[Coco] How many CoCos made, compare to C64

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2011 01:38:59 PM Frank Swygert did opine:

> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:29:40 -0800
> From: Timothy Keith<timothy.g.keith at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Coco] Coco Digest, Vol 104, Issue 33
> 
> We've discussed this before -- I don't recall the estimated number of
> CoCos (all models total), but think it was around a million. Maybe that
> was a million CC3s though... if that's the case there could have been
> two million CoCos made counting all models. Include Brazillian and a
> couple other South American, at least one European (I think) and a
> Korean clones and there likely was closer to two million made, but
> nothing like the numbers of the C64. The CoCo was made to more or less
> compete with the C64, but marketing was very different. It wasn't
> marketed as THE computer for a family, it was marketed as a stepping
> stone to a more powerful (and expensive/profitable) computer. That's
> one reason Tandy never really pushed it. They could have, and sold
> more, but it would have cut into sales of their low end PC line, which
> they made more money on. Once you put a complete CoCo3 system together
> with monitor, multi-pak and a couple disc drives you were very close to
> the price of a Tand y 1000 MX/SX, and they had a small hard drive too.
> In many respects the CoCo was just as much computer for the money, but
> there just wasn't enough profit in selling them, especially in the late
> 80s when the "home computer" market collapsed. I think the CoCo3 was
> versatile enough that Tandy could have continued selling it as an
> experimenter's/beginner's machine, but the numbers couldn't be kept up
> at the prices they had to charge. The only way to keep it going would
> have been to go to way more integration to lower costs, but I don't
> think the market of the time would support it. Tandy would have had to
> go into the easily programmable controller business to support sales,
> not just consumer products. Many companies did buy CoCos to use as
> inexpensive controllers, but they bought the consumer products (or just
> populated boards from the Tandy parts division) and modded them as
> needed. More integration would also mean a lot fewer hacks/mods later.
> The integrated GIME chip has stal led further video development as it
> is.
> 
> A lot of the mods made for the C64 HAVE been made for the CoCo. There
> simply isn't much use for some of them. Part of the "problem" is the
> much smaller user base. The CoCo community has things like Drivewire
> and CoCoNet to use a PC as a drive server (and other things). Hooking
> up to a USB peripheral is relatively easy, writing drivers/software to
> support a USB device is a different story. The C-64 USB device is
> simply a drive replacement -- it won't support printers or anything
> else, just a thumb drive. Then a special version of C64 BASIC is needed
> to use it, so you can't use a lot of software with it. "We" already
> have CF and SD card readers available for about the same cost as the
> USB drive -- no point. USB printers are generally "dumb" devices that
> count on the PC processor and driver to make them work. That's way too
> much load for a CoCo! You might be able to make printing a two step
> process -- save the formatted file (not just ASCII text) with a word
> processor then run a program that would be just a printer driver to
> pull the file in and send it to the printer. Not very convenient, but I
> suppose it would work, but only for a few printers (I'd target
> HP/compatible inkjets and lasers).

As I did.  When I'm working on a program, the assembly output listings, 
once the width is set to save the comments too, are a very valuable 
resource when 2+2=17 for some odd reason.  Until DW came along and stole 
the bit banger, I was listing the saved output to /p, which went through a 
usb-ser adapter and was caught by a script on this machine, which when the 
listing was completed, sent through the mostly CUPS derived chain of progs 
to rasterize that text, and then sent back down that same cable to a 
Brother laser printer on the top shelf of the coco3's desk.  Sure there is 
a bit of rendering time, but that is moot when once the printer fires up, 
paper slides out of it at about 3 secs a page. 22ppm its rated at.

I have been intermittently fiddling with those scripts, and now have it 
working with drivewire4 like Ivory Snow, 99.44% of the time.  It is even 
faster now too.  Interested parties just ask.

> A lot of projects just aren't
> practical, or are reinventing the wheel for no othere reason than to
> see if it can be done. Great for experimenting/learning, not
> necessarily for a product that might have a handful of buyers, and
> especially not something that competes (even indirectly) with an
> existing product. There needs to be a certain number sold to make
> something worth the time and effort even to create a DIY circuit board.
> 
> PCs are just too cheap now! Buy a P4 and run an emulator. That doesn't
> help the hardware side, but does leave the software side wide open for
> improvement. You are right about one thing -- the CoCo is much easier
> to program and develop hardware for than the C64. CoCo BASIC is more
> powerful (except for sound -- the C64 has the CoCo beat there!) and
> easier to work with. The hardware is fully documented and rather easy
> to work with, depending on just what you're doing. The only hardware
> drawback is that the cartridge port isn't buffered, so you can blow out
> the 6809 processor. The 6809 is relatively cheap though, so socketing
> the MB and buying a few spares is a viable solution if you intend to
> work with the cartridge port a lot. There's a lot you can do with the
> joystick, bit banger, and even cassette port though.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------
> 
> > Welcome "back" Tim! I'm no longer using a CoCo, but still have a
> > couple and keep up with the list. You might want to start by
> > dwonloading "Tandy's little Wonder" from the site archives
> > (ftp://maltedmedia.com/coco/MAGAZINES/Tandy's  Little
> > Wonder/Cocobook-TLW2.pdf).
> 
> I have read that were were between 20 and 30 million Commodore 64s
> manufactured.   How many Cocos were made ?  I also read that the
> original Coco was very
> similar to the 6809 reference implementation board that Motorola
> created for evaluation by OEMs.  Tandy did not get as creative with
> the Coco as they could have, which I think means that the Coco doesn't
> have as many custom ASICs as the C64. The Coco is a pretty clean
> design.  That there are millions more C-64s built than Cocos, is
> probably why there seems to be more cool Commodore projects.  The
> stock C-64 had better sound and graphics than the original Coco, but I
> think the Coco hardware hackers could probably go a little further
> than the C-64. Back in the day, the 1541 disk drive was not very good,
> the Coco had a more standard drive, but none of that matters much now.
>   If you haven't done so, Google Commodore 64 hardware projects.
> They're still pretty actively updating their simple 6502 box.  I think
> most of what has been done for the C-64 could be done for the Coco.
> In one Commodore blog it is claimed that USB support was added in a
> couple weeks.  I have no idea how these mods are done, or what value
> these mods really add to the C-64, but its fun to read of the ongoing
> enthusiasm for the classic 8-bit home system.  It helps that there are
> a gazillion C64s out there.  I'm not a hardware person, but I'd like
> to learn a little more.  I think that in a few years thousands of
> iPhones will be resting in the back of desk drawers, maybe they'll
> still be cool, but likely not used. Its got to be easier to mod the
> Coco than the new stuff.  One web site claims to be powered by a
> Commodore 64.  No doubt that HTTP is simple, especially when the
> content is static. There is a decade old Ethernet cartridge project
> for the C-64 that supports connecting to the Internet. Does similar
> hardware and TCP/IP stack exist for the Coco?   Its fun hobby stuff,
> some of the C64 projects are described as if it is rather simple.


Cheers, Gene
-- 
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My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>
* m2 stares at the monitor... it looks like a hamburger...
<Knghtbrd> m2 - that's a bad sign