[Coco] CoCo Progression...

[Steve Batson]

Mark, All,

Understand, I'm not trying to stir things up, just trying to understand some 
things.

On the one hand, I hear that people don't want emulators because it's not 
"Real Metal" or the real thing or "It's not Vintage Computing"...on the 
other hand, I hear about people wanting to add USB and all this stuff that 
is not vintage computing technology. I stated in my first post that I 
understand people want to do that for the fun or challenge, so there is no 
need to go into that...I understand that just as any other hobby or area of 
interest someone may have. I wouldn't think of discouraging that or making 
fun of it.

Over the years people have repackaged thier CoCo's into PC Cases, installed 
enhanced keyboards, etc. I don't see how that can feel any more like the 
vintage coco than an emulator on a PC using the same keyboard.

I'd be just as intersted in seeing a new or extended hardware coco design as 
I would a good emulator (trademark, patent and copyright issues aside) but I 
tend to doubt that is ever going to happen. Once the CoCo hardware supply 
has dried up, then what? A motherboard can only handle so many trace cuts 
and soldering.

Technically, there is no reason a CoCo Emulator could not be designed to be 
100% compatible with the coco as powerful as today's computers are. And that 
is what I was really trying to get at. Once that is achieved, it would be so 
much easier to get parts for and add support for newer hardware. And, while 
I don't know why, if someone needed the feel of the chicklet keyboard (one 
of the first hacks I did to my coco was putting a real keyboard in it) or on 
old joystick, that would be much easier to interface then some of the other 
projects being worked on.

This is all just some food for thought...again, I wouldn't want to talk you 
out of your hacking any more then I would your coin collecting or other 
interests.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark McDougall" <msmcdoug at optushome.com.au>
To: "Steve Batson" <steve at bat-soft.com>; "CoCoList for Color Computer 
Enthusiasts" <coco at maltedmedia.com>
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Coco] CoCo Progression...


> Steve Batson wrote:
>
>> I can see if someone wants to do it for the fun of it or the 
>> challenge....but it really doesn't seem practical to connect these high 
>> speed devices to the CoCo from a usage standpoint.
>
> I disagree here Steve. For example, there's no way the CoCo could push 
> data in/out of an ethernet card at 10Mbps, but that's not the point - the 
> point is to have the network *capability*. So although you're "wasting" 
> 90% of the bandwidth, it's *not* a pointless exercise as you suggest, and 
> I don't see how that "diminishes the value" of the e/net card?!?
>
> Besides, have you tried recently to buy a 2GB hard-drive? There's plenty 
> of embedded systems out there utilising 5% of their hard-disk space 
> because you simply can't buy anything less than 10GB now. Likewise with 
> the network card - if you want to trickle IP packets to a CoCo at a few 
> hundred Kbps you have no choice but to use a 10/100Mbps e/net card!
>
>> I know there are emulators out there, Jeff Vavasour's is pretty decent 
>> along with some others. I also know people have talked about projects to
>>  create a next generation CoCo (I don't know what happened to that). My 
>> question is, wouldn't it make more sense to design emulators that will be
>> 99.9% compatible (nothing's perfect) with the real thing and allow 
>> plug-in code to enhance/extend the CoCo features and interface to the PC
>>  hardware.
>
> As others have pointed out in this thread, emus are great and are 
> certainly capable of reproducing 95% of the experience - but for people 
> who grew up with a CoCo you just can't emulate the experience of powering 
> up that same little silver box you used 15 years ago, or typing on the 
> chiclet keyboard or using a tandy joystick. My father's first Model I 
> still sits in my garage - I have no idea whether or not it works, but I'll 
> never throw it away and hope to someday have the room to set it up and (if 
> need be) lovingly restore it. But I still fire up Robot Attack 
> occasionally on the emus.
>
> As for your comments about obsolete components, I agree. It's a very real 
> problem with arcade games right now - there are components which you 
> simply can't buy any more. I'd love to do a CoCo implementation in 
> hardware (I've done a simple TRS-80 Model III already) - but is this any 
> more "real" than an emulator on a PC? Interesting question that I won't 
> attempt to go into right now. But the idea of a portable CoCo the size of 
> a PDA is pretty cool... then I think to myself, how is that different to a 
> PDA running a CoCo emulator (and they're certainly powerful enough to do 
> that now)?
>
> I think it's great that people love to tinker with the old stuff, and make 
> all manner of emulations and retro-fitting new peripherals to the old 
> machines. We do it for nostalgia, for fun and to learn things! The best 
> thing is - it doesn't *have* to make sense!
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> |              Mark McDougall                | "Electrical Engineers do it
> | <http://members.optushome.com.au/msmcdoug> |   with less resistance!"
>