[Coco] CoCoFEST - Dart Time Sharing System Contest
Wayne Campbell
asa.rand at gmail.com
Mon Aug 25 21:21:23 EDT 2014
Hi Kip,
Good luck on your project! :)
I hope that your memory of the DTSS system returns in full strength. The
knowledge of someone experienced with the DTSS system would be very helpful
for those of us who have never even seen it before.
For what it's worth, I have learned that with the emulator you don't have
to type SYSTEM BASIC as that is the default. At least it appears to be,
since I can start entering BASIC code immediately after entering a user ID
(I use the number 1) and the system responds favorably (meaning it does not
give me error messages or anything).
Wayne
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Kip Koon <computerdoc at sc.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi Wayne!
> I have seen this problem when I start up DTSS, type NEW TEST, enter my
> program, and type RUN also. I kept forgetting to type BASIC first if I
> remember correctly. I played with it the other day for a few minutes to
> remind myself how to do it. It sounds like you guys have figured out more
> than I have at this point, so I would say you guys are on a great start
> with
> your projects!
> I have not spent much time in the DTSS lately as I've been fascinated with
> a
> project I built that uses an Altera Cyclone II FPGA chip programmed to have
> an external 512KB RAM chip, a Z80 microprocessor running the CP/M-80
> Operating System with 128MB total of online storage split up into 16 - 8MB
> virtual hard drives labeled Drive A: - P: on an SD Memory Card! It also
> has
> two serial ports, a VGA port and a PS/2 port for a keyboard. After
> CP/M-80,
> utilities, programming languages, applications, etc. are fully loaded on to
> the virtual hard drives via the serial link, I have a complete
> microcomputer
> system which I can hold in the palm of my hand. Then to use this little
> fully operational microcomputer, all I need to do is hook up a VGA monitor
> and a PS/2 Keyboard and I'm off and running! So, yes, you could say I'm a
> bit distracted. :)
> I personally have not come up with a project yet for the DTSS so I will
> have
> to brain storm a bit. Hummm... In the meantime, keep up the great work!
> :D
>
> Kip Koon
> computerdoc at sc.rr.com
> http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon
> http://computerpcdoc.com/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Coco [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Campbell
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 4:30 PM
> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCoFEST - Dart Time Sharing System Contest
>
> Hi Kip,
>
> I decided to try a simple test program first, and found that I got
> unexpected results. I would like to know if the following is normal with
> the
> DTSS system, or if I am misunderstanding something. What follows is my
> documentation of the session.
>
> Actually it was two sessions, because I did not type SYSTEM BASIC before I
> performed this first, so afterward, I quit the session, started over and
> typed SYSTEM BASIC before I began writing the code. I found that the system
> defaults to SYSTEM BASIC because I got the exact same results the second
> time.
>
> I started by typing NEW PGRM to begin a new program. Then I entered the
> code
> as you see it below. I saved the program by typing SAVE PGRM. The file
> named
> PGRM showed up in the folder. Loading it into TextPad (my editor of
> choice) showed it to be a normal text file, as were the other files. Then I
> quit the session and started fresh to be sure nothing was lingering from
> the
> editing session.
>
> If I type OLD PGRM*** I get an error that the program is not saved.
> If I type OLD PGRM it loads, and typing LIST produces the listing.
>
> 10 LET X = 1
> 20 LET Y = 10
> 30 FOR Z = X TO Y
> 40 PRINT Z, Z-X; Z-Y
> 50 PRINT Z, Z+X; Z+Y
> 60 NEXT Z
> 70 END
>
> If I type RUN I get the expected output.
>
> 1 0 -9
> 1 2 11
> 2 1 -8
> 2 3 12
> 3 2 -7
> 3 4 13
> 4 3 -6
> 4 5 14
> 5 4 -5
> 5 6 15
> 6 5 -4
> 6 7 16
> 7 6 -3
> 7 8 17
> 8 7 -2
> 8 9 18
> 9 8 -1
> 9 10 19
> 10 9 0
> 10 11 20
>
> If I type TEST, I get the following ten times.
>
> ILLEGAL NUMBER IN
> 0
>
> I do not know what to think. Why an error in a non-existent line? And, why
> ten times? Is it a run-time error, once for each iteration of the FOR/NEXT
> loop?
>
> Wayne
>
> On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Kip Koon <computerdoc at sc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Wayne!
> > Yes, the BASIC program will need to run in the simulator. There is a
> > save command that stores your program with a six character filename on
> > your computer as well as a load command to retrieve it again so all
> > the development can be done in the DTSS simulator. This will give you
> > a more realistic feel for the programming environment of the actual
> > DTSS. For those that have not tried the DTSS simulator yet, the
> > yellow teletype paper is also simulated. I thought that was a nice
> > touch also. Anyhow, I'll let you read the manual for the DTSS and
> > find out about everything else. Take care my friend.
> >
> > Kip Koon
> > computerdoc at sc.rr.com
> > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon
> > http://computerpcdoc.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Coco [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
> > Campbell
> > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:53 PM
> > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCoFEST - Dart Time Sharing System Contest
> >
> > Hi Kip,
> >
> > OK, I need to get this straight. The program is required to run in the
> > emulator? Or is it just a BASIC program using only the statements and
> > functions that the original included?
> >
> > I read about the INPUT statement being added later (v. 2 I suppose),
> > and the emulator including it anyway. I would rather make use of the
> > READ and DATA statements anyway, as it would feel more like the first
> > version, and would be more reminiscent of those times when data had to
> > be hard-coded, or input in some other manner.
> >
> > I will see what I can do. To be honest, I do not expect to win any
> > awards for anything I produce, but I do think doing this would allow
> > me to experience the original BASIC in a way I never have before.
> >
> > Thanks again for this effort, Kip. It is worth doing just for the
> > experience.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Kip Koon <computerdoc at sc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Wayne!
> > > You are very welcome. I'm so happy that you have finally realized a
> > > dream you thought would never happen! I wonder how many other
> > > people out there in classic/retro computer land have similar
> aspirations.
> > > I guess I need to specify that you do NOT need to use ALL the
> > > statements or functions, just the ones you feel lead or desire to use.
> > > Any combination of statements and/or functions is just fine. Let
> > > your imagination be the limit! Join in if you like. It will be fun!
> > > As a side note, though this simulator does have the INPUT statement,
> > > the original/first version of the BASIC Compiler had no INPUT
> > > statement
> > at
> > all.
> > > Any data needed by the students' program had to be included in DATA
> > > statements and read into the program for processing with the READ
> > > statement much like Coco BASIC programs of today (and yesteryear for
> > > that matter) include machine language programs to be POKEd into ram
> > > and run during the execution of the BASIC program.
> > > Thanks for letting me know your situation so I had the opportunity
> > > to include ALL BASIC Programmers no matter what their level of
> expertise.
> > > One of the points of this contest is to have fun doing it in
> > > addition to see what all we can do with a maximum of 15 statements
> > > and 10
> > functions!
> > > Everyone is invited! Thanks again Wayne! Take care my friends.
> > >
> > > Kip Koon
> > > computerdoc at sc.rr.com
> > > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon
> > > http://computerpcdoc.com/
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Coco [mailto:coco-bounces at maltedmedia.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
> > > Campbell
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 5:35 PM
> > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts
> > > Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCoFEST - Dart Time Sharing System Contest
> > >
> > > This is the first time I've ever seen the original BASIC language. I
> > > had given up hope of ever getting to see it decades ago. I am
> > > looking at it now.
> > > As to whether or not I will try to place an entry depends. I have
> > > never taken trig and have never used the trig functions in any of
> > > the BASIC languages I have ever used. I know absolutely nothing
> > > about them. This would make any attempt I make a guessing game, and
> > > would probably result in ugly code. If the idea is to use all 15
> > > statements and all 10 functions, then I think I should refrain from the
> attempt.
> > >
> > > That said, I do appreciate finally being able to see and study the
> > > original original BASIC as developed at Dartmouth. Thanks Kip! :)
> > >
> > > Wayne
> > >
> > > On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 2:18 AM, Kip Koon <computerdoc at sc.rr.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Basic Language Enthusiasts!
> > > >
> > > > During the August Meeting of the Glenside Color Computer Club, I
> > > > suggested that the club present/demo the Dartmouth Time Sharing
> > > > System Simulator during the CoCoFEST Back To Basics Conference in
> > > > 2015. As some of you probably know, two computer programmers who
> > > > held PHDs in Computer Science invented the Basic All-purpose
> > > > Symbol Instruction Code (BASIC) programming language at Dartmouth
> > > > College on a GE-235 Mini-frame computer system and was first
> > > > brought online one evening in May 1964. DTSS is a simulator
> > > > written by one of those creators of BASIC to simulate the actual
> > > > environment the students at Dartmouth College used to get their
> > > > coursework calculations done without having to study to become
> > > > computer programmers - hence the name of the language.
> > > >
> > > > I also suggested during the Glenside Color Computer Club meeting
> > > > that maybe we could hold a contest to see what kind of variety of
> > > > BASIC programs could be created using only the 15 statements and
> > > > 10 functions provided by this very early version of BASIC which
> > > > runs on this DTSS Simulator. Everyone at that meeting were very
> > > > interested in this idea, so I'm putting out an Official ALL-CALL
> > > > to EVERYONE in the Color Computer Community World Wide to
> > > > participate in this contest even if you cannot attend. Maybe
> > > > everyone's programs will be able to be collected together in some
> > > > form and shared at the CoCoFEST and be
> > > available for download from someone's web site.
> > > >
> > > > The simulator and all available information, manuals, etc. is
> > > > available on the DTSS site at the link below. If you are
> > > > interested in participating in this contest or just want to see
> > > > and experience the environment the Creators of the Basic Language
> > > > programmed on and the students at Dartmouth College had to use, go
> > > > download this simulator from the following web page. Also at the
> > > > bottom of the page, some of the ACTUAL Assembly Language Source
> > > > Code that ran on the
> > > > GE-235 computer for the BASIC Compiler has been preserved!
> > > > Much of the mnemonics for the GE-235 computer look VERY SIMILAR to
> > > > 6809 Mnemonics! It was so cool to be able to see this source code
> > > > for what may very well be one of the most popular programming
> > > > languages ever
> > > created!
> > > >
> > > > Link to the DTSS Simulator Web Page.
> > > > http://dtss.dartmouth.edu/#download
> > > >
> > > > These are the links for the software itself. DTSS Simulator
> > > > software for [Windows] <http://dtss.dartmouth.edu/DTSS-Win.zip>
> > > > and [Macintosh] <http://dtss.dartmouth.edu/DTSS-Mac.sit> .
> > > >
> > > > It is my hope that everyone who enjoys our beloved Cocos will at
> > > > least consider this proposal and at some level participate in it.
> > > > This could turn out to be quite an interesting experience for us
> > > > all! Take care my friends.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kip Koon
> > > >
> > > > <mailto:computerdoc at sc.rr.com> computerdoc at sc.rr.com
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon>
> > > > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon
> > > >
> > > > <http://computerpcdoc.com/> http://computerpcdoc.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Coco mailing list
> > > > Coco at maltedmedia.com
> > > > http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Wayne
> > >
> > > The Structure of I-Code
> > > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/The_Structure_of_I-Code
> > >
> > > decode
> > > http://cococoding.com/wayne/
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Wayne
> >
> > The Structure of I-Code
> > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/The_Structure_of_I-Code
> >
> > decode
> > http://cococoding.com/wayne/
> >
> > --
> > Coco mailing list
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Wayne
>
> The Structure of I-Code
> http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/The_Structure_of_I-Code
>
> decode
> http://cococoding.com/wayne/
>
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--
Wayne
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