[Coco] Re: UseNet *"Bit.Listserv.CoCo"* NewsGroup elimination

[Stephen H. Fischer]

Hi,

John E. Malmberg wrote:
> Stephen H. Fischer wrote:
>>
>> John E. Malmberg wrote:
>>
>>> That would be the folks at: http://newsadmin.com/bit/bit.html.
>>
>> Twelve minutes by car for me to visit in person.
>>
>>> As near as I can tell, no one wants to be the bad guy.  But there may be
>>>  automatic processes involved that can kick in with out prior notice.
>>
>> Why not stop any automatic processes and get an agreement to continue
the.
>> B.L.CoCo newsgroup.
>
> No reason.  Just needs someone to step up and try to do it.  Generally
> newsgroups and mailing lists have one or more active designated contacts
> or effective owners (not sure what is the correct term).  It sounds like
> you are volunteering to be one for the bit.listserv.coco.

Yes I have thought about this. Due to Princeton's policy I surely would not
qualify being way across on the other side of the USA. Being a Badger with
no connection at all with Princeton except for B.L.CoCo also makes me not
qualified. The conditions that Princeton would have to meet before I would
agree would include a statement by them as to the conditions that they would
require to continue hosting B.L.CoCo and the same help that other list
owners are provided with no possibility that we would ever have to hide in
the shadows and fear any contact with them. That position was bad for us and
bad for Princeton. I think that we made a series of bad judgments when we
were overwhelmed with SPAM. I myself did not help at the time. I was
concentrating on rejecting the SPAM using the same headers that I now know
could have been done by a real live list owner for all on the list very
easily.

With today's knowledge, I would have even gone to the point of suggesting to
a reporter that they ask the following question: Your Honor, what was your
part in CoCoGate, what did you know and when did you know it? And, were any
tape recording made.

No, I would not have. Only praise should be directed towards all those who
have helped and sustained B.L.CoCo in the past. The Doom and Gloom started
when I posted the first draft of a thank you to the list owner. Never sent
anywhere but to our list

In my research I have determined that *no* Listserver list anywhere should
be without a owner at any time. Look how we were hurt and Princeton was
hurt.

As to newsgroups, yes to your next statement. With the return of ..., that
may not be a good policy. There may not be any good policy.

> Many newsgroups run apparently totally on auto-pilot.
>
>> As the B.L.CoCo list was carried by Princeton long after having any
>> connection, I believe the part about not wanting to be the bad guy.
>>
>> Is there any good in holding the list until it is automatically
>> terminated? That is still a bad position.
>
> I do not know if they will automatically terminate the list.  They may
> hold it forever until a Princeton employee or student/student group
> agrees to sponsor it.  The deadlock is that Princeton is not likely to
> do anything to look for a sponsor on their own.

I agree. Are we going to do any looking? With the stated policy which we do
not meet, should we be looking?

>> Being good would be helping the continuation of the B.L.CoCo newsgroup.
>> Doing nothing when an automatic kill process is running is not good.
>
> Nothing in the publicly posted documents indicates that a list would be
> suspended and not terminated.  Not really sure what the difference is.
>
>> You stated that you were not the person that caused the list to be held.
>
> Correct.  I have had no communications with the Princeton.edu folks
> about the mailing list.
>
>> The contacts that you have had with People at Princeton have NOT been
>> communicated in a timely manner to interested persons like me on the CoCo
>> list.
>
> You presume that I have had multiple contacts with Princeton and what
> contact that I had directly was related to the coco mailing list.  It
> was not.

> Please do not look for conspiracies where there are none.

When I see large piles as often as I have lately, I start looking for the
Elephant.

Due to my own actions, with half of 1996 and all of 1997 being missing I do
not expect to find the Elephant and really do not believe that there is one.

If I continue with my projects as planned, the Elephant will be seen even if
I am not looking for it.

>> You also have a great deal of knowledge about the "Bit" groups and their
>> rules. Rules that have come over to me as "Doom and Gloom" as quoted.
>
> The knowledge that I have is the result of about an hour's work with
> http://www.google.com to supplement the small amount of knowledge I had
> on usenet newsgroups.
>
> This search was triggered partly by some of your earlier postings.
>
>> Those rules May have gone out of effect and do not apply today.
>
> Only newsadmin.com knows.  From a google search of mailing lists that
> are gated to the bit.listserv.* hierarchy, there is precedence for lists
> that do not appear to be hosted by bitnet members.
>
>> I still cannot tell if the best plan is no plan and let what will be will
>> be.
>
> No one seems to know that.

Today, a change took place that makes the whole subject moot. Any via able
plan may include contacting newsadmin.com as they have B.L.CoCo on their web
page and thus have a vested interest in stopping the planned attack. They
may have contacts that will be very helpful. That is if they exist at all. I
got a new printer today at Fry's and never needed to go to the next store
which is close to newsadmin to see if the address is valid. Not found in
telephone book so far, their number is on their web page.

I will be watching what develops and assisting if  I can. A letter hand
delivered now would be about the attack. I see no point in continuing until
the threat is clearly defused.


>> Lots of quoting rules and no actions to save the UseNet
>> *"Bit.Listserv.CoCo"* NewsGroup. Is that what is being offered?
>
> What is being offered is pointing out where to make the contacts about
> the operation of the newsgroup.  newsadmin.com is apparently the only
> ones controlling the bit.listserv.coco.
>
> I do not know the what the results of such contacts would be.  The
> people hosting the mailing lists seem to be the ones that have the least
> flexibilty on what they can do.

That is reasonable, mailing lists use their own resources.

Newsgroups use others resources. Resources of the ISP or paid news sources.

> It appears that newsadmin.com may do what ever they want.
>
> They may agree to let the bit.listserv.coco continue.
>
> They may agree to let you be the contact / "owner", which would give you
> the right to cancel any spam that shows up.
>
> They may request that Princeton agree first to the transfer of control
> from the suspended COCO list to you.
>
> http://www.google.com may find a similar list with a current sponsor,
> and that sponsor may also agree to sponsor the coco list.  It may
> involve moving the COCO list to another bitserv host.

Moving the mailing list to another sponsor would be of little value. Persons
wishing the mailing list to go back to what it was without SPAM insist that
the list address must remain the same.

A better place to look for a sponsor would be the other public lists hosted
by Princeton.

Would anyone like to join: Frame-Off Automobile Restoration (9 subscribers)
?

> I have not got the time to pursue this.
>
> Now I have no objections if you succeed in keeping bit.listserv.coco
> running, or even if you can find another sponsor for the COCO list.
> And I have no objections if you become the designated contact for
> bit.listserv.coco issues.
>
> And of course, I do not represent anyone else on this mailing list or
> forum.
>
> -John
> wb8tyw at qsl.net
> Personal Opinion Only

Stephen H. Fischer <sfischer1 at mindspring.com>