[Coco] My Windows Readme

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Top posting, of course when a reply in line is not the best way to go.

If I have to scroll down I say stop this nonsense or just move onto the next post.

Too many times looking down I cannot find what is changed. 
If I cannot remember what is being discussed likely I am not interested.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gene Heskett" <gheskett at wdtv.com>
To: <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2015 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Coco] My Windows Readme


> On Saturday 04 April 2015 20:05:40 Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I put my coding pad down decades ago.
> 
> Your choice. At 80 yo, I still have a byte or 3 of coding in me.
>>
>> My recent attempts have not gone anywhere near completion.
>>
>> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/731457-hdhomer
>>un-dual-atsc-qam-ethernet-box-66.html#post24078505
> 
> Off topic to this? I do not see the connection at all clearly.

Just that I cannot finish what I start these days. Even an AWK script.
 
>> Urbane got a huge number of downloads but no indication that it was
>> being used.
> 
> I wasn't even aware it was out there, what does it (Urbane) do?  URL?

http://www.coco3.com/urbane/

There was a lot of discussion on:

http://www.tandycoco.com/forum/index.php?sid=d3950d0e720bf8ec2375de334ed51282

But "This board has no forums." Says it all.
 
>> I attempted to look at installing my window descriptors into NitrOS-9.
> 
> For what I want to do, the existing ones have worked.


I want to do much more and did lots of it.

On one screen usually three windows. One for editing the source, one for looking at the output and one to run the program.

Look backward in this thread for the attachment to the very first post.
Or  perhaps the second if you can read monospaced text.
 
>> Boy was I hit with a huge landslide that stopped that cold.
>>
>> Shellplus, a lost cause, throw it away and start over.

It's not just ShellPlus but every part of NitrOS-9 that might handle what you typed in. I would not call it a mess but hard to understand where things have gone wrong. The author of ShellPlus 2.2 (?) said here that he might have been responsible. Not proven.

Clearly ShellPlus is damaged goods, but then I was such a heavy user. 

That I was able to help the CP/M author is just one sign that I was.

> Possibly, but its been part of my arsenal for quite some time.
>>
>> After ROTROD I may go back to improving the ShellPlus documentation
>> for OS-9. Maybe somebody will see if NitrOS-9 ShellPlus matches what I
>> document.
> 
> I don't see why not, if we have command examples to test for function.

Just start at the beginning of the ShellPlus documentation and try it all out.

I now have three more shell subs making the grand total of 5. On a properly set up system like I had one is not needed.

>> How can I say that ShellPlus is broken on NitrOS-9 when there is no
>> document saying what should work.
> 
> We're on the same page here.  Docs are horrible.  The /sys/helpmsg file 
> needs to grow quite a few megabytes, and away from its absolutely 
> simplistic format as it exists today.  It will not get it unless there 
> is a solid set of formatting rules, it is broken into individual pieces 
> per program or utility, and ideally, help itself is re-written not to 
> scan a huge file to find the reference, but to open the /sys/help/name 
> file directly.

On RTSI there are two or three help systems. I installed one, it was a collection of ~ 150 small files. Maybe a start.

The other one I forget. But I did see one help system once that might be worth something.

> 
> An individual file can be fixed on the coco even if the full explanation 
> is north of 20k.  A multi-megabyte helpfile has to be edited external to 
> the coco world.  So unless we can make that huge file from the 
> individual files as we build the repo on one of our linux boxes, or 
> convert help to look for the name passed, in a scan of 
> the /sys/helpfiles directory, an operation that might even be faster in 
> some cases than scanning thru one big file.
> 
> If my view seems to have the flavor of a linux man page, it does because 
> the man page on linux, while it does need more explanations, and more 
> examples in particular, is still 1000x better than what we do have on 
> the coco/Nitros9 planet right now.
> 
>> I put my hat in the ring to run as dictator. I got one vote.
>>
>> That was fine except no one else got any votes.
> 
> It's a thankless job.  And now you know it. :)
> 
>> So the position remains open as it has been since Tandy vacated the
>> position.
>>
>> I see signs almost every day that we are paying a steep price without
>> one.
> 
> We have one, he sleeps in the white house. :(
> 
>> I know that the Linux people think that their system is a great one
>> and thus it should be used for the CoCo.
>>
>> I think that stinks to high hell.
> 
> Thats personal.  Explain why technically, so we're talking oranges to 
> oranges here.  I personally, because the architectures are so similar, 
> usually find myself right at home once I get over the keyboard 
> differences.

It's the model of people do what they want and there is no one looking at the entire system and well, suggesting that things need to be done and follows up to make sure they were done right. And the whole system works well.

When I stopped most of what I did was without the system neededing to be fought. I had added fixes from Delphi, wrote programs as needed and lots of shell scripts.

Example. Turn the CoCo on and boot OS-9. Replace the system disk with a disk with the source for the program to be worked on.

Run a script to load the "C" compiler, and start the ram disk.
Run  a script to load the ram disk with the program files.
Edit the program.
Run a script to do the compile. 
Test the changes.
Repeat as necessary.
Run a script to copy new and changed files from the ram disk to the floppy. I wish Bill would create a new program with the two columns that has the features of the program I wrote. I had that Idea two decades ago.
Turn the computer off.

Different program being worked on. Run the same scripts. Well, the same name but configured for each program. 
 
>> Someone please take over the dictator position and lead us out the
>> huge mess we have.
>>
>> SHF
>>
> Thanks Steven. I had expected a much more defensive reply.  Thank you 
> again.
> 
> Now all we have to do is break you from top posting. Please intersperse 
> your replies so it reads like a normal conversation, as I have done 
> above. Does "X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197", disable 
> the arrow keys to move the curser to where you should type a reply?  Or 
> does it force you to type your reply in a box that it then assembles as 
> Redmond sees fit?  In which case I'd recommend you investigate 
> thunderbird for windows.  I am told the current version Just Works(TM), 
> but I haven't used it in a decade so my knowledge is obviously dated.

I am using Windows Mail from Vista on W7 (Same as Outlook Express with the same bugs but you can search the normal W7 way). MS did for some reason not include a e-mail program like before, they required you to download one. I read about using WM from Vista on W7 and went that way so I did not need to learn another program. One command or two and I need to use system restore to make it work again.

SHF