[Coco] Re: [Color Computer] Is this a discussion about a new Coco?

[Vern Burke]

So where's your great version? You're so critical about how Mark
is doing it, but I don't see any rubber meeting the road.

So, big fat hairy deal you made something for a completely different
computer and sold more of them. Put up or shut up here and now.

Vern

PS Yes, I'm one of the pre-orders for the SuperBoard.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Diffendaffer" <jdiffendaffer at yahoo.com>
To: <ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: [Coco] Re: [Color Computer] Is this a discussion about a new Coco?


>
>
>
> --- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, Mark Marlette <mark at c...> wrote:
> > At 10:36 AM 4/18/2005, you wrote:
> > that includes all of the options, including the Ethernet. The
> Ethernet chip
> > alone costs well over $65 and that doesn't include the support
> chips. Then
>
>
> Oh please... $65?  What chip are you using?  There are pleanty of
> controller chips for under $15 in single quantity... not my fault if
> you chose an expensive one.  Geeze... a Coldfire CPU with built in
> ethernet, USB and PCI is less than $40 in small quantity!  I could
> build a board based on a coldfire and a couple PCI chips, a PLD and
> emulate the $%#& thing cheaper and faster.
>
> If you integrate everything onto a larger PLD you can do everything
> that was posted with that list for under $100 cost.  Cost is what I
> was talking about.  The reduced cost of the board + chips will make up
> for the large PLD.  Most of the parts on that list for the Superboard
> are on the Open Cores site!
>
> Cloud-9 is charging over $100 for an IDE board! IDE!!!!  And we're not
> talking about UDMA here either.  All that requires is to adjust some
> buss logic and decode the address!  It requires around 4 TTL chips (if
> you don't overdesign the thing) for under $10 at Radio Shack!
>
> I did a price check on getting an IDE/USB board printed.  It was under
> $17 each in quantity 20 and that was the first quote with solder mask.
>  If I were to order 100, drop solder mask and shop around it's
> probably under $10.  The chips + connectors are under $20 in quantity 1.
>
> > add in the cost of the PCB board, CPLDs which are in the $8-11 range
> each
> > which there are 4-6 of them on the board.  As you can see without
> evening
> > spending a whole a lot of time on it that the price goes up very
> fast. You
> > must have been a sleep that day in Business Economics. Prove me
> wrong and
> > send me the product. You can't.
>
> You must have been asleep in Business Economics.  There isn't enough
> of a CoCo market to waste building a business on.  It's not like they
> are making new CoCo's.  Your trying to turn a hobby into a business...
> which is ok but don't claim it's more than it is.
>
> > It is easier for you to sit back and do
> > nothing but critique other peoples work and say it is too expensive.
> >
> > I can tell by your previous posts that you have done VERY little with
> > developing products.
>
> I used to own a company that built hardware for the Amiga, some of
> which I designed, I know what I'm talking about.  We were selling more
> hardware in a week that Cloud-9 has sold since it was started.
> A.I.R. sold over $750,000 worth of product (1 product) in the first 6
> months and it took us over half of that time just to build up
> manufacturing ability and a dealer network.  At the time I sold out we
> were doing about $90,000 per month and had 4(?) products.
>
> BTW, we were paying under $2/board on a circuit board about half the
> size this IDE/USB board would be.
>
> > You want to use discrete components rather than
> > current technology. As that is you choice, I have DONE both and this
> is a
>
> You want to use PLDs so people can't copy your design.  I want to
> design something someone can download the design, print their own
> circuit board and use off the shelf parts on.  Totally different goal.
>  If I wanted to make my life easier I'd use the PLD and forget having
> to worry about how to fit all the parts in such a small space.
>
> For something like the Superboard I'd use a larger PLD instead of
> multiple small PLDs since it will be smaller for about the same price.
>
> > I have fifty-seven down payments for the SuperBoard with many follow on
> > orders.
>
> WOW!  57!!!!  That's smaller than what A.I.R.'s first order was (200)
> and the next week it was twice that.  Within 2 months we had to hire
> people to assemble our stuff.
>
> > I'm not taking anymore down payments as the initial price to
> > produce has been met. Maybe you have more business sense than I do
> or just
> > have more money to throw around? Can you put out over $5700 to
> produce this
> > ONE board? Remember we produce more than this one board. I'll do the
> math
> > for you.... 57 * $100(your price) = $5700. I used $100, even though
> it is
> > more expensive than that. You would go broke because you will loose
> money
> > on every board sold. This is a hobby business for me, love and
> passion of
>
> I was talking cost.  Distributor markup should be at least 50%, dealer
> markup should be at least 75% and direct sales should be 100%.
>
> > the machine. I can't afford to make those types of errors and be around
> > here very long.
>
> And is this business you've been running as a hobby paying your bills?
>  Do you have another job?
>
> > We have been around and will continue to be around because
> > of the thought and planning that goes in to each and every product
> we produce.
>
> Marketing BS.  If you had to live off of Cloud-9 you'd starve and if
> you died would the company be around to take care of your customers
> tomorrow?
>
> > With the given facts, you are WAY off base on your price and statement.
>
> According to you... a guy that will spend $65 on an ethernet
> controller and who sells an IDE board for $100.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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