[Coco] CoCo and SATA/USB drives.

Fri May 26 01:21:33 EDT 2006

I also meant to add that we could use Linux to access current USB based
Floppies and HDDs

-Jim

On 5/25/06, Jim Cox <jimcox at miba51.com> wrote:
>
> I wanted to jump back into this and make a few comments.
> I need to keep it brief since I am in the middle of
> cleaning out my email accounts before I have them blown
> out and rebuilt due to a bug in my hosting service email
> program.
>
> I had several ideas, but I am only going to suggest the
> simplest, and the is to use a Linux box to handle the
> Floppies and HDDs (PATA or SATA) and then using Driveware
> Server or something similar to communicate to the CoCo.
> Actually I think it would be nice to have a CoCoLinux
> that would be taylored to us CoCo users.  One thought I'd
> like to add, is there a program or solution in Linux that
> can be used to read and write 360K 5.25" drives or 720K
> 3.5" drives?
>
> -Jim Cox
> http://www.miba51.com/
>
> On Thu, 25 May 2006 16:14:35 -0400
>   jdaggett at gate.net wrote:
> >First off I have a BSEE and have worked in the design of
> >consumer electronics
> > industry for 23yrs. Most consumers don't care how the
> >internal works. Just that when
> > the instruction state plug one of the cable to this and
> >the other end to that , turn on
> > and push a few buttons and everything works. Getting to
> >that point is not magic. It
> > often takes a team of between 10 and 30 engineers and
> >about a year to get the
> > software and hardware to that point. Also a boat load of
> >money.
> >
> > I have no problems with suggestions and ideas. It is
> >through the exchange of ideas
> > where one grows in knowledge. Also many things are
> >possible. Not all that is
> > possible is doable. There are many factors that make the
> >possible less doable. Also
> > ideas do proceed the technology that can make such an
> >idea a reality.
> >
> > Anyone that suggested an IDE interface couldn't be done
> >for a COCO didn't know
> > what they were talking about. Simple as that.
> >
> >Furthermore what Roy has done is not what I would call a
> >VDG (Video Display
> > Generator). Instead it would more properly be classified
> >as a video convertor. As
> > that is what it does. It converts one format to
> > another.
> >
> > Now as for USB. USB stands for Unified Serial Buss. It
> >is no great magic that your
> > camera interfaces to a serial port. The small USB
> >connector is a hardware solution
> > for a problem that USB encountered as speed reached
> >beyond the upper limits of
> > RS232 Serial protocol ( ~ 115K baud). The strength of
> >USB is not in the cable or the
> > connectors but i nthe software and the ICs that are
> >used. USB was an afterthought
> > for WIndoze 95. MS didn't fully support USB until the
> >release of W98/NT4.0.  So in
> > the PC world, USB has been fully accepted now between  8
> >and 10yrs.
> >
> > Now for USB and the COCO. Yes USB implementation for the
> >COCO can be very
> > difficult and consuming task. It also can be rather
> >simple. It depends on ho wmuch
> > of the USB spec do you plan to implement. For starters I
> >d oubt that there is a single
> > silicon solution that can implement the full USB 2.0
> >specification. Any attempt will
> > overwhelm the OS where it is RSBASIC or OS9. ALso
> >irregardless of 6809 or 6309
> > chip. Now let's talk speed.  Full USB 2.0 480 kbps is
> >only  doable with a limited
> > peripheral devices. Most likely just mice and keyboard
> >or other pointing device. This
> > is due to the data packet sent from the peripheral is
> >very short for these, the COCO
> > will never be able to take advantage of the full speed
> >as the host silicon will have to
> > wait for the COCO to clear the internal buffer, usually
> >a FIFO.
> >
> > Designing the hardware is not an issue with me. It is my
> >position that with the
> > current level of microprocessors used in the COCO,  only
> >a partial implementation
> > of the USB 2.0 protocol is even doable. The software
> >overhead to do more than a
> > key board, mice or even a printer is about the greatest
> >extent of what the COCO
> > can do. Even that would be a vast improvement over the
> >cumbersome keyboard
> > and mice setup of the COCO. Setting up a peripheral
> >processor and su fficient
> > hardware,  then more devices could be added.
> >
> > This all boils down to what the community wants and
> >really needs. There are now
> > more alternatives than the Cypress chip solution that
> >was mentioned about a year
> > ago. For myself, I can design some hardware and
> >software. That is not much a
> > problem. Supporting it is. Expanding beyond just simple
> >devices is a an issue. So
> > when someone states "you don't understand what it takes
> >to implement....". They
> > are not just refering to the technology, but also
> >support for sogtware and hardware
> > bug issues. Also for expansion of features and hardware.
> >Often that can be more
> > difficult than the original design.
> >
> > Yes there can be many thins that can be done with the
> >COCO. Most
> > implementations will come down to cost and time to
> >implement.
> >
> > james
> >
> >
> >
> > On 24 May 2006 at 9:12, James Hrubik wrote:
> >
> >> Well, first off, don't stop thinking. %^D
> >>
> >> Years ago I earned a number of brickbats on this list
> >>for suggesting
> >> an IDE adapter for the CoCo.  They said it couldn't be
> >>done.  Its was
> >> done.
> >>
> >> I suggested a VDG adapter for the CoCo.  They said it
> >>couldn't be
> >> done.  Roy proved them wrong.
> >>
> >> Five or six years ago I suggested a USB adapter for the
> >>CoCo.  "You
> >> don't understand the difficulty.  It can't be done" said
> >>they.  And
> >> they are right, I don't understand the difficulty.  I
> >>have no
> >> training whatever in electronic engineering.  I DO have,
> >>however, an
> >> old Kodak DC240 camera that I use daily for my work.  It
> >>has a Mac-
> >> type serial port, and connects directly with a Mac
> >>printer cable to
> >> old Macs.  It also came with a cable that has the Mac
> >>serial plug on
> >> one end, a USB plug on the other end, and a little
> >>"tootsie roll"
> >> that looks like an RF choke toward one end.  It plugs
> >>directly into
> >> my Pavillion and my iMac.  No adapter.  I use that cable
> >>every day.
> >> I don't understand the difficulty.  I don't even know
> >>where I would
> >> start to write a driver for such a thing.  But I DO know
> >>that my
> >> camera sends .jpgs every day down a cable that is serial
> >>at one end
> >> and USB at the other with no adapter.  And I DO know
> >>that my
> >> Pavillion running XP is too stupid to know the
> >>difference.
> >>
> >> So don't be discouraged.  Keep on thinking outside the
> >>box.  If we
> >> don't ask the stupid questions, we will never learn to
> >>defy gravity.
> >>
> >> On May 24, 2006, at 2:24 AM, Jim Cox wrote:
> >>
> >> > This got me thinking about the future of Floppies and
> >>Hard Drives
> >> > for the CoCo community.  With low cost USB External
> >>Enclosueres for
> >> > SATA drives becoming available and with USB floppy
> >>drives already
> >> > available, I think what the CoCo needs is a USB 2.0
> >>adapter that
> >> > can address both.  I wonder if it is possible to have
> >>this adapter
> >> > create a new drive type that will allow the CoCo to
> >>read 1.44M 3.5"
> >> > floppies.
> >> >
> >> > I'll follow up later when I have time, but I would
> >>like to know
> >> > what others think about the future of drives and how
> >>the changes
> >> > will affect the CoCo.
> >> >
> >> > -Jim Cox
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> -----Items below rated "R"; parental discretion
> >>advised----
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> "Brilliant minds, like productive gardens, flourish
> >>under the
> >> influence of bullshit."
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>   From the sayings of Grampa Jim, Copyright 2006.
> >> Unauthorized use of my stuff may cause senility.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> Coco at maltedmedia.com
> >> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
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