club100.org/ordform.html
and scroll down about 25% of the way.
I'm not saying we should lowball Lonnie or anything... just offering
another datapoint to the grist... ;-)
[[ Offtopically, My Tandy 200 was my 3rd computer (First my CoCo2, then my
CoCo3) and I *still* use it weekly or more often... handy little sucker, it
is! ;-) ]]
>Everyone on this list seems to have a different opinion in regards to how
>this should be handled, but I pray that we can come to a satisfactory
>arrangement with Lonnie that most, if not all, of us can live with.
<AOL>
Me Too!
</AOL>
HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate."
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch at 30below.com |
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:12:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Michael Wayne Harwood" <michael at musicheadproductions.org>
Subject: [Coco] Rainbow on Disc
To: coco at maltedmedia.com
Message-ID:
<64659.65.167.67.15.1118243549.squirrel at webmail.musicheadproductions.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Here is the latest communication thread regarding what I would like to
unofficially dub "Rainbow on Disc". I think that Lonnie's terms are
extremely fair. At $.25 per issue the entire Rainbow archive of 144
issues could be had for $36 plus shipping and media costs. Are there any
thoughts regarding the costs or what Lonnie has proposed?
I think we should start a discussion regarding the actual work and the
practical details involved. Boisy has some good questions regarding
standards and consistency.
Regards,
Michael Harwood
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: RE: Rainbow magazines
From: "Michael Wayne Harwood" <michael at musicheadproductions.org> Date:
Wed, June 8, 2005 9:00 am
To: mayor at prospectky.com
Cc: dave at cococentral.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lonnie,
Thank you very much for your quick responses and willingness to work with
us to make this happen! What you have outlined sounds fair to me, and I
will forward this to the Coco mailing list to make them aware of your
proposal. If you don't mind I would like to draft an initial letter and
send it to you via email so that we can make sure that everything is in
order before I send it via snail mail.
I am thinking of calling this project "Rainbow on Disc" and would like
your feedback regarding this choice of names as well as your thoughts
regarding the use of the Rainbow graphics, logos, etc for any printing,
websites, or other similar usage.
Regards,
Michael Harwood
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: RE: [Fwd: RE: Rainbow magazines]
From: "Lonnie Falk - Mayor" <mayor at prospectky.com>
Date: Wed, June 8, 2005 8:01 am
To: michael at musicheadproductions.org
Cc: dave at cococentral.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael:
I am not really interested in making money, but in protecting copyright. I
would think 25 cents per issue of the magazine would be sufficient. I just
got off the phone with my legal eagle, who says the amount has to be more
than a "token" and he feels 25 cents or more per issue would be sufficient
to accomplish that.
We would also want:
1. One copy of each CD (or whatever) you produce. I assume you are not
planning on burning custom copies. That would certainly drive you crazy.
If you are planning on doing that, we'll have to re-think archival copies
on this end.
2. That if being offered as issues, the issue must be done completely, ads
and all. That is, an image of the issue.
3. That whatever "printing" appears on the disk label, packaging and
advertising, the phrase "Content copyright (c) by Rainbow Magazine and
Falsoft Inc., 1980-2005, all rights reserved. Offered under license to
(whatever or whoever). May not be reproduced in whole or in part."
4. An "accounting" of copies sold and appropriate funds to cover the
license on a quarterly basis, say January, April, July and October, in the
form of a check so there would be a paper trail for me.
You could send me a letter to 5803 Timber Ridge Dr., Prospect, KY 40059
outlining these conditions and signed. I would respond with a letter
approving. I'd suggest you draft up the letter and email it to be sure we
don't get into sending letters back and forth if there is any discussion
about language.
As to quality, I think that would be up to you. My experience is if you
put out a crummy product, then you are not going to sell any. Or, at
least, not many.
My only suggestion is that, as you may or may not be aware, HP has come
out with a new DVD-CD burning technology called LightScribe that "burns"
an image on the "label side" of a disk right in the drive. You just flip
the DVD or CD over. It is a little slow, is all in greyscale, but they say
they will have a speedup out in the next month or two. I've gotten rid of
all my "Stompers" and the like in favor of it. The greyscale looks rather
elegant, I think.
Lastly, I think it would be counterproductive to have both you and Dave
doing the same thing. You were first to suggest this, so you get first
chance to say yea or nay. Let me know what you think.
Best
Lonnie
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Wayne Harwood [mailto:michael at musicheadproductions.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 8:21 AM
To: mayor at prospectky.com
Cc: dave at cococentral.org
Subject: [Fwd: RE: Rainbow magazines]
Lonnie,
Thank you for your quick reply. I would like to discuss the costs of
licensing electronic reproductions with you. What exactly do you have in
mind in regards to both the cost and other practical issues such as
quality control??
Regards,
Michael Harwood
------------------------------
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