[Coco] Re: [Color Computer] Is this a discussion about a new Coco?

[James Diffendaffer]

--- In ColorComputer at yahoogroups.com, Mark Marlette <mark at c...> wrote:
> At 10:36 AM 4/18/2005, you wrote:
> that includes all of the options, including the Ethernet. The
Ethernet chip 
> alone costs well over $65 and that doesn't include the support
chips. Then 


Oh please... $65?  What chip are you using?  There are pleanty of
controller chips for under $15 in single quantity... not my fault if
you chose an expensive one.  Geeze... a Coldfire CPU with built in
ethernet, USB and PCI is less than $40 in small quantity!  I could
build a board based on a coldfire and a couple PCI chips, a PLD and
emulate the $%#& thing cheaper and faster.

If you integrate everything onto a larger PLD you can do everything
that was posted with that list for under $100 cost.  Cost is what I
was talking about.  The reduced cost of the board + chips will make up
for the large PLD.  Most of the parts on that list for the Superboard
are on the Open Cores site!

Cloud-9 is charging over $100 for an IDE board! IDE!!!!  And we're not
talking about UDMA here either.  All that requires is to adjust some
buss logic and decode the address!  It requires around 4 TTL chips (if
you don't overdesign the thing) for under $10 at Radio Shack!

I did a price check on getting an IDE/USB board printed.  It was under
$17 each in quantity 20 and that was the first quote with solder mask.
 If I were to order 100, drop solder mask and shop around it's
probably under $10.  The chips + connectors are under $20 in quantity 1.

> add in the cost of the PCB board, CPLDs which are in the $8-11 range
each 
> which there are 4-6 of them on the board.  As you can see without
evening 
> spending a whole a lot of time on it that the price goes up very
fast. You 
> must have been a sleep that day in Business Economics. Prove me
wrong and 
> send me the product. You can't.

You must have been asleep in Business Economics.  There isn't enough
of a CoCo market to waste building a business on.  It's not like they
are making new CoCo's.  Your trying to turn a hobby into a business...
which is ok but don't claim it's more than it is.

> It is easier for you to sit back and do 
> nothing but critique other peoples work and say it is too expensive.
> 
> I can tell by your previous posts that you have done VERY little with 
> developing products.

I used to own a company that built hardware for the Amiga, some of
which I designed, I know what I'm talking about.  We were selling more
hardware in a week that Cloud-9 has sold since it was started.
A.I.R. sold over $750,000 worth of product (1 product) in the first 6
months and it took us over half of that time just to build up
manufacturing ability and a dealer network.  At the time I sold out we
were doing about $90,000 per month and had 4(?) products.

BTW, we were paying under $2/board on a circuit board about half the
size this IDE/USB board would be.

> You want to use discrete components rather than 
> current technology. As that is you choice, I have DONE both and this
is a 

You want to use PLDs so people can't copy your design.  I want to
design something someone can download the design, print their own
circuit board and use off the shelf parts on.  Totally different goal.
 If I wanted to make my life easier I'd use the PLD and forget having
to worry about how to fit all the parts in such a small space.  

For something like the Superboard I'd use a larger PLD instead of
multiple small PLDs since it will be smaller for about the same price.  

> I have fifty-seven down payments for the SuperBoard with many follow on 
> orders.

WOW!  57!!!!  That's smaller than what A.I.R.'s first order was (200)
and the next week it was twice that.  Within 2 months we had to hire
people to assemble our stuff.  

> I'm not taking anymore down payments as the initial price to 
> produce has been met. Maybe you have more business sense than I do
or just 
> have more money to throw around? Can you put out over $5700 to
produce this 
> ONE board? Remember we produce more than this one board. I'll do the
math 
> for you.... 57 * $100(your price) = $5700. I used $100, even though
it is 
> more expensive than that. You would go broke because you will loose
money 
> on every board sold. This is a hobby business for me, love and
passion of 

I was talking cost.  Distributor markup should be at least 50%, dealer
markup should be at least 75% and direct sales should be 100%.

> the machine. I can't afford to make those types of errors and be around 
> here very long.

And is this business you've been running as a hobby paying your bills?
 Do you have another job?   

> We have been around and will continue to be around because 
> of the thought and planning that goes in to each and every product
we produce.

Marketing BS.  If you had to live off of Cloud-9 you'd starve and if
you died would the company be around to take care of your customers
tomorrow?
 
> With the given facts, you are WAY off base on your price and statement.

According to you... a guy that will spend $65 on an ethernet
controller and who sells an IDE board for $100.






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